KhunHeineken

Here's an interesting article. This account seems to say the changes are already through. The changes may already have been passed. https://hlb.com.au/tax-residency-changes-for-individuals/ Quote: "Therefore, the Government in the 2020-2021 Federal Budget announced that it will replace the current individual tax residency rules with new primary and secondary tests to determine one’s tax residency. The primarily test is the 183-day test, that is, if a person who is physically present in Australia for a period of 183 days or more in any income year, this person will be considered as a resident for Australian tax purposes."

That would be their savings they are spending, nothing the government can do about that. The pension on the other hand, that's a different story. The government controls that money.

Just came across this in another thread. It's not Aussie related, but just goes to show the contempt another government has for its pensioners living abroad. Why would the Australian government think any differently?

I'm against the 183 day rule because it effects me. I will have some big decisions to make if / when it comes in. In my opinion, it will come in. Will pensions going overseas be exempt, or still classed as "income" derived in Australia, who knows? The headline was to go the opposite way to the other member's headline that was suggesting there would be a backlash against taxing overseas pensions. Do you think it would be a hard sell to the Australian public if the government showed tax payer dollars supporting a foreign country's economy, and not the Australian economy? I think it was gain support, not backlash. As posted, there are jealous, patriotic, and racist people in the Australian population. Once again, I think the 183 day rule will come in. Whether or not pensions will come under the rule, we'll have to wait and see, but there's nothing wrong with preparing for it.

That comment was directed at the member who thinks the Aussie tax payer would be outraged by the taxing of pensions being sent overseas. I would say there would be more support for taxing overseas pensions than outrage.

Again, have you read the proposed changes? Please tell me why you think they will not come in, and why you think the pension (income) will be exempt? What about those receiving a part pension because they have a rental property, savings, shares, and the like, back in Australia? Will that income be exempt also? I didn't make up the proposed changes. I, and other members, have posted several links to them, yet you only address my opinions on the changes, not the changes themselves. I have no problem listening to your argument, but I am not making it up and I am not scare mongering. What will your comment be if the legislation is passed? No. I was using the HECS debt as a restriction of travel leaving Australia as a example. What I am talking about is the expat living in Thailand with income generated in Australia who is now racking up a non resident tax bill. They can't stop him leaving Australia because he's already left. What they can do is not issue him a new passport in the Embassy until the ATO has taken the flag off his renewal. Point being, the ATO isn't going to miss out just because the debtor is overseas. We are talking about The Australian Tax Office, not American Express. How does a creditor get a judgement when a summons can't even be served because the debtor is outside of the country? You saw with the HECS debt article, they used the Centerlink debt to restrict travel. That's immigration at an airport. Pretty easy to put the same information on the Embassy data base. You are correct, there is nothing in the proposed legislation about passports, but I somehow can't see the Australian government just giving a free pass to non residents because they are outside of Australian. This is an interesting point though, because once someone walks into the Australian Embassy, that is as good as being on Australian soil. Interesting, but off topic. Point being, the days of your geographical location relieving you of your debt to the Australian government are coming to an end, as seen with the HECS debt article. They are already restricting travel over debt. Passport renewal for someone already outside of Australia would be a logical step, but this is my opinion, and I have no link to support it.

I hope it never happens, but proposed changes have been put forward. Who in government is going to vote against them when they are such a good money maker and lose no votes? Did you go to the Embassy in Bangkok and vote in the last election? Huh? You say they can't reduce the pension by 30% but can tax the pension accordingly, which for a non resident for taxation purposes, is around 30%. Haven't you just agreed with the point I am making? Have you read the proposed changes? Why do you think they will not come in? Why do you think expat pensions will be exempt? What about those expats that rent out a house or have some supplementary income from shares and the like? All of that will be taxed at non resident rates. They will not be portrayed as vulnerable. They will be portrayed as having a better lifestyle on the Aussie tax payers money. What about the headline, "Aussie pensioners living the high life in Thailand on your tax payer dollars." Nothing like a bit jealousy to gain support for taxing overseas pensions. What about the headline, "Aussie tax payers supporting foreign economies." Should gain a bit of patriotism and racism in support for the changes. If you think the Australian government, or the tax payers in Australia, care about expat pensioners living abroad, then it's you who has your in the sand.

