.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
CMHomeboy78
-
Posts
811 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Downloads
Posts posted by CMHomeboy78
-
-
The Chiang Mai City Arts & Cultural Centre has many old photos and other things on display that may be of interest to you and your friends.
It is located in the old Sala Glahng [Town Hall] near the Three Kings Monument.
It has been years since I was there and yes they do have a great display.
The down side was I did not have a flash lite.
I went for the first time a few weeks ago with your previous warning about dimness in mind. I meant to take a small flashlight, but forgot it. In the event it wasn't needed. The labels were well-lit enough to read.
Maybe they had read your criticism and acted upon it. If so, it would mean that Thai Visa has an influence we didn't fully appreciate before.
Well it was four years ago when I was there. I guess lots of time to upgrade.
Was there many people in there?
Not too many, but I went on a weekday. On weekends it would probably be more crowded. But as you know, it is a big building and can accommodate a lot of people.
-
The Chiang Mai City Arts & Cultural Centre has many old photos and other things on display that may be of interest to you and your friends.
It is located in the old Sala Glahng [Town Hall] near the Three Kings Monument.
It has been years since I was there and yes they do have a great display.
The down side was I did not have a flash lite.
I went for the first time a few weeks ago with your previous warning about dimness in mind. I meant to take a small flashlight, but forgot it. In the event it wasn't needed. The labels were well-lit enough to read.
Maybe they had read your criticism and acted upon it. If so, it would mean that Thai Visa has an influence we didn't fully appreciate before.
-
There is also the history of Pattaya to take into account. The American War (aka the Vietnam War) put Pattaya on the map as an R&R destination. I'm sure in many parts of Thailand rural legends evolved with tales of streets paved with gold or, more accurately, how easy it was to separate 18 year old American soldiers from their spare cash. Those legends probably still circulate in various derivations.
These days Pattaya is a tale of two cities, but the sex-deprived, drunks (who don't notice ladyboys hiding under their beds) who seem to wander Beach Rd at 3:00 in the morning toting bags of gold, mobile phones, wads of numerous currencies and wearing signs on their back that say "Please pluck me" get 90% of the press attention. Naturally this attracts "opportunists." As Willie Sutton, the American bank robber supposedly said when asked why he robbed banks, "That's where the money is."
Unfortunately the Thai miscreants attracted to Pattaya to get up close and personal with the farang miscreants on Beach Rd also spread their net to include the otherwise quieter, gentler residential parts of Pattaya.
Doi Suthep, a Royal Residence, the elephant show, Hill Tribes and old wats all attract a different sort of visitor who probably seems less ripe for plucking and a lot less fun to exploit.
Pattaya remained a small fishing village until the 1960s. Then American servicemen during the Vietnam War began arriving in Pattaya for rest and relaxation.
The history of Pattaya and the way it developed is an interesting subject. If you want to start telling people about it you should learn a little more.
The Vietnam War did put Pattaya on the map, but not in the way you imply. You're wrong in saying that it was an R&R destination. It was not. Bangkok was the R&R destination.
Pattaya was a fishing village on a beautiful white sand cresent beach in the early 1960's. GI's from U-Tapao would take their girlfriends to swim and have a meal at one of the basic fish restaurants on the beach. It developed slowly throughout the '60's and '70's. When I first went there in 1978 it had become a small town with hotels, bars, whorehouses, and entertainment venues that were starting to attract people - mostly farangs - from all over. But by that time the Vietnam War was history. Middle-Eastern sex-tourists were showing up in small numbers as well. Thai tourists avoided the place; they had their own traditional beach resort at Bang Saen a little to the north.
The best sources of information about Pattaya's early days are the ex-USAF guys who were stationed at U-Tapao. Bernard Trink's NiteOwl columns collected as a book would make interesting reading as well.
The crazy over-development and destruction of the natural environment in Pattaya should have been a lesson to everybody.
-
The Chiang Mai City Arts & Cultural Centre has many old photos and other things on display that may be of interest to you and your friends.
It is located in the old Sala Glahng [Town Hall] near the Three Kings Monument.
-
Does anyone know of a decent (objective, not bias) history book on Thailand, which goes into reasonable detail on all periods of Thai history, including some detail on how it all started (i.e Khmer empire etc etc.)?
Thanks
Thailand: A Short History
David K. Wyatt
Silkworm Books. Chiang Mai. 1984
Wyatt, a Cornell academic also translated the Chiang Mai Chronicle, the Nan Chronicle, and is the author of many other books and articles on Thai, and especially Lanna Thai history.
-
1
-
-
If Makita blades are interchangeable with DeWalt, then you shouldn't have a problem because Makita dealers are numerous here. If they don't have what you want in stock they can order it from Bangkok. I bought a 10" Makita tablesaw last year and it came within a week.
DeWalt tools aren't big sellers here, although you occasionally see them - HomePro for instance.
If you can't make the Makita blades work for you, the best bet is to bring a couple of DeWalt blades from the States and have them resharpened locally as needed. There is a small shop at the Kaew Nawarat end of Tung Hotel Rd. that sharpens all kinds of sawblades - even carbide.
