CMHomeboy78

^ Right, I know that. But the water first needs to figure out a way to get out of the river. At 2.8 meters that's not happening unless Mr. Newton revised some of his laws.

I don't think there will be flooding in or near Nong Hoi this year, unless something unusual happens, like several days of torrential rain or a sudden discharge from the Mae Taeng dam. That is what triggered the last flood.

The whole area could be protected simply by building a 2M high concrete floodwall from near Rimping Supermarket to the Mengrai Bridge. It's incredible that the local government has never done that. Maybe they are waiting for an initiative from Bangkok, but that will never come because the more water that floods and disperses elsewhere, the less comes down to them.

In venerable Thai fashion, the Army seeing dysfunction, should step in and build the wall. They have the manpower, and they are among the first to get their feet wet at Kawila.

Why would anywhere at all flood at 2.anything?

(As in actual parts of the city; Nong Hoi or anywhere else)

Because historically thats the level at which the river has flooded my back yard over the past years that I have been here.

And usually Nong Hoi , gets it a little before I do.

A bit of flash flooding from rain perhaps, but surely not from the river? That makes no sense; where would the water come from? It would have to burst the river banks somewhere.

And when it does come from the river, all hell breaks out here.

We had over a meter of water on our ground floor a few years ago.

We live near Wat Muang Guy on a soi across from the Sanam Golf. No flooding at all. I went out this morning but didn't notice the river being dangerously high.

When floods hit this area, the water comes from right across the road at the intersection of CM-Lamphun Rd. and Ratutit.

So far, so good.

According to a previous post on ThaiVisa there is a Thai word for boric acid - กรดบอริก" (kurot buric)

It's that discussion that gave me the idea to try boric acid as an insecticide. After several sleepless nights, hunting ants in my bed with my Kindle light I searched the forums for possible solutions. Here's the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/665024-where-can-i-buy-boric-acid-in-pattaya/?p=6792489&hl=%2Bboric+%2Bacid

But if you buy the powder at Union Science, you don't need the Thai translation.

Sorry to give what seemed like misinformation, but the Thai term you quote is a transliteration of "boric", and kurot is acid.

Not important really, the main thing is that we sock it to those ants!

What is Boric Acid in Thai ?

According to my Thai wife, there is no Thai word for boric acid. I also checked the So Sethaputra, English-Thai dictionary - one of the best - and boric acid was listed and defined, but as my wife said, no Thai word for it. So I guess they just call it boric acid, with maybe a slight difference in pronunciation.

I have heard that boric acid was a good ant killer before and I'm looking forward to trying it. Honey and bacon grease are sometimes recommended as well as sugar and water. I'll try them all and see what works best.

Kamthieng Market - mostly trees, flowers, etc. - also has several outlets selling hydroponic stuff.

They're located in the area of the market near Tesco Lotus.

Welcome to the forum... forgot my manners.

Kamthieng Market - mostly trees, flowers, etc. - also has several outlets selling hydroponic stuff.

They're located in the area of the market near Tesco Lotus.

Ban Sop Guy [sop pronounced Sohp], when I knew it some time ago was a little Thai village on the Mae Tahng River. I don't know what it's like now, but hopefully it hasn't changed too much.

To get there, head north on the road to Chiang Dao past the turn-off to Pai/Mae Hong Son, then turn left on the dirt road that follows the Mae Tahng. After about an hour on that road you'll come to Ban Sop Guy which is located on what is probably one of the most beautiful parts of the river,

The river at the village is quite shallow, but upstream a bit there are deep pools among the boulders that are good for swimming, and even diving off the rocks.

There are several hilltribe villages in the area, but no other Thai villages on the river until the old fortified town of Wiang Haeng up toward the Burmese border.

Happy trails!

that sounds pretty good. Any GPS coordinates?

I like the sketchy dangerous looking ones best

Sorry, no.

I'll send you directions after I eat dinner.

