Pedzie

Good to see the people of Russia finally wake up to the dictatorship of Putin and his cronies. Sadly I don't think the mass protests in Russia will achieve much!

Great, looks like us Scots are being spared the subzero temps, +3 today to a sweltering +10 thru the coming week.

Well thankfully us Scots aren't getting it so bad for a change +3 today, +10 thru the week! Shorts n T-shirt on defo :-)

Last year was the worst winter here for many years, I flew from bkk +34 to glasgow -18, instant cold/flu for me! We have a cheek to have a moan, I've met a few Russians from Siberia in Thailand who fly back home to -40!

It's 2012 now...Who are the aggressors ??

The aggressors declared war in the beginning of the conflict, refused their own state when offered one, voted in Hamas a terrorist organization, keep refusing to stop targeting civilians and sign a peace treaty.

Can you really blame them, put yourself on the other side of the fence!

I agree with most of what you've written above JT...

It's 2012 now...Who are the aggressors ??

That's a loaded question. You seem to like to play simple minded black and white games over this massively complex situation. The Palestinians STILL won't accept the existence of the Jewish state. How does work negotiating peace with a people that don't accept your existence?

Yes It's a loaded question..and it ain't black or white! 'Palestinians' Are denied basic human rights! They ain't all terrorists....

If only Israel would realise this...

Make peace with thy neighbour...

I agree with most of what you've written above JT...

It's 2012 now...Who are the aggressors ??

Who created the hatred? You've got to look back a bit. The Great Mufti of Jerusalem, the notorious Nazi collaborator who was the father of the Palestinian nationalist movement already had the hatred long ago.

Who is creating the hatred now!

Thousands dead yet no rapid NATO intervention like we seen in Libya. I wonder why...

Yeah Syria is backed by Russia, the 2 countries just signed a deal for Russia to supply fighter planes, interesting times!

Let's hope that the new leader in North Korea see's sense. Surely the people of that country have suffered enough. A united Korean peninsula would be a great economic power given time.

China will not allow a united Korea, nor does the South really want to be burdened with what will be a long term basket case of a region. North Korea's population would need at least 2 generations to die before it could clear out the national mental illness that is the cult of worship for the Kim dynasty.

Yeah I can see your point with this one, the people of the north have been stuck in a time warp and people of the south are so high tech etc, hard to see the 2 mixing so easily :-)

Maybe the people of the north aren't that backwards as we may think, they at least know about the outside world. Fear rules in the north, without fear then who knows they could make the transition fairly quickly

How much oil has the US gotten from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The "War for Oil" thing is a fallacious argument.

The war for oil is what it's all about, everything may seem fine now with supply's. Think 10-20 years down the line, India & China and other nations will need more & more.

Most oil producing countries have passed the peak oil stage (demand outstripping supply) Why do you think regime change in Libya was so much on the agenda of the US-UK-FR.

The Allies won't stop until there is regime change in Tehran, a government in which the west can deal with more easily, the nuke thing is just a small part of the reasoning about attacking Iran.

You need to do a little reading on energy. New resources are being found all the time and major ones. The Middle East is important now, but that will lessen in the future, The reason that no one wants those lunatics in Iran to get nukes has little to do with oil.

As far as your insistence that Iran would not attack Israel, there are lots of people who would disagree with you and I am one of them. Also, There are no "defense systems" that can guarantee that a nuclear weapon will not reach its goal and it would only take one.

Not about oil...Laughable, again look at the map of US bases in the region, all there to protect Israel..Laughable..The US invading Iraq but nothing to do with oil...Laughable, oh wait, Saddam was a bad man yes, but with zero links to al-qaeda! We invaded 'coz them terrorists right' Laughable...

The Caspian sea, holds lots of oil, the US companies can't access it though, it would need to deal with Iran!! Wow aren't we about to target Iran..Laughable..And to get the oil from the landlocked Caspian sea,pipelines would need to be built thru Afganistan/Pakistan, wow we have a major US presence in these countries, coincidence right ??

