CMHomeboy78

Your post is full of interesting information about Chiang Mai.

You didn't dumb-it-down but at the same time you kept it concise.

That said, I must point out one glaring omission, and that is the abandonment of Chiang Mai in the late 18th century - 1770s to 1790s, or whenever it was.

Surely that deserves mention in even an outline of the city's history during that period.

Can you comment?

Dumb-it-down for Thai Visa members? Never!

I did indeed omit to mention that Chiang Mai was abandoned between 1775 and 1797.

But to what extent was it abandoned? This is a vexed question among historians.

The Chiang Mai Chronicle says: "At that time Chiang Mai was abandoned and overgrown with weeds, bushes, and vines. It was a place for rhinoceros and elephants and tigers and bears and there were few people." [Wyatt / Wichienkeeo translation. 1995].

Hans Penth [A Brief History of Lanna. 1994] glosses it as: "For military reasons, but also because the city had suffered much physical damage and a serious loss of population along with a loss of food supply, the royal court, between 1775 and 1797 lived in a camp near Pa Sang, south of Lamphun. During that time Chiang Mai was nearly deserted. After King Kawila had ceremoniously re-entered the city on Thursday, 9 March 1797, Chiang Mai received new fortifications; what is left of them at present dates from that period around 1800."

My own opinion - for what it's worth - is that the city was never totally abandoned. Even if all social structures and institutions broke down and the place became a haunt of "wild beasts" - both two and four-legged.

There was just too much there; even if it was in ruins. The number of temples and sacred sites would make it almost a thebaid to rival Sagaing and Pagan. Even without an organized Sangha there must have been devotees of one type or another.

And a breakdown of civil society would embolden treasure-hunters.

I think there were always people in Chiang Mai; nevertheless I agree with you that the period does deserve mention. So excuse the omission.

Sorry a bit of a tangent - but the mention of King of Lampang , made me think of Luang Phor Kasem.

He was a very well respected monk who lived much of the time at a cemetery, if I remember correctly.

He was a direct descendant of the Lampang royal family.

Does anyone know the exact lineage?

http://www.buddhism-amulet.com/product.detail_25544_en_3056702

There is a genealogical chart of the Lampang Royal Family in Susan Conway's beautifully illustrated book, Silken Threads Lacquer Thrones - La Na Court Textiles [River Books. 2002].

It shows they were part of the Kawila clan, the Trakun Chao Jet Ton, whose founder was Thip Chang.

The last Lampang prince died in 1922 leaving an issue of eleven children, so his descendents must be numerous.

What the connection is to Luang Phor Kasem I don't know, but he may very well have been one of them.

Choke dee.

Thank you. Interesting reading and I am looking forward to your next instalment.

And thank you for the encouragement.

Chiang Mai at the time of the Richardson and McLeod diplomatic and commercial missions to the Northern Thai states.

For two centuries following the visits of Ralph Fitch and Thomas Samuel in 1587 and 1613 respectively, no farang is reported to have visited Chiang Mai. Both western and indigenous sources are silent about Northern Thai contacts with Europeans until the early 19th century.

The liberation of Lanna Thai from Burmese rule was a long struggle that dragged on for almost thirty years, devastating and depopulating large areas of the north. It started with an uprising in the south, culminating in the recapture of Chiang Mai in 1775 by Lanna and Siamese troops, and ended after several setbacks in 1804 with the conquest of Chiang Saen on the upper Mekong, which the Burmese had fortified as their main power-base in the region after they lost Chiang Mai.

In 1802, Kawila, ruler of Chiang Mai, travelled to Bangkok where King Rama I bestowed upon him the title Chao Prathetsarat, accepting him as a high-ranking vassal. The King acknowledged the supremacy of Chiang Mai over the formerly separate principalities of Lampang and Lamphun. Like Chiang Mai, the latter two vassal states were ruled by members of the Kawila clan.

The founder of the clan was Thip Chang, a commoner who expelled the despotic ruler of Lampang in 1732. He did so with broad popular support and moral encouragement by the local Buddhist Sangha. He ascended the throne under the name Phana Sulawaluchai [r. 1732-59]. His son Chai Kaeo [r. 1759-74] was instrumental in organizing armed resistance to the Burmese after 1770. His eldest son Kawila [b. 1742] helped his father in day-to-day administration, proved to be an able military commander, and finally played a crucial role in defeating the Burmese at Chiang Mai.

From 1775 on, Kawila and his six brothers dominated politics in Chiang Mai, Lamphun, and Lampang. Throughout the 19th century all leading administrative posts in these three closely allied principalities were held by the seven brothers and their offspring. People in the north called this dynasty Trakun Chao Jet Ton, the family of the seven lords.

Against this background, renewed contact with farangs was made in the early 19th century.

