TerraplaneGuy

12 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Most people are not that analytical. Health scares are driven by the media and it looks like for some reason the Thai media is not giving the pollution much attention this time around.

Fair enough although some of the Thais I know have learned a lot in the last year or so about this.   As for the media, I suspect it's just not news anymore.  The Thai language media is likely bowing to pressure from the government which obviously wants to downplay it.  But even the BKK Post is giving it slim coverage.  I think mostly there just isn't anything new to report.  We can all see the smog and check the AQ sites and what is the media going to tell us that we don't already know?  I think many locals don't want to know more about it, they don't have any good options to avoid it.  

13 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

I noticed the same thing and I think it's simply that people don't care. Lady year it was "new" news... Perhaps even a fashion statement ????

I suspect they've caught on to the fact that indoor air is mostly as bad as outdoor so the mask doesn't make much difference.  Yes there are exceptions but most locals work or study in unfiltered spaces and they cannot afford a home air purifier so they're breathing bad air 24/7 anyway.  

Couple hours ago I was outside at Sathorn on the skywalk above Naradiwas (BTS Chong Nonsi).  My monitor was reading 140-142 (that's mcg/cubic meter = almost 200 AQI).  I've monitored there many times and this was by far the highest I've seen.

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

... The red-orange parts of the year for PM2.5 are really mostly clustered around November to January, sometimes a bit earlier, sometimes a bit later. But most of the rest of the year is reasonable.

 

Actually you have to throw in February.  In 2019 February wasn't too bad but in 2017 and 2018 it was even worse than December and a lot worse than November (aqicn.org historicals).  So basically November-February are the problem.  The rest of the year is indeed reasonable.   But that means 4 months/year are to be avoided.   Not a very acceptable situation.  The trouble for me is finding an alternative in Asia.  Outside of Japan and Taiwan there don't seem to be any major cities that are much better.   Don't trust those figures from Malaysia, they don't monitor properly. 

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

For whatever reason, for the last two days, the late night / overnight /  early morning hours in BKK have been very bad, but the midday and afternoon hours have improved considerably. Probably because of the winds picking up in the afternoons.

 

 

This pattern is a constant trend not only in Bangkok but in cities worldwide and it has been observed by many researchers.  There seems to be some controversy as to why but I believe the usual explanation is not so much wind as the heating cycle.  As the afternoon comes on, the ground heats up and so the air at ground level (the most polluted) starts to rise.  This disperses particles.  Later in the day as things cool down, the polluted air sits and may even be held down by an inversion layer.  Not sure if that's exactly the right description but you will see this AQ pattern almost every day.  Best time for air quality is afternoon.  It's deceptive because it FEELS better at night owing to the lower temperature but in fact the air is dirtier.

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Click three dots top right, Settings, second group is Autofill, Addresses and More.

Thanks but what page?  I'm not seeing any dots at top right

On 12/20/2019 at 5:08 AM, jacko45k said:

Chrome user, but I didn't have that save option enabled. Thanks. 

I'm on the site using Chrome and I don't see a Settings item for this.  Where is it?

21 hours ago, Bogbrush said:

Did you ask whether or not they log the issuance of the insurance into the immigration computer system? If not, is it possible that you could? This will satisfy a concern of many, I think.

They wrote me:  "Aetna have to send the information of our customer who covered under Long Stay VISA plan to the immigration too."  Which I think means, yes.

As the OP, thanks to all for your posts.  Yesterday I heard back from my insurer, Aetna on these questions.  They confirmed that extensions of retirement non-OA visas now require the health insurance certificate.  As for the problem of extension date/policy date mismatch, they are happy to change the policy effective date to match the extension date.  They also can provide the original certificate for pickup at their office (to supplement the emailed version since it seems some offices are not accepting the latter).

1 minute ago, khm2412 said:

A word of warning. Not Chaeng Wattana admittedly. I upgraded my AETNA policy to include 40,000 THB outpatient cover. AETNA sent me the official certificate by secure e-mail. Yesterday at Tha Yang I attempted to renew my permission to stay based on a previous O-A visa, using the e-mailed certificate. Tha Yang Immigration refused this document, insisting that they had to have the original certificate signed by three company directors. A copy was not acceptable. The IO tried to suggest other visa types to me by way of being helpful, but I declined since the health insurance situation may well extend to other visas in the future. They stamped my passport with a one month under consideration stamp and I have to return when AETNA send me the original certificate by post.

Sadly I'm not surprised they insisted on an original.  Can I ask, what is the term of your policy and did they have any problem with it?  The problem I'm thinking of is, as I mentioned above, usually the policy year will not coincide with your extension year (in my case, for example, my extension expires each year in February but my policy in March), so it would not be possible for the certificate to cover the entire year of the coming extension.  Does yours?

