jamesbrock

In Australia, an 11% approval rating would get a PM sacked...

In Australia they have elections.

Touché.

In Australia, an 11% approval rating would get a PM sacked...

What's the point of having the muslims? Sell to Malaysia.

Well maybe it's because they are actually Thai, and have lived there longer than anyone from Thai Visa who has lived in Thailand?

Actually, no, not if you ask them - they are ethnic Malay - and that's the whole point of the insurgency.

The provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, as well as neighbouring parts of Songkhla Province, and the northeastern part of Malaysia (Kelantan), formed part of the Kingdom of Pattani, founded around the mid-13th century CE. In the 14th century CE, the Ayutthaya kingdom conquered the isthmus making the Kingdom of Pattani a self-governing vassal state, which owed allegiance to the king of Ayutthaya, but otherwise ran their own affairs. For centuries the King of Siam restricted himself to exacting a periodic tribute in the form of Bunga mas, ritual trees with gold leaves and flowers that were a symbolic acknowledgement of Siamese suzerainty, leaving the Pattani rulers largely alone.

With the fall of Ayutthaya to the Burmese in 1569, Pattani became virtually independent, declaring complete independence after the Burmese, once again, captured and destroyed Ayutthaya in 1767. Pattani was again conquered by the Kingdom of Siam in 1785, and resumed its tributary status until 1909, when the Sultanate was divided between London and Bangkok under the the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909.

While the nation state of Thailand was created by Bangkoks colonisation of the north, north-east and south, the Pattani ruling class was never co-opted or assimilated into the Thai ruling elite (and the ethnic Malay population have never been respected or seen as fellow citizens). Even after the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, the government in Bangkok interfered little locally, relying on local officials for the implementation of policies within the Patani region. This included an exemption in implementing Thai Civil Law, which had allowed Muslims to continue their observance of local Islamic laws regarding issues on inheritance and family.

However, by 1934 Marshall Plaek Phibunsongkhram set in motion of a process of Thaification which had as its objective the cultural assimilation of the Pattani people, among other ethnic groups in Thailand. The National Culture Act was enforced as a result of the Thaification process, promoting the concept of "Thai-ness" and its centralist aims. Its "Mandate 3" was directly aimed at the Patani people. By 1944, Thai civil law was enforced throughout the land including the Patani region, over-riding earlier concessions to local Islamic administrative practices. The school curriculum was revised to be Thai-centric, with all lessons in the Thai language, to the detriment of the local Jawi. Traditional Muslim courts that formerly handled civil cases were removed and replaced with civil courts run and approved by the central government in Bangkok.

This destruction and division of their Sultanate by the British, forced assimilation and perceived imposition of Thai-Buddhist cultural practices upon their society by the Thais, and being denied recognition as a culturally separate ethnic minority forced Pattani leaders to react against the Thai government policy towards them, leading to the insurgency as we know it today.

Good one. So, would Malaysia be interested in buying?

[Edit: apologies for the long post; it is a complex situation that requires more than a simple paragraph to answer.]

The question is not so much as whether Malaysia would be willing to 'buy,' but whether the Thai ruling class would be prepared to lose face internationally by 'selling.'

I, too, have often thought, 'why not just let them have it?' It should not come as a surprise to many to know that the Thai ruling class who control the Thai state have a political, economic and social interest in maintaining the present borders and preventing any separatist movements from splitting off areas which are currently within these borders. States always exists in relation to other states in the world, with more powerful states dominating weaker states in an “imperialist” fashion. States also exist to control and rule over ordinary working people who make up the bulk of its citizens. As Lenin wrote in “State and Revolution”, the state is an instrument of class rule used to suppress other classes within society. Thus any sign of weakness, where a particular ruling class is seen to have to devolve power to others, or seen to lose control over certain areas, puts that ruling class at a disadvantage in relation to its international rivals and those who seek to challenge its rule from within.

The Thai state is certainly not a superpower, but it is jealous of its power over the population and resources within the present borders and it is also keen to act as a mini-imperialist with regard to weaker neighbouring states such as Lao and Cambodia. For this reason, the main obstacle to the self-determination for the people of Pattani, is the Thai state and its various constituents, especially the military. The Thai ruling class will not concede autonomy or independence for the people of Pattani without a struggle.

