jpinx

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Many claim that the leave voters knew exactly what they were doing but its not quite true. My son is 25 and like many of the younger generation has little interest in anything political. He and his wife voted to leave because her mother said so. It's my own fault really, like a good parent I always advised him to stay on good terms with the mother in law.

That rings very true.  So many young voters are totally bored with politicis, and who can blame them?  They only see argumentative, grasping politicians.  The disconnect is huge and is something else the education system needs to address.  Start by educating the current crop of idiots in charge.  So much of perceived education is actually just a very good memory.  IQ tests are  a classic example of how skewed the view of intelligence has become.  What was it Einstein said about the fish?

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

Good advice on the MiL Sandy

55 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I wasn't "blaming" the EU. I was stating that the EU can't help us with these problems, and we need to focus inward, rather than outward, for a while.

 

And if you think other countries don't have many of the same problems as us, you must be wearing some very tinted sunglasses on your travels around Europe. Try talking to any Polish people you might know about the problems of drug taking and anti-social behaviour by kids in Poland right down to pre-teen level. Spain has a huge drugs problem, with the associated crime. The Scandi countries are rife with hooliganism and gangsterism. I could go on.

There is one solution - make the parents responsible for the deeds of their kids.  If a kid commits some vandalism, get the parents to court and let them lose a lot of face and a bit of community service.  Courts are so PC they won't exact an effective penalty and even if they do and it is ignored - there is no serious followup.  The parents are a very large part of the problem, not instilling decent values, so let them be punished. 

This issue is not about money at all.  There are plenty of mal-adjusted public school attendees.  Back to Basics doesn't seem to have worked - it's been tried a few times but the basics are so badly tainted now it's going to need something more than that.  One of the greatest issues is the example given by the people that matter in society.   The conduct of the people who are supposed to be leading UK's society is nothing short of abysmal. 

Just now, SheungWan said:

Maybe just half a notch above happy-clappy.

That attitude is part of the problem.  You need "attitude re-adjustment"

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's not just the UK; USA also under performs.

 

Nothing to do with EU

 

More to do with our own, home grown, ideas

 

Thai education is much worse mind you.

 

Did you ever look at that Michael Moore documentary I was going on about? Finland seem to be doing well.

 

Education is absolutely key. Difficult to fix when there is such gross inequality though.

 

 

Education might well be key -- but the key is no use if there's no keyhole.  Family standards are what inspire parents to send their kids to school with a positive attitude.  Without that most fundamental foundation, a culture will not progress.

I just posted something about that..  just my take on it.  The thing that seems to be crippling UK's progress is social education and simple family standards..  When you look at the level of irresponsible behaviour in uk now it would make anyone's granny spin in her grave.  It's no better in USA, Thailand etc, but UK should and can be head and shoulders above where they are now.  Enough on that - most people recognise the issue, from their perspective, but meantime we need to turbo-charge the brexit team so that UK comes out with a good deal, happy neighbours  in Europe,  and a positive outlook for the future.

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

132 pages and 3,296 postings for this topic.

Maybe time to close topic and start an updated one?

Not at all - - there are so many threads on Brexit I stopped following the rest - I only see posting on them if it comes up in my "latest postings". 

20 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Having worked in a school in a poor area (although, thankfully not as a teacher!), I think I understand why so many under-privileged children continue in the same way.  Their parents(s) blame anyone/everyone else when their child behaves extremely badly (an under-statement) and schools find it almost impossible to get rid of the 'disruptive' children (another under-statement).

 

These appalling children are only following their parents' example in most cases and, lacking any discipline other than when the parent hits them because they've annoyed the parent.... they continue the same pattern .

 

Fortunately this true 'underclass' is a tiny minority as most parents want their children to do as well as possible.

 

Can't begin to number the 'stories' I have to support this POV.....

 

Entirely off topic though and, back on topic - we can only have an opinion as to how the UK will fare in negotiations with the EU.  At the moment, the EU is struggling with not only the loss of one of its few paying members - but other EU countries showing signs of going the same way, not to mention the precarious financial position of a few member countries.

Not offtopic at all -- it is a fundamental for the UK to sort out education, both social and academic.  Family standards in many places are really falling fast, producing the types of kids who do not take well to school, and schools have become so PC as to make teaching almost impossible.  Without education people become a burden on a society, not an asset.  Hopefully the UK generally will get it's priorities right and stop wasting money on tricks like the EU and funnel it into long-term, well thought out education schemes.  There is no quick fix. The parents must be sommitted to this as well. 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Something positive

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38957943?client=safari

 

Feeling brighter now?