Look at the other countries that have nukes, North Korea, Pakistan, no mention of wiping out their nuke capabilities!

As has been said repeatedly, those nuts already have nukes. The Iranian nuts do not and no one wants them to get them other than al Queda and Hamas.

So what would be your idea of solving the problem with Iran ?

Once the bunker buster bombs are ready then I'm sure the megalomaniacs in the US-UK will use them, then after Iran who's next ? Look at Iran's neighbours...Iraq, lots of oil, attacked illegally by the US-UK, Afganistan also attacked under the pretext of the 'war on terror'

Can't you see that it's all about oil ! Dwindling resources, higher demand from India China etc. America wants more influence in the region to control the flow of oil.

Once again Iran with a nuke would not attack Israel, the defence systems are already in place to prevent it

Try 1 bottle of JW black, 2 big bottles of sang-som, lots of water (thai's n whisky n water??) 3 cases of singha/chang between me and my new found Thai friends,4 of us in total... On the beach on Loy Krathong night 2010! Only thing was I had a flight to catch at 0400, we drank the lot tho and I somehow made it to the airport and check in at 0130 ? Amazing to say the least,back home here in Scotland I would probably be dead or in prison if I drank that much in 5hrs!

Amazing Thailand

im surprised they let you on the plane and didn't consider you combustible. Must have stank to high heaven to the person next to you.

Yeah so am I :-) I can slightly remember scrubbing my mouth out at the airport. The night was totally unplanned, I never drink whisky here in Scotland, I'm amazed I managed to keep it together. The sad thing is if the same happened back home, strangers meeting and drinking whisky & beer then no doubt extreme violence would be part of the nights entertainment. I've felt safe with Thai's that I have drank with, but hey probably 90% of then have been female :-)

I don;'t know about you, but generally speaking, I have been able to avoid extreme violence wherever I've gone; an occasional clap in the chops from being over-familiar, but that's about it. And I would not like to say that Sukhumvit was more or less safe than Salford, nor to compare Samutprakarn with Seaton Sands... nor Jumeirah and Juniper Green, or Deira and Dalry.

SC

Juniper Green-Dalry, both 10 mins from my house. A good night out(or not so good) in the pubs near these area's (Wester Hailes-Broomhouse-Sighthill etc) always ends up in violence, Monday morning headlines in the papers are full of the weekends slashings/stabbings/murders! The reason I don't go out drinking here.

I love drinking with Thai's tho :-)

Let's hope that the new leader in North Korea see's sense. Surely the people of that country have suffered enough. A united Korean peninsula would be a great economic power given time.

This thread is really going about in circles with the expected wacko theories presented. How about a dose of reality?

Iran has repeatedly stated it views the USA and several EU nations as an enemy. Why else would the government allow mobs to attack the US compound (which was under protection of the Swiss)? Why else would government leaders use some rather chilling language to express their sentiments? Iran has repeatedly stated that it wants Israel removed as a nation and has used nasty rhetoric in the process. Iran is the one that has obfuscated and screwed around on the nuclear facility inspections since day one.

Yes, Israel may have nuclear weapons. Yes, India, the UK, Russia and the USA have nuclear weapons. However, no one is particularly worried that any of the aforementioned countries will launch a nuke at someone because of a disagreement. However, there is worry from the rest of the world that Iran will do so. Even Russia and China acknowledge this concern. The issue that the rest of the world, particularly those at risk have is to how best to manage the situation. Ideally, this matter should be resolved peacefully, but that would require cooperation from Iran and Iran hasn't been particularly willing to discuss the matter. A breakthrough may be on the horizon if a jump in oil prices hurts Iran's largest customer, China, and if the UN drafts a statement acceptable to both Russia and China. as of yesterday, Russia was indicating it was possible as the draft proposal was incorporating Russian "language" into the wording. Both Russia and China will turn quickly if they believe their interests are at stake. As of now, they do not believe that is the case. Russia is on the hot seat now with the Arab world over its backing of the Syrian regime and it might show movement on this issue to take the pressure off.

This thread is really going about in circles with the expected wacko theories presented. How about a dose of reality?