Even though the conflict is rooted in the history context described above, those historical grievances need to be re-fuelled for successive generations by continuing grievances and these grievances (explained below) have been, and are being, continually provided by the Thai state; and are the factors which explain why the people of Pattani have little faith in the Thai state today. It is necessary to point out that unlike the north and north-east, the old Pattani rulers and the entire Malay Muslim population of the area have been systematically excluded from mainstream Thai society, in terms of politics, culture and economic development. This explains the antagonism towards the Thai ruling class in Pattani. These factors are missing in north or north-east Thailand, which though colonised by Bangkok in the same period of capitalist nation building, are not involved in a similar civil war.

When considering the violence in Pattani, one should attempt to forget religious aspect that is being pushed by the mainstream as a main driving factor (especially the fallacy that the civil war is somehow instigated from abroad by “international Muslim extremists”) and find out what the local people are saying. Local Muslim people do not generally hate their Buddhist neighbours - the civil war never started as “communal violence” between people of differing religions, and this is still the case today. What local people are saying more than anything is that they want respect. Their religion, language and culture are not respected by the Thai state. The state education system emphasises Thai, Buddhist and Bangkok history and culture (considering Pattani's rich history and significant strategic importance in terms of international trade, this erasure of its history could explain why schools are often burnt). In the past 60 years successive Thai governments have arrested religious leaders, banned the teaching of yawee (the local dialect of Malay spoken in the area), closed religious schools, forced students to learn the Thai language, forced students to wear Thai-style clothes, encouraged people to change their names to “Thai” names and forcibly changed the names of local districts to “Thai-sounding” names. Up to the late 1990s most local people were not really demanding a separate state, although Thai government violence over the last 25 years—notably the Takbai and Krue-Sa massacres under the Thaksin government—may now have pushed most people towards supporting separation.

Pattani has also been severely neglected economically, and, even when there has been development, it has not been the majority of local Malay Muslims who have benefited. Approximately 160 billion baht is being spent by the Thai state in Pattani and, as a body of men, the military benefit from this more than anyone else (often in a corrupt manner). 70% of of the spending goes to counter-insurgency measures; the local economy of Pattani, at 120 billion baht, is worth less than this bloated military budget. Even so-called “development projects” in Pattani, such as road building, are given to military construction units. Few local jobs for local people are created and many people seek work in neighbouring Malaysia.

Most military commanders know deep down that they cannot beat the insurgents because they have local support and are able to carry out many operations freely. The only strategy that they have is to try to contain the violent situation so that it does not get any worse. These people can only talk about making Thai state “command structures” more efficient. Meanwhile, ordinary soldiers, many of whom are recruited or drafted from the poor villages of the north-east, have no will to fight. They care nothing about “the protection of the nation” and try just to survive their tour of duty. However, some more intelligent military commanders with field experience, like retired General Chawalit Yongjaiyut, have supported the idea of special political autonomy for Pattani. Chawalit gained experience from the conflict with the Communist Party of Thailand in the late 1970s and understands that a political solution, rather than a military solution. is necessary.

It would be safe to say, however, that no political solution can be achieved while Pattani is flooded by men with guns. Forty-five per cent of the Thai military is currently occupying Pattani and added to this are the thousands of villagers who have been armed by the Thai state in so-called “village protection squads”. Apart from the army, paramilitary rangers and police, there are 3300 members of the Volunteer Defence Corps, 47,000 Village Defence Volunteers and 24,000 Village Protection Volunteers. The Village Protection Volunteers are an exclusively Buddhist force, under the queen’s patronage.

