gopnarak

Israel signed no treaties pledging to not develop nuclear weapons. Iran DID and they are violating them.

Good thing no nations that has signed any treaties elsewhere has broken against them or we wouid have to hand out more sanctions...

(Treaties to dictate what other nations cannot do is silly, and any treaty should be based on agreement and not force. Any treaty signed under force is like any civil contract signed under force - null and void.)

Assuming Israel does have nuclear weapons and has had for some time, can you cite any instances where they have threatened to use them? Against anybody? Anytime?

I am simply curious because, for the life of me, I can't recall them doing it. Perhaps I slept through that part of class.

No, nothing like that. Israel even made officially clear that they have no plans to attack Iran with tactical nuclear weapons.

There is nothing that indicates that they would use so called mini-nukes, bunker buster to destroy Irans uranium enrichment facilities in an pre-emptive strike.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-denies-plan-to-hit-iran-enrichment-plant-with-tactical-nukes-1.209283

Iran too, Iran had never said that they want to build a nuclear bomb and Iran never threatened that they would use a nuclear weapon against anyone.

This thread is about the US military and their secret! request for money ($82 million) to enhance some 30,000-pounds (13,600-kilograms) Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) mega power bombs to make them even more powerful. The upgrade is needed because their already designated targets are so hard to destroy.

Denying the Right of return for the Palestinian Arab refugees based on the argument their return would be a demographic treat is a racist argument.

Denying the right of return for the Palestinian Arab refugees based on the argument that Jewish refugees cannot go back to Egypt, Morocco, Yemen is a form of collective punishment of the Palestinian Arabs.

It would be wrong to assume that two wrongs make it right or If you think that is okay that Jewish refugees are not allowed to return back or that they have no right to get a compensation - you are wrong too.

But that is an issue you have to discuss with Libya, Iraq or whatever but not with the Palestinian refugees.

The demographic and economical conditions won't change by ignoring them.

So once again....where are all of those people supposed to live? How are they going to make a living? Or is just having them return and letting it sort out itself good enough?

Would Arab Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza/West Bank be forthcoming to return properties they held on to for such a long time? Are they willing to share limited living space with refugees?

This isn't just about Israeli or Jewish views. A whole lot more complex.

I wasn't denying any right of anyone. just pointing out that while the Palestinians and the Arab world in general call for a Right of Return, it seems they apply it one way only.

I just pointed out the racist nature of some simplistic arguments.

Of course such migration process will not come without any problems, but is that a reason to deny the right of return?

Who said that they will come in masses and every Arab around the world who has some distant relative in the greater grand parents generation with a connection to Palestine will now send all his children and grandchildren, wives, aunts, uncles cousins and their children and grand children to beat the Israeli Jews in the demographic match.

So what to do with those people in these refugee ghettos. Ignoring them? Denying that the exist? Waiting longer till all of the original and first generation of refugees have died because of old age and their grand children are now the grandparents themselves so that because they don't know anyone who was once really there their hope to "return" becomes totally abstract and any right to return doesn't become valid before a 2000 years waiting period in the diaspora?

And again don't lump all Arabs from all these different countries together just because you can call them all Arabs.

But okay, you were not the only one who mentioned that so lets look at that argument.

Assumed that

1. In the Arab world in general Jews were forced to flee and leave their homes. If these Jewish refugees would now ask for a right of return to their grandparents homes it would be denied by the Arab world.

Assumed that

2. Somehow it happened that the Palestinian Arabs left their homes in a hurry and became refugees. These Palestinian Arabs demand a right of return to their homeland but that is denied by Israel.

3. And now?

I'm sure that there are Palestinians who would prefer the ways of peace.

My point was that you don't actually here them speak up much.

There can be many explanations and reasons, but fact stands that on the whole, you don't hear a lot of criticism when it comes to acts of terror. In some cases quite the opposite. I find it sad.

If you don't hear them you should start to listen.