As posted before, if the pension is deemed to be an "income" and the pensioner is outside of Australia for more than 183 days in a calendar / financial year, then it will most likely be taxed at non resident rates, being around 30% from dollar number one, no tax free threshold. Considering it's the Australian government who pays the pension, they will just pay around 30% less a fortnight. They motivation for this law is to either save the government 30% on pensions being send abroad, or force the pensioners home and have their money benefiting the Australian economy, not a foreign country's economy. Something I am sure tax payers in Australia would cheer about. I don't see the argument of a voter backlash or gift to Labor. Firstly, these proposed changes will most likely be passed post election. I wouldn't expect to to have to deal with them until 2022. Secondly, how many expats go to the Embassies in various capital cities around the world and vote come election time? I know I never have. No votes lost from the people it effects the most.

Let's hope never.

I reposted that link of yours to another member who ask for a link about it. Your link was only a few posts up. He hadn't read the thread because there have been several links setting out the proposed changes. Accounting and law firms have been given notice. I would say after the election the process of passing it through will start, and with a press of a button some data bases will talk to each other and anyone submitting tax returns in Australia, who are also outside of Australia for 183 days, will be getting a letter next year, and pensioners outside Australia for more than 183 days will probably be informed of a cut in their pension. I hope I am wrong about the way I think it will go, but if you follow the money, these changes are sure to come in.

I posted a link to an article about people being stopped at the airport over their HECS debt. That student loan is obviously connected to your name and date of birth, therefore your passport also. You can be making money in Australia, not submitting tax returns, racking up a huge bill to the ATO, and they can't serve papers on you because you are in Thailand somewhere. However, your passport expires one day, and you have to go to the Australian government for a new one. Given what they have done for HECS debts, how easy would it be for them to say, "Sorry Sir, you have to contact the ATO and make arrangements for payment before we can give you another passport." Instead of chasing you for your non resident tax bill, they just wait for you to come to them. I am not fear mongering. Why do you think they are proposing the 183 day rule? They can get their hands on big money, and easily, and lose no votes in the process. How do you serve a Court order on someone who is not in Australia? See the passport connection now? It's nothing new. They did it with speeding fines years ago. Don't pay your fines, we cancel your license. No license, no insurance. Don't pay a non resident tax bill, we don't issue a new passport until you do.

Wishing you full recovery. Medicare could be the elephant in the room. If / when these rules come in, can someone who has been outside of Australia for more than 183 days, who is deemed a non resident for taxation purposes, just fly back in and go straight into medical care / treatment? I've heard from other Aussie expats that if you are outside of Australia for something like 3 or 5 years, you drop off the Medicare system and have to wait for a qualifying period. Can anyone confirm this? It would be in the government's interest to lower the time frame.

The Australian government couldn't care less about you. They care only about the money. If / when these changes are passed, it's a win win for them. If you stay in Thailand, they save around 30% in pension payments. If you move back to Australia, your pension money is circulating in the Australian economy. This is just for pensioners, but I think the changes are really targeting expats that are generating an income in Australia through rental properties, shares, businesses, for example, and living overseas in places like Thailand. We, and I am one of them, have been able to fly under the radar for a long time. The 183 day rule is black and white. No radar to fly under. That's why I think this law will pass, and it loses no votes because expats don't make their way to the Embassy every election day. The big money is not in the pensioners, but I think they will be scooped up in the net.

The Australian government thanks you for your 30%. ????

Caravan park is another cheap option. The government knows it either saves 30% of pension payments to those living overseas, or this brings many of them back for at least 6 months of the year, and all their pension money is circulating in the Australian economy where it creates employment, which creates more income tax, not to mention GST on purchases by the pensioner, fuel taxes etc. It's a win win for the government, and they couldn't care less about the pensioner.