Let me pause here to categorically state that I believe that armed struggle is not the solution. One can empathise with all those who are oppressed by the Thai state without supporting their actions. Political struggles by mass movements—whether or not they are involved in armed struggles, strikes or mass protests—can be successful in forcing ruling classes to concede changes in the structure and the shape of the state. But ultimately change will be conceded by political decisions taken by politicians in consultation with other members of the ruling class. If these politicians are subjected to democratic elections and are accountable to the population it can be easier to change their minds. The so-called “peace talks”, held between the separatist Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) and the Thai authorities in early 2013, was headed and controlled by the military. The top Thai negotiator was Lieutenant General Paradon Pattanatabut, secretary-general of the National Security Council. Even then, General Prayuth rejected out of hand the BRN demand for self-rule, by stating that he would “never accept” any change to the unitary Thai state. Now that he is PM, it seems even less likely that any peace talks will bear fruit, as no political solution can be achieved while negotiations with the separatists are run by the military instead of elected politicians. The local population cannot possibly participate in political discussions about their future in this atmosphere of war, violence and fear.

In order to achieve a political solution and self-determination in Pattani, the power and influence of the military in all aspects of Thai politics and society needs to be drastically reduced. The military budget needs to be cut to the bone and military officers removed from the media and state enterprises. Those who ordered the shooting of civilians in Bangkok and in Pattani and those who staged coup d'états need to be brought to justice. Unsurprisingly, these are the exact same factors required to build democracy, freedom and social justice in the rest of Thailand.

It should be obvious that the struggle for self-determination in Pattani closely parallels the struggle for democracy and freedom in Thailand as a whole. For both to be achieved, the power and influence of the Thai military needs to be reduced and draconian laws which limit freedom of expression, such as the emergency law, the defamation laws, and the lèse majesté law, must be repealed.

Unless a new pro-democracy movement—which is independent from Pheu Thai and the military, is willing to reject conservative Thai nationalism, and re-write the Thai narrative—can arise, the path towards self-determination in Pattani and freedom and democracy for Thailand as a whole will be a long one.

According to the NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction, most models suggest a transition to ENSO-neutral by May-June-July (MJJ) 2016 with the increasing possibility of La Niña conditions after June-July-August (JJA) 2016.

La Niña is the positive phase of the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and is associated with heavy rains in Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand. The last La Niña episode occurred between mid-2010 and early 2012 - this La Niña was a large factor in the 2011–2012 Thailand floods.

This is the updated forecast as of 25 April:

la nina.jpg

El nino is tired in some months, he needs la nina.Then some TVa posters will be happy to blame the Governemnt for negligence in front of floodrd

If floods do eventuate, and neither government learned any lessons from the 2011-2012 floods nor did anything the minimise the damage of any future flood disaster, whom do you suggest TV posters blame?

The bars represent the probability of a particular ENSO phase (El Niño/neutral/La Niña), so the chance of La Niña and ENSO-neutral are about equal by June-July-August, with La Niña favoured afterwards.

While La Niña is associated with heavy rains in Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand, and the last La Niña episode was a large factor in the 20112012 Thailand floods, not all La Niña episodes cause flooding in Thailand.

What is concerning, is that in 2011, the monsoon started in May, and major flooding began as Tropical Storm Nock-ten hit around 31 July, which was exacerbated by heavy rains continuing longer than usual due to the effect of La Niña - and now we have two tropical storms forecast in August to September in conjunction with this La Niña...

So as bull <deleted> baffles brains.... What you're saying is that it might rain sometime soon, if not before?

Apologies for my use of cited sources, technical terms and multi-syllabic words; next time I'll just make unsubstantiated claims using small words. Krub.

What's the point of having the muslims? Sell to Malaysia.

Well maybe it's because they are actually Thai, and have lived there longer than anyone from Thai Visa who has lived in Thailand?

Actually, no, not if you ask them - they are ethnic Malay - and that's the whole point of the insurgency.

The provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, as well as neighbouring parts of Songkhla Province, and the northeastern part of Malaysia (Kelantan), formed part of the Kingdom of Pattani, founded around the mid-13th century CE. In the 14th century CE, the Ayutthaya kingdom conquered the isthmus making the Kingdom of Pattani a self-governing vassal state, which owed allegiance to the king of Ayutthaya, but otherwise ran their own affairs. For centuries the King of Siam restricted himself to exacting a periodic tribute in the form of Bunga mas, ritual trees with gold leaves and flowers that were a symbolic acknowledgement of Siamese suzerainty, leaving the Pattani rulers largely alone.

