Ajarn

Photo of Thai mom of missing baby believed to be in Thailand

I saw another story on the wires yesterday....An alleged child sex offender, on bail for charges, managed to get a passport and escape NZ authorities....It was presumed he was headed to Thailand to get work as a teacher...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2986643a7694,00.html

His photo and resume is posted on Ajarn.com

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:HHSm-...ane+Rahui&hl=en

Reporting this to the Dept of Labour didn't get me anywhere either.

If you mean the Labour Office, where you got your WP, you're right. They're not going to do anything themselves...

But, if you had seriously followed up and filed suit with The Central Labour Court, you might have found yourself pleasanly surprised at the outcome, assuming you were in the right, and your employeer in the wrong.

While I was living in Bkk, I had a fair amount of experience with the Thai Labour Court. In two companies that I worked for, I knew of 4 people, 3 farangs, 1 Thai, who had work grievences. Two were regarding overtime paid below the law's requirements (), one was unfair compensation when laid off one was for not receiving the mandated 90 days off for her pregancy, which forced her to quit. I went to court with these people, except for the Thai pregnant women. In each case, the judgement was in favour of the farangs, and the Thai women, and their employers had to pay up, which they did, including the extra fines, and the plaintiff's lawyers costs...

I have heard of other such stories about people taking their cases to the Labour Court. I have also been very impressed when reading about factory workers taking their cases to court, since they mostly seem to win their cases-- including the case involving Burmese workers in a Taiwanese factory near Mae Sot who went to court over wages and working conditions and won their case with a judgement, as I recall, of over 4 million baht...But, that's still in the enforcement process, and the guilty guys are dragging their feet as the attempt at collecting the award continues...

If you have some time, you might want to check out the Thai Labour code pertaining to employee's rights. You might be surprised how good the law is...Of course, in some cases, collecting might not be so easy.... http://www.boi.go.th/english/tid/data/DLPWlaw1a.htm

I can't speak for the Labour court since Thaksin came to power.... Things could be quite different now.

http://www.travelwizard.com/asia/ChaoPhray...9_Overview.html

http://www.hotelthailand.com/boat/bkk_river.html

http://www.hotelthailand.com/ezine/2004/issue3/zine4.html

http://bangkok.sawadee.com/canals.htm

Info on river cruises, with contact phone numbers

Too expensive for the size, and no clue to say it's not simply one of the typical crappy Thai cakes with frosting made from grease instead of butter, and the dry cake made using fake eggs, fake butter, and the cheapest of all other ingredients.

Such an analysis ... all sight unseen ... truly a scientific feat

There's a photo of the finished product, and yes, there is plenty enough to offer up my opinion. They show a 'medium' and you can approximate the size from the plates and utensils alongside to be about 8 inches (20cm) square....950 baht for just the cake, no lettering. And if it's not one of the cheap Thai style cakes, then they should, I think, emphasize the quality of their ingredients-- it might help to justify the price in the eyes of some

Tough bananas if you don't like my opinion. I call 'em the way I see them, TV.com advertiser, or not. And it is constructive criticism, which is more than I can say for your little snipe.

Too expensive for the size, and no clue to say it's not simply one of the typical crappy Thai cakes with frosting made from grease instead of butter, and the dry cake made using fake eggs, fake butter, and the cheapest of all other ingredients.

Chiang Mai is a serious dissapointment for any unsuspecting visitor unlucky enough to include it in it's itinerary.  Aggressive bothersome Taxis coloured Red, Low quality service,  Double charging.  Only good thing about Chiang Mai is the road to Doi Ithannon if one has the savvy to hire a car and get out of the dump.

Who would want to go to the Night Bazzar?  They can buy every product cheaper in MBK without the hassle and the Tacky Indian Suit Salesmen lurking around. 

It is like a second rate Sukhumvit.

I wouldn't ask you to look at Chiang Mai through rose-coloured glasses, but at least not the shit-coloured ones...

There really is much more to Chiang Mai, even within the city. I hope you'll come back and chill some, and share a smile with some locals. You'll feel better, I'm sure .