This is the decision many may soon be facing. I would think a downgrade of lifestyle in Thailand would still be an upgrade on lifestyle in Australia, but the cost of living in Thailand is increasing as well. Perhaps for some the answer maybe a move to a cheaper country like Cambodia.

I believe car rego to be free for pensioners in NSW. That's rego, not the green slip insurance. Will you continue to live in Noosa after the next rent increase?

As I have said in several posts, that test could be changing. Proposed changes have been put forward, and like any other change a government passes, it's designed to make them more money, not less money. There are several links to the changes in the last few pages. I have just reposted one of the links for the benefit of another member. It puts the 183 days inside or outside of Australia as the primary test. That's pretty black and white and easy for the government to prove because it's linked to immigration's data base. The only question is will the Australian pension be exempt, or will it be deemed "income" and taxed at non resident rates.

Selling property and shares, and moving the proceeds offshore is one option for those generating an income in Australia. If a pension is deemed to be an income, and in all likelihood it will be, then pensioners are looking at around a 30% hit, which may see them have to spend 6 months a year in Australia, move back to Australia completely, or downgrade their lifestyle here.

If you have read the last few pages of the thread, you would see a few members, including myself, have posted different links to the proposed changes. Here's a link posted by member tlcwaterfall just a few posts back. https://www.holdingredlich.com/current-issues-and-changes-to-individual-tax-residency-rules In my opinion, it's this part that may see a lot of expats, including pensioners, scooped up. "The proposed stage one test (being the primary test) is based on physical presence in Australia and will be a ‘bright line test’ – that is, a person who is physically present in Australia for 183 days or more in any income year will be an Australian tax resident." The way it reads to me is, if you are outside of Australia for more than 183 days, you will then be deemed a non resident for taxation purposes.

That may soon be changing so a very simple question: "Have you been outside of Australia for 183 day in the last calendar / financial year?" If yes, you are a non resident. If no, you are a resident.

Most of the cost of registration is the green slip, which is the insurance. Have a car accident in Oz and end up in a wheel chair, everything covered, even modifications to your house with ramps. What happens if you end up in a wheel chair from a car accident in Thailand?

Most of that $50 was supposed to go to health care, yet the hospital waiting lists for elective surgery are getting longer. https://www.aihw.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/2021/january-1/public-hospitals-worked-to-clear-elective-surgery#:~:text=There were 893%2C000 patients added,number added in 2018–19. Where's the smoker's money going?

The guy in Port Hedland was within Australia. Expats have to front up for a new passport at least every 10 years, unless they go full overstay and off the grid, which is not recommended. I remember them stopping those with HECS debt a few years ago. I believe it's the same with child support. Easy to add tax debt to the list, but with pensioners, they will just pay around 30% less a fortnight. https://www.smh.com.au/money/tax/what-you-need-to-know-about-your-student-debt-before-heading-overseas-20180430-p4zcf7.html

I posted in another thread that this all may be changing soon. They are proposing changes to the complex criteria that one has to meet to be deemed either a resident or non resident for taxation purposes for Australia. Domicile, family ties, community ties, utility bills, intention of returning and so on may soon be replaced with, "Have you been outside of Australia for more than 183 days in the last calendar / financial year?" Answer no, you are fine. Answer yes, here's your non resident tax bill, from dollar number one, no tax free threshold. There will be no skirting around the 183 days as it will be linked to immigration's data base. It's going to be financially beneficial for the Australian government to do this, and given the majority of expats don't make their way to an Australian Embassy at election time, no votes are lost. There's discussion whether this change will affect expats on a pension. It may come down to the legal definition of "income." Is the pension an income? If so, expat pensioners can expect around 30% less pension for being out of the country. If not, carry on as before. Australia is broke, and they will be chasing every dollar. The 183 day rule will net them a lot of money from wealthy individuals, but pensioners may just be caught up in the same net and face the same consequences.