JingerBen

Avigdor Lieberman's pipedreams of ethnic cleansing are futile. Israel is on a collision course with acceptable global political norms. They cannot continue repressing in the most atrocious ways the non Jewish majority of the population in historic Palestine, the area Israel now completely controls, with impugnity. It is already de facto apartheid.

There will be no more large scale aliyahs while such extreme right wing policies are in force. Why would American Jewry and others from elsewhere migrate to Israel when they are doing very nicely practising their faith and living secure prosperous peaceful fully integrated lives in the USA and other countries. Thus Israeli Jews will inevitably become an embarrassing minority ruling regime, just like other colonial enterprises doomed to failure, when the world finally ostracizes them, if the Israeli electorate doesn't come to its senses sooner.

It is not BDS nor probably EU sanctions, but it is liberal democratically minded young American Jewry who will eventually see through the monster that their forebears have created. And good riddance to xenophobic Lieberman, Netanyahu, and the whole racist supremacist Zionist regime.

Exceptionally good post that sums up this topic from beginning to end.

An immense amount of effort is being expended to push an agenda, but the simple truth demolishes it every time.

Thanks for that.

why do people that subscribe to this forum rag on thailand so much - if people think it is so bad why not leave, withdraw your membership from the forum and go live where you will be happy….

as for Venezuela - glamour shiela's but not worth the risk

People have a perfect right to moan about Thailand on a Thai forum and if they went home it would still be the same. I don't want to forum to be a love in and Thailand can do no wrong kind of place, that would be boring and pointless

Yes, it has often been said before... if you don't like it here, go home.... go live where you will be happy... etc., etc.

Good ideas can't be repeated often enough. They are only derided as clichés by jerks who don't have enough sense to see how true they are.

It is the obvious solution to the plight of the unhappy camper - strike the tent.

These complaining misfits have come down on Thailand like a plague of locusts. Their contentious relations with the local people spoil the scene for all of us.

Uncle Ho's struggle may have been valiant and his cause legitimate. That legitimacy did not justify the mass executions, the victimisation of the innocent, the reign of terror perpetrated by his successors an undertaken in his name.

The reign of terror that came down on Vietnam in the 1960s and '70s was inflicted by the USA - not Ho Chi Minh.

One of her more bizarre quotes

Islam - a religion horribly misrepresented by terrorists, which is like the IRA saying they represented Irish people. Islam is a BEAUTIFUL religion. would make you cry it's so beautiful... and gentle.

Sinead O'Connor

How deluded and naive can you get ?

Maybe she reads Rumi...

​ Sit, be still, and listen,

because you're drunk

and we're at

the edge of the roof.

​

A good idea for a first exhibit would be photographs of the artwork - some of it quite impressive - done by Banksy and others on Israel's Apartheid Wall.

Yeah ... it's an endless loop. As if Israel is supposed to set it's policies to please the POV of an agenda dedicated to it's nonexistence. Good luck with that.

Not non existent. Simply non existent as a racist supremacist Jewish State. It will become just like every other modern European democracy. Just as S Africa, N Ireland and the southern segregated states had to change. It's called progress.

Amen to that, bro.

It will be a comprehensive economic, academic, and cultural boycott of Israel that will achieve that goal... just as it did in apartheid South Africa.

The alternative is an endless cycle of mindless violence.

Let's take another case of a Muslim people rebelling against an occupying power: the Uighurs in Xanjing, Western China. There the Chinese government is sending in huge numbers of Han Chinese to settle the area. The Han are given all sorts of preferential treatment. In effect, it's colonization. The Uighurs are treated as 3rd class citizens. The Uighurs have responded by committing horrifying acts of violence against innocent civilians in other parts of China. Oddly enough, outside of China, you don't hear many people making the argument that the Uighurs and the Chinese government have an equal claim to being on the side of justice.. Most people recognize that the onus lies with the Chinese. While desperate people will engage in desperate and evil acts, ultimately it's a reaction, not an initiative.

Throughout history, this is a common pattern of how indigenous people react to colonization all over the world. What makes the case of Israelis vs. Palestinians special?