I agree about MBK, though. What an amazing place to shop

Must admit there are times when my English vocabulary deserts me and I can only think of a Thai word.

Thanks p1p.

I thought it was just me.

Try this with your Thai mates...

1. "'What' ple waa aray?

2. Aray

1. 'What' ple waa aray?

2. Aray (still maintaing their patience)

a couple or three rounds later, patience is exhausted....

1. 'What', ple waa aray?

2. What ple waa aray!

1.....chay

Of course, you'll likely need to follow up with a clear explanation of what just happened (assuming you get it )

what ple waa aray.

tawp waa, 'chay'

....Failure to do so could likely get you further into the 'farang baa!' category...

It may not seem funny, but Thais really seem to get into the word plays, and they always laugh heartily-- in the end.

I'm okay to carry that 'baa' monicker with some people. People are less likely to annoy the baa ones, na'?

I agree with about two things in that article, and one of them isn't in it:

1. The night safari project is a waste of money. How about promoting real nature and getting rid of the 200 baht entrance fee for tourists.

2. Building 4-5 5 new star hotels is a bit rediculous. I don't think Chiang Mai is has ever been a destination for high spending business and leisure travellers. Building hotels IMHO will not change that. Oh well, worst case scenario is that we're going to end up with 4-5 really nice all be it slightly run down mid-range hotels. :-))

The rest is like 'almost, but too superficial, resulting in being a waste of time reading the article'.

Like: "Already the pollution is terrible" is not a true statement. But it is an 'almost' kind of thing to write, because there definitely is an issue with air quality in the hot & dry season, where the valley location and burning the fields results in bad smog for about 2 months of the year. Outside of this period the air quality is excellent, no comparison at all to Bangkok. But yes there's an issue and efforts could be spent to reduce pollution during the hot & dry season.

"Chiang Mai has no buses and taxis" Well hello... Didn't they notice those red converted pick-ups all over the place? Or the Aircon bus # 10? Or that a meter taxi service is starting in the city? This makes this statement factually untrue. Granted, there aren't many meter taxis to be a viable service yet, but why would any journalist not mention the apparent efforts to get this started?

"Already the pollution is terrible, there are a lot of urban problems and we are going in the direction of Bangkok," The article fails to mention THREE giant ring roads (2 of which have been completed) and new tunnels on the inner ring road to drive traffic and development away from the old town center. The complete municpal and provincial governments have already been moved way out near Mae Rim. Why would any jounalist not mention these efforts to preserve the old center, where indeed high-rises are not allowed. (hi-rise Rydges hotel being the odd one out, though it's techinically just outside the old city.

"getting ugly": Looking at old pictures of Chiang Mai, I think the moat area has never looked so beautiful as it does now, with actual pavements there, lighting, fountains, trees, etc, etc. Temples also completely look the same, and Chiang Mai has a shitload of them in the old city area.

"Anyone who comes looking for signs of a 700-year-old city is going to be very disappointed." Only if they are blind.

"But those arrivals were down 5.45 percent from 2002"  --- SARS, 9/11, (end 2002!), Bali, war... Jesus..! .Is this for the high-school paper or something? At the VERY least a journalist has to show that this drop is higher compared to the rest of Thailand/Asia.

The thing is, I think too many journalists are looking for an 'angle', mostly a 'problem' and then just write an article around it. You could just as easily write a positive article on all the things that are happening to improve tourism (and quality of life, for that matter). Pick you angle and type away..

I agree. The article was mostly crap.

But, I feel the bad air pollution is easily more than 2 months per year, last year it was roughly from December to May, from my view. And last year was the worst in memory....Once the dry season starts, that's the end of blue sky to most of us living here until there's rain...

If the government simply enforced the laws on open fires, both in the forests and in our neighborhoods, I think most of the problems with air pollution would go away...

I will agree with the concept that the Thai Government doesn't seem to understand exactly why tourists come to Thailand. Like us, the tourists want to find the 'old' Thailand, not KFC......!