2 hours ago, Bogbrush said:

There was a report a few weeks back of a member extending the OA with a correct Thai-issued policy and presenting the certificate, only to be told that the policy details hadn’t been captured within the Immigration computer system. This could well make sense - the issuing insurance company entering data as an hotel does with the TM30 - to prevent forged/scammed certs being presented.

 

Food for thought, and maybe a further question for Aetna...

Thanks - do you have a link to that post?  What thread?

19 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Sorry if I throw some potential cold water on this.

But the fact that you presently have an Aetna health-insurance policy, does not guarantee that that policy is actually thai-approved and that a Certificate will be issued for it stating that it meets the IO requirements for health-insurance. 

So better contact Aetna and before extending your policy to bring it in sync with your extension application, make sure that the policy is eligible for the Certificate. 

If yes > problem solved.

If no > consider whether the alternative thai-approved policy Aetna can offer, is a good deal compared with your present policy.  If not, you could keep your present policy and embark on the route to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa that does NOT require health-insurance.

What would be required for the policy to be "Thai-approved"?  The published law (see post above) just requires Thai health insurance with certain minimum coverage.  I have that.  My policy is issued by Aetna Thailand, which is one of the listed companies on the website for this scheme.  So what could be missing?

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

Aetna Thailand is one of the companies on the tgia website 

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

 

They should know all about the immigration requirement and be able to provide a certificate if you don’t already have it. Check the first page of your written policy documents package. Talk to them about renewing your policy early before you go to Immigration or about syncing the dates.

Thanks I’ll ask them.  Meanwhile does anyone have experience extending an O-A at Chang Wattana recently and being asked for this certificate?

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how it would work. If you have a existing policy the may be able to adjust your policy date to fit your extension date. I recall a report of one of the companies being able to that by crediting the last month to the new one.

 

I think that requirement was meant to be for applying for a new OA visat at a embassy.

I think the change was only meant for applying for visas at a embassy and entry to the country using one issued on or after October 31st. But some how many offices think it is for extensions.

A number of third-party websites do say this medical insurance requirement applies to extensions as well as the original OA visa.

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Does your health insurance meet the requirements to do the application?

 

More info is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

You will need a certificate for the proof. 

When is you extension due?

Thanks.  I don't do my extension until January.  Do you know how long the certificate remains fresh?  By the way I already see a possible problem because my policy year starts in March but my extension expires in early February.  So the policy I can have certified will expire about a month after my extension date.  I won't be able to show insurance all the way through the following year.  I wonder how they expect us to deal with this?

I note the law you quoted is strange in that it refers to "buy a Thai health insurance online" which doesn't make sense since many of us buy it at the local office in person (as I do at Aetna) and why would Immigration care how you buy it, but I suspect it's either sloppy drafting or translating.  Presumably they mean get the certificate online.  I looked at the certificate.  So I have to download the certificate and take it to Aetna and have two of their directors sign it?  What a nuisance for them (and me)!  

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Did you extend a entry from a non-o visa or or a non-oa visa?

I a non-o visa you do not need to worry about having health insurance.

My original visa is Non-immigrant O-A.

I understand that it's now necessary when getting an extension of stay for retirement to show proof of health insurance (minimum B40k oupatient, B400K inpatient coverage).  I go to Chaeng Wattana for my extensions.  If this requirement is now in effect (please advise if it's not) can anyone please tell me exactly what documentation is required?  Do you have to bring a full policy document, or is a coverage card good enough?  I have Aetna (formerly BUPA) Thailand health insurance and on their phone app I can display all my coverage details but I assume Immigration wants some paper.   

On 11/23/2019 at 2:23 PM, Shengen said:

I have air purifiers in every room of my house. I've tried several brands. Most larger air purifiers come with the humidifier option. When purchasing you need to consider the size of the room you want to use it, some are suitable for 10m² and others for 25m², etc. Also, have the salesman show you how to open it up and clean it. Some are completely washable whereas others you need to buy disposable filters for. LG is the easiest to buy filters for as they always have them in stock at the Lg shop in the mall. I've found certain LG models, Hitachi and sharp easy to clean. All the pieces are numbered and it's written what you wash with water and what you just brush dry. One older LG model (I gave it away) was overly complicated to clean and I had trouble closing it, it opened like a cassette player. So the best thing is to test it out in the shop. I really think they make a difference in improving air quality. My filters are always looking really dusty so I'm sure it does something.

Thanks.  Which LG model do you think is good?  Also, what mall is your LG shop in?

2 hours ago, Captor said:

Why is the humidity increasing when starting the a/c? It should be decreasing when the air is getting colder. Sounds strange. Is the a/c 100% OK and sift proof in all 3 rooms? Sounds like humidity (warm air) comes in. Or the room itself is leaking in air from outside when the air pressure in the room gets lower than the outside as someone here mentioned.

