hookedondhamma

For some reason I think he means becoming a PaKhao, or whatever-number-of-precepts layperson.

Whatever makes you happy, Kevin.

But have you applied this to yourself? For months you've been promoting John Peacock's ideas as if they were the gospel truth and without applying any critical thinking to them. You never seem to doubt him, you disregard all evidence to the contrary and you don't bother to check the work of other scholars who don't agree with him. Have you considered the possibility that you believe him because he's telling you exactly what you want to hear?

As Ven Thanissaro says in his introduction to the Kalama Sutta: "One's own preferences are not to be followed simply because they seem logical or resonate with one's feelings. Instead, any view or belief must be tested by the results it yields when put into practice; and — to guard against the possibility of any bias or limitations in one's understanding of those results — they must further be checked against the experience of people who are wise.

It's nothing new to be sceptical about rebirth in other realms, etc. But it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. That's dualistic thinking. Back in the 30s John Blofeld was wandering around China asking Tibetan masters questions such as whether the Boddhisattvas were "out there" with an external reality or all in our mind. And the masters would answer, "It's the same thing."

Most of the monks who are teaching the dhamma in English today recommend focusing on the here and now and simply not worrying about the metaphysical side of Buddhism. That way we can get moving along the path and reap the benefits it offers. This kind of agnostic Buddhism works fine for many of us and there is no chance of somehow "following the wrong path."

Perhaps, but I have often written, a number of times, that I travel with an open mind to either possibility.

That if I realize enlightenment and become involved with Nibhanna l would acknowledge this.

By airing Peacocks interpretations considerably, one could say I've either made up my mind or accept him as the gospel.

Rather than having made up my own mind, l felt it was important to give this other plausible possibility an airing for discussion.

Up until I listened to his Dhamma talks I was only exposed to strict Theravadan views as if these were the true and only acceptable understanding.

Bringing these views to the forum was my way of attracting critical thinking through the resource of forum members.

I'm still haven't been convinced by others critiques that Peacock is incorrect.

You mention Ven Thanissaro warning of not following preferences, but l don't know of any way I can use to test the action of Kharma nor re birth over many lifetimes.

On the other hand I understand that the Buddhas teaching that self and consciousness is a process, and there is no soul, and that we are experiencing many moments which give rise to re birth of the next moment (like a movie), can be captured through our practice of self awareness and concentration(self experience).

Isn't Ajarn Buddhdasa's teaching of moment to moment re birth, over re birth to many lives, an authority and evidence that can be quoted in support of Peacocks theories?.

After all he was an Arahant.

Karma on the surface is something I've heard many explain along the lines of cause and effect. Any hard pondering about or dissecting its intricate system - is probably something that should be avoided (Acintita Sutta - I know you are a supporter of Mr. Peacock, but could you possibly check out the translation by Ajaahn Thanissaro?)

Those are both tricky things, Rocky. There are many 'arahants' in Thailand whose carry a distinct manner of conveying Dhamma. So while Aajahn Buddhasa's teachings were quite vibrant at the time, they don't appeal to everyone (as Luang Ta Maha Bua's don't appeal to everyone as well). Though that what I've gotten out of Buddhadasa's teachings about the moment-to-moment re-birth was that it is something to be aware of, to know ones state of mind in the here and now to avoid doing any karma by body, speech, or mind and suffering the results of that (vipaka) later.

Many have had some earth-shaking reality, by staying in the present, by practicing. It's well known and documented by former 'arahants' that if there were any hang-ups about their practice, they'd go find a knowledgeable Aajahn to clear them up. By all means, those Aajahns still exist today. But those Aajahns aren''t necessarily the Thai Visa forum. I don't know where you're located, but you could always call up Wat Metta, his temple, in California if you can't understand Thai or speak it. Something to consider - you may be able to rest a little after speaking with him. Sometimes the internet doesn't have everything we're looking for).

Thanks H o D.

I'm in either Australia or Thailand.

I won't make this crossroad a hindrance or blockage other than to explore what can be explored.

To me it doesn't matter which is correct other than to have aired it for others who may be hard and fast on one or the other.