His swimming pool is posted in the Photo section.  Looks like a nice lap pool.  What did it run you to construct, Adjarn?

If it's in the photo section, I didn't post it there. Maybe Geo moved it....I had originaly posted the photo in a thread on pool building that someone else started in the Chiang Mai section. A number of people are building them now, and there are many pitfalls to construction. I finished mine 4 months ago.

Anyway, since it's way off topic here, please PM me for details, if really interested.

Wow guys, Jai Yen. No need for personal slagging, eh? Flame posts, not posters! 

A supreme irony here. The topic is about losing face and a few posters here are doing the best they can to make another poster lose face. It seems so petty. Stop drinking gin! Stick to Chang or something a little more mellow!

One main point of losing face is that it's always a personal choice, I believe.

Nobody can make you lose face.

Wow guys, Jai Yen. No need for personal slagging, eh? Flame posts, not posters! 

I think no one likes having their nose put out of joint by being publically criticised or critisised by a junior (just as Ajarn said I believe). I think the difference is in the response - whether immediate or postponed - as several have said and Ajarn conceeded.

I think in the west our society has been built on a hierarchical working structure - at least for the last few generations. The third world has mostly been farming communities. They are used to having people above them as far as kings, governers, monks, officials, etc. but not taking a direct active part in their work. A governer or king may create laws and the police will enforce it, but it is unlikely that they will come directly to you and tell you what you are doing is wrong (or worthless if they are being fired). In the west we have grown up with this "office mentality", we expect our bosses pat-on-the-back or harsh word, pay rise, promotion or sacking. It has been part of our culture for long enough to become accepted - even then though we feel hard done by, we have just learnt to accept it.

An example. As with many posting here, I'm in the IT world. I am self employed and work on a contract basis. A major international retailer has been my client for 7 years and I know a lot of people there (UK based - go on you can guess which one). Just recently they have started outsourcing IT contracts wholemeal to Indian companies (trading quality for price - sorry, but its true). Many long term contractors (not me though) lost their contracts; most only had the single client and worked full time on site. Many were upset that they had been replaced by very poorly skilled versions of themselves. They took umbridge and felt very hard done by. They did not even work for the company, yet they had 'lost face' as the company had seen them as not-worth-the-cost and replaced them with complete <deleted> (believe me I lie not). Many entertaining leaving speaches were made. The difference is that none of them came back with a 9mm Barreta.

Thanks for making better sense of my words. Maybe some of my shorthand is sometimes too short

The feelings from being disrespected or shat upon, I believe, are pretty universal. Seems natural to feel angry/vengeful under such circumstances.

But as wolf also illustrated, it's the reaction that's different, based largely on cultural background and training, and individual characters. Thais are still individuals, even with their strong societal rules and customs. Just as a westerner might just let it roll off, the Thai always has 'mai pen rai' as the equivalent, should they choose that- and I always hope they do, when it involves me

East or West, face is the same, in my experience. Only the individuals are different. Feelings are the same.

One of these days I'll probably say something so idiotic and stupid on this forum that I'll never post again due to loss of face. Oh, wait a minute; that's multiple nicks are for!

And just when I thought you might be a reasonable person, interested in open and civil discussion of an issue....

You made your point. I responded with mine in detail, and asked for further input and opinions.

And you reply with shit.

Ajarn has no clue about cultural differences between Thailand and the west, the fact that he's a farang and calls himself "ajarn" and then utters crap says enough

You want to be very careful of getting on the wrong side of "ajarn" as he is very well connected, rich (he has a maid you know) and if you are very unlucky he will send you a photo of his swimming pool.

Not only that he will tell you about his wonderful car and how it suits him as he only has the use of his right arm.

do good get good

do bad get bad

It can only be guessed at to what a <deleted> he was was to get what he got.

Oh, the fragile ego surfaces again.

Why can't you face me like a man? I already explained to you how do that, remember?

Of course, if you're not a man, then never mind.

Xenophobia is the word you are looking for.

