brucetefl

Yes the days of getting a job easily are over. Let me give you an example:

A few months ago a kid I know from America came to Thailand. He is 21 and has no university degree. He went into interviews and this is what he said:

"I've never taught English before. I want a job thats really easy. I don't want to do any lesson plans. I want to earn 40,000 per month.

It took him three days to get a job. He's working at a technical college in Thonburi. He had to settle for 35,000.

Yes, the days of showing up and getting a job easily are over.....

If you have the proper qualifications you MAY find a job teaching English in Thailand.

The days of "coming to Thailand, and getting a job as an English teacher immediately" are over.

It's getting more difficult all the time, and the salary you should expect is based on your qualifications.

As a rule of thumb, you will need twice the experience and qualifications you would think you need, and will be paid half the salary you wanted to find a good position.

And it will take you twice as long to find that good position than you thought it would.

For most "good teaching jobs" now you will need a degree in Education and some teaching experience.

And as I said before, your salary will be a lot lower than you hoped.

That's the reality now.

A pox be upon me.

I can now see what a HUGE issue this is.

In all honesty I kept. All these people talk about deportation heavy fines. Yet I had never heard of such things happening. So I asked the question to see if other people really did have first or second hand experience in these things. I didn't want to come out and say it never happened many people posted that it. But it turns out I was right. No one has ever heard of anyone being deported or fined for teaching English without a work permit. At least no one first or second hand.

Why all the negativity and snarky replies?

Unfortunately that's practically impossible as an English teacher.

Many Schools never hire people sight unseen from overseas. There are a few reasons for this:

1. Many of the people who apply from overseas never end up coming to Thailand.

2. Why risk hiring someone you've never met when you can meet someone and see them teach a sample lesson?

Anyway, it's usually only the crap jobs that hire people they've never met. Far better to get here and apply face-to-face wearing your nice shirt and tie.

In fact, many teachers complain Schools don't even respond to their e-mails if they are overseas. So, how is the world would you manage to get letters that sponsor you to get a B visa?

So, let's be realistic for second. The best thing to do is come here on a two-month tourist visa. Start visiting schools as soon as you arrive. As long as they provide you with the proper documentation, you can convert that tourist visa into a business visa as long as there are two weeks left before you need to depart.

Please note that these are general rules of thumb. Immigration tends to do what immigration wants to do and sometimes they'll tell you they won't convert your tourist visa.

Please be aware that getting the proper visa if you intend to come and teach is now more important than ever!

So lets actually answer the OP's question.

BEST time to get a job is late April through late May. It remains ok in June and slows down a bit in July August and Spetember (with the quitters Thailander mentions) and then picks up again in October through the beginning of November. A dead period begins in mid December and lasts until the end of February. March is not very good but there are some summer camps, etc.

In many ways I agree.

But shouldn't the standards have something to do with teaching? Not just the ability to complete a 4-year degree in ANY major?

I think the qualifications to become a teacher here are too low. Now, people are saying that the standards are not low enough? This is not rocket science, if you went to college, you are a lot more likely to be able to spell correctly, you are more likely to know so many things that an average person may not know. I don't really care either way, but asking for a 4 year degree is a very low standard.

I hope all of you know that lightning could strike you at any time. Or a meteor could just fall on you!

By the way, I was driving around Bangkok last night and I noticed Nana and Soi Cowboy weere closed and guards at the entrances because... well prostitution is against the law in Thailand you know.

I threw a cheese and pork sausage in the microwave a few minutes ago and saw an immigration officer taking my picture through the window. I realized I had broken the law so I did not bother to clean my dish. I better wait for a thai to do that. Otherwise its off to immigration jail for me!

Until one person actually goes to jail or is even fined I think its probably not something any of us really needs to worry about. Because no one has yet to give me a first or even second-hand account of that EVER happening.

Do not use fake documents. THAT can get you in big trouble,

DO NOT overstay your visa.

Do not use or sell drugs.

These things can get you into trouble.

From (apparently) everyone's experience, teaching English without a B visa and work permit will not.

That might change! Next week they may make it a big issue. Thats a real risk. But as of now, its NEVER been a real problem.