That I can relate to.  I had the privilege of filming a double-headed steam train going from York to Auchterarder back in the 1980's.  What a magnificent thing.  As a kid we lived very close to the railways and I always remember the incredibly slow choo.........choo....... sound of the night good trains going up the incline,  and sticking your head out of the window always got you covered in smuts.    Happy days.....

Given the popularity of steam trains it is certainly something that could be promoted much more.  The West Highland Line has a steam train aimed at tourists, and it is great to see it wending it's way through the glens.   UK has magnificent attributes in the historic stations in lovely cities like York and would easily be able to boost UK's profile if they were used better.  Getting out of the EU is a great opportunity for UK to piggy-back the UK's international profile on the back of the general publicity about Brexit.  Certainly tourism is way up because of the cheaper pound and that is a good starting point.

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Here wo go again. It's groundhog day with some posters. Or is it called trolling?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors

 

"the worst is yet to come"

 

Yes.....for the EU. Not the UK. As confirmed by major business leaders such as Joe Kaeser, who put his money where his mouth is when announcing it.

It's groundhog day.  Same posters ask the same question multiple times and if there's a punctuation difference between your answers they will pounce on it like a vicious kitten.  I refer all repeat questions (that I recognise) back to the poster and tell them to do their own <deleted>' legwork.  Venn Diagrams <deleted>?  They'll be wanting a colouring-in book of maps of the EU next.   How about some NEW news.  What's the state of play on the court action supposedly going through dublin courts?  Even the UK press are struggling to come up with new news on brexit. 

18 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Here's some interesting "hard facts"..

.

• A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.

• Among private renters and people with mortgages, a small majority (55% and 54%) voted to remain; those who owned their homes outright voted to leave by 55% to 45%. Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to leave.

• A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.

• White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

• The AB social group (broadly speaking, professionals and managers) were the only social group among whom a majority voted to remain (57%). C1s divided fairly evenly; nearly two thirds of C2DEs (64%) voted to leave the EU.

More from here....  http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

 

The fruitgum analysis is a bit too fruity

It's very interesting that they do not make any analysis of the averaged education levels achieved across the time-span of the voters ages which were used in their analysis.

Degree results obtained by The Sunday Telegraph show six out of 10 students were handed either a first or an upper second in 2010, compared with just one in three graduates in 1970.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8235115/Dumbing-down-of-university-grades-revealed.html

...feed that into your analysis 

59 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

No need for 'euphemisms' - its easy enough to refer to a majority of the voters with whom you disagree as disadvantaged and poor (and more relevant IMO).  Edit - as per the article you quoted...

 

Here's some interesting "hard facts"..

.

• A majority of those working full-time or part-time voted to remain in the EU; most of those not working voted to leave. More than half of those retired on a private pension voted to leave, as did two thirds of those retired on a state pension.

• Among private renters and people with mortgages, a small majority (55% and 54%) voted to remain; those who owned their homes outright voted to leave by 55% to 45%. Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to leave.

• A majority (57%) of those with a university degree voted to remain, as did 64% of those with a higher degree and more than four in five (81%) of those still in full time education. Among those whose formal education ended at secondary school or earlier, a large majority voted to leave.

• White voters voted to leave the EU by 53% to 47%. Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain.

• The AB social group (broadly speaking, professionals and managers) were the only social group among whom a majority voted to remain (57%). C1s divided fairly evenly; nearly two thirds of C2DEs (64%) voted to leave the EU.

More from here....  http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

The fruitgum analysis is a bit too fruity

It's very interesting that they do not make any analysis of the averaged education levels achieved across the time-span of the voters ages which were used in their analysis.

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Ah yes, the "real world", that giveaway phrase that means "I'm patronising you"

Quoted out of context.  It's those intelligent numpties who are trying to patronise those they perceive as being of lesser education and capability.

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except you keep going on about the 'uneducated and numpties'.

 

If instead, you'd referred to the 'disadvantaged and poor' - then you would have been less likely to come across as arrogant and condescending.... the main reason you've had to put up with so much criticism.