At Ban Sop Guy on the Mae Tahng River there was a bamboo bridge supported by two piers on footings of stone rubble in the river. Every rainy season the bridge was wiped out by logs and floating debris, then rebuilt when the rains ended.

In the late '90s a suspension bridge of wood slats about 2M wide on steel cables was built.

It's not the picturesque type of bridge you probably have in mind, but it is in a beautiful area... at least it was the last time I was there about ten years ago.

Got a Paasche VL when I was 16, used it for 35 years but gave it to my son when I moved here, wish I had it for my current project but I will check out the leads from you guys, thanks.

Hope you get what you want.

For general use, the airbrushes available here in Chiang Mai would probably be OK. But if you've used a Paasche for a long time you may be spoiled.

Another good place that I forgot to mention is the big shop, Udompon [sign in Thai] on Ratchiwithi, near the UN Irish.

The artstore Likisin on Sri Poom just around the corner from Sompet always has a couple, few, on display with small compressors. But I don't think the quality is top of the line. Years ago I brought a Paasche from the States, which I still use occasionally. Really good ones, if they are available here at all, and if that's what you want, are probably only to be had in Bangkok.

Choke dee.

"...and at times a pretty silk or gauze scarf cast carelessly over their bosom and one shoulder. Of late years, however, the missionaries have persuaded their female converts and the girls in their schools to wear a neat white jacket, and the custom is gradually spreading through the city and into the neighbouring villages."

Those damned missionaries!

Those 'damned missionaries' did the same everywhere they went..............Hawaii, north and south America, Philippines..............in the name of God.

They seem to have missed Pattaya, so far.

When missionaries are mentioned, the term "brainless bigot" springs to mind. So many of them are just that.

But when you look at Chiang Mai history in the mid and late 19th century you see that the American Protestant missionaries - along with the British teak wallahs - were the ones who changed things here.

They were not successful in obtaining many converts. Buddhism was too deeply ingrained in the people. But they had a considerable effect upon the lives of the Kohn Muang because they brought modern knowledge with them. Medical treatment, smallpox vaccination, and schools for young people, rich and poor.

They also brought a printing press and set up books and papers in the Lanna [Tua Muang] alphabet.

There are two sides to the coin.

"As regards the women, they are more active, more industrious, and more intelligent than the men."

Some things haven't changed then!

quite true, seems like farang perverts have been coming to Thailand since 1587.

...and they still think the water buffaloes are really sick.

I don't get your point.

"farang perverts" have always found Thailand congenial, for a number of reasons - few of which reflect favorably upon Thais.

But Grandjean's comment on what he saw as the superiority of Chiang Mai women doesn't imply perversion - either his or theirs.

You mention "1587"; the year of Ralph Fitch's arrival here. His bizarre fascination with penis balls, and the women who "...doe desire them", merely puts him in company with Marco Polo and other early travellers who took a great interest in all things sexual in the countries they visited.

That's how I see it.

Thanks for your interest.

Fascinating information about Chiang Mai.

Too bad there has been so little intelligent interest shown.

As artists [OK, craftspeople] ourselves, we can relate to your 1980 remembered story. It must have been a wonderful time to have been here. Sorry we missed it.

But Chiang Mai as it still is seems like a unique place if you can see past the concrete and glass and plastic, to what is left from the past.

So count us in with those who share your love for our city.

Thank you for your heart-warming reply.

You sound like the type of people who have made a meaningful life for yourselves here.

Doing creative work is the best possible way to relate to, and live among, these instinctively artistic people.

Yes, Chiang Mai has changed over the years - but so has my wife. She's not the laughing girl that I married thirty-two years ago. But I still love her. Just as I still love Chiang Mai

All the best.

Any farang who lived here in the 1970's and early '80s would have stories to tell about the girls and a lot of other things as well.

The boom-times that started after that changed everything, even the people.

