SDM0712

Would investing in a light truck battery, a 240v car battery charger and a 1000w power inverter give better perfomance for you guys when there is a black out.

Just something to consider.

I had thought of something like that. My next door neighbour has a deisel generator. Might be worth considering if the switch-over can be made simple.

This is something I have tried to look into without success and the only advice I have been given is to run a house I will need a Honda 4 or 5. I have no idea what that is, where to get one or how to get it fitted.

Out of interest how big is your neighbours generator and what does it power, if you know.

SDM

''I love it when a good plan comes together'' quote, American TV. series. (CAN'T REMEMBER NAME)

"I ain't gettin in no plane, crazy fool"

The A Team

I'd be more confidient if the Army was doing this.

At the bottom of Patong Hill this morning the Police and Army had pulled over about 40 commuter vans so I think it's a joint effort.

SDM

Not at all. Flip flops are an abomination, especially when driving a car and riding a m'bike. Here speaks the voice if wisdom and common sense.

Completely agree. I've driven in flip flops and recall one incident where I was making a right turn on a clear road and then saw a Mercedes traveling very fast towards me. I tried to stop but the flip flop, being lose and rubbery, got caught between the accelerator and brake, so I didn't stop but with the auto in "D" just crept forward. Luckily the Mercedes driver managed to steer around me, but I don't drive in flip flops anymore. Better if drive in bare feet if there is no other option.

I still use them on the bike though.

SDM

................but it is interesting to me to see so many western men return to a state of lawlessness in 
Thailand. No seatbelt, no helmet drunk driving to name a few.......

Many, however it could be said that they are merely behaving like many of their hosts, "when in Rome"

SDM

Assumption: drunk <deleted> driving home at 5am. Why do innocent kids have to die instead of these drunk pricks

I wouldn't assume he was drunk, there's nothing much in the way of bars coming from that direction, it's possible of course but more likely if he was traveling in the other direction from Phuket Town or Patong.

Personally in my opinion, I think it's just as likely that he was just going to fast and lost control. For those of us who actually know Phuket the section of road they are talking about is a three lane carriageway and main route to and from the airport. Putting this incident aside speeding on this road is very common and usually from the airport taxis, limos (!) and WMDs ( PCI commuter vans). At that time in the morning the road would have been very quiet.

SDM

......................Meanwhile, you who do not live in condos, presume to tell others what common practice is.

A system that works flawlessly with 100 large condo building around Thailand does not expose the committee to risk and further no liability can come to a committee member who has acted in the best interests of the building. That last bit saves any committee from frivilous lawsuits from the senile or others with too much time on their hands.

The Laws have been posted in full and are clear.

An opinion of a senior Thai official has been posted and is quite clear.

Laws take precedence over "common practice", and "common pratice" has never been a successful defence for mitigating Law breaking.

Lawsuits, if there are any will not be from the "senile ", they will be from Thai officials acting In their official capacity and performing their duties.

For all you chaps acting on committees the chances of you ever being prosecuted are remote, but don't kid yourselves, you are supposed to have a work permit and that has been shown beyond doubt. But I'm afraid there is no point in discussing this reasonably with anyone who feels that "common practice" makes it OK. It's akin to the excuse my 7 year old often gives when being caught out, " because he told me to do it"

" does the defendant have anything else to add ? "

"Well Your Judgeness I thought is was ok to do because everyone else does it, and they never had a problem"

SDM

It made myself and the rest of the committee the recepient of legal advice from the legal department of a management company that operates 100 condo buildings all over the kingdom. http://www.qpm-co.com/page/aboutEN.php

Ok very nice website, but i missed the bit on there as to any statements about work permits can you direct me to this section please ?

Further why no comment about the post on the ask the lawyer section ?

I have a couple of observations;

1. I also cannot see any reference to the necessity to have, or not have, work permits on that link and it wouldn't matter if there was, I have posted the Law which would take precedence over anything else.

2. The lawyers you mention do not represent the committee members, they represent the condominium company and since the committee members are not their clients they have no duty of care or responsibility to the them.