I'm happy with the 4 Noble Truths/Eightfold Path practice and can appreciate both possibilities, which are improving my day to day life, as well as possibly connecting with the metaphysical if it exists.

Thank you for your thoughts and references.

You're welcome Rocky - I haven't been in the Buddhism forum for too long but I do commend your efforts for providing another point of view. It's not something I come across too often in Thai temples. Good luck in everything you do, and sincerely hope you achieve what you are striving for.

But have you applied this to yourself? For months you've been promoting John Peacock's ideas as if they were the gospel truth and without applying any critical thinking to them. You never seem to doubt him, you disregard all evidence to the contrary and you don't bother to check the work of other scholars who don't agree with him. Have you considered the possibility that you believe him because he's telling you exactly what you want to hear?

As Ven Thanissaro says in his introduction to the Kalama Sutta: "One's own preferences are not to be followed simply because they seem logical or resonate with one's feelings. Instead, any view or belief must be tested by the results it yields when put into practice; and — to guard against the possibility of any bias or limitations in one's understanding of those results — they must further be checked against the experience of people who are wise.

It's nothing new to be sceptical about rebirth in other realms, etc. But it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. That's dualistic thinking. Back in the 30s John Blofeld was wandering around China asking Tibetan masters questions such as whether the Boddhisattvas were "out there" with an external reality or all in our mind. And the masters would answer, "It's the same thing."

Most of the monks who are teaching the dhamma in English today recommend focusing on the here and now and simply not worrying about the metaphysical side of Buddhism. That way we can get moving along the path and reap the benefits it offers. This kind of agnostic Buddhism works fine for many of us and there is no chance of somehow "following the wrong path."

Perhaps, but I have often written, a number of times, that I travel with an open mind to either possibility.

That if I realize enlightenment and become involved with Nibhanna l would acknowledge this.

By airing Peacocks interpretations considerably, one could say I've either made up my mind or accept him as the gospel.

Rather than having made up my own mind, l felt it was important to give this other plausible possibility an airing for discussion.

Up until I listened to his Dhamma talks I was only exposed to strict Theravadan views as if these were the true and only acceptable understanding.

Bringing these views to the forum was my way of attracting critical thinking through the resource of forum members.

I'm still haven't been convinced by others critiques that Peacock is incorrect.

You mention Ven Thanissaro warning of not following preferences, but l don't know of any way I can use to test the action of Kharma nor re birth over many lifetimes.

On the other hand I understand that the Buddhas teaching that self and consciousness is a process, and there is no soul, and that we are experiencing many moments which give rise to re birth of the next moment (like a movie), can be captured through our practice of self awareness and concentration(self experience).

Isn't Ajarn Buddhdasa's teaching of moment to moment re birth, over re birth to many lives, an authority and evidence that can be quoted in support of Peacocks theories?.

After all he was an Arahant.

Karma on the surface is something I've heard many explain along the lines of cause and effect. Any hard pondering about or dissecting its intricate system - is probably something that should be avoided (Acintita Sutta - I know you are a supporter of Mr. Peacock, but could you possibly check out the translation by Ajaahn Thanissaro?)

Those are both tricky things, Rocky. There are many 'arahants' in Thailand whose carry a distinct manner of conveying Dhamma. So while Aajahn Buddhasa's teachings were quite vibrant at the time, they don't appeal to everyone (as Luang Ta Maha Bua's don't appeal to everyone as well). Though that what I've gotten out of Buddhadasa's teachings about the moment-to-moment re-birth was that it is something to be aware of, to know ones state of mind in the here and now to avoid doing any karma by body, speech, or mind and suffering the results of that (vipaka) later.

Many have had some earth-shaking reality, by staying in the present, by practicing. It's well known and documented by former 'arahants' that if there were any hang-ups about their practice, they'd go find a knowledgeable Aajahn to clear them up. By all means, those Aajahns still exist today. But those Aajahns aren''t necessarily the Thai Visa forum. I don't know where you're located, but you could always call up Wat Metta, his temple, in California if you can't understand Thai or speak it. Something to consider - you may be able to rest a little after speaking with him. Sometimes the internet doesn't have everything we're looking for).