With the fall of Ayutthaya to the Burmese in 1569, Pattani became virtually independent, declaring complete independence after the Burmese, once again, captured and destroyed Ayutthaya in 1767. Pattani was again conquered by the Kingdom of Siam in 1785, and resumed its tributary status until 1909, when the Sultanate was divided between London and Bangkok under the the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909.

While the nation state of Thailand was created by Bangkok’s colonisation of the north, north-east and south, the Pattani ruling class was never co-opted or assimilated into the Thai ruling elite (and the ethnic Malay population have never been respected or seen as fellow citizens). Even after the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, the government in Bangkok interfered little locally, relying on local officials for the implementation of policies within the Patani region. This included an exemption in implementing Thai Civil Law, which had allowed Muslims to continue their observance of local Islamic laws regarding issues on inheritance and family.

However, by 1934 Marshall Plaek Phibunsongkhram set in motion of a process of Thaification which had as its objective the cultural assimilation of the Pattani people, among other ethnic groups in Thailand. The National Culture Act was enforced as a result of the Thaification process, promoting the concept of "Thai-ness" and its centralist aims. Its "Mandate 3" was directly aimed at the Patani people. By 1944, Thai civil law was enforced throughout the land including the Patani region, over-riding earlier concessions to local Islamic administrative practices. The school curriculum was revised to be Thai-centric, with all lessons in the Thai language, to the detriment of the local Jawi. Traditional Muslim courts that formerly handled civil cases were removed and replaced with civil courts run and approved by the central government in Bangkok.

This destruction and division of their Sultanate by the British, forced assimilation and perceived imposition of Thai-Buddhist cultural practices upon their society by the Thais, and being denied recognition as a culturally separate ethnic minority forced Pattani leaders to react against the Thai government policy towards them, leading to the insurgency as we know it today.

15 to 20 years are you crazy they don't even get that for murder in the UK !!! And how long do you think the Welsh couple should get for giving the first blow pensioners or not you do not slap someone in the face especially a Thai and expect to walk away in a street full of drunks celebrating new year ! Have a look at the real video Maybe the Welsh Oap thought she would get away with that as she was a older woman. They are not blameless for sure.

True - Nicolle Earley, 16, was ordered to serve a minimum of 14 years in prison for the murder of Ann Gray, 63, who died as a result of a head injury after she was knocked to the ground and repeatedly stomped on. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8530035.stm

Jasmine Jenkins, 22, and James Jenkins, 34, were both been jailed for six years for grievous bodily harm for the unprovoked assault of a a 69-year-old man while travelling on a bus. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/horrific-pictures-show-pensioner-being-11085700

I'd like to see these Thai thugs put away for at least 5 years, that ought to show them how tough they aren't.

no mention of La Niña or its affect?

La Niña is still a ways out into the future - and won't start affecting weather until well into the Autumn period.

According to the NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction, most models suggest a transition to ENSO-neutral by May-June-July (MJJ) 2016 with the increasing possibility of La Niña conditions after June-July-August (JJA) 2016.

La Niña is the positive phase of the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and is associated with heavy rains in Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand. The last La Niña episode occurred between mid-2010 and early 2012 - this La Niña was a large factor in the 2011–2012 Thailand floods.

This is the updated forecast as of 25 April:

la nina.jpg

How to interpret this chart?

Is the line or the bars more important?

Does that mean Thailand has increased risk of flooding due to a strong La Niña effect?

The bars represent the probability of a particular ENSO phase (El Niño/neutral/La Niña), so the chance of La Niña and ENSO-neutral are about equal by June-July-August, with La Niña favoured afterwards.

While La Niña is associated with heavy rains in Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand, and the last La Niña episode was a large factor in the 2011–2012 Thailand floods, not all La Niña episodes cause flooding in Thailand.

What is concerning, is that in 2011, the monsoon started in May, and major flooding began as Tropical Storm Nock-ten hit around 31 July, which was exacerbated by heavy rains continuing longer than usual due to the effect of La Niña - and now we have two tropical storms forecast in August to September in conjunction with this La Niña...