Choke Dee.
-
I found a ref at work, too:
Sommai Premmchit & Puangkam Tuikheo, ‘List of Temple Names and Sects in Ancient Chiang Mai’, (Chiang Mai: University of Chiang Mai Transliteration Series No 7, 1975).
I would think CMU library. I accessed this in the UK.
Thanks for that.
All the best, and continued success with your work. I follow it with interest.
-
More info then:
Ancient Chiang Mai (42)
Traditional Temple Communities
Between 1775 and 1797, following the expulsion of the Burmese from Chiang Mai by Chao Kawila of Lampang, the city was deliberately abandoned for just over two decades and became ‘the haunt of tigers and wild elephants’. The main reason this drastic policy was implemented by Kawila and his Siamese ally King Thaksin (1767-82) was lack of people. Put simply, in 18th century Lan Na, as in much of contemporaneous Southeast Asia, control of population was more important than control of territory, and Kawila was best able to deny Chiang Mai to his Burmese foes by moving the already sadly diminished city population to other centres, like Lampang and Lamphun, further to the south.
By 1797, however, the situation on the ground had improved in favour of the Thais, and – backed by King Phra Phuttayotfa (Rama I, 1782-1809) – Kawila felt strong enough to begin the resettlement of the city, populating it not just with the remnants of its original inhabitants, but with other peoples, brought and forcibly resettled from elsewhere in the Lan Na-Burma borderlands. This was the essence of the policy called by Kawila ‘putting vegetables into baskets, and people into cities’. As a geo-political strategy it worked well, having the dual advantage of building up Kawila’s power base in southern and central Lan Na, while at the same time creating a broad swathe of largely depopulated territory between him and his Burmese rivals further to the west of the Salween River.
The questions arise, who were these resettled deportees, where did they come from, and are they still distinguishable in any way as distinct communities? Nowadays most indigenous people of Chiang Mai will identify themselves as Khon Mueang or ‘People of the Principalities’, that is ‘Northerners’ first and foremost, and indeed this is the designation – Khon Nuea or ‘People of the North’ – by which they are generally known to other Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the south. But if pressed a little further about their origins, many will explicitly recall that their ancestors came from some specific region of Shan State, or elsewhere within Burma.
Fortunately we have clear textual evidence of this in the form of a manuscript written in Thai at some time during the reign of King Chulalongkorn (Rama V, 1852-1902) that was deposited at Wat Chedi Luang and subsequently published by the University of Chiang Mai. It is a simple and rewarding matter to follow this list, visit the temple communities named, and speak to the locals in the area, many of whom are well aware of their past history and pleased to discuss times past.
The peoples swept up by Kawila’s forces at the end of the 18th century and during the first decade or so of the 19th century include Bamar (ethnic Burmans), Pa-O (Taungthu or ‘Black Karen’), Karen and Mon, several groups of ethnic Tai, including Tai Yai (Shan), Tai Khoen, Tai Lü and Tai Yawng, as well as a group identified by the 19th century manuscript as Tai Chiang Saen – natives of Chiang Saen District in Chiang Rai Province which is today very much a part of Thailand, but which functioned as the last outpost of Burmese power in the north until it was captured and sacked by Chao Kawila in 1804.
As newcomers to Chiang Mai, very few of these people were permitted to settle within the Old City walls. Rather, following established custom both in Lan Na and in neighbouring Siam, the more trusted deportees were resettled on the outskirts of the city (or even further afield, for example in Lamphun), while those deemed less trustworthy were assigned localities closer to the walled city and the palace, seat of Kawila and subsequent chao Chiang Mai, where their activities and loyalties were more easily monitored.
Least trustworthy, almost by definition, were the ethnic Bamar. They were settled in and around Jaeng Katam, the Old City’s southeast bastion, where four Bamar temples are identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript, all of which are still extant today. These include Wat Sai Mun Muang and Wat Sai Mun Myanmar within the Old City, as well as Wat Muang Man and Wat Phuak Chang just south and east of Jaeng Katam. It seems no coincidence that the former Burmese Consulate, until recently better known as the Ling Yim or ‘Smiling Monkey’ Restaurant, was also established in this area. Other groups of Bamar were settled further south and east, beyond the Kamphaeng Din or ‘Earthen Ramparts’ by Wat Hua Fai in Chang Khlan and Wat Upakhut to the west of the Chiang Mai Governor’s Mansion on Thapae Road.
More trusted by far were the Tai Yai or Shan, who were settled to the north of the Old City in an area still clearly defined as Shan by many of its inhabitants, at Wat Chiang Yeun and Wat Pa Pao to the north of the moat in the area between Jaeng Sri Phum (the Old City’s northeast bastion), and Pratu Chang Phuak or ‘White Elephant Gate’. A third area of Shan settlement is identified as Wat Gutao on Chang Phuak Soi 6, a temple associated with the former Burmese administration, and thought to house the ashes of King Nawrahtaminsaw (1578-1607), the first Burmese ruler of Chiang Mai, and possibly his wife and sons.