Comparisons are often of value not because cases are identical, but because they highlight both similarities and differences.

One does not see much by way of global public opinion being harnessed to support the Uighurs. At least nothing on par with the demonization campaigns related to the Palestinian struggle. Do the Chinese relate widely recognized cultural, historical or religious connections to support their claim? Were the Uighurs and the Chinese locked in a violent struggle for decades? And was there, at any point, any real danger posed to the PRC? Have the Uighurs, at any point, raised territorial counter claims with regard to the rest of China?

Ponder these points and it might answer your question.

If the post above was just the usual re-hash of "colonization" and "indigenous people" - those were discussed many a time on these topics. Allow me to fast forward to the part where Israel's right to exist is denied, and where we part ways. With reference to the OP, may wish to note that Golan actually asserts Israel's historical and moral rights. Not quite the cherry picked script presented.

I expect this kind of reply from someone else here. From you, I expect better. I have not demonized Israel or Israelis. I have never called for the abolltion of Israel or even for turning it into a non-Jewish state. For what it's worth, I've met a fair number of Israelis, and generally I like them. Even the ones that conform to the stereotypes of Israeli behavior. I have just pointed out that Israel is colonizing the West Bank. There were already people there. They were not treated fairly by the Israelis. This kind of violence is an inevitable reaction to this kind of treatment. What's more, colonization is damaging not only the the colonzied but to the colonizers. I do wonder what would have been the outcome had the Israelis treated the Palestinians decently. Traditionally, the Palestinians provided a disproportionate share of intellectuals and professionals to the Arab world. They were also very entrepenurial. Imagine what things might be like now if Israel had fostered their development instead of following the current path.

Slander and personal attacks are all part of the bitter and disingenuous opposition to all criticism of Israel.

General Golan is immune to that - that's why his comments have caused such a firestorm of frustrated rage.

It was crazy stupid and one of the many fruits of the combination of ignorance and hubris that have and will continue to plague this culture.

Maybe it was not stupid.. and just vote buying as others suggested. For that part it worked quite well. If they really thought they could have made money from it.. then it was stupid.

Also with the fake G2G deals it was easy to scam off money (too bad the junta took over otherwise they would have gotten away with it).

So maybe it worked as designed.. a way to cheat and get votes. If the loan from China had gone through they could have covered this up. Just tough luck that they went for an amnesty for the master robber and protests followed, that led to the junta taking over.

Had they not tried to get the criminal from Dubai home without punishment things could have looked totally different.

Good points that would be hard to gainsay..

I don't think it was a combination of ignorance and hubris as much as it was a vote buying scheme - as noted in post #1 by colinneil.

Major-General Yair Golan was quoted as saying "If there's something that frightens me about Holocaust rememberance it's the recognition of the nauseating processes that occurred in Europe in general, and particularly in Germany, back then, 70, 80 and 90 years ago- and finding signs of them here among us today in 2016."

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu took exception to that and "slammed" him for suggesting that the country was showing signs of "Nazi-esque behavior."

Golan's warning - coming from a senior official - is an encouraging sign that the radical Zionists and hard-line Likudniks have some growing opposition within Israel as well as worldwide.

While I realize the obsessive Israel demonization agenda will take his statement out of context and use it as "Jew washing" (it's a thing, look it up) to support continued demonization of Israel. So in that sense, perhaps he shouldn't have given such ammunition to people who obviously hate Israel ... but the context really was INTERNAL.

I think this article explains that very well but you really need to read the entire article to get the context, which also explains the INTERNAL context of the general's statement:

Why are Israel’s generals being so noisy? Quite simple. In their near-unanimous professional estimation, stretching from a proven hawk like Yair Golan across the spectrum to the 200 ex-generals of Commanders for Israel’s Security, they see Israel facing an opportunity now, given the current Palestinian leadership, the weakness of the neighboring Arab states and the openness of the Saudi-led Arab League, to make deals that can secure Israel’s future. Instead they see a political leadership that’s letting the opportunities slip by for ideological reasons.

http://forward.com/opinion/340173/was-this-top-israeli-general-right-to-denounce-jewish-extremism-on-holocaus/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1

So an American, living in Thailand tries to interpret the meaning of a full career hardened member of the IDF that is second only in command of the Army. The only one being obsessive on here is you and your habit of calling anyone who dares to criticize the Israeli Government as being a Jew hater. You see the truth is for me (and I think many others) that I do not even think of Israeli's as Jews, it NEVER enters my head. I think of them as just other nationals from another country. i think Israel has a despicable Government, a despicable foreign policy, they lack any consideration of international Human rights issues and have for decades ignored all UN resolutions, particularly anything related to Nuclear weapons. I can't stand the North Korean Government - not the people, the Government, does that make me a hater of all the people in Korea (an atheist hater no less). You dislike Putin intensely does that make you a Russian hater (are you an orthodox Christian hater?)? As soon as someone dislikes the Israeli Government, the old twist is put on it immediately, they become jew haters. It is getting boring, predictable and is WRONG!

If General Golan's comments were meant to be 'internal' and not meant they way they have been interpreted then Netanyahu would not have reacted the way he did. He would have said to the worlds press 'Guys you have misinterpreted the Generals comments', but he didn't, he almost had a baby in his rage. Netanyahu has interpreted the meaning of the Generals comments exactly the same way as most TV members on here, so why not mail him and tell him he misunderstands the General and he has taken it out of context.

That sums it up and demolishes the lame attempts at damage control and personal vilification.

He should be allowed to express his opinion. He is a model. ELITE is huge and can easilly brush this off. Truth must hurt

Or maybe Khun Junta owns this franchise and OMG they say he bad... OMG

Why do people that live here risk a stupid defamation charge by posting while living here local,Just have an acquaintance outside LOS to do it for them.

Obviously, that's the way to do it.

But most farangs are ​ngoh.

Ask any Thai.

Good stuff as usual but it can't be denied that the Israel demonization agenda is twisting his words to suggest -- see even this general agrees Israel is like Nazi Germany. Now we have primo Jewish cover to keep spouting that inflammatory lie. I think he probably should have known that and perhaps found other words to express himself.

What other words could he have found to express an obvious truth?

Initially Tariq and Zac were pretty much neck and neck until Zac played the race card. Kiss of death in a cosmopolitan city like London. Stupid man!

Stupid for sure.

He should have known better.

"Even Goldsmith's sister Jemima appeared to disapprove of his campaign, once the results were announced."

Is she still a Muslim - or did that end along with her marriage to Imran Khan?

Yep. Proper old-fashioned ones, usually second-hand and a little battered. I find them a nice change from all the technology.

have you visited the guesthouse on soi chaiyapoom with the book section.......may be up your alley!.....next to triangle bar

I've no idea where that is.

I get most of my books from the marvellous Dasa books - http://www.dasabookcafe.com/

Dasa is great.

In Chiang Mai check out Backstreet Books and Gecko... both on Chang Moi Kao, Off Thae Phae Road near the gate.

Read up a bit more, GingerBen.

Conquering was the rule of the day. Not science.

Agreed.

Conquering was the rule of the day for every country that had the means to do so.

The voyages of Captain James Cook were exploratory and scientific. His expeditions were of immense importance to botany, anthropology, navigation, medicine, and exploration.

He made land claims in the name of King George III, but they were incidental to the reasons that members of the Royal Society argued the case for mounting the expeditions.

A relic of Savage Imperialism personified by Captain Cook.

Change ​savage to scientific .

​Cook's three Pacific voyages produced a wealth of knowledge that Great Britain used very effectively in the following century.

Sink that mindless denigration of imperialism and look at historical events in the context that they occurred.

The sooner Cruz is out, the better.

Trump is going to get the nomination - it's written on the wall now.

Disappointing really. I was looking forward to the Cleveland bloodbath. There is still hope.

Agree. I'm still holding out hope that the NeverTrump movement will remain intact through the convention. It's rather amazing that after months and months of primaries, the best non-Trump hope that the GOP can come up with is Cruz....the most hated man in politics.