I would be glad to. Links?

I still haven't figured out what is considered off topic here or will get labeled and deleted as conspiracy theory or nonsense and for what posters get penalised.

I don't want test that out with a trial and error method as there are also punishments for doing it wrong and also a waste of time on my side when my posts get deleted.

But judging by other comments i have read from you, i think you have the ears to hear and are also aware how distorted the images we get trough the media can sometimes be.

I'm sure that there are Palestinians who would prefer the ways of peace.

My point was that you don't actually here them speak up much.

There can be many explanations and reasons, but fact stands that on the whole, you don't hear a lot of criticism when it comes to acts of terror. In some cases quite the opposite. I find it sad.

If you don't hear them you should start to listen.

Denying the Right of return for the Palestinian Arab refugees based on the argument their return would be a demographic treat is a racist argument.

Denying the right of return for the Palestinian Arab refugees based on the argument that Jewish refugees cannot go back to Egypt, Morocco, Yemen is a form of collective punishment of the Palestinian Arabs.

It would be wrong to assume that two wrongs make it right or If you think that is okay that Jewish refugees are not allowed to return back or that they have no right to get a compensation - you are wrong too.

But that is an issue you have to discuss with Libya, Iraq or whatever but not with the Palestinian refugees.

Support trade and exchange would be a way to go to 'get them' and not restriction and sanctions.

The U.S. military spent about $330 million to develop about 20 MOPs, but the U.S. Department of Defense has now submitted a secret request to U.S. Congress for another $82 million to enhance the bomb's ability to penetrate deeper into rock, concrete and steel before exploding, according to U.S. officials who spoke to the Wall Street Journal.

That reveals the most basics and actually everything you have to know or what can be said about the US military.

They want bigger bombs, bombs to crack and destroy a defense system and they really want to use these bombs and that against a country in Asia.

And you pay for it.

Its a right of RETURN for REFUGEES.

First-generation refugees and their descendants, and their right to return, and a right to the property they or their forebears left or which they were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories (formerly part of the British Mandate of Palestine), as part of the 1948 Palestinian exodus, a result of the 1948 Palestine war and due to the 1967 Six-Day War.

Expelling people with the constructed argument they are Arabs and because the Arabs started a war against Israel Arabs now have to go is a collective punishment of this people. Denying the right of return with the same constructed reason is collective punishment.

Denying refugees of war the right of return on base of their religion or ethnicity is a form of ethnic cleansing and of course that is a case of racism.

Palestinian leaders have stated endless times that they have no problem with Jews and had lived together in peace in previous generations.

A Golda Meyerson, born Golda Mabovich of Milwaukee, Wisconsin could might have problems to apply for citizenship under the right of return in a Palestinian state, but a Jew from this region whose grandparents, great grandparents lived there like the grandparents of the Palestinians should have no problems.

Of course its racist not to give Palestinian Arabs a right of return just because they are not Jews.

They should have thought of that before declaring war on Israel. It is too late now.

If you use that construct as reason for denying the Palestinians a right of return, then it is a form of collective punishment and a violation of the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions.

Domestic violence is a problem all over the world. Sad fact. With all these cases of rape, assault and murder by a current or former spouse, intimate partner, boyfriend or girlfriend you could fill pages of newspapers every day. But mostly likely is that your newspaper will only report the local cases and very seldom it will become world news, except its maybe used for propaganda.

CIA 'suggests' Europe should understand suffering of women under Taliban

European Nato governments should emphasise the suffering of women under Taliban rule to counter domestic calls for troop withdrawal a leaked CIA analysis suggests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7535681/CIA-suggests-Europe-should-understand-suffering-of-women-under-Taliban.html

Of course its racist not to give Palestinian Arabs a right of return just because they are not Jews.

And it is totally false to state that the Palestinian Arabs would not allow that any Jews stay there.

