brucetefl

I am pretty sure the TCT want a Masters in some form of Education-related area.

By the way, what are the course fees for the three universities you listed?

BV

Sorry I think my answer was wrong.

And those skills would only be available to a person who specifically studied Education.

I don't have a problem with degrees or no degrees.   I have a problem of teachers being expected to perform like a person with a degree when they don't have one.   A native speaker can be used effectively and efficiently in the classroom to help the students to learn to listen and speak the language.   If they are not otherwise qualified, they probably shouldn't be helping with curriculum development, test design and other matters.  

 

 

Marketing and sales.

Schools want white faces to sell to the students and the parents.

Thats not changing.

 

it took him two days but he got a job.  He had to settle for 35,000.

 

I hear what you're saying Bruce, but I think those days are numbered for 'whiteys'.

 

Why employ one white face with no experience and no degree, when you can employ 2 qualified Filipino/a teachers for 30,000 baht total?

 

Just recently a friend of mine came to visit Thailand.  Young guy, only 21.  He had not planned to stay but eventually he decided to.  He has no degree.  He decided to try teaching English.

He went into interviews and said the following:

"I have never taught English before.  I have no degree.  I want something easy.  No lesson planning.  Just go in and teach with lesson plans you give me.  I want 40,000 per month."

it took him two days but he got a job.  He had to settle for 35,000.

 

Surely there must be a demand for someone like me.

 

I'm sure there is.  But you can scan the teaching vacancies on Ajarn web-site today and see schools in Phuket offering 15,000 baht for a degree-qualified Filipino/a to teach English to primary kids.

 

Will you accept that job for 15,000 baht per month?  Perhaps 10,000 baht because you don't have a degree?

 

 

 

The majority of the world that employs EFL teachers demand a degree as the minimum requirement for employment.

From and academic perspective, how can someone without a degree be a role model for future generations to further their education?  It isn't always about ability or intelligence it is about academic achievement.

 

Unrelated degrees are an academic qualification and train people in skills not just knowledge. The skills that one picks up allows them to be more independent acquiring knowledge.  A lot of the skills that I learned was about analyzing the quality of information. I doubt most uneducated people have that skill when it comes to acquiring information outside of their field or knowledge circle.

 

 

Are you saying that people without university degree are uneducated?

 

When I was at school, none of the teachers said anything about their degrees and we never thought about it. Therefore, just because the teacher has, or does not have, a degree, it is irrelevant as far as providing a role model. Had I known that the incompetent, useless teachers I had were the product of universities, it would have just made me even more convinced that I didn't need a degree.

 

To say that I can't assess the quality of information because I never went to uni is just insulting and arrogant. It is also a trait of many of the uni degree holders that I have met, but it does not, in fact, mean that they are in any way competent or have any common sense. Many of the Drs that I worked with lacked even a modicum of common sense, though they were undoubtedly intelligent.

 

 

Quite frankly, after reading that post I wouldn't want you teaching my kids.  And in my opinion, no educational institute should consider hiring you as an instructor.

 

Why?  Because he does not bow to those with degrees?  Hey I have an MBA and about to start a PhD program.  I am far from anti education.

But lets remember...

Bill Gates, college drop out.

Steve Jobs, college drop out.

The degree rule has some benefits.  And it makes a limited amount of sense.  But for anyone to infer that those without degrees are incapable of being successful English teachers in Thailand is absurd.  

Some might find these documents helpful:

BA_TESOL_Course_Modules_Description.pdf

Bachelors of Arts in TESOL Degree Plan.pdf

I have owned two different Fortuners. This one has 280,000 km and still running fine, as long as I can keep the ridiculously drunk drivers in Thailand from running into me.

They seem to keep their value well, too.

No one ever accused me of being a conventional thinker.

Cue the crazies who will accuse me of... something hahaha

Its not that amazingly difficult if you take some time to plan it.

Start with believe. Do you believe me?

Then do don't believe.

Then to unbelievable.

How do you explain unbelievable on the board, when using chalk, or a marker???

Of course there are many ways to teach. Maybe something a bit more important is what ways are effective and which ways are not. Thai teachers use grammar translation. See how well it works?