The generation that has come of age since then are as different from the older Thais as were the 1960s generation in the west from their parents and grandparents who had lived through the Depression and WWII.

Worlds apart.

The "boom-times" you mention were the rapid changes and modernization of Chiang Mai in the 1980s. But it had been going on long before that, albeit at a slower pace.

The end result is what we see today; a city that is comparable to others in developed and developing countries. If it has lost much of its old character, it has gained a new one. A consumer's delight, with goods and food from all over the world, modern hospitals, an international airport, and a car in every garage.

That's what the majority of Thais want. They are what is driving the trend. Farangs just play supporting roles.

Chiang Mai lost its sovereignty, for all practical purposes, in the early 1870s with the appointment of a resident Siamese commissioner from Bangkok. The Lanna dynasty continued to hold government posts until 1939, but they had no real power.

That period saw the destruction of much of Chiang Mai's cultural heritage. The suppression of the written [Tua Muang] language and the attempted suppression of the spoken [Kahm Muang] language.

The disappearance of almost all of the royal buildings and residences; the Kampang Muang virtually levelled and the corner forts devastated. The massive gates with their fortified inner courtyards obliterated and replaced with stage-set structures nothing at all like the originals.

These changes took place slowly between the 1870s and the 1960s and were part of what the central government saw as the manifest destiny of the country to be united as a whole.

"As regards the women, they are more active, more industrious, and more intelligent than the men."

Some things haven't changed then!

Agreed.

Grandjean's comments on women - as noted in an earlier topic - are similar to those expressed by Portuguese mercenaries in the 16th century, and by other travellers in other periods, up to, and including our own.

Ian Bushell in a recent talk on Chiang Mai history observed that Ralph Fitch's "...focus on property, riches, and women has a somewhat contemporary ring about it."

Plus ca change...

Did none of these blokes ever go down Loi Kroh then?

No doubt some of them did, but I've never come across any references to it. I don't think there was much to comment on.

The seedy side of town seems to have been on the other side of the river, Charoen Rat to Fah Ham. That was where the "bankrupts of Bangkok" established a community in the 19th century, and the missionaries often remarked on the presence of "soiled doves" among them.

An awesome education for me. I never knew.

Best wishes on your new career path as CM notable historian.

Thanks a lot...but you're talking about Dr Andrew Forbes of CPA Media, not me. His Ancient Chiang Mai series of e-books is a goldmine of information.

I've lived here for a long time, married to a girl from an old Chiang Mai family, and feel very much at home. Love the place. But I'm a graphic artist, not an historian.

Forbes is the real deal.

Great stuff and a most interesting and informative "journey"...

Thanks so much for your word of encouragement.

Chiang Mai history is a fascinating subject, and it's nice to know some others share my interest.

The post about Schomburgk was very interesting. I've heard of the "Schomburgk Line", somewhere in South America, and also the "Schomburgk Deer", but I was only vaguely aware that he had been the British Consul-General in Bangkok.

His trip to Chiang Mai didn't seem to have accomplished its objective of setting up a British diplomatic presence here. It took them another 24 years to get their foot in the door. Although the Borneo Company and Bombay-Burmah were both logging forest-leases before they had the consulate and extra-territorial court to support them in their continual litigation and contentious relations with the Chiang Mai Chaos.

Your dislike of missionaries makes your comments about McGilvary seem unfair, to say the least. Why not look at the way the Chiang Mai Chaos and the ordinary people judged him? His relations with Chao Kawilarot deteriorated drastically, that's true, but he had the support of Chao Witchayanon and Princess Tipkesorn upon their succession, and it lasted until the end of their lives. Another active supporter and close friend was Princess Ubonwanna, whose wealth from teak and other businesses seemed always to be at McGilvary's disposal.

His medical treatment of poor people, and his wife's educational work earned them the gratitude and love of many, who without their presence here wouldn't have had access to healthcare or education in their latest forms.