3. In a normal situation an employer would be fined for employing a non-Thai without a work permit, but as I understand it the committee members would not be employed by the condominium company and therefore the company is protected. Therefore any advice given by the Condominiums lawyers to third party committee members cannot be depended on or used in Court by committee members as a defence, and the lawyers actual clients remain protected.

SDM

How about an evolving number of "likes" based on how long you have lived in Thailand?

I have always thought that it would be interesting when looking at posters comments and views to know if they live here or not.

SDM

Those who have not been condo committee members are expert on the subject. I will leave the landed gentry to their own preoccupations. Those who have performed the task for two terms can not contribute as we do not know enough to keep up with your brilliance.

So now he can rewrite Thai land law......wonderful.

Why would they be experts in Thai Law, which is what this is concerned with, surely the lawyer would be the expert? Or is it the assumption that because they have never had a problem re work permits etc that makes them expert. Perhaps it just makes them lucky.

SDM

It would appear you have never sat on a condo management committee. I am well aware of the ONE official's interpretation translated into English in the link you have mentioned. I prefer to respond to this as follows..... that the facts were lost in translation, mis-reported and he was probably referring to the JPM.

You show me an example of a committee member being forbidden, prosecuted or deported for sitting on a management committee which is designed under Thai law to oversee the maintenance and accountable management of his freehold property!

It would appear you have never sat on a condo management committee.

Quite so.

I am well aware of the ONE official's interpretation translated into English in the link you have mentioned. I prefer to respond to this as follows..... that the facts were lost in translation, mis-reported and he was probably referring to the JPM.

.

An argument I have also used myself in the past but, and this is my opinion, I would say something “ lost in translation” would be something subtle. What I am looking for in The Condominium Act would be a line that says people on the committee are exempt from requiring a work permit, or in the The Alien Working Act a line containing an exemption for serving committee members in Condominiums registered under The Condominium Act. But I can find neither. I willing to concede that the Thai official may have been in error, they sometimes are, but the Laws are specific. Although a Court would only be interested in the native Thai version, a clever lawyer would argue that the Law is translated in a language that the defendant understands and is very clear they could easily have understood it, but still chose to ignore it.

You show me an example of a committee member being forbidden, prosecuted or deported for sitting on a management committee

It’s not really relevant and not the subject of the thread. However your point seems to be, and many people seems to make this point, that because no action has been taken against anyone, and I am also unaware which bearing in mind I am in the property business, is relevant. However I could also point out perhaps ten people who drive their cars drunk, but not a single one has been caught, this doesn’t mean it’s right or legal. Different situation, but same principle.

“designed under Thai law to oversee the maintenance and accountable management of his freehold property!”

To repeat myself, I have quoted The Condominium Act and put a link to the full act. There is not a mention of allowing a foreigner to serve on a committee without the need for a work permit.

Let me conclude by saying I doubt there would ever be a problem for a foreigner serving in the capacity. But that wasn’t what the OP asked. The important thing to consider is if ever action was taken against someone, they would lose and any lawyer would pull out all the evidence I have. You may say it is unlikely but if you upset the wrong person they have all the ammunition they need to create a lot of trouble.

SDM

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

This thread I s about a co-owners committee of a condo. The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law. It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.

They do NOT require a WP. Your post is out of context and nonsense!

“Your post is out of context and nonsense!”

I don’t agree, let have a look at the facts. SDM

“This thread is about a co-owners committee of a condo”.

In general terms I agree, however to be more specific, the title of the thread is “Work Permit for Condo Foreign Board Chairman and Members” and “Do the foreign national Board Chairman and two foreign national Board Members need work permits.”

“The rules are set out in the condominium act under Thai Law.

“ Once again I agree, however I can see no mention of exemptions for the requirements to have work permits.

Although you disagree that this is work in saying “It is neither work for payment or volunteering for no payment.”

However Chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan, who in 2012 was the Work Permit Division of Phuket Employment Office would seem to disagree with you. He said

“…………….Normally, being on a committee involves attending meetings to make decisions and signing papers. In this case, you would need a work permit.”

I did notice it has been pointed out that this office is now closed, however the last amendment to The Condominium Act was in 1999 and last amendment to The Alien Working Act was in 2008. My point being that whether this office is either presently open or closed is irrelevant. The relevant Laws as they were 2012 are exactly the same in 2014, so clearly the same rule applies.