I don't think he said he wanted to get monks. He was curious as to if it were necessary or not.

No, it doesn't make a difference if you have monks come and bless it or not. It has to do more with your faith and conviction in the Buddha (different situations).

For the future, it may be wise to refrain from using the word 'God' or 'god' when referring to a Buddha image (it's inviting more debate, the definition of 'god', etc.)

Yes...but its in Thai and it is near Saraburi.

I know how to drive there...but thats it.

Oh...and pure honey has not been available in Bkk for a long time...all the dirty old men get to them first.

Ah ok. I didn't even think about it at first, but I just went and searched using Thai, there's a good amount of info on pure honey via that option (if you can read Thai, that is).

Can you type Thai? That'd be great if I the name was known. If not that's ok. Either way I know a few people in Saraburi, so maybe I can find a link through them.

Like Bob, thank you for your post, Siamsam - I really do appreciate it.

We get ours straight from the farm.

Hi Samsiam. Where is the farm to which you speak of located? Does it have a specific name?

Makro is a good supplier of a couple of kinds of natural honey. Reasonable price as usual

Thanks Bob - I actually got my hands on some finally, though not from the Makro. I will keep it in mind for future reference. Thanks again!

Then there was also Ajaahn Chah who never crossed over to Therevada but remained Mahayana.

You mean Ajarn Chah didn't cross over from Mahanikaya to Dhammayut?

Yep, thanks for that :-)

Phra Ajaahns Luang Pu Sao, Mun, and the rest of their disciples (along with other 'accomplished' monks of the present day). Never knew of Mr. Peacock before this, but then again the afore-mentioned monks were accustomed to the 'teachings of the elders' already. Then there was also Ajaahn Chah who never crossed over to Therevada but remained Mahayana.

Perhaps I feel a little differently because I've lived at the temples of Luang Pu Ton, Kanti, S., Samut, and Lee (though his teachings live on) - you see their actions, hear their words, and feel their presence - and know they're on a whole 'nother level.

Luang Pu Ton once told me the only thing I needed to worry about was my breath. Too many questions. One simple answer.

Please don't mis-understand. Questions are wonderful, something we are very skilled at executing in the West. But sometimes it's ok to take a break, and try something out.

Been on a search for some pure honey, but so far have only come across honey that has been cut with sucrose, etc.

Does anyone have a good source for pure honey, or a contact that I can get in touch with?

It'd be greatly appreciated.

These offering cloths are called 'Thai offering cloth', because only Thailand uses them. The monks in Sri Lankha, Burma and Laos do not, and their women can be offended if they are used.

Was going to post the same thing yesterday, but noticed that it was originally referred to as a 'small yellow blanket' and decided to just leave it at that to avoid any confusion.

The fact of Mindfulness is... that we cannot multi-task.

We can only be aware (mindful) of one thing at a time, although it might seem otherwise, because it all happens so quickly.

Whilst walking and chewing gum at the same time we might think we are being clever....knowing the walking, knowing the chewing, knowing the taste....but when we step on a sharp stone, all those are forgotten as our mind(fulness) is taken off them and put on the pain in our foot. Then it shuttles back and forth between the walking, taste, chewing and new pain...all very quickly.

The barking dog takes our mind(fulness) off the breathing whilst sitting, so we then take our mind(fulness) off the sound of the dog by putting it back on the breathing movements again.

Only able to be mindful of one thing at a time, when our mind is distracted we distract it back again.

When at the dentist i take my mind off my mouth and take inordinate interest in my big toe....

:-)

Ha! I just went to the website and couldn't find it! Time to do a manual search. From what I remember it was about different Buddhist traditions and the monks' interaction with women, so not so much on the 'variations' of how it is used, but more so a comparison among branches. Perhaps it was a digital book. It's been a long time ... สญญา อนีจจาติ

Speaking of robe, after chanting today a laylady completely caught me off gaurd. After sitting in meditation I heard the crinkle of the plastic bag and thought 'what can I use? hmmm., no paper, no pamphlets ... the robe again.' Sure enough turned around and used the robe.

Not the correct way, but your intention was correct. Where is the problem?