Fear is strangers, and they don't get any stranger than some of us!!

Well said!

East or West, face is the same, in my experience. Only the individuals are different. Feelings are the same.

I'm not so sure about this Ajarn. I think Farangs tend to 'shrug off' a mistake or a 'difference of opinion,' but a Thai will often let their emotions take over. Often times this emotion leads to irrational behavior that could have been avoided with

a simple exchange of ideas. Often hired help just disappears because they did something silly that is inconsequential to the employer, and the employer lets them know there is no harm done. The next day the worker is gone; unable to face the employer. The last thing the employer wanted was the employee to leave.

Oh well.

Ajarn has no clue about cultural differences between Thailand and the west, the fact that he's a farang and calls himself "ajarn" and then utters crap says enough.

Hey, kindly piss off if you're not going to be civil here. Just because my opinion is different than yours, no need to get so angry and respond with such infantile garbage.

East or West, face is the same, in my experience. Only the individuals are different. Feelings are the same.

I'm not so sure about this Ajarn. I think Farangs tend to 'shrug off' a mistake or a 'difference of opinion,' but a Thai will often let their emotions take over. Often times this emotion leads to irrational behavior that could have been avoided with

a simple exchange of ideas. Often hired help just disappears because they did something silly that is inconsequential to the employer, and the employer lets them know there is no harm done. The next day the worker is gone; unable to face the employer. The last thing the employer wanted was the employee to leave.

Oh well.

Yes, I see your points, and I agree that many Thais/Asians will not likely shrug off the feeling when they feel they've lost face, but I don't know many westerners who do, either. Look at road rage in the States as a reaction to losing face...or someone jumping a que, or a westerner's reaction to any number of perceived personal insults. Is there really much difference here?

I see that it's maybe more likely that a westerner will NOT shrug it off, but will make their feelings known right away, in many cases. Maybe most Thais will not show it directly, at least at first, but will be more sideways in their response, and that feeling might last a lot longer, it seems to me... But, grudges over lost face type situations in the West can last a long time, too...The Hatfields and the McCoys come to mind...

Frankly, I often find it difficult to really know what's going on inside of Thais under such situations, and my perceptions have been wrong plenty of times on an individual basis, when I've been able to get to the heart....I don't think it is easy for any of us foreigners to 'read' a Thai, in many cases.

I really think this is an interesting question, and I would like to hear more feedback from others on this topic of whether there are any inherrent differences between losing face in the West, vs the East. I still sense it feels the same to all of us to lose face, but our reactions are different due to cultural and personal differences.

East or West, face is the same, in my experience. Only the individuals are different. Feelings are the same.

Coming back to Los, I ask this hypothetical question. Are they willing to start an Anti

corruption agency to combat corruption. I will answer this. " Not in this century ".

That is what Thailand is all about.

Wrong. Thailand has the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) which actually was an effective body until Thaksin came to power and corrupted it to save his own ass...Now, it's effectiveness has been muted by Thaksin's government policy corruption.

And I don't believe corruption is under control in Malaysia or Singapore, but the freedom to talk much about it in public sure is....

But, don't worry. Thaksin is doing all he can to be just like Malaysia and Singapore. He's said so on a number of occasions

Excellent question...

When I used to teach, as part of every conversation course, I would ask each student, "What do you like to do in your free time" Typically, their answer included, "read books!".....But, further examination always seemed to reveal it as "Joker (comic) books"...

Much of the problem is what's available. Most of the small shops sell these comic books because they're cheaper and better selling than the 'better quality' books....

The Harry Potter series has been great, I think. I even have Thai adults asking me about it. And the content in Harry Potter is surely better than what's in most comics, especially the ones from Japan with all the sexual violence and stuff...

As more and more books become available in the Thai language,as the base of English readers increases, and as television programming broadens its scope more internationally, people will start, hopefully, to become more interested in reading more than comic books, or at least drop them for something maybe more productive and mind-expanding.

As for re-motivating a 13 year old, good luck.