Dr David Richardson and Captain William McLeod were the first British and Europeans to reopen channels of communication with Chiang Mai. Their journeys overland from Moulmein to Chiang Mai and other Northern Thai states occured at a time when the region was recovering economically and socially from the destructive wars with the Burmese that had ended a generation earlier. Although all five Lanna principalities - Chiang Mai, Lamphun, Lampang, Phrae, and Nan - recognized Siamese suzerainty, the actual influence of Bangkok in the north was limited. The two diplomats from British-held Moulmein therefore became witnesses of a rather unique historical situation. During this time the Lanna princes still acted as quasi-independent rulers preserving much of the traditional political and social system. Only in the sphere of foreign policy and in military matters did they acknowledge the supremacy of the Chakri Kings in Bangkok.

The weakness of Siamese influence during this period is reflected in the rare mention of Lanna in contemporary Siamese government reports. The wealth of information provided by the journals of Richardson and McLeod therefore helps to fill the gap of knowledge with first-hand accounts on society, economy, population, and politics of the region visited by them.

The early years of western contact with Chiang Mai - 16th to 18th centuries - are characterized by a paucity of historical documents on the subject; but beginning in the early 19th century it becomes a veritable tsunami. I'm trying to ride it without being overwhelmed by it.

The Richardson and McLeod journals mark the beginning of a very eventful and well-documented period in Northern Thai history when farangs, particularly British, French, and American nationals were involved in shaping events.

In my next post I will try to summarize that involvement through the reign of King Chulalongkorn, Rama V, who unified the country and brought it into the modern era.

To be continued.....

Your real name isn't Fidel Castro, is it?

Look for 'First Overland' by Tim Slessor.

They made the trip long before the hippies were even thought of.

There is also a lot of film from the trip but the BBC seem really reluctant to release it even after very generous offers have been made.

I would very much like to know more about it. I make a distinction between road trips and expeditions. What category does his fall into? And when did it take place?

Certainly the omnipresent weirdnesses common to travel in Central Asia would be equal to both. But expeditions need logistic arrangements ; the bribing of warlords for safe passage, etc., that road trips just don't require.

I'm sure you're aware that there were many expeditions in Central and East Asia in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but they couldn't be called road trips by any stretch of the imagination.

The post WWII era saw a chance not seen since Kublai Khan when unimpeded travel was possible between Eastern Europe and the China Sea; a chance that the Polos so famously took advantage of, as did so many young people of my generation later in the '60s and '70s.

I've always assumed that Boris of Katmandu was the first in 1957 to take the opportunity of this new freedom of travel and do it as a road trip.

But if I were to learn otherwise I would be much obliged for the new information.

A bibliography of the Hippie Trail would be of interest to many.

Can anyone add to this short list?

Tiger for Breakfast.

Michel Peissel.

London 1966.

My copy is a cheap Indian reprint from 1987.

A biography of Boris Lissanevitch - Boris of Katmandu. White Russian. Dancer with Diaghilev's Ballet Russe in Paris during the 1920s.

Then in East Asia, involved in all kinds of things until WWII when he opened the famous [infamous] 300 Club in Calcutta.

After the war his connections with the Ranas in Nepal led to his becoming the founder of the legendary Royal Hotel in Katmandu.

He drove from London to Istanbul to Katmandu in 1957. The first, as far as I know, to make the trip by road.

Midnight Express.

Billy Hayes.

New York 1977.

It was made into an excellent movie, but the book was even better.

Not about a trip on the Hippie Trail but set in Istanbul.

A very good comparison of the movie with the book can be found on Wikipedia.

Indian Journals.

Allen Ginsberg.

Grove 1970

Like Midnight Express, not a trip on the Hippie Trail but some very interesting high times in India 1962-63 when the Beats were turning into the Hippies.

The Great Railway Bazaar.

Paul Theroux.

Houghton Mifflin 1975.

Reprinted many times.

London to India and beyond. Mostly by rail. Excellent book. I reread it recently and enjoyed it as much as the first time.

It's too bad that more hasn't been written about the Hippie Trail.

In many ways it was like going back to biblical times.

A truly unforgettable experience.

Charles Sobhraj

was probably the biggest danger when I was here....so non Thais have always been a problem hee.

Charles Sobhraj's exploits on the Hippie Trail and later in Bangkok, based at the Malaysia Hotel and Kanit House, Soi Saladang are a fascinating story.

Well told by Richard Neville and Julie Clarke in their book, The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj.

As far as I know he's still in jail in Katmandu, doing time for one of the dozens of killings he's been suspected of.

His activities in Bangkok are covered extensively in the 1979 Neville/Clarke book. They had access to primary sources; people who knew him.

In particular the young French couple Nadine and Remy Gires who were very close to him in the mid '70s when they had apartments in Kanit House.

The book is especially interesting because it details the case made against Sobhraj for multiple murders in Thailand by Herman Knippenberg, then Third Secretary at the Royal Netherlands Embassy.

He began by investigating the disappearance of a Dutch couple whose burned bodies were later found near Pattaya.