The Tai Khoen, a group originating from around Chianghung [Kengtung] in eastern Shan State who were also deemed trustworthy by Chao Kawila, were settled to the south of the Old City in Nantaram District, particularly at Wat Nantaram, Wat Dao Duang and Wat That Kham, as well as at Wat Yang Kuang, a temple currently being re-established that was clearly named after Wat Yanggong in Chianghung. The Tai Khoen community in and around this area, still known colloquially as ‘Ban Khoen’, continues to flourish along both sides of Thanon Suriyawong and remains particularly vibrant and conscious of its origins today.
Another comparatively trusted ethnic Tai group resettled at this time were the Tai Lü of Sipsongpanna, the ‘Twelve Thousand Rice Fields’ today divided between Xishuangbanna Dai Autonomous Prefecture in China’s Yunnan Province, and northern Laos. The Lü, who were and remain noted silversmiths, settled in and around Thippanet area, particularly in the vicinity of Wat Phuak Pia and Pratu Haiya.
Similarly the group identified as Tai Chiang Saen in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript – but who would today be regarded as Thai citizens of Chiang Rai Province – were resettled after 1804 to the east of the Old City, between the moats and the earthen ramparts, around Wat Chang Khong, Wat Loi Khro and Wat Pan Thong, as well as in the vicinity of Wat Mahawan. The latter temple, which dates from at least the 17th century, is thought to have been founded during the Burmese occupation, and has a distinctively Mandalay-style Buddha image in the 19th century Viharn Lang Pracho To.
Two other non-Tai groups resettled in Chiang Mai at the beginning of the 19th century were the Mon and the Karen, both traditionally hostile to the ruling Bamar people of Burma, and therefore generally considered to be natural allies of the Tai, whether in Lan Na, or further to the south in Siam.
The Mon, often associated with water and boats (notably in their main Bangkok areas of settlement at Pak Kret and Phra Padaeng), were settled around Wat Chai Mongkhon on the west bank of the River Ping just north of Charoen Prathet Soi 9. Today, however, there is precious little to suggest a Mon connection with this wealthy and rather over-elaborate temple which clearly receives substantial donations from the city’s wealthy Sino-Thai community. It is interesting to note that Mon often worked as boatmen in this area, and that today ‘river trips’ on the Maenam Ping start and end at the Wat Chai Mongkhon river landing.
The Karen, never an urban people but rather long-established in the hills to the west towards Mae Hong Son and the Burmese frontier, have traditionally been associated with forestry work and elephant husbandry, and were settled in and around San Dok Tho in the Chang Khian area, near the foot of Doi Suthep to the northwest of the city.
More puzzling – and requiring further investigation – are the Pa-O or Taungthu community, identified in the Wat Chedi Luang manuscript as established around Wat Nong Kham on the northern side of Chang Moi Road, and still closely associated with the same temple today. The Pa-O homeland lies to the south and east of Taunggyi, the capital of Shan State, far from the traditional frontiers of Lan Na, though some also live closer to hand, in Burma’s Karen and Karenni States. It is possible that Kawila’s forces may have seized and resettled some of these Pa-O on early 19th-century trans-Salween raids, but it is also possible that the ancestors of Chiang Mai’s small Pa-O community migrated here later on, in the mid- to late-19th century, at the height of Lan Na’s teak trade via British-ruled Burma.
Finally, mention should be made of the Tai Yawng or Yong, originally hailing from Mueang Yawng [Mong Yong] in the north-east corner of Burma’s Shan State, close to the Mekong River and the frontiers with Laos and China. The Yawng, who are close kin to the Tai Lü, were among the last people to be ‘swept up’ by Chao Kawila in the first decade of the 18th century, and while some were settled in and around Chiang Mai, most were resettled in nearby Lamphun, on the left bank of the Kuang River. Today most Lamphun Yawng are clustered around Wat Ton Kaew in the area still known colloquially as ‘Ban Yawng’, and more formally as ‘Tambon Wiang Yawng’ (Yawng City District) where a Tai Yawng Folk Museum has been established.
Andrew Forbes / David Henley, CPA Media
Fascinating article, and another example of why you are starting to be considered the most distinguished of the living Chiang Mai historians.
Concerning the Rama V era manuscript "that was deposited at Wat Chedi Luang and subsequently published by the University of Chiang Mai". Two questions:
1. Where in Chiang Mai is it readily available? The CMU Bookstore? Online?
2. Has it been translated into English?
Thanks for any information about this.
-
On the subject of forced migrations in the early 19th century, it might be of interest to note that the neighbouring Wat Muang Guy and Wat Muang Saht communities were founded by war captives from those respective towns in the Shan States.
Holt Hallett [A thousand Miles on an Elephant in the Shan States. reprint, White Lotus 1988] the British civil engineer whose railway survey maps of 1876 include one that shows Chiang Mai and vicinity with "Muang Kai" and "Muang Kat" prominent where they are located to this day.