“They do NOT require a WP. “

Hopefully I have illustrated that this claim is wrong, it’s not my opinion but has been proven with the evidence that I have given.

“Your post is out of context and nonsense!”

It would seem not.

If you disagree, please tell us why.

SDM

Sources;

The Condominium Act 1979 (Amended 1999) http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0336.pdf

The Alien Working Act 2008 http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf

Chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

^ I understand that WP's are both job and location 'locked'. You can't be gogo bar manager TEFL'er and moonlight as the CEO of myownsuperwebdesigncompany.com

Correct, mine has a very specific description of what I can do.

SDM

My work permit covers my day job, however I use various investment platforms for trading from my home. One buy or sell a month, am I therefor working ilegally. Its propostrous to even contemplate.

It depends if you are selling your own investments or acting for other people.

Are you working illegally? I've posted the relevant law which you are subject to while you are in Thailand. Why don't you have read through and decide yourself if you are breaking it. It may very well be that you are not.

However, I am just picturing the scene, in the unlikely event you are caught, arrested and taken to Court. Will you tell the police "Its propostrous to even contemplate " or the Judge " Its propostrous to even contemplate"

In reality most people will use the defence "I didn't know", although as we say in the UK, ignorance is no excuse of breaking the Law and has no impact on the punishment.

SDM

If you go with them or any other Thai provider, be sure to get the highest level cover. For some reason most policies are at a ridiculously low level. (will not be an issue with a policy issued in the West). And steer clear of life insurance companies offering "health insurance" as a sideline.

I looked very hard at this before I came over it seemed to me there were a few problems with insurance companies here relating to levels of cover, and a reputation that they may not payout either at the time or at all.

I can't remember what the maximum cover was with the Thai companies I found, but compared to their European equivilants it was very small. I have a policy that covers every country in the world apart from North America, it includes long term conditions, and has a maximum cover in theory per claim of around, from memory, six million USD. It's from AXA and costs £140 per month and I pay it in the UK, I'm 48 and in good general health. So far I have had to claim once, I didn't even see a bill as they dealt directly with Bangkok Hopsital.

SDM

UK Immigration ask a lot of annoying questions, but they are the equivalent of police officers so I put up with it. To give an example my family and I live over here on a permanent basis and we return to the UK every year or so. Everytime we go back Immigration at Heathrow ask how long we have been away. There must be a point to the question, but I cannot see what it is. We are all British passport holders and go through the proper channel. What I want to say is " why do you need to know this, you cannot refuse us entry", but am too tired and just want to get out of the airport.

SDM

The laws and the enforcement of laws are two different things. …………….

So your "IT IS THE LAW" cries without knowing the actual enforcement policies and in what context they use the law are just useless noise. “

It would seem that you are reading my posts but I am obviously failing to be clear. In fact I have been agreeing with you. It would also seem that I am being very polite, although not receiving the same courtesy from you.

So, and again at the risk of boring even myself (quite an accomplishment as I love the sound of my own voice or in the case words), this is my view.

1. Does a non-Thai need a work permit to work in Thailand, even if is is just sitting at a PC linked to another country. Yes

2. Are they breaking the Law by working in this manner. Yes

3. If they are caught will they be punished by the Thai Authorities. Probably.

4. Will the OP be caught in this work. Probably not

5. Should the OP be aware of the facts in order to make his own informed decision. Yes

I have nothing more to say on the subject, have a good night everyone.

Regards

SDM

Find even one case where a nerd or book author or any other type of one man band freelancer working for a customers abroad has been arrested. Can you find even one example?

Most retirees use prostitutes, which is btw illegal in Thailand and still come here to offer their concesdencing BS in work visa matters. "IT IS THE LAW! LAW! LAW! Obey the LAW!". So ridicilous.

I don’t disagree and have no intention of combing past Court cases to see if you are correct. Having said that with regard to the size of Thailand coupled with the level of the non-Thai population I would expect there to be a few examples, not many though I agree.

I also agree that prostitution in Thailand although widespread is illegal but really make it my business not to comment on others, as I said before I’m a firm believer in live and let live.

