brucetefl

In fact every Thai immigration officer knows (or can easily verify) Thongsook College is accredited. There will be no issues.

Do you think they check to see if every program from every university is INDIVIDUALLY accredited?

"Oh, you studied English Liturature, I better check to make shre that DEGREE was accredited. I know the English major at XYZ college is accredited but not so sure about English Lit!"

You guys are taking this to a ridiculous extreme. Is it intentional?

I am sure once this gets going and there is more "evidence" many people will feel better.

But as was said on another thread in another forum:

It seems to me that it would be rather silly for Thongsook College, an Instituteof Higher Learning recognized by the Thai MOE and CHE, would jeopardize that status by offering a degree that was not 100% legitimate.

Maybe I am missing something??

Actually yesterday I called Payup University and spoke to the woman who apparently runs their international department. She is Thai but spoke English quite well.

Unfortunately she knew no one named Richard who worked in the International Department. Maybe he is using a fake name here in the forum.

"Richard" I would love to contact you to clear up some errors in your post.

It is a shame that Richard10365 can not shed a little light on the subject of how to verify the status of a single course or how we would check on his University, especially as he seems to believe that the University (Thongsook) has not been accredited. It might help with other people's research. Infact anybody who works in a University may be able to help with this.

By the way, how many students at ABAC, Chula or even at other programs at Thongsook ask to see the actual CHE approval document?

Thats right. None.

Please do not argue this fact. If a Thai person walke into the university and demanded to see what you are asking to see they would be laughed out of the office (and thats if they were lucky).

In fact, when I ask my colleagues at Thngsook for some documentation they will all think the same thing:

farang yoong yaak

I have no idea if I will have any additional info about accreditation at the open house. i have not been hiding anything. I doubt anything new will come up between now and then. But I will be able to repeat the same procedure again if anyone wants to hear it.

"I have NOT called you a liar. I have stated that I do not believe the way the course has been supposedly accredited as you have no confirmation in writing. This is Thailand everything gets stamped and triplicated. My disbelief is aimed at your statements not yourself."

I had a good laugh at this one. I am not calling you a liar. I just think what you are saying is untrue. its not you, it what you are telling me!

LOL

ok

Can you tell me when i asked you for money? in fact I have told everyone not to even bother to pay until after the Open House on the 2nd.

And I have answered these questions many times and given detailed descriptions of the current status of the program. There is a defined process. I did not create it. i just follow it. it may not be what you like or want. I have no control over that. I can only follow the process and that is exactly what I and my colleagues at Thongsook have done.

But any time you publicly question someones honesty, multiple times, its personal. There is no other way to spin it.

So you will have more information available about the accredited status at the open house .. well why did you not say that.

And off course the applicants will have to pay for the course. Deposits. Course fees etc.

I have NOT called you a liar. I have stated that I do not believe the way the course has been supposedly accredited as you have no confirmation in writing. This is Thailand everything gets stamped and triplicated. My disbelief is aimed at your statements not yourself.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Can you tell me when i asked you for money? in fact I have told everyone not to even bother to pay until after the Open House on the 2nd.

And I have answered these questions many times and given detailed descriptions of the current status of the program. There is a defined process. I did not create it. i just follow it. it may not be what you like or want. I have no control over that. I can only follow the process and that is exactly what I and my colleagues at Thongsook have done.

But any time you publicly question someones honesty, multiple times, its personal. There is no other way to spin it.

I only explained the process in detail SEVERAL times. I thought it was already very clear. I think most of the people reading this thread would agree.

Dare I suggest that none of the "experts" questioning this program and especially you, thaicbr, have ever actually developed a BA program in Thailand? It seems very obvious none have, at least under the current rules.

And as I have also said at least 10 times, the process calls for us to submit the program to the CHE and they are under no obligation to respond. They responded to the first submission with questions. We made changes and resubmitted and are now legally operating the course. If they do eventually send us some documentation, and I have no idea if they do or not (its not mentioned in the CHE rules), we do not have it.