Of course we should all be reflective teachers--reflecting upon our lessons and deciding what worked (helped the students learn a bit, not made life easier for us) and what didn't.

There are basically 2 types of language spoken in the classroom:

Classroom-based Language: Stand up, sit down, turn your books to page 21, go to the doctor because you have been stabbed...

And Lesson-based Language. That comes from the book!

Generally speaking, you only would use L2 for Classroom-based Language if your students knew it already, basically they already knew a lot of English. Most TESOL courses would train you to use hand gestures if you cannot speak the local language. its not that difficult to do.

And, again, generally speaking, you never use L1 when in the Lesson portion of the class. You had the lesson beforehand. You should have had things prepared to model the language and meaning.

If I had to choose the best Chinese teacher I would choose the best teacher. That has nothing to do with their ability to speak speak English.

I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school. We mainly spoke English with the teacher explaining the Spanish. I remember almost none of it. Como se yamo? May yamo Bruce. Thats pretty much it.

I "studied" Cantonese in Hong Kong basically by speaking to people on the streets for 18 months. I am still basically fluent.

There is not some law that says you cannot use L1 in the classroom. But any teacher that spends more than a few moments of the class speaking L1 is fooling themselves into thinking its helpful.

I know some Thai teachers what translate most of what they say in English into Thai.

Do you think the students ever struggle to understand? Of course not. They just wait for the translation.

Anyone who has taken any TESOL course worth its salt will know how to model language (they may use a different terminology).

Context setting and modeling are key.

I speak Cantonese and Mandarin pretty well (used to fluent until too many years in Thailand). When I taught in Hong Kong and China I would not use them because once I spoke Chinese to my students they usually decided they never had to speak another word of English to me again.

Never is a strong word, but lets put it this way: Thai English teachers speak Thai to describe and explain things about English. How well does that seem to work?

Exactly.

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

I go back to my initial idea of requiring all teachers that do not have degrees in education or an education related field, whether they have other degrees or not, teach as volunteers for a certain amount of time in Thai government schools.  Perhaps make the minimum qualification a certificate course.

 The first month in the school they simply assist the Thai teacher.

 The second month of the school they Teach a certain number of classes while being observed by the Thai teacher.

 The third month they teach a full schedule with no assistance.

 If they complete this internship they should be allowed to teach legally in Thailand.  It's far cheaper than getting a degree, especially got home works ridiculously expensive, it would benefit Thai schools and even the teachers there, and it would, as they say, Separate the wheat from the chaff.

I think it depends on the high school.  Mine was pretty pathetic.

They could always get qualified here in Thailand.  There are several options.

Thanks, Mods.

A degree is the official minimum qualification for being an English teacher in Thailand.

Where have I said anything different?

Can you be employed without one? Yes. There are thousand of teachers currently working without degrees. We all know that is a simple fact.

Do teachers working on visas other than B get fined or deported? Fair to say almost never.

Can you get a provisional teachers license from TCT without a degree? My second-hand information tells me yes. I have set up a meeting with TCT to find out more.

Why so many of you want to dump all of your life frustrations on me I will never know. I can tell you I do not lose sleep over it. I can only assume a few of you feel angry, frustrated and unfulfilled in your life and these forums are your means of venting.

I will just keep posting the truth. Because I do not need to be an anonymous bully on a forum to feel good about myself.

None of this has anything to do with the OP. I was the first to answer his question, after five or six needlessly angry and pointless posts, explaining the seasonal hiring periods for English teachers. I know, I just answered his question honestly and accurately because I have some financial interest.... Sure. That must be it.

I've been here around 20 years (not all of that time was spent teaching), but I believe a degree has been a requirement all that time.

Its not actually the topic of this thread nor do I really know.

You are correct, Loaded.

I'm not convinced it's possible for his, or any, students to obtain a work permit with a non-immigrant ED visa from Thongsook College.

Anyway, I think Bruce was suggesting that they didn't use an ED to get their work permits. I assumed they obtained a B or O (marriage to a Thai) and their employer school, perhaps non-formal, obtained a work permit for them.