Perhaps I am taking you out of context but when you quote others, like me, saying“"IT IS THE LAW! LAW! LAW! Obey the LAW!" and then go on to say “So ridiculous.” Do you mean that the Law is ridiculous, or we are ridiculous by pointing out the Law, or to obey the Law is ridiculous. If either of these meanings are correct it is impossible to reason with someone who openly believes Law to be ridiculous. Like it or not the Law of the land has complete power over you and all of us, whatever country we live unless the subject person has diplomatic immunity. To believe Law to be ridiculous is to believe in Anarchy and we only need to look at Somalia to see how that works out.

However, the thread is asking if someone conducting work in another country, whilst physically being in Thailand needs a work permit. It is not concerned with OAP’s using hookers, and good luck to them if they are.

The correct answer is that you do need a work permit, but the reality is that unless someone informs on you, you will never be caught. My clearly completely misunderstood view, by you at least, is merely if this chap wants to work without a permit it is unlikely he will be caught, but if he is caught he may be punished and he should know that. This is correct and undeniable, it is not a matter of opinion and unaffected by people who options do not agree, at the risk of boring even myself, it’s the Law.

SDM

But they should not kid themselves that if they are caught that they will be let off with a slap on the wrist only, they might be, but they might also be fined, be fined and deported, be fined, deported and blacklisted. Although they will get some comfort from the fact that pure immigration offenses do not attract the death penalty, so it's not all bad.

SDM

You and Soutpeel do not offer anything to the discussion. Always the same old scaremongering BS, "They might, might not, blacklisted or not, fined or not...coulda, shoulda. mighta..blah blah blah". You have less info to offer than most of us, just your high and mighty condescending "opinions". Go away, go to the beach or something.

Dear Timwin

Working without a Work Permit in Thailand is illegal, unless you are Thai.

You say I do not bring anything to the discussion, but the discussion is mute, you cannot work without a work permit. It doesn’t matter what anybody else thinks, it is a fact in Law.

If someone breaks the Law, they can be punished, there’s no “coulda, shoulda. mighta..blah blah blah" about it.

I am not actually even sure what you mean.

Could have what ?

Should have what?

Might have what ?

All these questions seem to bear no relevance to the discussion.

In fact your post is purely an attack on Soutpeel and myself and contains nothing of a factual nature with regard to working in Thailand.

I have may have less info to offer than most of you. but let me quote this ;

“If you are a foreigner and you intend to work in Thailand, you are subject to the Alien Employment Act, which requires you to have a work permit to be issued by the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labor, or unless it falls within an exception of the said Act……..The term “work” in Thai law is defined very broadly, covering both physical and mental activities, whether or not for wages or other form of compensation. Even volunteer or charity work requires a work permit in Thailand.”

The quote is from http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/working-thailand.php

You say that I am only offering my “high and mighty condescending opinions", but the truth is that I am merely quoting the Law of the land and advising people to do what they wish, but do it knowing the Law and accept the fact that if caught there may be a punishment and what that will be who can say for sure.

I will concede that my quote does say a work permit is required “unless it falls within an exception of the said Act”. If you want to bring something to the discussion why don’t you find out what these exceptions are. That way you will put “scaremongering BS” artists like Soutpeel and I in our place and actually do a great service for the forum, rather than post an unfounded attack of this nature. I would do it but to be honest rather than have time to “go to the beach or something” I am very busy with my work and if it wasn’t for the fact I was having a meeting in the smallest room of my office, I would not have replied.

Have a good day.

SDM

PS Just wanted to add this late entry;

“Whether or not you will need a work permit depends on whether your intended activity actually qualifies as work under the Employment Department's existing definition………… You can not use your retirement visa to apply.” Says Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan.

Source; http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329

I moved within the same town and it was a very straightforward process. Neither my wife nor I can remember what we needed, I don't think it was anything, just a witness statement from the house owner (wife) I think. We went to the Taisaban and were in and out in 20 minutes. Just to to your local Taisaban with a Thai speaker and ask.

SDM

PS and it was free.

Fargo was good, ITV1 I think, Casualty (BBC1 Saturday), Holby (BBC1 Tuedsay), Dr Who starting soon.