As far as I know its NEVER happened. I have been here 18 years and directly involved in the English teaching industry.

Using fake documents or overstay, yes. But just teaching without a WP and B visa, no.

The consequences of working illegally or rather working without a work permit can vary to blind eye tactics (for a period anyway) to being thrown out the country with no return, a hefty fine or even jail. In some cases all three. How important is your piece of mind?

Out of interest, does anybody know if this has actually happened? A custodial sentence in Thailand for teaching without a work permit?

I'm sure there are probably provisions for it, but has it ever actually happened?

No, it hasn't happened. Not to an English teacher anyway. In 20 years here, I've known hundreds working without a WP and/or degree.

There have been a couple of instances where foreigners were deported for working without a degree but it's not that simple - they upset the wrong person. If that happens and you have no 'influence' yourself, it doesn't really matter what you've done or not done.

The way things work in this country are not like your own home.

There is always an option of paying a fine rather than going to jail.

Huh? Drop out of school at the age of 12?

Huh?

Who is talking about people who dropped out of school at the age of 12?

I am talking about intelligent, expreinced people who, for various reasons, did not get a university degree.

Back a few years ago, when I was running TESOL courses, we had lots of IT people coming through. They did not finish university (like that slacker, Bill gates and that other one, Steve Jobs) but had been quite successful getting Microsoft training for over a decade. But its not a degree.

Employing a teacher with a degree, as opposed to one without, has 2x primary benefits to education providers.

1/ The education provider is assured that the teacher has a certain level of academic ability. This doesn't necessarily put them above all of the non degree holders, but it gives an assurance to the education provider that the teacher has at least reached a certain standard, which sets them above "some" of the non degree holders.

2/ At an academic institution, the institution wants to inspire students towards achieving success in their academic goals. The teachers at that institution are the role models which guide the students towards those goals, and help to give them inspiration. A teacher who has at least achieved some of those academic goals, will be a better role model (for these goals) than someone who hasn't.

If, for example, a teacher dropped out of school at the age of 12, how are they meant to inspire students towards working towards those academic goals?

Will they say, "You should just drop out of school now, life will be fine, you don't need to go to university or even to finish high school, education is a waste of time. Look at me, I never went to university, but I've still got a good job"?

Or maybe they'll say "Make sure you study hard, because otherwise you might end up having to work as an English teacher like me". Would either of these be a potential role model? Would a teacher who never even finished high school be respected by the students, and would they be an appropriate role model?

The quality of teaching from someone with, or without, a degree isn't dictated by whether they hold a degree or not. Their English proficiency, experience, relevant educational experience and personality are much more important. However, schools aren't just employing teachers to teach, they're employing teachers as role models, and that's why they want a degree.

That's also why they want teachers to dress well, not drink to excess, not to smoke or do drugs, be in good personal health/fitness, to be punctual, to not have a disagreeable or dishonest personality and to not have a criminal record. As they want teachers to embody everything which they would like their students to become, and these are all generally considered to be negative characteristics.

Of course, living up to all of these is a difficult task, so they're usually happy so long as their teachers don't do these in public, or at least not in front of the students. Likewise they often hire someone and then only later find out that the teacher wasn't what they expected, based on their CV and interview.

Thats a big assumption. Many people who do not have degrees could have attained them if they had chosen to earlier in life. They just made other choices based upon their circumstances at the time.

Using that same logic I am better than most of you because I have a masters degree.

I think we agree.

No, I am not joking. We agree.

I guess where we might disagree is on what is "qualified".

How does a degree in Economics help one to be a more effective English teacher? I'm not trying to put down people with degrees in economics. I have a degree in economics. I just don't think it made me a better English teacher. Yes, it shows that I had the persistence to finish a four-year degree and write papers and take exams. But taking a four week TESOL certificate course made me a much more effective teacher.

I just threw out that internship idea on an earlier post. But why not? If you want to teach in Thailand, get some training in how to teach English and then be required to teach English in Thai school for three months. Free of charge. and you spend 10 hours a week teaching the Thai English teachers. Those who thrive and survive are allowed to continue and get a job with the work permit.

And before people start saying I'm doing this to benefit myself, right now my main job is running a degree program.