That was the point. No offering cloth in sight - it isn't something many of us carry 24/7, other than Wan Phra or other special events that pop up. Rather than accept it not offered (which is also 'not the correct way') using the robe is the next best thing. No problem, unless you want to see one.

Ha! I just went to the website and couldn't find it! Time to do a manual search. From what I remember it was about different Buddhist traditions and the monks' interaction with women, so not so much on the 'variations' of how it is used, but more so a comparison among branches. Perhaps it was a digital book. It's been a long time ... สญญา อนีจจาติ

Speaking of robe, after chanting today a laylady completely caught me off gaurd. After sitting in meditation I heard the crinkle of the plastic bag and thought 'what can I use? hmmm., no paper, no pamphlets ... the robe again.' Sure enough turned around and used the robe.

Two days ago a member of my Thai family was ordained.

Big emotion for his mother and father.

When he came out of the ceremony with the yellow robe, his mother asked as a good mother: Everything o.k. now?

But she used his nickname. Confusion. I asked him in English, what is your monk's name?. Everyone understood quickly.

Later in his room many people came to offer comforts for his life as monk, young girls included. He was confused.

My wife told him that he had to put the small yellow blanket on the ground to accept the offerings of women.

---------------

For all rituals in Thailand concerning monks there is not a problem.

The innocence of a not instructed farang but with the open mind to learn about Buddhist culture makes you rich.

Congrats to him! I wish him the best! Lol, talk about names. The English name. The Thai nickname. The Formal Monk name. It's not too bad when you get used to it :-) The offering cloth (small yellow blanket) - I can understand that. Many times I'll forget about it, too (but just about anything will work: tissue, or piece of paper, edge of robe in dire forgetfulness, etc.) when recieving requisites from laywomen.

There's a good explanation of it at the accesstoinsight dot org page if you're interested.

I think Phu Rua has the coldest temperatures... and Umphang has the reputation of being the coolest spot overall. For places to live, you have not much choice outside the provincial capitals, unless you want to set up house miles away from anywhere. Mae Hong Son is nice for a visit, but there's very little to do. Pai is Khao San Road writ rustic.

Don't know if it's fact or not (about Phu Rua) but spent a few months there in Phu Rua. During the summer, it was nice hot days, cold cold nights. During the winter, it was just incredibly cold. Remember thinking "Really Thailand, REALLY?!" There's also Phu Luang that's similar. Or just Loei lol (though I know you said North, would you consider Isaan?)

When I was a novice a lady came to the temple asking about Buddhism, so we tried our best to provide her with materials she could check out for herself. She became adamant and at that point began to launch a debate about Buddhism vs. Christianity (oh, we'd been cleverly lured into the trap lol). She kept referring to the teachings being 'not credible,' stating by the obvious handing down by oral and other methods (as we had told her earlier). We just told her the best way to find out was to read it and try it out. If it worked then maybe that could attest to it's authenticity. To no avail. Something I just don't understand. I'm sure the ability to ask questions via curiosity is fairly common, but if after asking and one can't find a satisfiable answer, it may be the next best thing to put in the effort to search for an answer that is. If one really wants to know something, sometimes he/she has to go and find it (some questions can't be answered, of course). If it isn't delivered to ones satisfaction, then why should one continue to debate something he/she is pre-dispositioned to/hell-bent on? And the world spins madly on.

Householder, I can't find a way to quote your message, but I'll respond as best as I can.

You can stay wherever you want, though that's great you want to stay in the Wat. However, after dana is made you're good already ... and remember that it doesn't take a temple to necessarily make dana.

I can't speak for other temples, but today was Friday; at my current temple there were the normal activities: laypeople come and offer food, monks pour water over the Buddha images, laypeople follow; laypeople pour water on the monks hands from most senior to junior, then all aviici breaks lose. I doubt there'll be anything tomorrow, but konlawat คนละวัด

Though I didn't attend this year, I did hear a few friendly screams from the water outside the wat complex.

The Patimokkha should be recited tomorrow. I've never seen any laypeople present at its recitation, though I have seen nuns there.

Happy Songkran!