But of late I have been watching a few Korean dramas with her indoors and have become addicted. Have a look at www.gooddrama.com Your wives, girlfriends, special friends will have already seen many as the Thais are crazy for Gowley Lakorns! But the difference is these all have Engrish subtitles. (No spelling error)

Koreans have very active imaginations ! So far I have seen relatively normal soaps, but perhaps with an alien (and I don't mean a non-Thai, well I do mean a non-Thai, but from far far far away), who falls in love with the reincarnation of a girl he know 300 years ago, or a Prince from 400 years in the past who travels to the future to find out who killed his wife in the past, but he ends up falling in love with the reincarnation of his sister in law in the present, who he was supposed to marry in the past (the original version) but didn't, or, .......well they are all a bit crazy. Are hard drugs legal in Korea.

Anyway, from what I have seen Korean soaps (jokingly called dramas) can involve unlikely coincidences, time travel, extra terrestrial visitors, time travel (in both directions) and usually at least 20% of weeping, sobbing, balling, and all other forms of crying. However they are completely addictive.

SDM

PS just finished one about a girl who used to play a pretend princess as a part time job at a palace, but guess what, she really was a princess and last descendent from the last Emperor, but he died and she lost her memory, got lost and was adopted. Amnesia seems to be fairly common in Korea, most people tend to have it at least once in their lives, sometimes more.

PPS I watch all my stuff using an EXPAT TV smart box linked to my TV, but you can use anything that can access the internet, so Ipad, Smartfones, PCs, etc

If they are doing any kind of work then they require a work permit. Even if they are doing volunteer work for no money.

SDM

Immigration wouldn't care, its a DOL issue.......

Although work permits are issued by the Department of Labour in practical terms it would be the various police forces that would be responsible for inspections, road blocks, etc and would in reality decide whether to take a case further or turn a blind eye.

SDM

Let's be straight here: at this point, Thai immigration really does not care about this. I have had informal conversations with high ranking Immigration officers about this issue.

Of course we don't know if this will change but you might get into a motorbike accident and die tomorrow also.

...................

Immigration wouldn't care, its a DOL issue, further which immigration office are you on about about

I think we should be careful and not assume what one immigration officer tells us applies to the whole country, or indeed anyone else in that immigration office, or indeed even to that immigration officer in the near or long future. How many times have we all been told one set of rules by one official to be told another conflicting rule by another.

The fact is that it is illegal to work without a work permit, whether that is paid work or not whilst you are physically within the boundaries that Thai Law covers if you are not a Thai citizen. There is nothing further to add in that point.

However whether or not the authorities would take action against an offender is another matter and something that an individual must decide themselves based on their attitude to risk. If they accept the risk and are caught the defense that someone mentioned on a website that they had an "informal" conversation with a high ranking immigration official somewhere who said that " Thai immigration really does not care about this" would be laughed out of Court. It's akin to the excuse used by school kids " my friend told me to do it". Also in the most unlikely of events let's say this "high ranking " officer were asked by a Court if he did say this, I think we all know what the answer would be.

Many people do all manner of work without a permit and without being caught, many people break the speed limit without being caught, many people commit all types of crimes without being caught. But the one thing they all have in common is that they are law breakers. Personally I don't have a problem with any of these people if they don't affect me, live and let live. But they should not kid themselves that if they are caught that they will be let off with a slap on the wrist only, they might be, but they might also be fined, be fined and deported, be fined, deported and blacklisted. Although they will get some comfort from the fact that pure immigration offenses do not attract the death penalty, so it's not all bad.

SDM

What is the 'interweb'?

I am constantly getting corrected by people who tell me the "Internet" and the "World Wide Web" are not the same thing (you idiot, you). The Interweb is my way of confessing I don't know care about the difference.

A word of my creation that is meaningless outside my brain, but I think it's a sensible creation that I'm trying to introduce into everyday conversation. I did also try to introduce the word "Interwebulator" to mean a machine that accessed the internet, but that didn't take either.

SDM

PS I've worked with computers and the internet for twenty years and I also thought the World Wide Web and internet were them same thing. Having said that who really cares.