15Peter20

Hard times for the PAD leaders.

I think they now feel the need to show whatever strength (ie political capital) they have and choose this temple issue as the rallying cry. They got their biggest following in the past when rallying against Thaksin but the recent disappointment of the curtailed Pitak Siam rally has shown them that the Big T issue simply won't get them significant numbers on the streets any more.

Looks like Srimuang and Co are taking a risk here. If their planned rally doesn't beat the Siam Pitak numbers then there will be nowhere else for them to go politically. Maybe they should have stuck to pulling the strings from backstage instead of trying to appeal to a public who are now sophisticated enough to know their game almost as well as they do.

Hmmm, are you saying gun ownership is wrong? It's a constitutional right, so is neither legally nor morally wrong.

You do know the constitution has been amended many times, don't you?

FYI: The constitution has been amended 27 times since it's inception in 1787. The first ten are known as the Bill of Rights and were added in 1791. The last one was added in 1992.

Amending any document 27 times in 226 years seems a rather rare occurrence to me.

For all those getting their knickers in a twist about the morality of gun ownership, for a start, it has nothing to do with the constitution ( but at present Americans have a constitutional erg legal right to own guns ). There is nothing immoral about owning a gun, but using it to kill innocents would be immoral.

Cars kill more people than guns- are they immoral?

Knives kill- empty the kitchen drawer.

A ball point pen can kill- ban them.

People kill with fists- shall we ban the human race?

All this talk about nutcases and no one has brought up the primary reason the founding fathers guaranteed the ownership of guns- it is to prevent the tyranny of the government.

American freedom isn't guaranteed by a piece of paper ( the supreme court does not uphold the constitution in every case ). American freedom is kept because the government knows it can't win against an armed population.

America - so forward thinking in some ways. So backward in others.

The ability to evolve and develop depends on the ability to change. I suggest that the reason for which you say people can keep guns in America (to somehow 'trump' the democratic process Americans are so proud of in the face of some kind of undefined rogue government behavior) is completely at odds with the way modern countries operate.

Are we talking about the US or Myanmar here?

Not only them , think about the families of 90 persons how has been killed of Abhisit and Suthep administration .

Are you including soldiers and civilians killed by red shirts guns and grenades in that?

Sent from my HTC phone.

I am sure I have pointed out before. soldiers were only killed in one incident. There as only been one investigation into that incident, like it or not and the evidence points to someone close by lobbying in a flash grenade and taking cover behind a military vehicle with the sole intent of upping the anti to justify shooting civillians. The army or the dems (sorry they the same thing) have had long enough to bring in their evidence to counter claim the Amsterdam case. The fact that they have failed to do so even for the grieving parents of the deceased soldiers clearly indicates they cannot refute the evidence provided by the red lawyer. Other than one pop up soldier copping one in the back of his head from his army colleague no others soldiers were killed during the unrest of 2010.

I hope me pointing this out stops you posting alike in another thread

The 'flash grenade' part is BS. Also saying 'just in one incident' is ignoring the strange situation of 'peaceful protesters' lobbing grenades. A 'few' more were lobbed afterwards, even uptill the 19th of May with a few soldiers and vanderGrift 'only' wounded, but not killed. Now that really explains and justifies things, doesn't it?

I hope me pointing this out for the uhmptheenth time will stop you from posting BS in this or other threads, but I doubt it.

One other case of a soldier being killed was of course when a soldier on a motorbike riding back towards his own colleagues was shot dead. He was widely reported to have been shot by one of his own. Has the person who pulled the trigger ever been identified or investigated? Does it suggest an over-eagerness to shoot by a Thai soldier? I guess we'll never know.

The event was called 'Bonanza' and is (I think, not sure) an annual Music Festival held at the Bonanza Resort, which has strong links to the red shirt movement.

I'm surprised nothing was mentioned about it in the News Forum actually, as Thaksin made a live phone-in. Would have been suitable raw meat for the usual anti-red TV posters.

Thanks for that, OP. I was up there at the border about a month ago with a bottle of the JD in one hand and 700Bt in the other (wasn't the duty free shop, but one inside the market).