You really need to do some basic research. A Palestinian spokesman recently opined that Palestine would be Jew free and judging by the Christian exodus from Palestine you can conclude it is little better for them. As for right of return, nobody talks about compensation for the Jews forced out of Arab lands, not to mention the fact that when you fight a war of annhialation and lose then dam_n right you lose territory.

NEXT.

There are other Palestinian spokesmen who declared that they have nothing against Jews.

You have a very simplified answer to a complicated chicken or egg problem and it seems you think that collective punishment is right.

Everything Iran does supports the theory that they actually desire escalation of events to fulfill their own messianic prophecies.

I do not follow your thinking in this claim.............

Shi'as believe that Imam al-Mahdi - their savior - will reappear when the world has fallen into chaos and civil war and they are encouraged to bring it about. That is why the Iranian regime is so dangerous. They want to bring the world to its knees for religious reasons.

Tales of an apocalypse are part in the belief system of all Abrahamic religions.

Some Christian nutters belief that Iran wants to trigger the doomsday and will bring the world to end. But that is only an argument these Christian nutters use to "prove" that their vision of an apocalypse is true and real.

Most amusing is that it appears that the European ban on Iranian oil will take place fully from 1st July with various contracts being phased out gradually, particularly for Greece who are heavily reliant on Iranian oil. Iran should just turn around and say . all deals off, the ban starts today, go elsewhere for your oil. That would through the ball squarely back in the face of the Eurocrats.

They'd never do that as they'd shoot themselves right in the foot. Iran sustains itself on oil sales so unless China comes along and says 'we'll take it' (they'd need some stones), they'll have to suck it up.

Well, actually in Iran they discuss about doing this- halt oil sales to Europe. And they discuss about this in the parliament, so it will be not just a decision made by some Council of Ministers.

Mr Ban would be better having a holiday, instead of wasting his time with this. Israel simply does not want peace, all they want is continual expansion of their 'territory", while at the same time restricting Palestinian food and water supplies.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.

Couldn't be less surprised. Go ahead and paint Israelis as the bad guys and the Palestinians as the good guys. Anyone with the slightest bit of objectivity knows its not that simple.

That they want a "continual expansion of their 'territory"" is a valid argument.

Or what and where are the borders of Israel according their own definition of their borders?

Hopefully it will be done/started

It of course will take an exchange & that is the hold up.

If it is not a give & take from both sides then there is not much hope.

Agreed. So it is doomed of course because the Palestinians seem like they will NEVER give up their demand for Arab right of return into the negotiated borders of Israel.

Why should they.

Because Israel is a sovereign country and like any sovereign country has every right to make its own immigration rules. As it is now, Israel is 20 percent Arab. If the Palestinians return it will be majority Arab and no longer Israel. That might happen someday but it won't happen from peace talks but a military defeat. Interestingly, those on the Palestinian side who do say they want their own state and will settle for that, also say they won't allow even one Jew to be a citizen there. Pretty racist if you ask me.

Your comment brings out an inconvenient truth that I think is obvious. A huge percentage of people who think Israel deserves all the blame for no peace in their region also happen to be in favor of Israel not existing. So you understand my pessimism.

Of course its racist not to give Palestinian Arabs a right of return just because they are not Jews.

And it is totally false to state that the Palestinian Arabs would not allow that any Jews stay there.

Geez I wish they would spend that sort of money on the Australian Health System. People laying on trolleys and floors for days in emergency wards and waiting lists extending years to get into hospital and the Australian government is providing a health system to indoneasia that Australians could only dream of. I can now see why Australians are travelling to places like Indonesia and Thailand to see a doctor, that is where all thier taxes are building the best hospitals.

+1

I doubt that Australian tourists travel to Indonesia and line up for conditions like this.

According to AusAID, an Indonesian woman is 30 times more likely to die in childbirth than an Australian woman and one in three children under the age of five suffer from stunting, which is caused by malnutrition. In addition, approximately 120 million Indonesians do not have access to safe drinking water while about 110 million people do not have adequate sanitation.