"The good news was revealed by the departments deputy director-general Mr Songkran Aksorn at the meeting of a committee responsible for solving the drought crisis."

Awesome job by the committee....whatever they're doing, just keep it up. It's really working.

By the end of May lets hope they have a plan B

Committee Responsible for solving the drought crisis Action Plan (CRAP):

1. Wait.
2. Change name to Committee Responsible for solving the flood crisis
3. Prepare tugboats and rope
4. Wait

no mention of La Niña or its affect?

La Niña is still a ways out into the future - and won't start affecting weather until well into the Autumn period.

According to the NOAA Center for Weather and Climate Prediction, most models suggest a transition to ENSO-neutral by May-June-July (MJJ) 2016 with the increasing possibility of La Niña conditions after June-July-August (JJA) 2016.

La Niña is the positive phase of the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) and is associated with heavy rains in Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand. The last La Niña episode occurred between mid-2010 and early 2012 - this La Niña was a large factor in the 2011–2012 Thailand floods.

This is the updated forecast as of 25 April:

"The good news was revealed by the department’s deputy director-general Mr Songkran Aksorn at the meeting of a committee responsible for solving the drought crisis."

Awesome job by the committee....whatever they're doing, just keep it up. It's really working.

Committee Responsible for solving the drought crisis Action Plan (CRAP):

1. Wait.

R.I.P Thailand. This could be the last nail in the coffin for western tourists. Its a shame because these folks were regular visitors to the Kingdom. Thailand, you can enjoy the low rent Chinese mobs from now on. There's billions of them.

I'm not being unkind but from reports and pictures of the recent appalling incident there is nothing about any of the people involved that could not be described as"low rent".

A bit unkind, but you have probably watched Jeremy Kyle too!

Grossly unfair rather than a bit unkind: perhaps there is a hint of Daisy and Onslow about them but just ordinary people doing nothing wrong.

Any editing of that tape was done by the RTP ( ostensibly to cut down the violence) rather that the so called leftist press.

With all due respect, assaulting a Thai local in the street is hardly "doing nothing wrong."

What exactly are they spending on?

Most of the really big ticket infrastructure projects at the national level are still in the planning/environmental stages AFAIK, and haven't progressed to the actual awarding of construction contracts or actual construction work, as yet.

However, I'm not sure about the exact status of the plans for buying the submarine they so desperately want/need...

That's the 1.57 trillion baht question!

They spent a truckload fighting the drought, there was that housing project, but I'm not sure of any other big ticket projects. It would be very interesting to see where this money went, and how much of it was siphoned off as 'commissions'...

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

I didnt know them, it was just random, he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

So where is this so called unedited version. It would be all over Thai media and government stations but is not.

It's been posted in this thread a number of times, along with the timeline of pertinent events edited out in the tabloid version...

0:21 - son pushes Thai guy in white shirt

0:25 - Thai guy in white shirt pushes son, who trips and smashes head into step

0:55 - mother slaps same guy

1:15 - dad punches same guy to the ground, spilling drink

1:16 - all hell breaks loose

https://youtu.be/PsbE7Gku5iU

Again, let me clearly state that I in no way condone what the thugs did to this family - simply stating the facts that the Welsh family started it in no way condones, justifies, excuses, or otherwise supports what the Thai thugs did.

Slapping, getting in his face, looks like her mouth is going pretty fast, not hard to fathom she was screaming, pushing him.

This case has confirmed my suspicions, the British media have a real problem with truth and the public are completely mislead at every turn.

Editing the the video ad putting up this sort of complete fabrications needs to be fully exposed.

post-145516-14619195127111.jpg

Absolutely correct!

And suckers fall for it without question, attacking those who see through the lies...

The two groups first came into contact (literally and figuratively) when the guy in the white shirt walks into, and is pushed away by, the son. The only drink was the bottle the white shirt guy was holding, the only time that drink spilled, was when the father punched him to the ground. And they come up with a headline like this!

It beggars belief!