After they clamp down on those working illegally, the authorities should make a home country criminal background check mandatory for obtaining a work permit for teaching school age children. I believe as it stands now, this is selectively applied.

Thailand needs to keep the unqualified, the criminals and the paedophiles out of its classrooms. And the best way to do that is enforce the laws.

I have a friend, an American guy who's lived in and out of Thailand for nearly 40 years, Masters degree, fluent in speaking reading and writing Thai. Been married to the same Thai woman for over 30 years.

He claims that Thailand has had no complete overhaul in the government since Rama 1, and that, therefore, there are laws that contradict almost every other law.

I'm not sure if he's 100% serious or just 50% serious, but we certainly all know that there are many many laws in Thailand selectively enforced. That's not going to change anytime soon despite the rantings of a few people on these forums.

Thais tend to be very pragmatic. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I bring my own reasons behind the actions of others, but I think sometimes Thai administrators the same way. They realize it's a rule that you need to have a degree to hire A foreign English teacher, but I think they realize that's kind of dumb rule. So they do it anyway.

Just to let you know how little many Thais know about this field, about seven years ago I sat next to the permanent Sec. of education at a dinner. At that time I was still very involved in TEFL international. We began talking and I explained to her what I did. At that time the second most important person in the ministry of education had never heard of a TESOL certificate course. Not just my course, TEFL international, but any course of its kind.

I absolutely agree that Thai kids (and all kids) deserve teachers who have training and qualifications.

But how does a degree in Economics make you more qualified than someone who spent 10 years as a certified Microsoft technician?

How is that guy a sex tourist because he did not get a degree?

Qualifications make sense. But make them qualifications that relate to teaching English.

Next, remember your pay scale. If you need a lot of teachers that ill earn between 30,000 and 40,000 per month teaching conversational English (while the Thai teachers teach grammar, etc.) make the minimum qualification a decent TESOL certificate with Observed Teaching practice. heck, even make them apprentice for a month in Thai schools.

But if you want people with full teaching qualifications, best be prepared to pay 60,000 per month minimum.

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

Conversly, having a degree in "media studies" or flower arranging is not going to make someone a good teacher, and I understand the requirement in Thailand is to have a degree in any subject, not necessarily in a teaching related subject.

I'm with the employers that prefer people that can DO a job, not those with a degree, which is pretty meaningless now anyway.

Media studies, rap etc etc cheesy.gif cheesy.gif cheesy.gif .

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So are calling the Thai authorities 'morons' for wanting qualified teachers? Sorry to burst your bubble but not having a degree DOES make you unqualified to teach here. Of course it is ignored which is something hopefully the junta will try and stop. Thai kids deserve better than anyone with a white face thinking they can teach English, they can't despite argument that teachers are born and not made, training to teach and a degree are, and should be mandatory. The days of sex tourists, failed no hoper falangs and gap students becoming 'teachers' here is something that is hopefully coming to an end.

Try this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/739047-should-i-start-teaching-english/

Short answer, yes you are technically required to have a Work Permit. But its also unlikely you will have any big issues unless you end up angering someone.

I wanted to contribute to this thread, but I'm not sure if kindergartens are part of formal or non-formal education.

Yes the first stop should be your local ministry of education office.

If they classify this as formal education do not even think about opening the school until you have been given permission. If this is classified as non-formal education, and that includes things like English schools, Hairdressing schools, driving schools and the like, it's not a big deal to open the school and then begin working on the documentation. In fact, many ministry of education offices will instruct you to do just that--determine if the school is liable before going to the trouble of registering it.

But go visit them first. I know of a few International K through 6 schools in Pattaya that did not register, the schools were closed and the owners arrested.

Sorry your meaning was probably quite clear in an earlier post that I have forgotten about.

And while I understand and agree with your point here, KennyN, its often impossible to find a single Thai teacher of English that is able to communicate in English at most schools in Thailand.

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

No, I am not German bashing at all. Are you an English teacher? I sure hope not! Becasue you COMPLETELY miss my point here! And I am using very BASIC English. Poor kids . I really encourage you to read my post again. Hopefully you can understand the point I am clearly making

I am very sorry to hear about Mr. Hippo. May he rest in peace. As far as i know I did not know him or have any association with him.