Before the Gymkhana Club was established in 1898 its golf course and former horse racing track were part of the old Muang Guy community.
Other areas near Chiang Mai were settled by displaced people as well, and it would be interesting to know more about them.
-
A recent poll in the UK found that 21% of the women surveyed "never feel sexy".
There are questions to be asked: Was it only Anglo-Saxons, or did it include Indian and African Britons as well? Was it only young women in their prime, or was it old post-menopausal dragons as well?
But presuming that it is somewhat accurate, how does that figure of 20% frigidity compare with your experience in Thailand?
I came here in my early thirties and for several years had a succession of passionate [and turbulent] relationships. I then married and settled down to what is now over thirty years of satisfied monogamy.
Fridgid Thai girls may exist, but I've never encountered one up close. Is that just their nature, or do farang men turn them on, and if so, why?
Any thoughts?
-
awesome stuff. are the bulk of your sources books or online?
Books mostly.
Many primary sources have been reprinted within the past twenty years or so; notably by Oxford in Asia, Silkworm Books, and White Lotus among others.
There is probably a lot of information online that I hope to make better use of in the future.
Payap University has a microfilm archive relating to 19th century Chiang Mai that I would very much like to have access to. But without any connection to the school, and without academic credentials as an historian it may be difficult. I'll give it a try anyway.
Thanks for your interest.
-
Who were the first Americans in Ciang Mai?
The consensus among historians seems to be that it was the Rev. Daniel McGilvary and his wife, who came in 1867. As far as I know, there is no record of any Americans being in Chiang Mai before them.
But Americans were a considerable diplomatic, commercial, and missionary presence in Bangkok following the arrival of the first American ship in 1821.
McGilvary's A Half Century Among the Siamese and Lao - An Autobiography, was published in 1912, a year after his death, and is available as a reprint from White Lotus [2002].
-
Chiang Mai Farangs - In Perspective.
I would like to continue the topic with biographical sketches of Richardson and McLeod whose mission journals contain a wealth of information about Chiang Mai and the Northern Thai States during the early part of the 19th century.
Much abbreviated abstract versions of the journals had been published in 1837 in the Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal, in Calcutta, with remarkable alacrity just a few months after they had been officially submitted to the government. They were subsequently printed in London as a Parliamentary Paper in 1869, and have been used extensively by historians ever since.
The journals are currently available in the Turton/Grabowsky edition [silkworm Books 2003] which also includes relevant information about the principal players, the journey, and the countries visited.
Dr David Richardson [1796-1846] has the distinction of being the first farang on record to visit Chiang Mai since the ill-fated Thomas Samuel in 1613.
Richardson was born in humble circumstances to a family of London Scots. Parish records state that he was the son of "Hugh Richardson, Slopseller, by Jane - Wapping Street". So he grew up in the environment of the London Docks, probably living above his father's shop selling clothing and other goods in what would be familiar to Americans as an Army/Navy store.
The next thing we know is that he studied medicine, becoming a member of the Royal College of Surgeons in 1817 at the age of about twenty-one.
His first employment was as Surgeon's Mate on an East India Company armed merchantman sailing twice to China and back to England. He was commissioned Assistant Surgeon on 9 May 1823 and set sail for Madras, arriving on 3 September. Ten days later he left for the garrison at Masulipatam to the north where he joined the Madras European Regiment [MER] which was composed of British troops under the East India Company; it was not a regiment of the British Army as such. Most of the other forces at Madras would have been "Native Infantry" [NI] which had mainly British officers, a few junior Indian officers, and all Indian men.
When war was declared with Burma on 5 March 1824 the MER was ordered to be part of the ten thousand or so expeditionary force to sail from Madras to Rangoon. Richardson was never to return to Madras, let alone Europe. This was to be true too of the greater part of his regiment who were to die in Burma; as dispatches remark ruefully it took three ships to carry them out, but only one for the return journey.
Richardson took part in several major actions. After the Treaty of Yandabo [24 February 1826] which ended the war and ceded to Britain the provinces of Arakan and Tenasserim, the Madras European Regiment stayed on in Burma while the Native Regiments returned to Madras.
In 1827 British military headquarters moved to Moulmein at the mouth of the Salween River. Thus began Richardson's career in the Tenasserim Provinces. For twenty years, until his death, he was a leading member of the expatriate society of Britain's largest territory east of Calcutta at the time, though with Penang, Province Wellesley, Malacca, and Singapore, it was still part of British India.
Richardson's first political and diplomatic appointment came three and a half years after his arrival in Tenasserim. This was the mission to Chiang Mai which commenced in December 1829 following several requests for contact from the rulers of Lamphun and Chiang Mai. He returned on 10 March 1830; his report being forwarded to the government in Calcutta. A reply states that "the Governor-General in Council has perused Dr Richardson's report with great interest and it is considered to be highly creditable to his intelligence and zeal".
His success in this first mission to the Northern Thai States obviously confirmed his diplomatic and organisational talents in the estimation of his superiors.