With the help of the Gires and others, Knippenberg was able to present evidence to the Keystone Kops - excuse me, i mean the Thai Police, that led to arrest warrants being issued for several murders.

But by that time Sobhraj had fled to India - only to be arrested there in 1976 for other killings.

His 1986 escape from Tihar Prison in Delhi and rearrest soon after in Goa was thought to be an attempt to extend his jail time in India until a 20 year statute of limitations expired on an international warrant for his arrest in Thailand.

Fascinating stuff......here's the wiki link to Pattaya based serial killer Sobhraj

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sobhraj

A quote from the link..............

" finally (and rather boldly) returned to Bangkok, although he knew he was being pursued by authorities there. The clan were interrogated by Thai policemen in connection with the murders, but let off the hook, shockingly because authorities feared that the negative publicity accompanying a murder trial would harm the country's tourist trade. "

There's nothing new under the Sun eh??

Charles Sobhraj is well worth a topic of his own.

Although I don't think there are many people who could contribute to it with first-hand experience.

Those who were intimate with him very often didn't live to tell the tale.

All I know about him is what I read and what I've been told.

The reference to Sobhraj being "Pattaya based" is I believe, incorrect.

Pattaya was on the way to Chantaburi where he would take prospective customers - and victims - to buy gemstones.

No doubt he often visited the beautiful beach that I remember from the late '70s.

But I don't think he was ever based there. I may be wrong; and if so, I would like to know more about his life there.

When I first started going to Pattaya the over-development that was to pollute and destroy it by the mid '80s was just beginning.

There was the Beach Road with sois off of it and that was about it. A lot of small hotels and some very good restaurants and bars, mostly run by ex-Airforce guys from U-Tapao and their Thai families. John's Diner was especially good.

Charles Sobhraj and his friends would have had a swim and a meal then kept going.

Charles Sobhraj

was probably the biggest danger when I was here....so non Thais have always been a problem hee.

Charles Sobhraj's exploits on the Hippie Trail and later in Bangkok, based at the Malaysia Hotel and Kanit House, Soi Saladang are a fascinating story.

Well told by Richard Neville and Julie Clarke in their book, The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj.

As far as I know he's still in jail in Katmandu, doing time for one of the dozens of killings he's been suspected of.

His activities in Bangkok are covered extensively in the 1979 Neville/Clarke book. They had access to primary sources; people who knew him.

In particular the young French couple Nadine and Remy Gires who were very close to him in the mid '70s when they had apartments in Kanit House.

The book is especially interesting because it details the case made against Sobhraj for multiple murders in Thailand by Herman Knippenberg, then Third Secretary at the Royal Netherlands Embassy.

He began by investigating the disappearance of a Dutch couple whose burned bodies were later found near Pattaya.

With the help of the Gires and others, Knippenberg was able to present evidence to the Keystone Kops - excuse me, i mean the Thai Police, that led to arrest warrants being issued for several murders.

But by that time Sobhraj had fled to India - only to be arrested there in 1976 for other killings.

His 1986 escape from Tihar Prison in Delhi and rearrest soon after in Goa was thought to be an attempt to extend his jail time in India until a 20 year statute of limitations expired on an international warrant for his arrest in Thailand.

I was at the Malasia Hotel at the time...and think I knew one of the victims slightly.

Did you know Ajay Chowdury by any chance? He was Sobhraj's right-hand man; staying at the Malaysia to steer marks to Kanit House.

I don't think he's ever been caught.

I didn't get to Bangkok until October '78 so I missed the party.

Charles Sobhraj

was probably the biggest danger when I was here....so non Thais have always been a problem hee.

Charles Sobhraj's exploits on the Hippie Trail and later in Bangkok, based at the Malaysia Hotel and Kanit House, Soi Saladang are a fascinating story.

Well told by Richard Neville and Julie Clarke in their book, The Life and Crimes of Charles Sobhraj.

As far as I know he's still in jail in Katmandu, doing time for one of the dozens of killings he's been suspected of.

His activities in Bangkok are covered extensively in the 1979 Neville/Clarke book. They had access to primary sources; people who knew him.

In particular the young French couple Nadine and Remy Gires who were very close to him in the mid '70s when they had apartments in Kanit House.

The book is especially interesting because it details the case made against Sobhraj for multiple murders in Thailand by Herman Knippenberg, then Third Secretary at the Royal Netherlands Embassy.

He began by investigating the disappearance of a Dutch couple whose burned bodies were later found near Pattaya.

With the help of the Gires and others, Knippenberg was able to present evidence to the Keystone Kops - excuse me, i mean the Thai Police, that led to arrest warrants being issued for several murders.

But by that time Sobhraj had fled to India - only to be arrested there in 1976 for other killings.

His 1986 escape from Tihar Prison in Delhi and rearrest soon after in Goa was thought to be an attempt to extend his jail time in India until a 20 year statute of limitations expired on an international warrant for his arrest in Thailand.

First of all, let's define the term.