The pensioners acted like a pair of rseholes so they got treated like a pair of rseholes

Not exactly rocket science.

I'm guessing most of the outraged posters on here didn't watch or understand what happened in the video...instead just read the lies in the British media looking to push buttons to shift copy.

What amazes me is that you are able to even push the on button to your tablet/phone/computer. It might not be rocket science to most, but to you it probably is.

How was Remedial class?

Your sole contribution to the discussion appears to be name calling.

I think that means I won before we even got started.

It's Amazing the things you learn in remedial class, you should try it sometime.

A lot of people have a moral compass, it helps seeing what is right, and what is wrong. Some people also only choose to see what they believe.

The apologists, and you are one of those seem to think that the tourists are to blame. Hmm, walking down the street and getting pushed over......getting pushe, punched and kicked, yep looks good.

The Thai haters also only choose to see what they believe - why did he get pushed over?

The Thai haters, and you are one of them, seem to think the tourists are perfectly innocent. Hmmm, walking down the street and a drunk farang shoves you out of his way... Getting slapped, punched to the ground, yep, looks great!

Again, let me clearly state that I in no way condone what the thugs did to this family - simply stating the facts that the Welsh family started it in no way condones, justifies, excuses, or otherwise supports what the Thai thugs did. Moral compass or not, haters like you only want to see Welsh=right, Thais=wrong, and get vehemently aggressive at those who see Welsh=wrong, Thais=more wrong. You only see right/wrong, not wrong/more wrong.

Since when is assaulting a local who retaliated from being shoved by pushing your son right? In what warped world is what the mum did not assault? The Thai haters world, apparently.

So its official now. This guy is a complete failure at every aspect of what he does.

Harsh, very harsh. You appear to have forgoten his song writing ability and of course..................the lottery.

Bike lanes and bike events too Geordie.

I was going to add dealing with the Motor Show pretties, but he even failed at that too...

Timing and description from my post above is taken from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsbE7Gku5iU

But that is not the full video: it edits out the full kick to the face of the mother as she is trying to stand, ie the most appalling bit of the whole thing.

There's clearly a kick to the face of the mother in the video above, are you telling me that the kick to the face at 1:55 in the video above is not the only kick to the face? After they ran away, did they come back and kick her in the face again?

Again, let me clearly state that I in no way condone what the thugs did to this family - simply stating the facts that the Welsh family started it in no way condones, justifies, excuses, or otherwise supports what the Thai thugs did. I am stunned by the ridiculous comments in this thread, and the other thread about the Laotian girl being set upon by weak Thai thugs, labelling us who have carefully watched the full video some vile names and accusations. It begs the question, why? Why won't people allow themselves to accept the Welsh family started it? It can be done without condoning the Thai thugs' response, and still being disgusted buy the mob mentality and sickening brutality, so there has to be a deeper motive...

I understand the emotions, you should've seen the expletives and profanities I wrote to my mate after seeing the first edited video! But the very fact that that first video was clearly edited made me look for an unedited version. And, I think, therein lies the difference, most people want to see Welsh=right, Thais=wrong, so get vehemently aggressive at those who see Welsh=wrong, Thais=more wrong. The video above does show the kicks and stompings, and unlike the videos shown in the UK press, also shows the mum slapping first, and the father punching the same guy (which is also the only part in the video where any drink gets spilled). Those facts are there on the video, they can't be refuted, but they are being ignored so it's easier to bash the Thai thugs (who do deserve a good actual bashing). The response here on TV is all very interesting.

I'd say the tourists started it and I'm not an idiot.

I beg to differ

I agree with him, however the Thai's response was absolutely disgusting behaviour that is totally unjustifiable.

The tourists certainly did themselves no favours at all.

What started out as an argument between the Thai in the white shirt and the Thai in the black t-shirt with red square (the same guy that floored all three tourists) escalated when the white shirt walks into the son, who literally pushed him out of the way - at 23 seconds - but apart from being pushed, stumbling and smashing his face into the step, no punches were thrown up to this point.