Helping Indonesia to improve the living conditions for the people there might also help to keep the people there instead of that they become a part of the 21 century wave of immigrants who seek a better life in Australia. I heard that the older generation of Immigrants from previously migrant waves to Australia aren't so happy about newcomers.

The replies here show what a pathetic bunch of ar........es most farangs who hang out here are and makes me wonder if they are all just a

bunch of football hooligans who missed their flight home. Do you all really have nothing better to do than to make juvenile comments

about a few pics.

The lady may be attractive and she may have used that to publicise her complaint BUT she is right and has an immportant message.

The mills that buy from the farmers will use this so called price guarantee to pay lower prices telling the farmers to claim the rest off the gov.

They will have to wait months to get the top up if ever. I farm some cassava in Chayapoum and know what happens in such cases.

The farmers will get ripped of once again.

I agree with you. I would like to know more about what is the the problem with these price guarantee issue instead of following a discussion about who is more beautiful - a 40 years old Korat farmer "girl" or a Thai TVdara.

Odd enough that some member of the 60+/70+ generation made some compliments about the look of the disgruntled striper farmer, but to argue that these older gentlemen need new glasses or that your taste in woman is 'better' isn't much smarter and not mature.

Wow. This article was about the Thai Tourist Council and their inept remarks regarding terror alerts. The Thai Tourist Council spokesperson comments as a buffoon would. Who would take those comments seriously? "A normal procedure?" "only a level 2 out of a level 4", "a number of Free Independent Travelers - FIT from HK and Taiwan had canceled, having an impact on Thailand's image." Preposterous comments from an appointed official with total disregard for the well-being of the tourist constituency.

Some posters here have "excused" away the Thai reaction and behavior toward the alert and its meaning. That Thais are challenged resulting from lack of experience and aren't armed with the reasoning skills to figure out that global war on terror is "global" is not acceptable and needs to be taken seriously. But the Thais have been mounting armed, organized defense against the terror of communist infiltration for decades. They have been terrorizing and killing their own student groups who protest various incongruities in Thai privileged class elite management and military dictatorship governments for decades. They have been killing southern muslim terrorists for ten years in response to bombings, truck bombings, motorcycle shootings..etc. They have "ignored' the breaches of security inherent in airport closings by political groups and slapping of security personnel fulfilling their mission and doing their job. Thais have taken great joy after 2007 New Year bombings and the closing of celebrations, to report that "it's business as usual' and the Thai press has evangelized this same complacency time and again.

Complacency, unwavering denial, total rejection of any idea not Thai or part the "Thai way," sticking to " defiant Thainess," uninformed, disinterested awareness of world events, consequences, and ramifications. Sure the Thais are inept, self absorbed, and have an over inflated sense of self importance, and have big problems with doing the right thing with outside world reconciliation, but until they are able to identify that they have these problems and need help, they will be buried in their own ego forever.

The truth is, that most tourists, notwithstanding many come for sex trade, would consider a terror warning serious business. If they pick up a copy of the Thai newspapers and bother to read about it, most would laugh at the comments like we do. Who would take the Thais seriously after reading the Thai English newspaper? Further to reality, Thailand is actually a sitting duck for terrorist activity and it is a concern. lack of security, criminal activity, rampant corruption, flagrant violation of law and bribing, and on and on. Thailand is in effect an equivalent of a failed state by the definition that the state is unable to provide security for its citizens and that the government is abducted by corrupt, criminal and illegal operations and governance.

I see you like Thailand. me too. Its very nice here and full of friendly people.

Where are you from? AMERICA?

How many of these Embassies are Asian embassies and how many are embassies from NATO states.

Thais don't want get involved in your war on terror.

Abhisit said: "We need proper measures to protect our people - but for foreign countries, notably the US, we cannot allow them to guide us on any matter,"

Thais aren't stupid or incompetent just because you don't get their opinion.