The Hippie Trail was the road from Istambul to Katmandu.

It was first done as a road trip in 1957 by Boris Lissanevitch - the legendary Boris of Katmandu.

Before that, it was only the likes of Sven Hedin and Marc Aurel Stein who were able to mount full-scale expeditions who could attempt it.

By the time I did it in 1976 with a friend riding a BMW 650 it was a route well travelled.

Paul Theroux's 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar had popularized it to the extent that there were areas in all the cities and larger towns that catered to our wants and needs. Sultan Amet; Chicken Street; Freak Street and many more. Places like that eventually became models for the tourist ghettoes that we see everywhere today.

Katmandu was the end of the rainbow, but that scene had changed dramatically with the death in 1972 of old King Mahendra and the accession of the Crown Prince Birendra.

The son of an oriental despot with a Harvard education - you can just imagine the kulturkamph that must have been going on inside his head. And it manifested itself in some bizarre actions as soon as he ascended the throne.

Ganga was outlawed; the inspiration for much of their culture from the psychedelic Newar woodcarvings to the little impromptu evening concerts at Hindu shrines [when the coughing stops, the music starts]. And the draconian tightening of visa regulations making long stays too expensive.

The hippies fit right in. They were just like another Asiatic ethnic group or tribe. Their flamboyant dress and love of jewelery; their veneration for the Sacred Herb; their live and let live way of life that didn't pose a threat to anybody except maybe some of their tightass compatriots back home.

And then in 1978 it really ended with the Iranian Revolution and the Russian invasion of Afganistan the following year.

The Russians, with their predessors the British in mind, were determined to prove true Marx's old maxim that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.

The Russian tragedy has been followed by the American farce, thus bringing it full-circle.

The trip from Istambul to Katmandu was a life-changing experience for almost all of us who did it.

It led me on to Thailand and to eventually becoming the head of a household here and part of an extended Thai family.

That's been a trip in itself, but nothing like the Hippie Trail.

I think you are narrowing the scope of the Hippy Trail more than you should. It really was like the Silk Road...a collection of trails spreading from the East of Asia to the West of Europe. Through its existance routes changed many times Burma opened and shut. Pakistan and India fought and opened and shut borders. Iran remained consistantly open though the American Government did not like its citizens going through there. Afganistan was just one part of the puzzle.

No, I disagree with you. I haven't narrowed the scope at all.

The definition of the Hippy Trail as the road between Istanbul and Katmandu is accurate.

Just like the high road from London to Edinburgh is simply that. It's not the road to Wigan Pier or the Yellowbrick Road to the Emerald City of Oz.

You can expand the meaning of anything until it becomes fuzzy and indistinct; like The Summer of Love or The Woodstock Generation or Haight-Ashbury or Carnaby Street as cultural concepts.

But instead of giving them more meaning, you give them less. You create fantasy.

It's the people who were in San Francisco in the summer of '68, or ankle-deep in mud on Yasgur's Farm the following year, or who made the scene in London in those days who know what the reality was.

For sure, the Hippie Trail was a lot more than a road. But how much more, and in exactly what ways depended on the individual who experienced it.

I've never seen world-class wood carving tools for sale in Chiang Mai.

Forget the art stores.

The best bet is locally made hand-forged tools.

The shop referred to in the previous post is Lahn Suko - sign in Thai - and as he says, on Chang Moi, north side near the intersection with Chang Moi Kao and up a little towards the moat.

Otherwise, you might ask the woodcarvers in Bo Sang and Ban Tawai where they get their tools. But I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't tell you Lahn Suko. I think it's the only place that sells them in Chiang Mai.

Choke Dee

Down and out farangs have always been part of the scene here.

Percentage-wise it seemed there were more in the '70s than there are now; and probably more yet in colonial times in East Asia as a whole.

Somerset Maugham encountered so many on his travels in the '20s and '30s that they provided material for some of his best short stories.

The concluding part of his novel, The Gentleman in the Parlour deals with an Englishman who was for over twenty years a tide-waiter with the Hong Kong customs inspecting small boats for opium and other contraband.

His dream was to return to England and play the toff with the money he had made from bribes. On his arrival in London he fell sick from the climate and everything else went wrong as well.

Within six months he had shot his load and decided to return to Hong Kong. He never got farther than Haiphong where he led a low-rent existence with a local woman and her old crone of a mother who was a dab hand at preparing his opium pipe.

Maugham makes a good story out of it. Maybe it was based on one person, or a composite of more than one, or maybe all of us.

One time years ago... before the coup, but after the end of the easy, endless month-to-month Tachilek runs. Maybe 2004 or 2005. I'm also always dressed appropriately, polite, and speak proper Thai to them as I try to skate thru as "one of the good ones."

I've seen people get hassled there a few times over the years, but moreso because they had attitude, bad dress, or issues with altered passports or missing exit cards.

I also try to dress and act well. But I don't overdress. Just a clean polo shirt and chinos etc., and I'm polite but not obsequious.