The years 1834-9 are the busiest in terms of diplomatic journeys. During this six-year period he spent over two years absent on four major missions to principalities in Lanna Thai and what is today the Burmese Shan States.
The success of his diplomatic and commercial objectives is recorded in numerous official dispatches; but beyond that, his journals provide invaluable information about a part of Southeast Asia that was virtually unknown to Europeans at the time.
According to his grandson Arthur, who had been Deputy Superintendent of Police, and died in Moulmein in 1965 at the age of ninety-three, Dr Richardson married "the daughter of a Shan Sawbwa", and had two sons. One of whom, Edward Richardson, married May Phayre, the daughter of Sir Arthur Phayre [Chief Commissioner of British Burma 1862-7] and his Burmese wife. Edward and May left an issue of eight children. Descendents undoubtedly exist to this day in Burma.
Dr David Richardson died in Moulmein on 31 January 1846 a month after his forty-ninth birthday.
His grandson Arthur added that he had become a Buddhist and "was buried in the compound of the Kyaikthan Pagoda" [the oldest Mon Monastery].
Rest in peace.
William Couperus McLeod [1805-80] - W.C.McLeod as he seems always to have signed himself - was born on 16 September 1805 in Pondicherry, the former French colony in India situated south of Madras. It was during the Napoleonic War, and Pondicherry, not for the first time, was temporarily in British hands. So it is likely he was born into a military family. This is made the more probable by the fact that he was "gazetted as a Cadet and posted to the Madras Army" in 1821 at sixteen years old.
He was promoted to the lowest officer rank of Ensign on 27 April 1822. It is not certain what regiment he was posted to at this stage. He was promoted Lieutenant in the Thirtieth Madras Regiment of Native Infantry in 1826. He would have been at Madras for about two years when Dr David Richardson arrived, the latter some nine years his senior in age, and also of senior qualification, rank, and experience.
During the first Anglo-Burmese war McLeod took part in the assault on the old Portuguese fort and factory at Syriam, which the Burmese had stockaded. He also saw action at Pegu, Prome, and at Donabew where he quite likely would have met David Richardson again.
After the war he returned to Madras where he was appointed in 1829 to the Commissariat Department.
In 1830 McLeod was named to a commission determining the boundry between Burma and the State of Manipur where he combined border demarkation duties with his scientific interests; sending fossils and other specimens to the Asiatic Society of Calcutta, which later elected him to membership.
One of the stipulations of the Treaty of Yandabo was that a British Resident must be entertained at the Court of Ava. King Bagyidaw had begun to display symptoms of the insanity that was later to incapacitate him. Power was in the hands of the chief queen and her brother, both of low origin. Under the strain of dealing with this difficult situation, Major Henry Burney's health broke down. He had been Resident since 1830, but by 1833 McLeod was put briefly in charge.
Later in 1834 McLeod - now promoted to Captain - was appointed Assistant Commissioner for the Province of Mergui, the southernmost of the Tenasserim Provinces.
Richardson and McLeod were selected in 1836 to go on a diplomatic and commercial mission with the objective of opening an overland trade route for British goods into China and the largely autonomous and semi-independent states in what is present-day Thailand's upper-north, Burma, and Laos.
Starting together from Moulmein, with provisions and pack animals, and accompanied by traders and guides from Tenasserim, their brief was to ascend the Salween to the vicinity of Mae Sariang. There they were to part company, with McLeod travelling as far north as Chiang Rung via Muang Haut, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mae Sai. and Chiang Tung.
Richardson went northwest through the Shan States which were nominally tributary to Burma. His final destination was the Court of Ava.
As a result of Richardson's three missions to Chiang Mai and Lamphun between 1830-5 the British at Moulmein had considerable knowlege of Lanna Thai. The purpose of the 1837 missions was to go beyond Chiang Mai and establish diplomatic relationships with the ruling families wherever possible.
On this trip Richardson bypassed Chiang Mai but McLeod was here from 12 to 29 January 1837, and on his return from Chiang Rung, from 18 April to 11 May. His journal entries concerning Chiang Mai are fascinating reading and, together with Richardson's descriptions, are the first look we have at the city since Ralph Fitch's writings in 1587.
Nothing in McLeod's subsequent career is of much relevance to Chiang Mai, but to round out this brief sketch the following facts may be of interest:
McLeod returned to his post as Assistant Commissioner at Mergui after the 1837 mission. In April 1838 he was appointed Special Assistant to Colonel Benson who became British Resident at the Court of Ava after Henry Burney's departure.
Following nearly two years of diplomatic service in the Burmese Kingdom, Captain McLeod was posted to British military headquarters at Moulmein where he remained for the next seven years.
In 1840 he married the twenty year old daughter of the Inspector General of Army Hospitals. They were to have ten children. The next reference to McLeod's military career is his promotion to Lieutenant-Colonel in 1853, and service in India during the 1857 Mutiny. He was appointed full Colonel of his regiment, the Thirtieth Madras Native Infantry in 1865, a post he held until his retirement in 1869 at the age of sixty-four.