Some people enjoy starting an argument in an empty room

No-one has explained away the correlation between older people not have the same standards of education, because standards have dropped, and incomers not being counted as "educated" because their particular levels are not recognised in UK.  If anyone can come up with some reasonable data on that and refer it to this so-called social analysis of the result, then we might have a discussion, but the intelligencia are determined to hold the masses down with arrogance and buffoonery -- they don't like to admit that in the real world they are actually the clowns of the piece.

23 minutes ago, pegman said:

Mine was a rhetorical question mate.

Mine wasn't.  There's enough uninformed opinions flying around

1 minute ago, pegman said:

These people are delusional if they think the EU will ever allow their banking/insurance industries to be centered in a non-EU nation.

Did you miss the question?

2 minutes ago, pegman said:

  On 09/02/2017 at 7:07 AM, jpinx said:

Have any of you actually gone around London recently and seen the rate of building projects being abandoned, or have any of you spoken first hand to EO's of any of the big finance houses in London to ask about their move to Europe?    

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 Let's look at what's proven. Many more instances if you care to look,

or do you prefare to keep your head in the ground.

 

Bad example --  that post has been kicked to death many times since it first appeared many months ago.  That lady actually is the one who made the excellent remarks on UK being able to pay for wars, but not pensioners.....    

16 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Thanks for replying.

IIRC Schultz isn't bowing out, he's possibly attempting to succeed Merkel.

Junker on the other hand, I've researched him along with seeing plenty of videos of him 'will not be missed'.

The UK has already stated it wished to remain a good European neighbour post Brexit that's always been David Davis constant message.




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http://www.wsj.com/articles/european-parliament-president-martin-schulz-to-step-down-1479990522

I think you're right and he's after Mama Merkels job, but that'll take a bit of fancy footwork through the German elections.

Here's hoping that TM's team keep cool heads and eyes wide open with all the crap flying around like bats at sunset.

17 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Having reread my post I don't recall anything mentioning 'threatening' at all.

Now back on topic....There's plenty of open sources (not just this forum) that has documented the EU political seniors warning the U.K. that it has to be fiscally penalised.

Barnier & Co have made no secret to the fact it's the formula not the final Brexit Bill that needs focused on.

Lastly, the EU knows whom has the stronger hand & the pending negotiations is mainly about minimising litigation amongst other important serious issues, the EU wants to send a clear defined message against any other member considering leaving.

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What he means is that *he* feels threatened .

The punishment warnings were indeed vociferous initially, but the rhetoric has toned down considerably in recent days.  Several things have happened -- Schultz and Junkers are bowing out, so UK is not being subjected to their highly personal vitriol anymore, and the rest of the EU team have taken a peek at the numbers and realised that the EU actually needs UK to be a happy friendly neighbour - even more so during the current round of elections potentially causing other, less-expected exits..

P.S. -- Scottish thread here...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/967800-british-pm-anticipates-call-for-scottish-independence-referendum-report/?do=findComment&comment=11615045

17 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

Seeing as Scotland voted to remain in the United Kingdom & they won't managed to break the Union.

I'm originally a Scot and my views on the SNP are best focused on a thread of its own.




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You are a Scot - fullstop!  Scottishness is not something you can pick up or put down. 

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But what part will Farage play in the upcoming negotiations? How will he even influence them? The government has made a big point of distancing itself from him.

There'll be lots of cheering and jeering from the sidelines, but it appears that TM has the actual negotiating team under control.  Not sure how much leakage there'll be on the EU side though.....

25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

My point about Osborne was to highlight the offtopic nature of the Farage posts. But I suppose, when the arguments are as threadbare as yours, attacking the public figures, particularly the peripheral ones, is an easy option. And, I've noticed, one that you use on your twitter account all the time.

Really?  People take this so seriously?  Twitter accounts for political commentary?  It's difficult enough to wade through the dross in here and find anything illuminating and worthy of comment.  The die is cast, UK's voters had their one chance to "speak" at the referendum and now they can sit back and watch the wheels turn. there's no point in asking the politicians what they'll do since, if all the politicians were laid end to end we'd have a lie that stretched around the world. 

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

May ready for tough talks over Brexit

May ready for tough talks over Brexit

should read....

TVF members not ready for tough talks over Brexit

All part of the reasoning behind Brexit.  It's bad enough trying to keep a handle on westminster politicians' noses in the trough, but watching out for sly moves in brussels is almost impossible.