So NOW a teacher in Thailand would not WANT to go back home to get their MA...

Just no pleasing you is there, Thailander.

I have no idea who Mr. Hippo is. If you want to PM me and fill me in I might or might not be able to answer.

I have no idea why James Madison requires this. From our research every school we contacted just required that the degree be accredited by the MOE.

This from UCLA:

Of course for James Madison we would provide the course descriptions.

But certainly its true that you are wrong that:

"It appears that several posters are implying or stating that this degree would be enough to get one into graduate school in the West. No way, Josue. Usually the number one requirement for admission to grad school is an undergraduate degree from an accredited college or university.....and they don't mean accredited by the Thai MOE. Would they even let you into Chiang Mai University with it?"

CMU, not sure. UCLA, yes?

OK I will take that exchange! hahaha

(OK, in reality CMU would have absolutely no problem accepting a graduate from another accredited Thai university. I was just having some fun with Thailander's logic.)

BA_TESOL_Course_Modules_Description (2).pdf

I understand, Deacon. And I completely agree. I was just pointing out that Thongsook had no special privilege. Sorry if it seemed I was possibly discrediting your post. That was not my intention.

Students from all over Thailand, with degrees in many subjects from many universities, including Thongsook, are doing just that.

It's an undeniable fact.

I believe that students with degrees from Thongsook, with the same accreditation as the BA TESOL, are studying MA's in UK and US universities, based on the degree they gained at Thongsook.

I am sorry, Thailander, you are just dead wrong. Having a BA from Thailand, be it a BA in TESOL from Thongsook or another BA or BS from another Thai university, meets the minimum requirements for applying for graduate school in the US, UK etc.

You would need a course-by-course evaluation if you were transferring credit. No one is even discussing that. We are talking about potentially going on to a Masters Degree in the US or UK based upon having a degree from Thongsook or ANY accredited Thai university.

In the US, universities will accept degrees from Thailand that are accredited by the MOU and CHE. Its really that simple. They do not automatically accept everyone that applies, just like they do not automatically accept all applicants with US degrees, but its considered to meet the minimum requirements of application.

If you were a US citizen you would not be applying as an international student just because you have a degree from Thailand. Undoubtedly in your essay you would explain how you ended up in Thailand studying in a Thai university. Like in all applications for Masters Degree programs you would need to put your best foot forward.

But its a simple fact, having a BA from Thailand, be it a BA in TESOL from Thongsook or another BA or BS, meets the minimum requirements for applying for graduate school in the US, UK etc.

Finally your attempt to compare us with a certificate course went bad at CMU is absolutely ridiculous. This is a full degree program, approved by the Board of Directors and stamped by the Council of Higher Education. This is so unlike the former CMU TEFL its impossible to compare them.

Your reckless attacks are both pitiful and embarrassing at the same time. Go do something productive, please, before you get your self into a great deal of trouble. Chiang Mai is not that far from BKK.

I think Bruce has already proved that his degree is recognized and accepted by the Thai MOE. There's no reason to think that it wouldn't be recognized by universities in and outside of Thailand for post grad study.

And after a course by course evaluation; you might find yourself repeating three years of undergraduate work. Let's see a program in the US that matches up with a "BA in TESOL." Also, enrolling as an International Student in your own country would present its own challenges. Someone with a mainstream major, would have a far easier time going abroad for graduate school. Since we don't have one student from this specific program, who has done it; we don't know for certain...but they aren't simply going to say you have a BA, now you can go for MA. There are independent agencies that do course for course evaluations, and from what I've seen happen to community college transfers; it's not very generous.

Our planned MEd may eventually c become a partnership with another university.

right now we hope to have two options. One would be agreed only from a cow University. And the price would be quite affordable. Maybe only about 50,000. the second option would be a partnership with a US university. The student would get either two separate master's degrees or a degree that was jointly issued. Obviously, this would be far more expensive but we still hope to have the price at less than 170,000.surprisingly, the delay is with the thai University.

people with degrees from recognized Thai university studies for graduate degrees all the time in the US and the UK. Any claims otherwise are absolutely ridiculous. And your constant personal attacks on me are also libellus.