That seems to work for me, and get me through.

Then I can resume my life here which is actually closer to rene's description of one of the "dodgy types who live on the shaky edge of poverty".

You wouldn't be interested in buying a bridge on the Ping River, would you?

On a recent visa-run to Tachilek while crossing back into Thailand I noticed a print-out above the little immigration window. It listed the amounts of money required to have on hand for the various types of visa.

Non-immigrant - what I had - was 30,000 baht.

Under the list on the same sheet of paper someone had written in ballpoint pen "It doesn't matter" in a small spidery script.

I was strongly tempted to write a rejoinder underneath. Something along the lines of "Don't be too sure" or "Be prepared to flash it".

But I refrained; for fear of being caught on Candid Camera or in some other way. The last thing I need is a hassle with immigration cops.

My own experience with Thai border crossings, and I have had many many, is that I was only asked to show money once, and it was so long ago that I can't clearly remember where it was. Tachilek I think.

Anyway, after being asked how much money I had, I extracted a wad of Benjamins from my money-belt. The dude just took a cursory glance at it - it could have been Monopoly money for all he knew - and that was that.

But just to be on the safe side I always carry what is needed - and more.

Has anyone out there heard the demand "Show me your money"?

Just curious...

while the topic at this site focuses more on Chiang Rai in some respects, it is about Lanna Kingdom (which includes Chiang Mai). Again, it is mainly from a thai perspective but does contain info of dealings with western traders and companies... check it out.. i have found it good reading

http://www.chiangrai...e/eng/40_11.htm

Full of interesting information about the teak trade and other topics that relate to Chiang Mai and Lanna Thai in general.

A valuable source for future reference.

Fascinating, thank you.

Is some text missing after 'Santa Fe' in this part?: 'In 1540 a Burmese invasion was repulsed with the aid of the Portugese who were rewarded with even more privileges, including the right to propagate their Santa Fe An invasion of Chiang Mai was undertaken in 1545 and it was on that occasion - most probably - that the city was first visited by Europeans. But no hard evidence survives, other than the chronicle of Mendez Pinto, a Portugese adventurer resident in Ayudhya at the time, who claimed to have been part of the campaign against Chiang Mai.'

And excuse me for any ambiguities in my post.

I'm a graphic artist not a writer; so I lose my footing on a slippery slope occasionally.

You refer to possible missing text after my reference to the defeat of a Burmese invasion headed for Ayudhya in 1540 and King P'rajai's 1545 invasion of Chiang Mai.

As far as I know, nothing of importance to Chiang Mai happened between those two events.

Incidentally, my reference to "Santa Fe" - not to insult your intelligence - meant "Holy Faith", not that elephants burial ground for old hippies in New Mexico.

Thanks again for your interest.

Nophaburi Srinakhonping Chiangmai, to give the city it's full, formal name was founded in 1296 by King Mengrai

The historians W.A.R. Wood, Camille Notton, Hans Penth, David Wyatt, and more recently Andrew Forbes have all made valuable contributions to Chiang Mai studies that are greatly appreciated by those of us who love the city and what remains of the traditional life and culture of the Kohn Muang who inhabit it.

My topic is a summary of what I know about noteworthy farangs who have had some relation to Chiang Mai in the past.

Additional information would be welcome as well as corrections to any possible errors of my own.

Suvarna-Bhumi - in many variations of spelling - meaning Land of Gold, was known by name to the Romans and mentioned by Pliny and Ptolemy among others.

Exactly where in Southeast Asia it was and how knowlege of it reached the west are unknown. But somebody must have travelled here, or had contact with others who did.

Any relationship with Chiang Mai is impossible because of the dates; nevertheless conjectures have been made.

In the realm of documented fact we can begin with Portugese diplomatic missions and mercenary soldiers serving in the armies of early 16th Century Ayudhya and engaged in campaigns against Chiang Mai.

The earliest recorded diplomatic contact with Europeans was by Duarte Fernandez in 1511.

Sent as an envoy from Afonso d'Albuquerque, Viceroy of Portugese India [Goa]; then residing in the recently captured port of Malacca.

Fernandez was well received by King Rama T'ibodi II, and subsequent missions were sent in 1512 and 1516 which resulted in permission for the Portugese to reside and trade in Ayudhya, Mergui, Pattani and Nakhon Si Thammarat.

In 1518 King Rama T'ibodi reorganized his army which now included Portugese gunners and cannon founders. A book [now lost] on military tactics and fortification was issued for the edification of his officers.

At the time of King P'rajai's accession in 1536 the number of Portugese in Ayudhya had greatly increased.

In 1540 a Burmese invasion was repulsed with the aid of the Portugese who were rewarded with even more privileges, including the right to propagate their Santa Fe

An invasion of Chiang Mai was undertaken in 1545 and it was on that occasion - most probably - that the city was first visited by Europeans. But no hard evidence survives, other than the chronicle of Mendez Pinto, a Portugese adventurer resident in Ayudhya at the time, who claimed to have been part of the campaign against Chiang Mai.