Aircon apparently sometimes increases humidity because the cooling process condenses water and then the fan blows it back into the room.  That’s why some systems give the dry option which shuts the fan off when the target temperature is reached.   But basic systems keep blowing all the time.   

But as I mentioned. In my case I don’t think humidity is the main issue causing an increase in particle readings because my aircon doesn’t change the humidity so drastically as to account for the big change in particles.  

37 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

That is not a normal system in Thailand.  Are you sure it does not draw air from outside the room as sounds like a central air system which would involve ducts of cooled air.

It’s not a central (whole building) system.  It’s a condo tower and each condo unit has its own system.  My compressor is outside on my back deck.  It serves only my unit.  What I am wondering is whether possibly it draws air from one room to the other within my unit.  It shouldn’t because the whole idea is each room has its own control so you can cool one room while leaving the others uncooled.  And that does work.  But I wonder if somehow there is air leakage within the system as between rooms, allowing dust to move from one to another.  That would be a fault because it would also impede the cooling process and I haven’t noticed that.      

51 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

You have a very small BR of 10 square meters with a fan on all the time, an air cleaner and and air conditioner?  What size is the air conditioner might I ask?  Where are you located?  Much better to test meter against outside air that is being measured and reported than inside buildings.

 

 

I don’t know how to measure the aircon.  It’s one big system that serves 3 rooms, each separately controlled but pumped from a big outdoor compressor.    The outside air is not the issue although I measure it too (these days it’s usually around 45 which matches the AQI website showing around 130 for my area, Chong Nonsi). The two scales are different as you probably know (the monitor shows raw particle data).   The monitor works well.  

7 minutes ago, Beggar said:

Many aircon filters will not work for very small particles. But recently I saw a new Samsung aircon with Hepa filters but extremely expensive.

But where are the particles coming from?  The purifier had the particles down around zero and then the aircon seems to have ADDED more.  That suggest the aircon is bringing in outside air.  If it’s not, it wouldn’t matter if the aircon has a HEPA filter (which I’m sure it doesn’t, just standard filters).  The room would remain clean if the aircon is just re-circulating and cooling the air.  

10 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually 10 is not that bad (AQI 42 good) - suspect it has more to do with air circulation than anything else - with AC on air is moving much more than just the air cleaner (assume that is AP-12 rather than 1).  Try different positions in room for the meter.

I do find a reading of zero a bit suspect - have you used outdoors and checked with what other stations are reading?  

I don’t think that’s it.   I didn’t mention but I have a separate fan on all the time at a constant level and the aircon doesn’t add that much to the overall turbulence.    As for zero reading it is accurate.  In the sense that of course it can’t really be zero but it’s close enough.   I’ve tested this monitor in many other buildings and it normally never goes down below about 7 BUT it does go to zero in a rare office building that is known to have exceptional AQ.    The important point I think is not zero vs 1 or 3 but the difference between non-aircon readings and those with aircon, which are very different in my condo.  

10 minutes ago, Beggar said:

You say that the humidity rises when you switch on the aircon. This mostly happens at the beginning when the aircon is still wet from the last usage. At this time it might also blow out a lot of dust and other things. But what happens if the aircon is on for a longer time? 

The test I did above had the aircon on for about 40 minutes and at the end the AQ was bad (over 10).  So either you're right that it blew out dust in the first few minutes and it was so much that even after 40 minutes AQ was still bad (if so, strange because I don't notice any big dust blow-out and I'm quite allergic), or it continued to blow out a moderate amount of dust for a longer time; either way it seems strange because I've been using this aircon regularly and as stated just had the filters cleaned.

I posted this on another thread but this is probably a better one so hoping to get comments. 

Has anyone noticed that running aircon impairs AQ?  Here's what I found:

I recently bought a Hatari HT-AP1 purifier.  In my bedroom (about 10 sq m) it reduces PM 2.5 to zero running the fan at the lowest level (1).  But when I run the aircon, PM 2.5 goes up to 10 or more within 30 minutes or so, with the Hatari still on the same fan level.  When I turn the aircon off, PM 2.5 goes back to zero.  I changed nothing else in the room besides the aircon.  I've repeated this experiment several times and the results are the same.

The only other variable I could think of was humidity, which I know can fool the particle monitor.  I noticed the humidity did rise with aircon on, from 61% to 66%.  But that doesn't seem enough to account for such a big jump in PM 2.5.  AND when I turned off the aircon, the PM 2.5 dropped to zero while the humidity was still at 64%.  So that doesn't seem to be the culprit. (BTW I'm using a SNDWAY 2.5 monitor which has proved quite accurate in many settings)

I've read that aircon does not bring in outside air.  My aircon is a supposedly good Daikin system, with the compressor etc. outside on the deck and the indoor cooling vents flush against the upper walls of my rooms.  Just had the filters cleaned a few days ago (before the above tests).

Does anyone understand why this happens?