There's a story in the Dhammapada about the Venerable Kaccana who was said to have looked 'like a monkey' from a distance, by Vassakara, and for that the Buddha said that he'd be born as a monkey in the next lifetime (if he didn't retract his statement, or feel remorse of). Supposedly Vassakara planted many banana trees, and sometime after he died, it was said that whenever a person would call out 'Vassakara', there'd be a monkey who'd always show acknowledgment of that name.

Don't think that could be labeled as prophecy, though.

I'm not aware if the Buddha really made any importance of 'prophecy' or not, as his sole purpose was to expound the Dhamma for the purpose of getting rid the kilesas.

Interesting, though.

Great information, FabianFred! The comment about the cycle relating to the the human lifespan was new to me - gave me a lot to research and read up on :-)

Fred, as far as karmic links go, I do agree with you about the karmic links formed while living here in Thailand. As far as Argentina, or any other country for that matter, perhaps we don't have links in this lifetime, but possibly from past lifetimes - who knows, the karma that we've done (also unknown) hasn't taken fruit yet (the late Aajahn Pannya stated that it is said in order for one to know ones past lives, one must be very, very aware at the time of death from the beginning to end (so much information in his Dhamma talks). It's pretty apparent our past karma has brought us to Thailand, but how would we have known that when we were children? Perhaps we'll end up in some other country in this lifetime, who knows? ;-)

Also, the Buddha does speak of Dhamma pervading everything, along with the three thousand-fold world systems. If I remember correctly, what applies in this applies in others, so I take it as there must have been Buddhas in other places, not just on earth as we know it.

Good comment about the Jatakas, I was thinking of those, too.

The main issue here I think is to prevent any awkwardness around the monks not being allowed to sit next to or be accidentally brushed by female passengers.

As a layperson, I used to be somewhat confused about some of the things I saw done at my temple (Thai Isaan) in the United States (even more when I heard others gossiping or slandering - it always occured why those who did just didn't ask a monk - for the most part the few Americans in the temple were all straightforward with each other, but I guess sometimes it's just more interesting to do?)

I guess I had the merit to be able to figure out there was a reason behind all of it. At the time I spoke no Thai or Lao for that matter, and the only sources available were the few English books at the temple. Then I began to search for the answers on the internet, put two and two together, etc.

Hearing words like 'allegedly, supposedly' and phrases like 'Well, I heard [fill in the blank]' don't necessarily make for good information, because it's often based on speculation.

Speaking of, one of the basic, but important precepts in Therevada Buddhism (others I wouldn't be too aware of as my sect is the Dhammayut order) is that of refraining from false speech, idle chatter ... one of the reasons it's so peaceful at a temple.

Sure I've heard my fair share of accustions about 'this monk - that monk' but I finally got to the point where I realized their problem is not mine. If there's a way I can help, wonderful. If not, then there is 'upekkha - equanitmity, letting go in those cases where we should remain indifferent, being unruffled - neither pleased nor upset - where we are no longer able to be of help' (from Ajaahn Lee, Craft of the Heart, Wat Asokaram).

From my personal experience some people will be afraid of or slander what they don't understand due to insecurity of some sort, and some will take the effort to figure out why, and perhaps, turn that fear into a worthwhile lesson.

For me, I've never seen it as 'inequality' or 'elitism', even as a layperson. Ego can be a big deterrent.

There's a great website called accesstoinsight dot org, or even a better source, a monk, to consult if there are any lingering questions (we're always happy to answer them :-)

With Metta :-)

Ha ha. While staying in a Thai temple in Phoenix Arizona, I found that the Thai monks favorite breakfast food was MaMa. Until I started cooking them scrambled eggs for breakfast and showed them how to make toast and fried egg sandwitches. :-)

Made me smile. At my temple in the states that used to be my role in the morning. Professional 'Mama' preparer ... wasn't so funny at the time when I had no other choice but to fix them for the monks. I can laugh at it now, but then again I'm no longer a novice. Though the laypeople always brought the 'real' cooked food.

Hi there. I'm going to respond to the latter part of your message (it's wonderful that you're interested in Buddhism!) and suggest you go check out accesstoinsight online. There's alot of great information on there. You could also check out the Dhamma Wheel forum (quite a bit of interesting debate on there, possibly some springing your original question). There are also some great Dhamma talks by the late Aajahn Paññāvaḍḍho from Wat Pa Ban Taad on youtube.