Historians almost all discount that claim because of gross exaggerations, conflicting dates, and ignorance of important facts about the Princess Regent, Maha T'ewi of Chiang Mai.

Pinto's description of the war with Chiang Mai is thought to be made up from accounts given to him by compatriots who really did accompany the army. While he himself stayed in Ayudhya to keep the home-fires burning.

Regretably, none of them left any written accounts of what they saw in that city that had been independent and prosperous since it's founding over two hundred years before.

Ralph Fitch.

No historical records exist that mention visits to Chiang Mai until 1587 when the Englishman Ralph Fitch came overland from Pegu to "Jamahey" - variant spellings are numerous, some beginning with an "X" or "Z".

Fitch's remarkable travels as related in Purchas His Pilgrims and Hakluyt's Voyages and Discoveries are generally accepted as fact.

From England he went through Europe and the Middle East, then by ship from Basra to Goa where he was imprisoned by the Portugese as an heretic and probable spy for the government of their arch-enemy, the English Jezabel.

He was freed after about a year and continued his journey across India to Bengal, then took ship to Pegu where he attached himself to a Burmese army that besieged and entered Chiang Mai.

Fitch's life is a fascinating study and he can be regarded as the first farang on record to visit Chiang Mai.

His description of "property, riches and women, has a somewhat contemporary ring about it" according to Ian Bushell in a recent talk on local history. Maybe Chiang Mai hasn't changed that much after all.

Thomas Samuel.

Another Englishman; he was employed by the East India Company and based in Ayudhya.

He was sent to Chiang Mai in 1613 with a large consignment of cloth which he had partially sold when he was captured by another invading Burmese army.

Taken as a prisoner to Pegu, he died there shortly afterwards. Whether as a result of ill-treatment or natural causes is not known.

Samuel's fate and the problems caused by internal conflicts in the East India Company's Ayudhya establishment delayed efforts to open trade with Chiang Mai until the early 19th Century when British interest in mercantile connections revived; and with a view to gaining geopolitical advantages vis a vis the French who were spreading their influence throughout Indochina.

To the best of my knowlege there were no recorded contacts by Europeans with Chiang Mai in the 18th Century.

I hope to continue this topic with a look at the farangs who were part of the commercial, diplomatic and missionary presence that began when Chiang Mai was an independent northern capitol early in the 19th Century.

At that time it was nominally a vassal of Bangkok as a result of military treaties aimed at preventing another Burmese incursion

In fact it was ruled by it's Chaos, the aristocratic families of Chiang Mai.

The Chakri Kings were satisfied with various forms of token tribute and the occasional Chiang Mai Princess in exchange for non-interference. The Burmese threat was being neutralized because they were engaged in conflict with the British who were taking over their country piecemeal.

In the course of the 19th Century Chiang Mai's position changed dramatically with the American Protestant Missionaries and the British teak-wallahs playing key roles in the transition to complete dominance by the central government.

To be continued...

...Sporadic violence against foreigners, notably Chinese, continued throughout the 19th and into the early 20th Century...

Really this is standing history on its head. The Thais, uniquely in Southeast Asia, have made it their business to get on with Chinese migrants and to assimilate them wherever possible. Yes, I know about King Prajadhipok and his 'Jews of the Orient' pamphlet directed against the Chinese, but that was an exception. Generally speaking Thailand, with an ethnic Chinese population of around 13 per cent, has always had the best relationship with Overseas Chinese of any Southeast Asian country - as a consequence of which the percentage of luk jin or Thais of Chinese descent is around 13 percent, easily the highest in Southeast Asia (or, indeed, anywhere outside China and Singapore).

Just about everywhere else in Southeast Asia - Myanmar, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia - has massacred or expelled the Chinese from time to time. Not so the Thais, who uniquely (and wisely) prefer to intermarry with the Chinese.

Thank you for the civil and intelligent response to my post.

The yapping of soi dogs has made me almost deaf to the sound of a courteous voice.

But your contention that my claim that there was racially motivated violence against Chinese here is "standing history on its head" is simply not true. There was indeed violence, and it was documented.

It was small-scale and spontaneous, arising mostly from resentment over their sense of racial superiority and the economic advantages they soon gained as a result of their work-ethic.

That Thais "made it their business to get on with Chinese migrants and to assimilate them wherever possible" might apply to some idealistic intellectuals, but not to the Thais who worked sixteen hour days in Chinese households and shops.

My first Thai girlfriend was in an early marriage to a Chinese in Yaowarat where her mother-in-law treated her like a dog. A common occurrence, according to the working-class Thais among whom I lived in the late '70s.

Situations like that led to the killing and looting frequently reported in the Bangkok Recorder and other early news sources.

The sentiments expressed in King Prajadhipok's "Jews of the Orient" pamphlet may have been an "exception" among educated westernized Thais, but not among the ordinary people who had to deal with the Chinese on a daily basis.