Historical sources speak of his "return" to England in 1869. But since there is no record of his ever having been there before, I don't see how it can be considered a return. Anyway, he retired there, where he died on 4 April 1880 in London.
He would have been known by those with an interest in Burma, and official circles may still have sought his advice. He was the only British officer to have visited Chiang Tung and north to the mountainous borderlands of China.
There had also been a Burmese embassy to London in 1872 in which McLeod might well have been involved in some way.
All in all a remarkable life.
Rest in peace.
The next significant development in Chiang Mai was the arrival of the Rev. Daniel McGilvary. The American Protestant Missionaries and the British teak-wallahs were the first farangs to take up residence in the city.
In my next post I would like to look at that event and the consequences that ultimately led to the end of the Lanna Dynasty.
To be continued.....
-
I have two daughters who both graduated from CMU. I don't know to what extent they participated in undergaduate silliness, but even if they joined in with alacrity it didn't leave any lasting psychological scars.
My eldest went on to get a masters degree in International Law from Chulalongkorn, and a subsequent appointment to a government ministry. She was recently chosen to represent Thailand at this summers UN International Law Fellowship program at the Hague. She leaves for the Netherlands tomorrow afternoon. We're all quite proud of her.
The Thai educational system - with all its faults - works very well for some.
My wife's elder daughters are both CMU Graduates and have done very well both here and abroad. Our daughter went to school in Australia for a while and we were quite happy with her schools and the results. However, when we came back to CNX and she re-entered the Thai School System, we discovered that her school life in Australia was more like "Play School." Bottom line..... Don't "knock" the Thai Education system!!
It seems to me that public education worldwide leaves a lot to be desired.
But that's not the voice of experience speaking - I quit school at fifteen to work on construction jobs in the West Indies for a year, then went to the Art Students League of New York until I was twenty. After that, trying to make a living as an artist while knocking around the world - and being knocked around by it.
I first came to Chiang Mai in 1978 and have called it home ever since.
No regrets.
-
- Popular Post
- Popular Post
I have two daughters who both graduated from CMU. I don't know to what extent they participated in undergaduate silliness, but even if they joined in with alacrity it didn't leave any lasting psychological scars.
My eldest went on to get a masters degree in International Law from Chulalongkorn, and a subsequent appointment to a government ministry. She was recently chosen to represent Thailand at this summers UN International Law Fellowship program at the Hague. She leaves for the Netherlands tomorrow afternoon. We're all quite proud of her.
The Thai educational system - with all its faults - works very well for some.
-
5
-
The address looks like jipata...if so then I second that having ordered a lot of embroidered tee shirts myself. About 110bt for quality cotton plus 30bt for logo Upto 100 wide.
Expect to pay more for "pissheads on tour I need a xxore Thailand 2013"
It is Jipata. Probably the best place in Chiang Mai to have them done. High quality work. Honest and efficient people.
And if he goes in sober and polite he won't get the "pissheads on tour" price.
-
Quite a few places in Chiang Mai print and embroider T-shirts.
For really good quality try:
Chiang Mai Thanakorn
8 Srimangklachan Rd., Soi 9, T. Suthep. A. Muang
Tel. 053-400847-9
or:
All Smile
258-260 Mu 5, C.M.-Lampang, Rt.11 Rd., T. Patan, A. Muang
Tel. 053-872539-40
Choke dee.
-
Chiang Mai farangs - renewed contact in the early 19th century.
Events in Burma during this period had a direct impact on Chiang Mai and the Northern Thai States. Those events can be summarized as follows:
Since the end of the 18th century British interests in Burma had been directly linked with security along British India's eastern borders.
The first official mission to Ava in 1795, led by Captain Michael Symes, had considered prospects for establishing a British presence in Burma. Apart from commercial issues, the mission's main objective was to prevent a Franco-Burmese alliance.
Symes reported: "A positive, and to us a very detrimental alliance between the Burmese and the French has been prevented and French influence, if not eradicated, has at least been considerably diminished and I am decidedly of opinion that a paramount influence in the government and administration of Ava, obtain it how we may, is now become necessary to the interest and security of the British possessions in the East."
That opportunity arose in 1824, when war broke out between Britain and Burma. In the peace treaty of Yandabo [1826] the Burmese had to acknowledge defeat and ceded two extensive coastal regions to Britain: Arakan in the west and Tenasserim in the east, where the British established the administrative center of the province in Moulmein at the mouth of the Salween River. British possessions now bordered most of the long western edges of the Thai-speaking world.
Encircled by the British from the west and south, Burma no longer constituted a serious threat to Siamese security. In the north, Tenasserim shared a common border with the principality of Chiang Mai, stretching along the Salween River. For the first time in its history Siam and her northern vassal states, forming the historical region of Lanna Thai, were directly confronted with a western colonial power as an immediate neighbour.