They were directly or indirectly responsible for the founding of institutions that survive to this day. McCormick Hospital, The Prince Royal's College, and Dara Academy among others.

The good that McGilvary did for Chiang Mai and its people far outweigh any personality quirks he may have had.

It's evident that the Schomburgk mission failed in its main purpose of establishing a British vice-consulate in Chiang Mai. But Schomburgk's position as a diplomat was so secure, and he had so many successes behind him that I don't think it mattered very much to him personally.

The visit was ill-timed to begin with. Chao Kawilarot was absent in Bangkok when Schomburgk arrived, so there was no one with enough authority in Chiang Mai to deal with. Schomburgk mistakenly refers to Kawilarot as a "Viceroy" when in fact he was a "Chao Chee-wit" ...Lord of Life. He could have given permission for a British diplomatic establishment with a nod of his head.

McGilvary's life and career is a heavy concern, and full of contradictions. I will try to summarize it and the effect it had on Chiang Mai history during the latter half of the 19th century in my next post.

Thank you for your continued interest.

...His mission was to convert the Chaos and Kohn Muang to his Protestant form of Christianity.

Seemingly uninterested in the history, art, and culture of Chiang Mai, he was the prototype of the clueless farang who is oblivious to what extent Buddhism is related to traditional ways of life here...

And they are still at it. Nice shirts and stealing moo bahn clubhouse aside, many Thais feel it's wonderful that not just old farangs marrying sex workers are prepared to hand over large sums of cash in return for little more than "yes, I believe you ka".

So many of the missionaries that I've met here in the past 35 years have been almost caricatures of the doctrines they're trying to spread.

To me, the most offensive thing about them is their animus toward Buddhism, which is more than just a religion here, it's the heart and soul of traditional life.

On the positive side, it is undeniable that missionaries were the ones who introduced modern education and medical practices to Chiang Mai, starting with McGilvary in the mid-19th century.

When it became evident that Thais weren't going to be converted en masse, the missionaries turned their attention to the hilltribes where they've had some measure of success. Travelling from village to village in their 4WD pick-up trucks with their Old Testaments teaching these primitive people the silly fables of the jews.

Chiang Mai Farangs - In Perspective.

The Schomburgk Mission to Chiang Mai in 1860, and some introductory comments about the arrival of the Rev. Daniel McGilvary in 1867.

Sir Robert Schomburgk [1804-1865] was a German-born explorer for Great Britain who carried out geographical, ethnological, and botanical studies in South America and the West Indies. He also held diplomatic posts for Great Britain in the Dominican Republic and Siam.

As a young man in 1826 he went to the United States and worked as a clerk in Boston, Philadelphia, and Richmond where he became a partner in a tobacco exporting business.

In 1830 he surveyed Anegada in the British Virgin Islands and sent to the Royal Geographical Society in London a report that so impressed the directors that he was entrusted with conducting an expedition of exploration to British Guiana in 1835.

He fulfilled his mission with great success and in 1841 returned to Guiana as a British government official to survey the colony and fix its eastern and western boundries.

On his return to London in 1844 Schomburgk presented a report of his journey to the Geographical Society, for which he was knighted by Queen Victoria in 1845.

In 1848 he was appointed British Consul to the Dominican Republic, where he served until 1857, when he was promoted to the position of British Consul-General of Siam.

When the British government became interested in exploiting the rich teak forests of the north around Chiang Mai, they sent Schomburgk in 1859 on a diplomatic mission to establish a British vice-consulate in that city.

The idea of a vice-consulate, later a consulate, was revived repeatedly by later consuls until it was finally established in 1884.

According to Reginald LeMay [An Asian Arcady. Cambridge, 1926], Schomburgk "...left only a meagre account of his journey. He went as far as Raheng [Tak] by boat, and then continued the journey on elephants. He passed through Lamphun and reached Chiengmai on 11 February 1860, the whole trip occupying just under two months. From Chiengmai he went by the trade route to Moulmein. Thus becoming one of the earliest, if not the first, European to reach the Gulf of Bengal from the Gulf of Siam via Chiengmai since the ill-fated Thomas Samuel at the beginning of the 17th century."