Iran has repeatedly stated it views the USA and several EU nations as an enemy. Why else would the government allow mobs to attack the US compound (which was under protection of the Swiss)? Why else would government leaders use some rather chilling language to express their sentiments? Iran has repeatedly stated that it wants Israel removed as a nation and has used nasty rhetoric in the process. Iran is the one that has obfuscated and screwed around on the nuclear facility inspections since day one.

Yes, Israel may have nuclear weapons. Yes, India, the UK, Russia and the USA have nuclear weapons. However, no one is particularly worried that any of the aforementioned countries will launch a nuke at someone because of a disagreement. However, there is worry from the rest of the world that Iran will do so. Even Russia and China acknowledge this concern. The issue that the rest of the world, particularly those at risk have is to how best to manage the situation. Ideally, this matter should be resolved peacefully, but that would require cooperation from Iran and Iran hasn't been particularly willing to discuss the matter. A breakthrough may be on the horizon if a jump in oil prices hurts Iran's largest customer, China, and if the UN drafts a statement acceptable to both Russia and China. as of yesterday, Russia was indicating it was possible as the draft proposal was incorporating Russian "language" into the wording. Both Russia and China will turn quickly if they believe their interests are at stake. As of now, they do not believe that is the case. Russia is on the hot seat now with the Arab world over its backing of the Syrian regime and it might show movement on this issue to take the pressure off.

This thread is really going about in circles with the expected wacko theories presented. How about a dose of reality?

Iran has repeatedly stated it views the USA and several EU nations as an enemy. Why else would the government allow mobs to attack the US compound (which was under protection of the Swiss)? Why else would government leaders use some rather chilling language to express their sentiments? Iran has repeatedly stated that it wants Israel removed as a nation and has used nasty rhetoric in the process. Iran is the one that has obfuscated and screwed around on the nuclear facility inspections since day one.

Yes, Israel may have nuclear weapons. Yes, India, the UK, Russia and the USA have nuclear weapons. However, no one is particularly worried that any of the aforementioned countries will launch a nuke at someone because of a disagreement. However, there is worry from the rest of the world that Iran will do so. Even Russia and China acknowledge this concern. The issue that the rest of the world, particularly those at risk have is to how best to manage the situation. Ideally, this matter should be resolved peacefully, but that would require cooperation from Iran and Iran hasn't been particularly willing to discuss the matter. A breakthrough may be on the horizon if a jump in oil prices hurts Iran's largest customer, China, and if the UN drafts a statement acceptable to both Russia and China. as of yesterday, Russia was indicating it was possible as the draft proposal was incorporating Russian "language" into the wording. Both Russia and China will turn quickly if they believe their interests are at stake. As of now, they do not believe that is the case. Russia is on the hot seat now with the Arab world over its backing of the Syrian regime and it might show movement on this issue to take the pressure off.

I would be more worried of the US using a nuke before Iran, the US was the first to use them and they will be the next to use a nuke!

Even if Iran did make a bomb they would not fire it straight at Israel, it would be like suicide!!

Look at the other countries that have nukes, North Korea, Pakistan, no mention of wiping out their nuke capabilities!

Iran having nukes is just the cover story we're all meant to fall for, the US and It's allies want to dominate the region.

Iran also depends heavily on Russia & China for trade and exports a lot of its oil to China, it would be safe to say that Russia & China would not allow Iran to attack Israel. It would be bad for all 3 countries and indeed the world!

Try 1 bottle of JW black, 2 big bottles of sang-som, lots of water (thai's n whisky n water??) 3 cases of singha/chang between me and my new found Thai friends,4 of us in total... On the beach on Loy Krathong night 2010! Only thing was I had a flight to catch at 0400, we drank the lot tho and I somehow made it to the airport and check in at 0130 ? Amazing to say the least,back home here in Scotland I would probably be dead or in prison if I drank that much in 5hrs!

Amazing Thailand

im surprised they let you on the plane and didn't consider you combustible. Must have stank to high heaven to the person next to you.