When the mother confronted white shirt, black t-shirt was out of the picture having a conversation with friends letting a farang walk through their group without a second thought. This farang stopped to watch the exact moment the mother slapped white shirt - at 55 seconds - and smartly decided to walk away.

Black t-shirt walks back of to put his arm around white shirt—the same time as son gets to his feet and joins his mother—and the mother went straight for him - even though up to this point he had been uninvolved and was not even aware the mum had slapped white shirt.

The son walks around and grabs black t-shirt while a little weed appears to headset mum. The dad then punches black t-shirt to the face while son holds him - at 1:18. At this stage a black cap wearing farang intervenes and appears to try to advise the mum to let it go. By this stage, it was too late; son had let black t-shirt go and he walks around the group coward-punching the dad, the knocking mum to the ground followed by the son.

I'm certainly not saying the tourists deserved to be set upon, but they're definitely not the innocents most people are making them out to be.

Edit: before I get flamed, let me just reiterate nothing justifies kicking someone to the head and stamping on people while they're down, especially to an elderly lady.

"nothing justifies kicking someone to the head and stamping on people while they're down".

Yes it does, if someone attacks you unprovoked, and you put them down, you make sure they stay down, even if it means

kicking them in the head to do that. If they are able to get back up, they could pull a weapon on you. If you want to take that chance

then you are in idiot.

I assure you if someone attacks me unprovoked, I'll be the one going down; but the smart people are never in that situation - especially in Thailand. I'm no hero, and my actual face is more important than a concept...

Some guys are making it sound like the farang family were on the prowl, looking for a fight against the thais.

All the evidence shows that it was actually the other way around.

Who? Can you quote which posts are making it sound like the farang family were on the prowl, looking for a fight against the thais?

I've only read—and posted— the facts as shown in the non-edited version of the video. The whole situation could have been de-escalated by either party several times; the farang family struck first and came out much worse off.

Nothing can justify what the Thai scumbags did once the family were on the ground, and not one poster has tried to do that.

I see a drunk thai ruffian walking like he owned the street (probably does as well) swinging his arm into the farang guy who pushed his arm away….this one act led to it all unfolding… so if you want to talk about what STARTED it, that's it right there.

There is no audio on that video, so it's unclear who said what….that information is critical to piece together what else transpired.

But we can all agree that the use of force by the thais was brutal, savage, excessive and revealed extremely poor character and upbringing. They shat all over Thailand's image…no decent thai or farang would, or should, defend them.

And no one has defended them. I note the absence in your reply of any quote proving your assertion that the farang family were on the prowl, looking for a fight against the thais. Just like there could be no quotes of any posters defending the Thais.

I'm sure every single poster so far in this thread agrees that the force by the Thais was brutal, savage, excessive and revealed extremely poor character and upbringing, but, as you say, it was all started by the son pushing the white shirt guy out of his way, and was escalated by his protective mum slapping the same guy.

As three farangs moved through the scene unharmed, it can hardly be argued that the Thais were out to beat any farang that they saw - even if someone overheard them saying so.

We can all agree, though, that this has done untold damage to Thailand's reputation, especially considering the fact that the edited versions (cutting out the mum slapping first) are being shown overseas.

Some guys are making it sound like the farang family were on the prowl, looking for a fight against the thais.

All the evidence shows that it was actually the other way around.

Who? Can you quote which posts are making it sound like the farang family were on the prowl, looking for a fight against the thais?

I've only read—and posted— the facts as shown in the non-edited version of the video. The whole situation could have been de-escalated by either party several times; the farang family struck first and came out much worse off.

Nothing can justify what the Thai scumbags did once the family were on the ground, and not one poster has tried to do that.

I agree with him, however the Thai's response was absolutely disgusting behaviour that is totally unjustifiable.

The tourists certainly did themselves no favours at all.

What started out as an argument between the Thai in the white shirt and the Thai in the black t-shirt with red square (the same guy that floored all three tourists) escalated when the white shirt walks into the son, who literally pushed him out of the way - at 23 seconds - but apart from being pushed, stumbling and smashing his face into the step, no punches were thrown up to this point.