So to summarize all of your ranting:

OK, its absolutely true we have no first or second-hand knowledge of people being fined or imprisoned for working on an Education or O our Tourist visa. That sure makes us mad so lets call Bruce names!

Well one guy did get fined 500 baht because his ex, a teacher at the same school, turned him in. I guess you could say it was cheaper than a bar fine? Wait, there is no such thing as bar fines because that would mean prostitution is legal in Thailand. It isn't.

As far as I know, in Thailand you cannot get a work permit with an Education visa. You need to get a B visa (through a waiver?).

And so far, no one has asked UNIVERSITY students to have any proof of income. Apples and oranges with Thai language schools.

And I posted the law. Was it on this thread or another?

Basically anything you do, from cooking your own breakfast to reading a book to breathing is against the law without a B visa and a Work Permit. Thats the law.

Again I started this thread because some poor sap wanted to volunteer teach kids in a poor rural school at the request of the director. He was immediately set upon by the angry mob carrying pitch forks and torches screaming "DEPORTATION" "JAIL".

Its

Just

Not

True

And as someone correctly pointed out, if you can work without legal repercussions on a Tourist visa, it really does not help my BA TESOL program at all to promote this fact.

if you want to start a separate thread about your own Crusades go ahead. I stated a very simple question. I've stated my hypothesis.no one is contradicting me. The rest of your babble isn't really important to me or this thread.

The thing I find interesting about Lostinissan is his/her writing style changes so dramatically from one post to another.

Anyway.....

As I have said, and NO ONE has contradicted, apparently no one gets in trouble for working on tourist or ED visas.

If it happens its extremely rare. Because its NOT the death penalty. They could post if they were deported and their friends could also post.

Wait, are you saying they kill the guy who worked illegally AND their family and friends!?! Wow, thats pretty tough! In that case, DO NOT EVERY WORK ILLEGALLY IN THAILAND! Especially if you have kids. Those poor little kids, executed because their dad worked on a Tourist visa. THE INJUSTICE!!!

As I have also mentioned like a kajillion times, not many of our BA TESOL students are working on ED visas. its less than 1/3. And many are working legally with work permits and waivers from TCT. Don't ask me how or why. I just sign the letters to the TCT confirming their enrollment.

And NONE of our 130+ students have had ANY real visa issues in 2+ years. So why would I need to reassure them?

You guys make no sense at all.

Just tell people what life is really like here. And if you do not know, don;t post. But posting things that are not true is... odd? Pathetic? Not sure.

Not until you graduate after 4 years of study. Until then, you encourage them to work on non-imm EDs. I guess that's what this thread is about - reassuring your 'students'.

brucefefl, no offense, but you're obviously one of the Champions of the "work without all proper documentation and you will not be deported" club.

"Your students" , being on an ed visa are and were never allowed to work as English, or subject teachers, until they graduated.

Seems that you're not a native English speaker, otherwise you'd have understood what other poster have written.

Those who got deported won't read your posts and reply. Here's my question: How many of the tens of thousand illegal working teachers in Thailand have read your thread?

So your thread is basically to let people know that they can work illegally, being on an ed visa, provided by people who work for you.

Is that what you're trying to do with your thread? And why are you not allowed to post at another well-known forum anymore?

That's when you started posing here more often.

To make one thing clear. You're not allowed to make that three, or four year degree and go to teach at the same time.

Ed stands for education ,when you'd like to study. Time that they close that loophole.

Thailand can be a very cheap place to live and it can be a very expensive place to live.

But if you do not spend a lot of time in bars, if you do not go to a lot of Western (more expensive) restaurants, its not at all difficult to live in BKK on 35,000 per month.

Housing: 8,000 including utilities

Food: 200 per day, 6,000 per month

Transportation: 50 per day, 1,500 per month.

You have just covered the basics and you have spent less than 1/2 your salary.

PS Have you survived on McDonalds wages before?

Put it into perspective.
McDonalds pays the minimum wage, an NES teacher here makes 5x Thailand's minimum.

I made good money back home but struggled to put $500 a month into savings. Here, I have a great life here and can put $400 a month away on a teacher's salary