Yeah so am I :-) I can slightly remember scrubbing my mouth out at the airport. The night was totally unplanned, I never drink whisky here in Scotland, I'm amazed I managed to keep it together. The sad thing is if the same happened back home, strangers meeting and drinking whisky & beer then no doubt extreme violence would be part of the nights entertainment. I've felt safe with Thai's that I have drank with, but hey probably 90% of then have been female :-)

Let's just bomb Iran now..Problem solved who cares about the aftermath!

Try 1 bottle of JW black, 2 big bottles of sang-som, lots of water (thai's n whisky n water??) 3 cases of singha/chang between me and my new found Thai friends,4 of us in total... On the beach on Loy Krathong night 2010! Only thing was I had a flight to catch at 0400, we drank the lot tho and I somehow made it to the airport and check in at 0130 ? Amazing to say the least,back home here in Scotland I would probably be dead or in prison if I drank that much in 5hrs!

Amazing Thailand

Sharia law maybe!

MAD presupposes rational players. Sorry, the religious fanatics in charge of Iran don't qualify.

You know that logic is like Swiss cheese when considering only one country in the world

has ever Nuked a Civilian Population

In the coming months, that will be another country added to the list :-)

You're trying to make this personal. I am talking about Iran. We know what the current leadership wants and it is doing regarding their nuclear program. The west's hope for a "moderate" to take over is represented by Moussavi. It is well known and accepted that Iran's success in its nuclear program is a source of national pride for Iranian nationalists, and most Iranians are obviously Iranian nationalists, regardless of their position on the Islamic fundamentalist regime leadership.

No JT..This is not personal with you ok . Iran is such a diverse country, the youth of Iran does not want confrontation with Israel, or anyone else...Yes I'ts a shame the country is ruled by crazy people. Given time I think Iran can change, we don't have that time...If you seriously think Iran will fire I'ts first nuke towards Israel then you are crazy for thinking this! It would never get the chance to fire a weapon ( i think you and me know this). Attacking Iran would be a big mistake, we have the technology to stop Iran firing nukes to Israel.

The leadership in Iran is crazy, but not that crazy to instantly attack Israel!! Ahmadinejad is the face of Iran, he doesn't really call the shots..

Again..look at the map I posted JT...Iran is not playing ball with the west, that doesn't mean we should attack them!

Ahmadinejad

Who controls Fareed Zakaria?

Answer the above question please...How could you possibly know that normal Iranians want the bomb, give me proof of your statement...You Can't!

...

You posted the above, 'even moderate Iranians' want a nuke device. Do you have anything to back this up ? How the hell could you possibly know this ?

...

This kind of basic information is easily available.

(It is worth pointing out to those, such as Gingrich, who see regime change as the “solution” that Mousavi and other leaders of Iran’s Green Movement strongly support its nuclear program and have criticized Ahmadinejad for giving away too much in his offers of negotiations with the West.)

http://www.washingto...sPbP_story.html

Nice to see you quoting from US press ?? This of course only gives you an American perspective of things, surely 1 sided! I am British, I pay no attention to what the 'controlled media' tell me here. Iran's press will also be 1 sided! Does this represent the whole Iranians opinion? I hardly doubt it...Try find a credible source of info JT Not US or Iranian media outlets, they both lie! Or print what they are told to do.

Ordinary Iranians want nukes?? Give me evidence of that, minus US EU UK media thoughts on the idea!

To add yet another note of pessimism, even the moderate Iranians, you know, the ones the west is hoping with overthrow the theocratic dictatorship, want Iran to have nukes!

Ok JT. I don't want to argue with you, and I will close my thoughts on this subject.

You posted the above, 'even moderate Iranians' want a nuke device. Do you have anything to back this up ? How the hell could you possibly know this ? Like most of the middle east, they want freedom/maybe even democracy. A moderate Iranian would probably want to be integrated into the wider world, they Iranians aren't all terrorists!! If they had a moderate stable leadership then Iran would only be an asset to the world in general (without the warmongering west wanting to dictate its own policy to Iran)