When the mother confronted white shirt, black t-shirt was out of the picture having a conversation with friends letting a farang walk through their group without a second thought. This farang stopped to watch the exact moment the mother slapped white shirt - at 55 seconds - and smartly decided to walk away.

Black t-shirt walks back of to put his arm around white shirt—the same time as son gets to his feet and joins his mother—and the mother went straight for him - even though up to this point he had been uninvolved and was not even aware the mum had slapped white shirt.

The son walks around and grabs black t-shirt while a little weed appears to headset mum. The dad then punches black t-shirt to the face while son holds him - at 1:18. At this stage a black cap wearing farang intervenes and appears to try to advise the mum to let it go. By this stage, it was too late; son had let black t-shirt go and he walks around the group coward-punching the dad, the knocking mum to the ground followed by the son.

I'm certainly not saying the tourists deserved to be set upon, but they're definitely not the innocents most people are making them out to be.

Edit: before I get flamed, let me just reiterate nothing justifies kicking someone to the head and stamping on people while they're down, especially to an elderly lady.

The dad didn't punch black shirt #1, he punched the guy that got slapped.

Yes, it appears you are correct. I lost sight of him, and black t-shirt fell backwards after dad's punch (while still being held by son), but he was on the ground and got up delirious before wandering off all innocently... only to return right at the end to stomp three times on the son's head... scum.

At the risk of insulting bimbos, could she not make their ideal poster girl?

What a shameless display. Will people really believes it says anything good about this person?

Of course they will believe her.... She's rich so she can afford to leave hundreds of thousands of baht worth of bags on the floor at the airport.... Right? Jeez, I'm not rich and I throw money away daily while I am here...

Hahaha, your comment reminded me of this:

On another note, it would be interesting to know if she actually even bought the bags in the first place, and just wasn't showing off with someone else's empty shopping bags...

EGO on both sides

should have just walked away

http://stv.tv/news/scotland/1352193-scots-family-attacked-and-beaten-by-gang-in-thailand/

"According to the account, "gangs of Thai youths were priming themselves to start punching Westerners" in the area before the attack."

This wasn't a "walk away" situation. The Thais wanted blood and they got it.

I would disagree with that. There would not have been the length of pre-assault discussion as shown on the CCTV clip if they were just out for blood as alleged.

True. As per my post above, a farang in a wet shirt walked right between the main thug and a friend (before he became involved) and watched the mother slap one of the guys before walking away; a second farang tried to calm the mum down as the main thug coward-punched the dad then literally threw his hand up in the air - neither of these guys were attacked or punched.

One unrelated farang was attacked after trying to intervene, but he, too, walked away after throwing a small Thai woman to the ground.

You need to watch this video very closely to see that all is not as it seems. The son, who appears drunk, doesn't bump the Thai guy, he grabs him, but the most telling section comes in at 50 secs when the mother, who clutches the Thai guy's shirt and has been haranguing him for 30 seconds, hits him in the face. He does nothing though she drags him across the laneway and the crowd starts to swell. The guy in the black shirt (the main attacker) then moves in at 1:00 apparently to break up the scuffle. The son (in the baseball cap) and the father (in the floral shirt) then move in on him. The son grabs him from behind in a head lock and if you watch closely, and it may take replays, the father quickly and violently punches the black shirt guy in the face while he is being held. As the son releases him, the father goes and stands behind his wife, but the black shirt guy comes at him and the rest is history. This is an appalling attack, especially the cowardly kicking when they are down, and the perpetrators will and should go to jail, but this family escalated the situation, initiated the violence, and this is a lesson of how not to behave when in a foreign country.

Be careful, some people don't want to know the truth otherwise the justifications for their hated might be somewhat diminished.

Lewis said he was not sure why they were attacked.

“I didn’t know them, it was just random,” he said.

It wasn't 'random', they were beaten up because the mother slapped one Thai man in the face and the father punched another one while the son held him from behind. The clip being shown in the UK edits out all this, but it can be seen clearly in the full clip that the Brits throw the first punches.

Do you have the video? We would like to see this because The USA news also shows the Thais chased and pursued the Brits

Timing and description from my post above is taken from this video: