Ajarn

Most brokers require you to deposit a min. of 25k US.

So why the 'lawyering' of the truth, huh?

If you have this capital you are 'usually' better off going that route

BIG Red Flags here for me. Buyer Beware

I'm a firm believer that sometimes money can buy happiness...

More power to you, Heartache. Forget all the nay sayers- unless they're making sense

I think, the most important point is, that you are not showing up as the great rich Farang....(Thai people do not like this)

If you do so, then they all will rip you off, and finally YOU are alone, all money gone, not even a Thank you! Keep this in mind - think about yourself first.

You are not above them, but also not below them....

Make yourself equal......but to some good conditions also for you.....

That is a very good point Yohan. Be humble. People will know if you are smarter, richer, and in general better off than they are. But if your approach is one of arrogance, then no one will feel the bit sad if you lose it all. I believe this is a universal concept.

It's great that you guys are talking about ways to help the less fortunate. I remember many years back helping out an ex-worker (many ex-workers). The highest education that this group had was 6th - 9th grade level. Out of the ten, only one I considered got past the point where he does not need to do laborer type jobs. He worked for me for over 7 years. During that period, I would take the time to teach him how to use the computer to the point where he developed an interest in it. After he went his own way, he actually attended a government sponsored program to train as a technician. I heard from him several months back. He is now working for a large computer hardware firm. Although still very low in ranking and making probably not much more than a laborer, at least he is developing some skills that can be applied to others jobs than as a constructuion laborer. Oh..and he wants to attend more classes which I would gladly pay for if it helps him progress up the economic ladders of life.

The point here is there will be many failures. Howeer, the one that progress makes it the more worthwhile to keep helping.

And you should be proud of the part you played in his life, so far. It's always great when your 'students' do well, na'?...

Just hope they have enough children to take care of them when they get old.

Maybe the 30 baht health care will be extended to foreigners.

Just so you know, every worker in Thailand, even if a foreigner, gets free health care through Social Security. Also, even farangs are covered under Thai employment and wage laws, which, in my experience are even better than in some western countries...When one reaches retirement age, they are also eligible for a Thai govt pension....

In addition, there is now, or soon will be, a form of unemployment insurance available to anyone working legally in Thailand.

I think there is a wage (or tax paid anyway)/WP deal, but I'm not sure if it applies to every kind of 'school' as, like you say, I know people earning less but they hold WPs (are you sure the people you know aren't paying tax on 25-30k even though they're actually earning less).

Many of these teachers making 10-15,000 a month, are paying little or nothing in taxes, after standard deductions. A friend at CMU (part-time) paid 550 baht last year...One teacher at cmu is teaching only 3 hours per week @ 250 per hour....about 3,000 baht per month. He still has a WP.

And even Burmese workers can get WP's.....

Ajarn,

The reason I assumed she lost face was because in later disscussion her work mates told me she had lost face. She was conned by a falang in front of her Thai friends and falang customers.

Wokka

Still doesn't sound like a con from a farang, I feel. Maybe something lost in the translation

It could also be that her friends were trying to save face for her, instead of saying she was hard headed or easy to anger, which might piss her off again ...

I don't know....I do so much guessing about such 'insider' situations, like we all have to here sometimes. I've sure been wrong plenty of times, too

When working with younger students, it's probably best to start off strict.  Set the ground rules.  Make them clear and enforce them.  Otherwise, the little ankle-biters will walk all over you.  If you remain reasonable, and encouraging, the students will want to please you.  Once that bond has created, loosen up a bit and enjoy the ride. 

Introduce a reward system.  Demerits are not the answer...when I was younger...we strove to see who could get the most demerits.  Nothing that discourages should be used. 

Absolutely great advice on classroom management!

perhaps declare them at customs?

will I be charged to bring them in?

I get DVD's sent from Amazon. com on a regular basis. When caught by customs, they take 30% of the top of everything, including the shipping charges you paid...

Of the DVD's ultimately delivered by the PO, it's been extremely rare (once out of 10 times..?) that they get a customs inspection and charge.

as many of you know i hold an on-line surgery once a week at which time i try to answer the myriad of concerns & problems that face the average ELT in the LoS...

one of the common questions that i'm asked by would-be ELT's goes something like, 'which TEFL certificate should i study for, one that would then enable me to be accepted for employment in thailands most esteemed hall of academia'... the 'plum' jobs if you like to put it that way...

now what do you think my response is?

Personally, if someone is planning to teach just in Thailand, I would recommend Text and Talk, or maybe the other local TEFL course offered, since both programs seem to try to relate their teaching to the Thai market, from reports I've heard, and local schools are mostly familiar with these local certs...

CELTA is internationaly recognized as being among the best entry-level courses, and it maintains it's reputation for quality partly because a rep from CELTA inspects EVERY course for quality and continuity. I was one of these course inspectors, for a time....If one's plan is to teach internationaly, this is the only course I would recommend. But, not if you're teaching just in Thailand, because I don't feel it gives adequate training in teaching kids, by far the biggest market for most newbie teachers in Thailand. CELTA is mostly designed for teaching adults. Admittedly, I'm pretty much out of the loop now on this issue, so there may have been some recent course changes I'm not aware of.

In any true International School, they demand real, qualified teachers. A CELTA or other such cert is only meaningfull in combination with a university degree related to your field of teaching, and/or a real Govt Teaching Certificate, such as required for teachers teaching in Public schools in the States or the UK.

In my experience in this culture, if I rant and yell at a Thai, or anyone else while they remain composed, I'm the one losing face, not them

I also like the idea mentioned above concerning helping people get started in a small business. It could even be something as cheap as financing a noodle cart, or paying to have a special bicycle-like vehicle made for someone physically handicapped, enabling him to sell lottery tickets to help support himself, and offering another person a way to feel more Pride in himself....

Lots of roads to follow for those with good intentions

Indeed Ajarn, one of the ideas I had was setting up an English school near the village that would be open to all the kids in the area and free to attend. Whether or not this would be practical or feasible I have yet to work out. I look forward to discussing this with you in the future.

I would be very interested in discussing this with you. Like you, I'm also keeping my eyes open for ways I can help support education with the resources I have..

For wamberal, I completely agree. The hardest part is often, for me, making the right contacts, with the right people. Speaking Thai is good, or at least someone with you who can, and who is thinking and understanding on your wave-length so they can better communicate and make decisions with families, puuyai baans, schools, etc., on your behalf. But, lots of caution here for the (relatively) clueless farang... like me. Lots of ways to get in over one's head, even with good intentions, as I've learned

I am interested to hear of how people help their wife's family or neighbours. Rather that hand over hard cash, what alternatives have you found to improve the lives of those you have come to know? Examples I can think of are taking someone to hospital for cataract removal and footing the bill, this must be a massive improvement to that persons life. Taking the family for a holiday. Fitting a water pump to the well.

Ideas welcomed.

First, let me complement you on your good heart and good intentions...It's great to see!

Being a teacher, I believe the gift of education is a gift that changes lives.

Fortunately, education isn't expensive here, so your baht can go a long way..

Even if your family is welll-enough off to provide for their kid's education, there are still plenty of families where this isn't true. If you'd like some info or suggestions about where/how to do this, please PM me.

Whatever you do, I would also suggest caution and forward-thinking when it comes to paying for things for others. It could bring out some of the worst in people, even family, and clear thinking must prevail on your part to avoid any possible future expectations you're not prepared for, or problems from some with the greedy (and potentially dangerous to you) 'how can I get some of that' thinking...

Whatever happens, never lose your good intentions or your generous heart

Will the salary increase be to the 60,000 baht a month the same Thai government sets as the minimum income a foreigner must show to stay in the Kingdom as a non-working resident? 

Foreign teachers only need 25-30,000 a month for a work permit.

Where did you get that? As far as I've heard and seem, there seems to be no lower salary limit for a work permit. I personally know of university teachers making far less than that, and they all have work permits...

Although I was not the instigator, I in a small way caused a BG to lose face. In Pattaya during Cobra Gold a US service man had a few beers in my local then instructed th BG to "Ring the bell". As the bell was six inches away from my head and she put a lot of effort into it my ears rang for quite a while.

On presentation of the bill the American said he was not paying as he did not ring the bell, she did. After much to-ing and fro-ing he agreed to pay the bill. By this time I had started laughing at her and stated that anyone who had worked in a bar as long as she had should know better. I suppose had my ears not been ringing I would have keep my mouth shut.

By this time she had lost so much face she refused payment of the bill so the bloke left. She also refused to allow the falang management to pay and stormed off to the ATM. Any customer who laughed or had a smile on their face received very little service that afternoon.

Wokka

Why do you assume she lost face? I don't think this is a situation of her losing face. Thais tease each other in similar situations, as you did, all the time, and such a response from her, from my experience, would be atributed by many other Thais more to her being 'hua keng', 'kii moho', etc., but not as a response to 'losing face' from your comments, or her actions of ringing the bell, which is done by bg's in such situations many times. It's not her fault if the farang is an ######, and everyone there knows that...

Didn't read all the comments.

In my opinion, from having been born in Thailand and lived in many Western countries (and now am in the UK), I have to say I find people not to be that different the world over.

I've made some farang lose face before, although they don't call it 'losing face', it is exactly the same thing.  And the consequence is no different than what I found in Thailand.

I don't think it is a purely Asian/Thai concept.  You might not call it 'losing face' in the West and you might not recognise it as such at first glance.  But if you really look into it and analyse it, it's exactly the same. 

There are numerous occasions when I challenge my western co-workers over certain things (in a polite manner, of course) and the reaction I got was either the same or worse than any Thais that I have the misfortune to cause them to lose face. 

It seems a bit strange to me when I see some farangs treat Thais in such a way they would not have done to others when they were at home, then blam it all on the 'face' thing when the Thais get angry.  I'm not saying it's all like that.  All I'm saying is that sometimes, the concept of face is just simple manner and consideration and it's not really such an alien thing for anybody from any culture.  I mean, I've had some farang friends complaining that they were annoyed with the face thing because the Thais get offended by their 'suggestions'.  When asked further what the suggestions were and how it was delivered, the reason for the hostile reaction is clearer.  When asked again whether they would have done this at home, my friends seem to pause and admitted that perhaps they were taking the holiday mentality a tad too far.

Another firend told me he was surprise that a Thai guy was angry with him after he accused the guy of stealing from him (it later emerged that the accusation was untrue).  The friend put it all down to 'the face thing'.  When I pointed out that anybody would have been annoyed with the false accusation (not to mention the lack of apology afterward), he said 'but that's different'.  When I ask him whether he would have been offended if that happens to him, he said 'yeah, but that's different.  I'm a farang.  It's not about face'.  But he couldn't explain what it was either (well from what he said, it looks like the 'face concept' to me hehehehe and I told him so hehehehhe).

I'm sure there are some people in Thailand with a strong concept of face which may be at a level higher than others.  But I can't agree with the belief that the concept is exclusively Asian/Thai. 

That's just my opinion anyway.

Excellent post. Thanks for your perspective.

That situation has been reported many times over the years... Perpetrated by both farang and thai.

Hello Ajarn, this wasn't directed at you or Ijustwannateach and I'm sure a few other teachers on this forum. I'm not ticked (too much) about it, it just seems ill placed to correct people's grammer,spelling or whatever when it's not what the thread is about. If this was the case, then these "other teachers" would have to quit their jobs because they would be too busy correcting people here.

I agree, Kringle. It's a cheap shot. In my experience, used by someone when they don't have the intellectual capacity, honesty, or manners to openly discuss/debate the topic at hand, or their own issues of anger/resentment/jealousy.

But, again, in my own experience, these haven't been teachers doing the correcting, just a couple of lame-brains (to quote the Three Stooges) trying to take a crap on someone, for whatever the real reason...I'm a cut-the-crap kinda guy, and I don't suffer these types easily.

I do find it interesting that teachers here seem to get a lot of shit, often undeserved, in my view. It is an honourable profession or vocation- and one of the toughest jobs around. I feel bummed when comments are made attacking all teachers here across the board. It's just not fair, in my book. If someone has an issue with someone, I'd like to see their issues focused where it should be- on that person or issue directly- rather than spread wide to ecompass all teachers, simply because of their profession, or because they use this forum....

What is it with these teachers that have come to Thai visa. Are they all so frustrated that they have to give English lessons on every thread or is it they have no reading comprehension. A topic starts out about something and then hyphens or some other silly missed comma or period gets introduced into to the thread and the teachers start bu11sh!tting about this. I don't speak or write "perfect" English and I doubt even the teachers on here could be right 100% of the time (or even close to that).

If you can't follow the subject matter, then you can't teach diddly. 

Hey, aren't you suppossed to be jolly, Mr. Kringle? I sure wouldn't want to get on your 'Naughty!' list

When I pee, I make sure there is no splash factor.  One of my pet peeves is the noise of pee going into the water in the toilet bowl (anyone else have this problem?).

me too!

I just don't pee directly into the water.

That's what the sink is for!

I'd feel a bit too much like Goldilocks entering the Bear's Lair.

Actually, I enjoy the mellowness of this place. I appreciate the civility shown here, and Thaivisa has certainly established itself as a much better place for discussions on the Social and Cultural aspects of Thailand than some other places I've been involved with

And look, I ended with a preposition...

Yeah, it takes a real special kind of teacher to do well with kids, and I know it isn't me. I just ain't got the energy anymore

I love kids, but on my terms

I've hired, trained, and supervised lots of kid teachers, though. I always fondly recall these teachers, both Farang and Thai. Teachers in Thai Prathom and Matayom schools are the hardest working teachers, by far, in my experience.

I went to BKK bank a few weeks back to add my name to my wifes account, she is still single as far as Thailand is concerned, I was only in LOS on a tourist visa, it was going to be no probs getting a ATM/debit card in my name, with just my passport, but what I wanted is a Visa/debit card, meaning I want to be able to pay for large purchases with the card and not have to go to an ATM before hand, still using my/our own money of course, not credit.

But was told this type of card was not available, does anyone know if this is correct?

Ta in advance

Can't speak for BKK Bank, but Kasikorn Bank has both options, and it's up to you, not the bank, in this case. The Visa Debit card, able to use outside of Thailand, too, is 300 baht, if I remember correctly.

I think anyone who's managed to finish high school can probably teach up through elementary-

^ Mate there was a thread on Ajarn a while ago that actually said teaching kids is probably harder than teaching adults. IMO and to an extent IME I'd take a good kids teacher over a good (normal) adult teacher any day of the week, far more flexible.

Also the thread mentioned that quite often you're paid more to teach kids (on average) as it is (or can be) so demanding?

I think teaching kids calls on teaching skills much more than when teaching adults. Because of a limited attention span, teachers must plan better for classes, as well as having good classroom management skills... Not to mention an enormous amount of energy and patience...

When teaching adults, there is usually a higher level of communication between teacher and students going on, and adults are much more patient with a teacher's lack of planning- they're much less likely to bounce off the walls...

Will the salary increase be to the 60,000 baht a month the same Thai government sets as the minimum income a foreigner must show to stay in the Kingdom as a non-working resident?

That's not true...

It's only to get a one year stamp. If you make less, you still don't neccessarily have to leave the country at all. It just means that immigration can make you come back every 90, 60, 30, or fewer days for another stamp.