+2... I have simplified my politics into an utter detestation of all existing candidates.

What a rat pack!

Watch yo mouff new kid on the block. Better watch yo manners wif Nancy or u may get yo mouff washed out wit a bar o soap.

Seriously , no need to be rude. People may think you are a Born Again and not a newbie

Nobody's being rude.

It was a valid correction followed by a facetious little pin prick.

Only an overinflated ego would pop.

Certainly not NancyL.

It seems like Putin is trying to establish a new Russian Empire and dominate areas that were previously part of the old Imperial Russian Empire or USSR.

it's seems like your "honest and free" media put a huge pile of crap deeply into your head. It's called warmongering.

That's exactly what it is, warmongering.

Some prolific posters on this forum keep it coming constantly.

Wars 'R' US.

Despite many foreign menfolk having a comfortable life, together with a Thai lady, you only have the real life roots that you brought with you, to the LOS, and then provide an up-grade the quality level to that life, yourself.

Essentially, you are alone here (in the LOS), particularly on the cognitive consciousness levels. Many expats will fananatically deny this fact, as a means of justifying their rationale for permanently remaining there. The LOS is peaceful (for thr most part), the womenfolk are the best "available & accommodating" eye-candy in Asia, plus the food and accommodations are affordable. However, life in the LOS can still leave a spiritual void in the farang's life, regardless the size of his purse, or the amount of Heinekens comsumed.

Thus, all praises are due to the creators of the TVF. It’s a medium of entertainment, an intellectual or information exchange platform, a “bitching-post” (sounding board) for venting individual frustrations, or an available "neutral" platform where people can simply meet, and give each other, a much needed, reassuring hug.

Hence, the TVF simply dispels the spiritual loneliness of being, the perpetually tolerated farang of the village

Perhaps this explanation answers your question. I certainly hope so. Cheers, and best wishes to you

From one Ben to another let me thank you for a perceptive post.

Can't argue with any of your points, but might add that it helps to have a life here that includes meaningful work and a good family.

"Essentially, you affirm your wish to see Israel eradicated..."

No, that wasn't what he said at all.

Anyone who reads him regularly - and is honest - knows that is exactly what he would like to see.

Hogwash.

His posts are intelligent and factual.

It's the resident Zionists on this forum that deal in personal insults to push a dishonest agenda.

Reply to his point, don't denigrate his character.

Yes, but I think there is SOME truth to the leftist perspective that Israel will become less democratic if a two state solution can't somehow be engineered. (And yes that would require the political will on BOTH sides which currently does not exist on EITHER side.)

What isn't true is that Israel will ever accept a one state solution where they allow Jews to be a minority or EVER given up BASIC and CORE "Zionist" (in a GOOD way) values of universal right of return for Jews. The Israel demonization agenda is so obvious -- the end of Israel as a Jewish majority nation state, one way or another.

Sorry haters on Israel -- Israelis may be a lot of things, but they are not STUPID or particularly SUICIDAL.

Is it desirable for Israel to be less democratic and more right wing? No, of course not.

But that is more desirable than Israel NOT existing and an Israel without a Jewish majority means Israel no longer exists.

>>The Israel demonization agenda is so obvious -- the end of Israel as a Jewish majority nation state, one way or another.

Absolutely. Got it in one [..year's worth of posting!] A return to a Palestine of mixed religions exactly as it was 100 years ago, before European Zionist colonialists invaded to take over and dominate the land.

And that is exactly what will happen sooner or later.

Israel can do it the easy way or the messy way, as Joe Biden hinted at in the OP.

The easy way. Make peace with the Palestinians in a just 2 state solution. If the deal offered isn't just and fair the Palestinians will say no and the world will support them. The conflict festers on while the demographic problem grows.

The messy way. Continued land grabs by the right wing Zionist fanatics, continued repression of Palestinian human rights, continued resistance from freedom fighters. Increased global awareness through the international and social media of the great Zionist hoax: Israel plays the role of victim when they are in fact the aggressor. The conflict festers on while the demographic problem grows. Eventual capitulation from Israel due to internal and external pressure that forces a just 2 state solution. But that offer may no longer be on the table.