If he's resisting because the reading material is boring, then make it more interesting, either in the material, and/or how you present it to them

Praise him when he starts to follow the right path, too. All kids appreciate good guidance.

But, if his resistance is simply because he thinks it will wind you up (not unusual for teenagers in any culture, in my experience!), then that's when I hope your good luck will help you

Have your wife do it,,thats what I do and she does good work,had to beat her a few times but they get the idea after awhile.

My now ex-wife found the Lord a couple of years ago and became a missionary...

I'm sure she'd wax my car for the Lord, but, sure as H.E.L.L. , she wouldn't wax it for me!

I've got my housekeeper washing it now, but I think that's her limit, and I fear pushing my luck on this one, especially since she's now cleaning a pool everyday, too....

Onward, through the fog

My wife always told me if you ever get in an accident leave the scene immediately if you are able. If you get caught later it's not kike leaving the scene here in the US.

You don't get in any additional trouble?

BAD advice for a farang.

the hearing of my case had been appointed for next tusday at the police station.  can anybody recomend a reliable lawyer in pattaya?how much bearing on the case is the lawyer able to give ?  if its gonna be a straight forward police judgement i think we will be exonerated from any guit quickly but the other party are 3 old thai ladies who were in the car and God onlly knows what  kind of strings they are going to pull..

i went to see the impounded car and i found out that the other car is also there.

Dick, I would suggest you contact your embassy for any recommendations for a lawyer. And Buyer Beware is good advice for lawyers, too

Sorry I can't answer your questions, but from what you've said, you seem to be getting fair treatment, at least so far...

Just try to stay cool .

this morning i was driving with my  thai girlfriend on the highway outside pattaya when we were hit by the car manned by 3 thai ladies.the driver was talking on the mobile phone when it all happend.our car flew in to the ditch.their car was quite badly damages too.  when the plice arrived after some 20 minutes the lady put blame on me without even having proper motivation for it.we just purchased the car yesterday and were going to the car registration office in chonbury when it happend.the other car neither we have an insurance. after brief conversation with sides police towed our car to the police station and didn't want to give it bak to us untill some kind of hearing next week.  can somebody give me a good advise what should i do in this case?it was clearely not my fault but taking account of all the stories mentioned here about accidents involving farang a am starting to get pessimistical about fair outcome..

Bummer, Dick. And you just bought it the day before....

If it's any comfort, in all of the accidents involving farangs that I've been involved with, the cops treated everyone equally. I've heard many stories of farangs getting screwed in such a situations, but it hasn't been my experience..

But, as we all know, cops here are basically unpredictable, and anything can happen. For that reason, the advice to get a lawyer is a good one... And have plenty of cash at hand....

Here, the first question is likely to be, "Khray chon khray?" (who hit who?) Failing to get agreement on this point, they will look to see who has the frontend damage, or whose collision point is furthest to the front of the vehicle...Blame is normally fixed on the 'hitter'.

Last week in Chiang Mai, a bike rider violated a red light and tried to make an illegal u turn. At the apex of his turn, he got plowed by a PU truck. Where I'm from, the cops would automatically fix blame on the biker because of his violating the red light. Here, the driver of the PU was arrested for reckless driving....

The reasoning behind this, as was explained to me, is that the Basic Driving Law is that a driver must drive safely, and remain in control of his vehicle....The cops feel that if you are driving safely, you should be able to avoid hitting the other car because it was in front of you and should be visible to you, and you should have been at a safe distance away. When two cars are driving abreast, as it seems to have been in your case, the driver in front, even nitnoy, is the 'owner' of the road (cawkhong thanon). As such, any collision would likely show a collision point further back from the front on the vehicle who was in front when the collision occured..Or so the theory goes. Maybe the extensive damage to both vehicles makes that point hard to judge in your case...

Good luck, sir.

DIY

With only one hand I can use, I have to use it to hold my crutch so I can walk (my left side is paralyzed), and that leaves me with only being able to do such a job from my wheelchair, which isn't really practical, is it?