If this is not acceptable to anyone I suggest you wait for a future date to join the course. We already have a strong interest in the program and we plan to cap it at 30 this first term.

Actually you did not quote the question at all.

So here goes again. Please note the question marks this time.

"Do you have the BA tesol course accreditation in writing from the THAI Ministry of Education. And is it available for prospective customers to view "

Please note its a 2 part question. Thanks

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I quoted your question. Its just before my answer.

Obviously some people are legitimately interested and enthusiastic about this program and have had reasonable and legitimate questions. Some, not so much. Honestly I think the people who are so unconvinced would simply be more trouble than they are worth, complaining and questioning everything. I and the other participants are probably better off if they do not join.

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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And I have answered at least 50 times.

YES

Ummm yes what?

That you have the MOE ACCREDITATION in writing?

Or that you have nothing in writing just an excerpt from a rule book saying that maybe possibly only on Wednesday when there is a full moon we might have accreditation

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If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

It really is a simply question to answer if you have the accreditation.

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And I have answered at least 50 times.

YES

If you feel that way then please do not sign up for the program. Good luck.

I have answered the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

If anyone wants to discuss this further go read the thread on thailandteaching.asia

So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

Bruce. Why don't you answer the questions with clear transparent answers rather than getting your knickers in a twist about forums.

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So its your theory that I am baytur?

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid discussion forums.

Loaded I believe you are confusing the process necessary from a 15/1 (Basic Education) or 15/2 (APACE) school and a university. They are similar but also vastly different. For instance, no degree program is submitted to the LOCAL MOE. it all goes to CHE. Universities are given much more authority and control than 15/1 and 15/2 schools.

I have explained the process in detail. There is nothing more I can do.

^ Sorry, I think there's some confusion... I was on about how the MoE/CHE give accreditation to a particular course (like the BA TESOL) once they have approved and accredited it?

So TSC should have an official document from the MoE/CHE that's been stamped, and given an official license number for this particular BA?

Does every degree course has a specific accreditation/licensing number, that's given once it has been approved?

As I understand things, and my experience was a few years ago, the curriculum for a course such as the BA TESOL needs to be approved by the MoE. When approved, a letter is issued by the local MoE office that gives a registration/accreditation number. If curriculum are approved as part of the original school license application, they are part of the original school license document. I have absolutely no reason to doubt Bruce has approval for this course. I imagine though that the documents are held by Thongsook College which makes it very difficult for Bruce to walk in and photocopy them or even obtain registration numbers. I think he should though and publicize on his website because people are going to continue asking these questions otherwise.

i am going out now and will not be able to answer any more questions for at least a few hours.

To loaded:

Thongsook was accredited in 1995. its not a new college.

According to the rule book, after the AC submits the program to the CHE, the CHE has 60 days to make any comments. If they do not make any comments the degree automatically becomes official in 60 days.

We went through this process 6 months ago already and they asked us to clarify a few points. It was then submitted again to the AC and UC and resubmitted. The CHE rarely makes any big changes once a degree program has gone through all the steps necessary. But they may make some minor changes and adjust a few things in cooperation with the university.

According to the rules, as soon as the UC approve a degree it can be marketed and the program can begin accepting students. We did not do so the first time through as a precaution. We waited until the initial changes were made and went back through the process.

As I have stated many times including this forum, this progam is a degree from an accredited Thai college. We make NO other promises about waivers and TKT exams.

It would be helpful if you would quit asking the same questions over and over again.

You can believe me or not. That's up to you. I have explained in detail the approval process. We have completed it.

But just to clarify, you say it is 'legally accredited by the CHE by way of them ignoring it for the legal period of time, which automatically gives it legal accreditation'?

Sorry to bother you Bruce, but do you know how we can get info from the CHE about courses in Thailand that they accredit?

Bruce. This exactly the conflicting information that has appeared on many forums. Mainly from yourself.

Here are some simple questions to answer.

Is this course accredited by the MOE and do you have that in writing?

Is this degree accepted by TCT for further waivers until graduated?

Thanks

sent from my Wellcom A90+

As you can probably understand, its not I who deals with the CHE. In fact, I had to have the degree proposal re-translated back to English so i could know of any changes that had been made.