It certainly looked like the real thing, but at the last moment I just thought that at that price it had to be too good to be true, and put it back on the shelf. Been wondering ever since if I had lost out on a good deal. Thanks for your investigation.

One thing you have to give to the corrupt scum of the DSI. When they decide to do a hachet job, they go for broke. Scum.

Easy there, tiger. The DSI don't have an effective mind of their own so we shouldn't be too harsh on them. They do what the government of the day wants them to do.

Under the Dems, the DSI denied any army involvement in the deaths of 2 years ago, under this government, they're going to an opposite extreme.

If you want the DSI to act as you would like, try to ensure your favorite political party achieves power by any means possible, be it by way of voting, a coup, or years of online bickering.

If the right to bear arms is:

1) Such an integral part of American culture

2) So contentious

and if Americans have the freedom to determine their own laws, why don't they just have a national referendum on it? It seems an appropriate issue on which to poll the nation.

It's a nice thought but Americans don't have national referendums because they are of no consequence legislatively. Some states have referendums as their state constitutions are structured so that the results actually have legislative impact. A national referendum result would just be like a bigger deal opinion poll. We've got plenty of opinion polls already. The way to change laws is in place. It often doesn't work, but that's the system. So bottom line, there will never be a national referendum on ANY issue unless the constitution is changed.

Thanks for that. So from what you've said it is impossible to change the constitution via referendum. Not that it necessarily should be changed via referendum, but the possibility would be a nice alternative to having political gridlock and no change, on this and other 'culture defining' issues.

If the right to bear arms is:

1) Such an integral part of American culture

2) So contentious

and if Americans have the freedom to determine their own laws, why don't they just have a national referendum on it? It seems an appropriate issue on which to poll the nation.

The take-home message of this poll is that Thai people are not as obsessed with Thaksin as most posters on the TV news forum. Finding out why would be a valuable lesson for us all.

Blood test (or dna test) won't help in this matter. I already tried that one.

In some provinces this document can be obtained from the Amphur rather than the court, but Phayao Amphur said they didn't have the power in my case because my daughter's mother is deceased.

As you and your girlfriend could both attend, you may get lucky in the Amphur and I would definitely try that first. The guy at the "reception" will probably say it is not possible, and put his nose back into facebook, but keep talking and ask to see his boss. (the old guy in the office behind). He seemed reasonable to me and at least listened to our case before sending us off to the family court.

Also, take your son with you.

Thanks again. I would go straight to the ampur but according to advice on this thread:

it seems that for the purposes of extending a non-O visa based on being the father of a Thai child, a court document is of particular importance. Will probably end up going to the ampur eventually but will drop in at the court first, especially since being in Phayao city it's on the route between Chiang Mai and Chiang Kham (the ampur in question).

Do you know by any chance remember the name of the road in Phayao where the Family Court is located? Thanks again.

Paul888 - Thanks for that. Somehow I didn't think it could be that easy but will just have to go along and find out. Maybe ring them first, but even then might not get an accurate response.

brianmarinus - Having read the dedicated thread in TV about getting a non-O visa based on having a Thai child without being legally married, it appears that a court document proving the fact is the preferred paperwork that Thai Embassies/Immigration need to see in order to grant/extend it.

Myself and my wife used Phayao to get the paperwork sorted so we could apply for visas for my step daughter to leave the country as her real dad is a loser and hasn't seen her since she was born. They were very helpful and even pointed us to a solicitor just down the road from court so we could get the papers notarised and then we just brought it straight back to court and two weeks later we got papers back and got our approval. You should be fine mate.

Thanks. Your post has given me that familiar old feeling of soaring hope mixed with 'This Is Thailand' warning signs.

Could I just ask a couple more things. I live in Chiang Mai so can't turn up easily at the court any time I like. Did you have to make an appointment with someone in particular or did you just arrive at a reception desk unannounced and were led through the whole process?

Also, I'll take my passport and the relevant Tabien Bahns etc, but is there any other paperwork you needed to take, that you can remember?

Thanks again.

15P

I wonder how much it cost the Laotians to get their money back.