Either way, after decades of peace the two peoples will gradually and inevitably assimilate into one country. Especially if they both end up joining any free movement organisations such as the EU.

What isn't true is that Israel will ever accept a one state solution where they allow Jews to be a minority or EVER given up BASIC and CORE "Zionist" (in a GOOD way) values of universal right of return for Jews.

There you have it folks. Replace a few of the words and you have the manifesto of many racist/religionist regimes that have existed historically. Israel must maintain racial/religionist supremacy at all costs.

In fact I know of no other country in the world which automatically grants citizenship and a second passport solely for religious reasons.

The Time Machine is fiction.

Essentially, you affirm your wish to see Israel eradicated, and a new country (which will obviously not be Israel) to take its place. You wish to see Jews in Israel (or, perhaps New Palestine) as a tiny minority, only this time without even the semblance of protection afforded by the Ottomans or the Brits. Yeah, that would work....

Guess while at it, you'd have all previous Israeli Jews denounce Zionism, sent to attitude adjustment camps or deported. Other minorities (Druze coming to mind) will have to fend for themselves.

Continuing on the same political trajectory, Israel will obviously come to a point where things with the Palestinians will need to be addressed. Right now, there are no signs of major changes in policy. It may frustrate Biden, but it is what it is. Frankly, even if such changes were to magically materialize, it is doubtful that they could be swiftly acted upon or that their application would bring about the imagined results any time soon.

Your assumptions regarding the future bargaining power and resilience of the Palestinians are based on conditions remaining similar to current ones (meaning regionally and domestically). This being the Middle East, the weight of such long term predictions with regard to anything is questionable, even if it was pronounced less biased. Nothing is more indicative of the the value of such statements than the "after decades of peace" bit.... (or assuming that the EU would be around at that time).

What JT is about is quite simple. If faced between a choice between eradication and not being an ideal democracy, Israel would go with the latter. As would most countries. Of course, no issues whatsoever with the Palestinians dreaming of enacting pretty much the same policies...

"Essentially, you affirm your wish to see Israel eradicated..."

No, that wasn't what he said at all.

His point was that Israel is the only country in the world that automatically grants citizenship and a second passport solely for religious reasons.

Is that true? Refute that simple statement convincingly before wandering off into the fog of propaganda.

Biden's criticism of Netanyahu's government and Bernie Sanders' obvious dislike for radical Zionism are very positive developments for the prospect of peace in the Middle East.

You have to pay obeisance to Israel if you want to become the US President. You have to swear your full compliance with Israel's demands. You have to run to AIPAC and declare your eternal love of the Jewish state. This is a truism.

Or so it was until Sanders turned the tables and changed the rules. We do not know yet whether the game will succeed and he will be anointed the next President . We do not know even whether he will snatch the Democrats' nomination from the teeth of Mrs. Clinton. But he already achieved a great victory and toppled the mainstay pillar of the regime.

It is fitting that a Jew would undo the Jewish hegemony in the US, as it was a Communist Gorbachev who undid the Communist rule in the USSR. Some systems are too strong and impervious for an outside force; it is the inner impulse that breaks the hatching egg.

New name can be changed to: not - so jolly man?

What country is he headed for?

That will determine whether or not he changes his name.

Your looking for truths in the land if lies.

Christ lying is a national pastime.

And your facts to back this up are!!!!!!!@!@@@

Thais will often lie to family or friends to save face.

People will lie to you all day long,a classic example is a taxi driver telling you they know where you want to go when they simply do not.

There are thousands of examples in Thai culture where telling a lie is simply easier than not telling the truth or making ones self look a fool.

Anyone who has lived in Thailand for a period of time knows it.

For anyone who has ever lived or traveled in Africa, the Middle East, India, or many many other places in the world your comments sound naïve.

There are liars everywhere you go. Thailand is no exception.

The search for an honest country is-on-all-fours with Diogenes search for an honest man.

Give it up, bro.