The British wanted to build a railway from their possessions in Burma to Southern China where a lucrative market for their manufactured goods was anticipated; and as a means of transporting raw materials - mainly teakwood - to their newly acquired port of Moulmein. The direct route north was considered, then rejected because of the rugged terrain. Alternate routes passing through Lanna Thai, taking advantage of mountain passes and river valleys were proposed and some were even surveyed. This led to diplomatic contact with the Chaos of Chiang Mai and other semi-autonomous principalities in what is today Northern Thailand and the Burmese Shan States.
The British presence in Moulmein increased trade to Chiang Mai on the age-old route via Mae Sariang, and made farangs an influence in the affairs of the city that has continued ever since.
Trade relations with what was soon to become British Burma eventually led to the establishment of a British Consulate with an extra-territorial court in Chiang Mai in 1883. It was housed in a teak building that survives to this day, albeit in a lamentable state of disrepair. But in earlier times when it was surrounded by well-tended gardens and fruit trees it must have been a lovely sight in its location on the Ping River; replete with a statue of Queen Victoria [now at the Foreign Cemetary] gracing its front lawn.
American Protestant Missionaries, beginning with the arrival of the Rev. Daniel McGilvary and his wife in 1867, were also active in formenting the dramatic changes that were about to take place.
The missionaries had a considerable effect upon the lives of the people because they brought modern scientific knowledge with them. They also brought a printing press and set up books and papers in the Kahm Muang alphabet. But they were not successful in obtaining many converts. Buddhism is too deeply ingrained in the people. King Mongkut's astute comment on the Christian religion was: "What you tell them to do is excellent. What you tell them to believe is foolish."
The combined influence of the British diplomatic and commercial presence and the American Protestant Missionaries in the mid-19th century undermined the power of the aristocratic families of Chiang Mai, the Chaos of the Kawila Dynasty.
A Siamese royal commisioner was appointed to reside in Chiang Mai in 1874 to arbitrate the continual legal disputes between the ever-increasing number of farangs and the autocratic regime of Chao Intanon.
1874 marks the end of an era of independence that began with Thip Chang, founder of the Kawila Dynasty that drove the Burmese out of Lanna Thai.
In my next post I would like to look at some individual farangs and the roles they played, and perhaps shed some light on the overall history of Chiang Mai during this eventful period.
To be continued.....
-
Your post is full of interesting information about Chiang Mai.
You didn't dumb-it-down but at the same time you kept it concise.
That said, I must point out one glaring omission, and that is the abandonment of Chiang Mai in the late 18th century - 1770s to 1790s, or whenever it was.
Surely that deserves mention in even an outline of the city's history during that period.
Can you comment?
Dumb-it-down for Thai Visa members? Never!
I did indeed omit to mention that Chiang Mai was abandoned between 1775 and 1797.
But to what extent was it abandoned? This is a vexed question among historians.
The Chiang Mai Chronicle says: "At that time Chiang Mai was abandoned and overgrown with weeds, bushes, and vines. It was a place for rhinoceros and elephants and tigers and bears and there were few people." [Wyatt / Wichienkeeo translation. 1995].
Hans Penth [A Brief History of Lanna. 1994] glosses it as: "For military reasons, but also because the city had suffered much physical damage and a serious loss of population along with a loss of food supply, the royal court, between 1775 and 1797 lived in a camp near Pa Sang, south of Lamphun. During that time Chiang Mai was nearly deserted. After King Kawila had ceremoniously re-entered the city on Thursday, 9 March 1797, Chiang Mai received new fortifications; what is left of them at present dates from that period around 1800."
My own opinion - for what it's worth - is that the city was never totally abandoned. Even if all social structures and institutions broke down and the place became a haunt of "wild beasts" - both two and four-legged.
There was just too much there; even if it was in ruins. The number of temples and sacred sites would make it almost a thebaid to rival Sagaing and Pagan. Even without an organized Sangha there must have been devotees of one type or another.
And a breakdown of civil society would embolden treasure-hunters.
I think there were always people in Chiang Mai; nevertheless I agree with you that the period does deserve mention. So excuse the omission.
-
Sorry a bit of a tangent - but the mention of King of Lampang , made me think of Luang Phor Kasem.
He was a very well respected monk who lived much of the time at a cemetery, if I remember correctly.
He was a direct descendant of the Lampang royal family.
Does anyone know the exact lineage?
http://www.buddhism-amulet.com/product.detail_25544_en_3056702
There is a genealogical chart of the Lampang Royal Family in Susan Conway's beautifully illustrated book, Silken Threads Lacquer Thrones - La Na Court Textiles [River Books. 2002].
It shows they were part of the Kawila clan, the Trakun Chao Jet Ton, whose founder was Thip Chang.
The last Lampang prince died in 1922 leaving an issue of eleven children, so his descendents must be numerous.
What the connection is to Luang Phor Kasem I don't know, but he may very well have been one of them.
Choke dee.
-
Thank you. Interesting reading and I am looking forward to your next instalment.
And thank you for the encouragement.
-
Chiang Mai at the time of the Richardson and McLeod diplomatic and commercial missions to the Northern Thai states.
For two centuries following the visits of Ralph Fitch and Thomas Samuel in 1587 and 1613 respectively, no farang is reported to have visited Chiang Mai. Both western and indigenous sources are silent about Northern Thai contacts with Europeans until the early 19th century.