Hi Para. I don't know how well the ones I stayed at will work for you, but the ones I went to were strictly based out of my respect to the abbot/or former abbot of that temple, and his accompanying teachings. All of the monks were wonderful, but my overall impressions:

There was: Wat Sriaphaiwan in Loei Province. My hut was in the forested area of the temple. Luang Pu Ton is an incredible monk (of course) and now that I'm away I realize how much of an honor it was to stay there. If you get a chance to go visit, send me a pm, there's a very great group of monks that I will never forget. That temple was my first taste of culture shock. And I'm glad it was, I was taught many a valuable lesson there. In fact, it was there I was officially labeled 'kon Isaan.'

There is also Wat Srijan in Loei Province (where I went to study Buddhist Philosophy for a while). The abbot there is quite a character. The head monk of studies has a big place in my heart. He never saw me as a foreigner, and there was many a time he would have me eat with the senior monks (he knew I had a fondness for Isaan, and made sure I was kept well-fed with Laotian food when he could). The head monk of the novices is also a stellar guy. You should check out his bowl if you ever go.

There is also Wat Weluwan in Loei Province, though which หมูบ้าน I can't remember. At the time I was there there were two other monks (for some reason no one wanted to stay there for long). It was beautiful, and the laypeople gave me much inspiration when I was feeling low sometimes. Minus the cobra in the tea shack, but it is our partner in Dhamma, right?

Wat Asokaram: Ever since I came across his teachings from Ajahn Geoffs website, I've always held him in high regard. In fact, it is his teachings that I go to any time I come across a problem. It was a big deal for me to stay over there for a while. Many, many monks, but they all have the same big heart. There was nothing like walking into the Dhutanga stupa for the first time and seeing the relics of so many Phra Ajaahns. The chanting there was really special for me, and to this day I carry around that blue book, memorizing this and that. I lived in the hut by the ocean (there are quite a few), literally about 5 meters away, so it was amazing to meditate on a full-moon day hearing the sounds of water in the Chao Phraya. There is actually a monk who ordained under Ajaahn Geoff there who speaks fluent English, and he taught me quite a bit about meditation - a concrete example of a practicing monk, in my eyes. There was also another monk there from the states at that time - but I don't know if he's there or not. The switch from speaking Isaan to Thai occured there, and the library is chock-full of books in English.

At Wat Kao Jin Lae in Lobpuri, I lived in the hut at the top of the mountain, below and to the side of the gigantic Buddha image. The abbot there is remarkable as well, and something I'd yet to see at that point, he went out of his way to teach, even if no questions were answered. It was also the first temple which had caves, monkeys. As well as a seperate branch in the forested area much like my home temple in Isaan (no electricity, water had to be collected for use, etc.).

Wat Glang in Lopburi was the first Mon temple I stayed at, so the learning of Mon culture went hand-in-hand while living there. The abbot there I eventually came to know him like my father, my family. Also the first temple in the 'city' proper - the temple was literally in a neighborhood. Meaning kids all around at every hour. It was there I learned the happiness that came from the giving of a genuine gift. I'll never forget those kids or that temple. And then the great flood of Thailand came in the middle of Pansaa.

Moved to the the main temple in Lopburi with 2 other monks and a novice, where we were studying Pali at the time. In fact, I still frequent that temple often to help with certain events, help the Abbot, etc.

There have been quite a few other, mostly in Isaan whose names I never remembered, but nonetheless equally wonderful places to practice.

But I find that we all have our preferences. Even though I'm now in the city (Pali studies), my first choice are forest temples in Isaan. It's just what I was 'brought up' in, and that's where my 'roots' are.

I really could go on and on, but I believe enough has been said. If there's anything else feel free to contact me. For the most part a majority of my being able to navigate through Thailand has been based on language skills. I've found that if I listen with my 'ears' a new language is hard to grasp, so I used Benjawan's Thai course book 1 and from there have just had an open heart. When you can listen with your ears as well as your heart, the Thai language (or any other for that matter) becomes exquisitely beautiful.