Please excuse me for so bluntly contradicting you.

But the fact of the matter is that there was violence against Chinese in the 19th and into the early 20th Century.

It's frequency and severity can be debated but not the fact of it's existence; because it is recorded in diplomatic correspondence and the English language news sheets of old Bangkok.

As I said, I have great respect for your work and wish you continued success with it.

No one is sayong there has not been changes. You on the other hand are proclaiming them to be bad. My friend who has been coming here for over 50 years says yes there is changes so what.

Did you ever think it is you. Your attitude you berate the farongs as bringing unwanted change you can't get along well with the Thai Men but the Thai women you get along with fine. Could it be your attitude?

You say the Thais can only take so much change. You might want to tell them. Or get out in the land of the real. More than likely 95% of the vehicles and motor bikes on the road are Thai owned go to the mall's Look at the number of Thais there who can only take a certain amount of change. Go to a stand alone Rimping market see the Thai's there. And the ones who don't have the vehicles and don't go to the Farong places do you think they wouldn't if they could afford it.

I would suggest that you move to a far out village in Issan, There you will not have to put up with the Farongs just the Thai men. Besides if I remember correctly in another post you said you were leaving. Given your attitude might be a good idea.

I'm not thinking about leaving. I've been here too long and my roots go too deep.

My two girls are both doing very well. The eldest got her masters degree in International Law from Chulalongkorn two years ago. Shortly after that she was recruited by a government ministry where she recently qualified as a C-5 official at the age of 28. We're all very proud of her.

I consider myself blessed by God to have a healthy, happy family.

I wouldn't leave them for the world.

Since so few of the posts are of sufficient merit to deserve a reply, a collective response seems to be in order.

As when coming under attack by pygmies or Lilliputians the best tactic is probably a direct assault instead of confronting the little devils individually.

My topic was a deliberate provocation to think and hopefully react with some sort of intelligent response. But my plea for civil discourse went unheeded and the qualities that make so many farangs disliked and unwelcome in Chiang Mai prevailed.

That ill-mannered arrogance reminds me of the reasons I prefer to live among Thais. My 35 years of experience here includes the most intimate relationships imaginable with them.

Starting as soon as I arrived, with the girls as boyfriend, poo-uh chow and backdoor-johnny at different times. Then mellowing somewhat with age to become a faithful husband to my wife and a devoted father to my two beloved daughters.

My relations with Thai men have been more problematic.

One night long ago near Sattahip I faced the pistols of three armed robbers who stole my new Yahama Enduro.

I've had, and have, some friends among the men, but I like and admire Thai women much much more.

My interest in the art, culture and history of Northern Thailand has been an abiding love of mine since I first came here. As an artist myself, it has provided the inspiration for much of my own work.

To sum up, I consider myself knowledgeable about Thailand in general and Chiang Mai in particular.

The perspective with which I can view the changes that have taken place here during the past three decades allows me to make judgements based on personal experience rather than hearsay or the opinions of others.

While they're not always sound, at least they're based on something more solid than pure fantasy.

My happiness in living here among Thais and being part of an extended Thai family has kept me apart from the expat community and the problems faced by strangers in a strange land; cultural isolation; loneliness; where to get their favorite fizzy drinks, etc.

In recent years the number of farang who call Chiang Mai home for all or part of the year has exploded to the point where their presence is creating a situation that may have undesirable consequences for all of us.

We are not living among spineless people. A violent dislike of foreign dominance has been a constant trait of their character for hundreds of years. They are unlike their neighbors who succumbed to the British, the French, and the Dutch.

Thai history - ancient and modern - is full of unpleasant examples of what happens when guests settle down here and start acting as though they owned the place.

Following the death of King Narai in 1688 there were widespread massacres of Europeans who had established enclaves in Ayudhya, Lopburi and elsewhere.

Sporadic violence against foreigners, notably Chinese, continued throughout the 19th and into the early 20th Century.

The 1980's saw targeted strikes against the Jeen Haw in the North by the RTAF and Daw Chaw Daw commandos. Effectively neutralizing them.

Obviously, history won't repeat itself exactly; but ethnic and racial hatred once provoked, often takes on a life of it's own that can get ugly.

Thai hospitality has limits that shouldn't be pushed too far.

The encouragement of retirees to settle in Chiang Mai with special visas, housing estates etc. is a textbook example of the way so many Thais look for the short-term profit while ignoring the long-term costs.

Who will care for 70 or 80 year old people when they become sick and disabled?

Most of the farang who settled here a long time ago have families to take care of them.

Thais are justly famous for taking care of their own; and that would include a farang who could speak the language, raised children among them and showed some basic respect for their culture and religion.

What do the newcomers have? A mia-chow? Some recent Thai in-laws - parasites by any other name - who will bag-out as soon as their cash-cow stops producing.

Will the government here provide long-term care for farangs who are unable to care for themselves? I doubt it.