In a letter to his cousin, Schomburgk records some of his impressions... "After 43 days since our departure we arrived in Chiengmai. This town - the most northerly point of my journey - has a circumference of approximately 3 English miles, and is the residence of a Viceroy who, however, at that time was in Bangkok. The town itself is surrounded by walls, bastions and towers - the suburbs by palisades. The inhabitants are of fine physique and lighter in colour than the Siamese, above all the fairer sex, among whom many as regards their complexion can be compared to Italian women. Unlike the Siamese they wear their hair which is coal-black and shiny, a la chinoise, whereas the Siamese women cut it short, only leaving a round patch covered with hair, similar to those of a brush, on their heads. The unmarried women wear dresses woven out of silk, which reach only half-way; the bosom is uncovered - they merely throw a shawl of light silk and bright colours [which hides nothing] across their bosoms. The married women, on the other hand, conceal their bosoms with a thicker shawl, thrown crosswise across their breasts.

I had spent 13 days in Chiengmai before I could leave the city. From there I wanted to penetrate across the large mountain range to Moulmein on the Bay of Bengal. This route was considered unsafe in view of wild Indian tribes, and so I was given an escort of 140 men and 39 elephants. Two noblemen were in charge of the caravan.

On 26 April, 135 days after my departure, I and my companions safely returned to Bangkok. We thanked God Almighty that he had protected us so well during a voyage lasting so long, and covering approximately 1000 English miles.

I hope to go on leave in 1862, and to go to Europe for one year.."

Schomburgk retired from public service in 1864, suffering from ill-health. He died on 11 March 1865 in his native Germany.

Rest in peace.

After Sir Robert Schomburgk, the next farang on record to visit Chiang Mai was the Rev. Daniel McGilvary, a missionary from North Carolina.

The main interest in McGilvary's life was theology; Southern American Presbyterianism, actually the Scottish Calvinism high and dry, that had been transported to the backwoods of the Carolinas in the 18th century where it took root and flourished. It was not a dogma only but a stern discipline of life. The ministers satirized by Burns in his "Holy Fair" were representative types, but little overdrawn, of the then church in Scotland - clannish and combative since time out of mind... "They delight in their own" wrote Bartholomew the Englishman in the 13th century, "and they love not peace."

Such was the type of man who arrived in Chiang Mai on April 3rd 1867 after an arduous three-month journey from Bangkok with his wife and two small children.

His mission was to convert the Chaos and Kohn Muang to his Protestant form of Christianity.

Seemingly uninterested in the history, art, and culture of Chiang Mai, he was the prototype of the clueless farang who is oblivious to what extent Buddhism is related to traditional ways of life here.

The Lanna people practiced spirit religion and from the 12th century, Theravada Buddhism. In the 14th century the Venerable Sumana of Sukhothai had established a Sinhalese Theravada order in Lamphun and then in Chiang Mai. This Buddhist sect became the leading intellectual and cultural force in the kingdom for over two centuries. From the 15th century, monks, particularly from forest-dwelling communities, travelled to Sri Lanka to study and bring back to Lanna Thai what was considered to be an uncorrupted form of Sinhalese Theravada Buddhism. This relatively egalitarian form of Buddhism affected the structure of Lanna society and the way the princes governed. In contrast, neighbouring Siam was receptive to Indian and Khmer concepts of royalty, and a more hierarchical form of Buddhism with Hindu influences where the king was considered a demi-god.

In my next post I will look at what took place after McGilvary's arrival in Chiang Mai; the establishment of the first Christian mission in Northern Thailand; and subsequent events that ultimately led to the end of the Lanna dynasty.

To be continued.....