The liberation of Lanna Thai from Burmese rule was a long struggle that dragged on for almost thirty years, devastating and depopulating large areas of the north. It started with an uprising in the south, culminating in the recapture of Chiang Mai in 1775 by Lanna and Siamese troops, and ended after several setbacks in 1804 with the conquest of Chiang Saen on the upper Mekong, which the Burmese had fortified as their main power-base in the region after they lost Chiang Mai.
In 1802, Kawila, ruler of Chiang Mai, travelled to Bangkok where King Rama I bestowed upon him the title Chao Prathetsarat, accepting him as a high-ranking vassal. The King acknowledged the supremacy of Chiang Mai over the formerly separate principalities of Lampang and Lamphun. Like Chiang Mai, the latter two vassal states were ruled by members of the Kawila clan.
The founder of the clan was Thip Chang, a commoner who expelled the despotic ruler of Lampang in 1732. He did so with broad popular support and moral encouragement by the local Buddhist Sangha. He ascended the throne under the name Phana Sulawaluchai [r. 1732-59]. His son Chai Kaeo [r. 1759-74] was instrumental in organizing armed resistance to the Burmese after 1770. His eldest son Kawila [b. 1742] helped his father in day-to-day administration, proved to be an able military commander, and finally played a crucial role in defeating the Burmese at Chiang Mai.
From 1775 on, Kawila and his six brothers dominated politics in Chiang Mai, Lamphun, and Lampang. Throughout the 19th century all leading administrative posts in these three closely allied principalities were held by the seven brothers and their offspring. People in the north called this dynasty Trakun Chao Jet Ton, the family of the seven lords.
Against this background, renewed contact with farangs was made in the early 19th century.
Dr David Richardson and Captain William McLeod were the first British and Europeans to reopen channels of communication with Chiang Mai. Their journeys overland from Moulmein to Chiang Mai and other Northern Thai states occured at a time when the region was recovering economically and socially from the destructive wars with the Burmese that had ended a generation earlier. Although all five Lanna principalities - Chiang Mai, Lamphun, Lampang, Phrae, and Nan - recognized Siamese suzerainty, the actual influence of Bangkok in the north was limited. The two diplomats from British-held Moulmein therefore became witnesses of a rather unique historical situation. During this time the Lanna princes still acted as quasi-independent rulers preserving much of the traditional political and social system. Only in the sphere of foreign policy and in military matters did they acknowledge the supremacy of the Chakri Kings in Bangkok.
The weakness of Siamese influence during this period is reflected in the rare mention of Lanna in contemporary Siamese government reports. The wealth of information provided by the journals of Richardson and McLeod therefore helps to fill the gap of knowledge with first-hand accounts on society, economy, population, and politics of the region visited by them.
The early years of western contact with Chiang Mai - 16th to 18th centuries - are characterized by a paucity of historical documents on the subject; but beginning in the early 19th century it becomes a veritable tsunami. I'm trying to ride it without being overwhelmed by it.
The Richardson and McLeod journals mark the beginning of a very eventful and well-documented period in Northern Thai history when farangs, particularly British, French, and American nationals were involved in shaping events.
In my next post I will try to summarize that involvement through the reign of King Chulalongkorn, Rama V, who unified the country and brought it into the modern era.
To be continued.....
-
Your real name isn't Fidel Castro, is it?
-
Thanks for the reference. It's the first time I've heard of the book, although the name Tim Slessor sounds vaguely familiar.Look for 'First Overland' by Tim Slessor.
They made the trip long before the hippies were even thought of.
There is also a lot of film from the trip but the BBC seem really reluctant to release it even after very generous offers have been made.
I would very much like to know more about it. I make a distinction between road trips and expeditions. What category does his fall into? And when did it take place?
Certainly the omnipresent weirdnesses common to travel in Central Asia would be equal to both. But expeditions need logistic arrangements ; the bribing of warlords for safe passage, etc., that road trips just don't require.
I'm sure you're aware that there were many expeditions in Central and East Asia in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but they couldn't be called road trips by any stretch of the imagination.
The post WWII era saw a chance not seen since Kublai Khan when unimpeded travel was possible between Eastern Europe and the China Sea; a chance that the Polos so famously took advantage of, as did so many young people of my generation later in the '60s and '70s.
I've always assumed that Boris of Katmandu was the first in 1957 to take the opportunity of this new freedom of travel and do it as a road trip.
But if I were to learn otherwise I would be much obliged for the new information.
What's different about Chiang Mai?
in Chiang Mai
Posted
That's new to me. I'd be interested in checking out any references to a pre-Vietnam War Australian presence in Pattaya.
As I mentioned, my own experience only goes back to 1978. But before that, I had friends who were stationed at U-Tapao and according to them, Pattaya was a fishing village in a beautiful location. No facilities, just a few bamboo restaurants, until things started to change in the mid-'70's.
During the Vietnam War the R&R scene was in Bangkok.