The Golden Years of retirement that never materialized in their own countries are even less likely to become a reality here.

Many of these people are old enough to remember the early years of the Castro regime in Cuba when posters went up in front of the old state-run airline reading: Yankee Go Home - via Cubana Airlines.

Couldn't happen here, could it?

No way Jose, we'd carpet-bomb them suckers back to the Stone Age.

In this case retirees becoming too sick or feeble to to care for themselves.

But let me take it a bit further if I may.

That concept could be applied to many things that come under the rubric of "progress" and "development" where greed is so often combined with stupidity to create man-made disasters.

Certainly the large and ever-increasing number of clueless farangs here is a disaster in the making.

But Chiang Mai has survived a lot in the past 700 years.

Burmese war-elephants leading the hordes of Ava and Pegu; the armies of 16th Century Ayudhya with their Portugese gunners who could breach the Kamphang Muang in a matter of hours; Bangkok Thais, first as invaders, then as uninvited guests who would be gone.

Now it's farangs. The problem in it's modern phase in Thailand as a whole started in the '60s and '70s with the GIs.

Physically they were, for the most part, excellent specimens of young manhood. Even the middle-aged officers were in good shape. Nothing wrong with them really except that, as the British said during WWII, they were "overfed, overpaid and over here".

Their marching-orders out of Thailand were written in the blood of Thammasat students.

Then came the international tourists - in their millions.

The sight of them scantily-clad on Thai beaches was enough to make you barf-up your som-tam.

And their quality slowly but steadily deteriorated over the years until it started to include the Russian Mafia, East European hookers, African scammers, low-rent Americans and the dregs of Europe.

Now another ingredient has been added to this stinking gumbo: old people on the cusp of infirmity.

This latest development may very well be the coup de grace for all of us...

Nophaburi Srinakhonping Chiangmai included.

This topic was guaranteed to make the greenhorns throw a hissy-fit about my nostalgia for the good ol', bad ol' days.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to be expected from people who - almost without exception - lack any first-hand knowlege of what life in Chiang Mai was like thirty or more years ago, and seem to resent the existence of those who do.

Petty nastiness was to be forseen. I won't be drawn into a cat-fight, and I can easily sidestep the ejaculations of venom.

So instead of the peevish one-liners, maybe you can come up with an intelligent response to some of the points I've made.

I would welcome that and will answer your challenge if I'm able.

Has Chiang Mai become the Florida of Asia?

Another elephants burial ground where the old tuskers come to die?

The city is now full of old geezers who have settled down here to lead lives of mindless conformity and quiet desperation just as they did in their own countries.

Most of these people have spent their lives as wage-slaves in mind-numbing jobs. It's doubtful they were even aware that Chiang Mai was on the map until they started to realize how ignorant they were of the wider world and began to travel with the aim of broadening their horizions.

But the fact is, it's too late for them. They should have started earlier and seen the world with young eyes. Then their experiences would have become part of their lives, part of their character.

But instead they drank the government Kool-Aid and became wards of a Nanny-State that promised to provide for all their wants and needs from cradle to grave - and did so with a measure of success - only failing to include hearts and minds in the bargain.

Now, like the Scarecrow and Tinwoodman they seek what they lack in the Emerald City.

They are at the gates of Chiang Mai in vast numbers. A gray horde.

What else attracts so many of them here? And this is the crux of my topic, and what I would like to have some opinions and insight on.

The following is my own take on the situation and what the possible reasons may be.

It would be tedious to list all the pros and cons of life in Thailand in general and Chiang Mai in particular.

A summing-up would probably rank Northern Thailand fairly high compared to most other places. That, combined with what they've heard about life here just a few decades ago and the remnants of faded glory that still remain from past ages constitute the positive side... Oh, and I almost forgot; it never snows. No danger of cardiac arrest while digging out the driveway Pops.

The negative forces pushing them here would be developments in their own countries.

The steady economic decline of the middle-class along with massive third-world immigration - and the plethora of problems that brings with it - surely explains why many of them leave.

The aggressive foreign policies of their governments that rain death and destruction on their self-created enemies and anyone else who gets in the way might prompt some of them to pack-up and go. But I don't think too many. Most of them don't seem to have the mentality to take a principled stand on anything.

Their standard of living is what matters most to them; and in Chiang Mai it can be considerably higher than where they came from. For now, anyway.

The overwhelming presence of these colorless people will dramatically change the way local Thais see us. The reputation of most farangs has always been somewhat raffish.

Long known as hard drinkers, stoners and cocksmen with money to burn. We lived and loved in Chiang Mai never thinking the end would come - not with a roar, but with a whimper - innundated by a human-wave of these old biddies.

As went Tombstone and Dodge City and other wild and wonderful places, so goes Chiang Mai to the tourists and sightseers like those that wander up Boothill among the graves wondering what the town below must have been like in it's glory days.

R.I.P. Chiang Mai