He added that police had found evidence that Hussein had contacted shipping firms in order to export the bomb-making materials. "We have already alerted the authorities of the intended destination," he said, adding that Hussein was just a man assigned to handle the bomb-making materials in Thailand and not key to any terror plots.

Urea fertiliser is freely available in Thailand and possessing it is not a legal offence. However, ammonia nitrate is a controlled substance and unauthorised possession constitutes the violation of law.

My words. I didn't expect to hear any other outcome.

That wasn't the terror plot. Who looks like a fool now?

Who looks like the fool now? You tell us.

According to the source, Hussein had revealed in jail that bomb-making materials were being kept in a shophouse in Samut Sakhon and that he used to drive around the capital taking photos of key sites.

Yeah i read that. "An informed source" said it ... how laughable. Probably some insider information the Jerusalem Post got first.

He added that police had found evidence that Hussein had contacted shipping firms in order to export the bomb-making materials. "We have already alerted the authorities of the intended destination," he said, adding that Hussein was just a man assigned to handle the bomb-making materials in Thailand and not key to any terror plots.

Urea fertiliser is freely available in Thailand and possessing it is not a legal offence. However, ammonia nitrate is a controlled substance and unauthorised possession constitutes the violation of law.

My words. I didn't expect to hear any other outcome.

That wasn't the terror plot. Who looks like a fool now?

National police chief Priewpan Damapong also quoted the suspect as saying that Hezbollah was not planning to attack Bangkok, but that it had hidden the materials for shipment to another destination. So far, Hussein has only been charged with possessing potentially lethal substances without permission, deputy national police chief Pansiri Papawat said.

The suspect is, however, being detained for further questioning in a move to root out other Hezbollah cells that might be operating out of Thailand. As for what will be done with the detainee: police believe that since he never had any intentions of blowing up Bangkok, he should not be charged with plotting an act of terrorism.

No terror plot, no planned attack in Bangkok, no bomb.

Just lacking the proper license to store some chemicals.

I think that will clear some confusion here what are the conspiracy theories and what is actually the reality.

......................

Oz has quite a few Lebanese immigrants, and names like Bayeh, Ibrahim, Nassour, Sayour, Macris regularly appear in our newspapers - crime and court reports mainly - far out of proportion to their percentage of the population.

Omg they have names like Ibrahim - what a crime.

Showing off the true colour now ...

As I noted before, your reading comprehension is sadly lacking. There is no crime in a name, but their names regularly appear in crime. While Oz accepts many immigrants, we certainly could have done without Bill Bayeh, Sam Ibrahim and their associates.

No worry, i understand you.

Like i said, you are showing off your true colours.

I can see how you think that is sounds like Deja Vu. However, Iraq and Iran were never the same country, similar spelling notwithstanding.

FYI, the USA is still the same country, that have both cases in common.

Per gopnarak: "Democrat Party spokesperson Chavanond has criticized the government for allowing many other countries to issue warnings to their citizens about a possible terrorist attack in Thailand. He also pointed out that the gov't has also provoked Hezbollah by accusing it of being behind a possible terror plot."

Please explain how you PROVOKE Hezbollah AFTER Hezbollah terrorist group planing the attack? The plan of the attacks came first and now Hezbollah terrorist group is caught!

Maybe Hezbollah is in the eyes of the Democrats spokesperson not really a terrorist group?

And all we have at the moment are allegation, accusation, speculation and imagination and it is not even clear if the suspect belongs to the Hezbollah.

Like the Democrats, the Gov't doesn't want to get involved in the Israel Hezbollah conflict and i think they really believe that there isn't a danger of a terrorist attack in Thailand and don't just saying it to save tourist dollars as the Thai basher he suggest.

Think about it or do you think he is a troll because here in Thailand some western view points seems to be not valid.

That some here doesn't understand this makes the Thais not incompetent or stupid.