But I also had the Thai rule book for having degrees approved by the CHE translated for me so i knew the process.

I also spoke to a colleague who had his degree program approved through the CHE at Asian University.

I also spoke to my friend Dr. Om, a PhD (Indiana USA) and current instructor at Burapha University and former head of the International Business program at Mahidol.

The book and my two colleagues have all confirmed the process. And we have completed that process. I attended the AC and UC and after the conclusion had a celebration dinner with the Thongsook College's President. That was nearly 2 months ago. The AC submitted the proposal to the CHE at that time. I was not personally present.

if this process is inadequate in your eyes all I can suggest is not joining. I have no idea what else to say.

The BEd would take up to five years. This program, although it is a full 120 credits, can be completed in 3. We felt it was not worht the trade off.

Also Bruce. I have to ask. Why is it a BA. And not a B'Ed which is required for a teachers license. I know the CHE asked the same question!

also do the TCT recognize this course as advancement so allowing continued waivers. Can you start taking the TCT tests before you have graduated the course ?

That's after all why many people will do the course to enable continued work and the TCT license.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

You can believe me or not. That's up to you. I have explained in detail the approval process. We have completed it.

If universities in Thailand have been running unaccredited degrees it is news to me. I hope they took away their accreditation.

In our case it is not the case. You are welcome to investigate this matter. But further discussion seems pointless at this time.

Again we will hold an open house on 2 June at 10 am at Thongsook College. If anyone would like to attend it is not far from the Southern Bus Terminal and Mahidol International Campus.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=thongsuk+college+bangkok&hl=en&ll=13.768064,100.442162&spn=0.112375,0.220757&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=46.630055,113.027344&hq=thongsuk+college&hnear=Bangkok,+Thailand&t=m&z=12

Actually the CHE can just ignore the proposal and allow it to operate without even responding. Thats the way the rule book is written. I do not write the rules I just follow them.

Honestly do you think an accredited college in Thailand would run a program illegally?

If you really are that distrustful I strongly suggest either coming to the open house or just not taking the degree program.

I would recommend anyone check out the thread on thailandteaching.asia

Yes you are absolutely correct. It is a degree, nothing more nothing less.

But even with this the TCT won't grant a TL, they are only interested in a BA in Education so you'll still have to take the nonsensical, pointless and degrading TCT tests with huge amounts of grammatical errors and often don't have a correct answer in the multiple choice options.

Yes you are absolutely correct. It is a degree, nothing more nothing less.

But even with this the TCT won't grant a TL, they are only interested in a BA in Education so you'll still have to take the nonsensical, pointless and degrading TCT tests with huge amounts of grammatical errors and often don't have a correct answer in the multiple choice options.

I am certain that the MOE can confirm that Thongsook College is accredited by the CHE. Here is the colleges Thai website:

http://www.thongsook.ac.th/index3.php

For anyone interested, the process of getting a degree approved is the following:

Develop the degree. it must be in a format called TQF.

Have a panel of academics review the program and make suggestions. n our case our review panel included David Nunan and Brian Tomlinson.

Submit the program to the university Academic Committee for approval.

Once the Academic Committee accepts the program it is submitted to the University Council.

Once the University Council has approved it, it is sent to CHE for final approval. traditionally once the UC has approved it, it is legal and acceptable to begin accepting students for admission. In our case the program was sent to CHE and we did not begin marketing it. There were some clarifications that CHE wished to make and we answered a few of their questions and made some modifications. It was then resubmitted to both the AC and UC and sent to CHE again.

I can assure anyone reading this, including my slightly misguided friend at Payup, that this program has been fully vetted.

Just to let everyone know, Thongsook College is accredited by the MOE and the new international BA in TESOL has gone through all legal procedures to begin operations.

There will be an open house on campus on 2 June at 10 am. if you want to come and ask questions you are more than welcome.

I openly wonder why someone with an obvious conflict of interest would post untrue and negative comments about another institution of higher education on a public message board. Its certainly not very professional.