3BB is OK as long as you can connect to it.With some of my sites such as Hotmail it is really slow. I have gone as long as two days with out 3bb connecting. But it is free so what the heck.

I have an AIS air-stick that is much faster but tends to disconnect it's self occasionally. I just reconect it and carry on.

I am convinced that we do not have a good server in Chiang Mai. A good server would make no difference where in Chiang Mai you are located.

What is your definition of a server?

Hi All

I need to get a document from a court proving that I'm the legal father of my 6 year old son. The address in his Tabian Bahn is in a village near Chiang Kham, Phayao so I guess the nearest family court is in Phayao city.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with this court and maybe know how amenable they are to giving out such a document? I've read from other posters that some family courts will grant the required document if I just show up with the mother (who I'm not legally married to) and child and pay a small fee.

Thanks for any info anyone can give on this.

15P

No executions in Myanmar since the 80's ....

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The fact that calls are often made for red shirts to 'not demonstrate' just shows that there is no need for them to do so in order to maintain the upper hand in the political situation as it stands, as far as their leaders are concerned.

The logic escapes me. If frequent calls not to protest are made to show there is no need, that should be obvious and therefor there should be no need to make that call. Unless the red-shirts are on permanent standby mode with orders to be ready to march on one hour notice.

BTW a fine example of how the government uses this 'political pressure' group to maintain the upper hand through their Pheu Thai party list MPs who just happen to be UDD leaders as well. 'peaceful protesters' dropping by if need be, to maintain the upper hand

If the red shirts did demonstrate in front of the DSI, do you think there would have been tens of thousands there? I believe Nattawut was speaking directly to those who would have been bothered to turn up ie activists numbering in the hundreds, and didn't want a needless escalation taking place.

It is obvious - as you say - that demonstrating is not needed in this case, or to put it another way, not enough people care enough about it to demonstrate. The majority of red shirt followers know this, but the small numbers of activists don't and they are the ones who Nattawut was trying to put off, and with good reason I believe. Stoking tensions further cannot serve the government well.

nowadays most 'rallies' seem to attract a few hundred during the week, with one or two thousand in weekends and holidays. Anyway not all of them are 'activists', I've been told a few times that the majority is peaceful.

I didn't say it's obvious no demo needed; that's what you wrote (see above); I'm just wondering why someone would talk about 'the need or no need to rally' in this case (at the DSI tomorrow).

So let's see, Dept Minister for Transport and Pheu Thai party list MP Nattawut who also happens to be UDD leader tell the 'active' part of his red-shirts there is no need for them at this moment. Interesting to say the least

If a sufficiently large number of people feel strongly enough about a subject, then there is a need to demonstrate. If a small group of hotter-headed people decide to turn up at an event and their presence is likely to increase tension, then that is not needed by anyone.

I suppose it all hinges on how many people you think would turn up at the DSI if Nattawut didn't say what he said. I think not many, but it would have increased tensions, which would not have served anyone particularly well.

With regard to the bit of my post you were kind enough to leave unravaged, it means that they don't have to preach to the converted. They don't have to show whatever support they could muster for a demo at the risk of things getting more heated because they already feel they have the support of the majority of Thais. IMHO.

Hope that keeps things interesting for you.

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The fact that calls are often made for red shirts to 'not demonstrate' just shows that there is no need for them to do so in order to maintain the upper hand in the political situation as it stands, as far as their leaders are concerned.

The logic escapes me. If frequent calls not to protest are made to show there is no need, that should be obvious and therefor there should be no need to make that call. Unless the red-shirts are on permanent standby mode with orders to be ready to march on one hour notice.

BTW a fine example of how the government uses this 'political pressure' group to maintain the upper hand through their Pheu Thai party list MPs who just happen to be UDD leaders as well. 'peaceful protesters' dropping by if need be, to maintain the upper hand

If the red shirts did demonstrate in front of the DSI, do you think there would have been tens of thousands there? I believe Nattawut was speaking directly to those who would have been bothered to turn up ie activists numbering in the hundreds, and didn't want a needless escalation taking place.

It is obvious - as you say - that demonstrating is not needed in this case, or to put it another way, not enough people care enough about it to demonstrate. The majority of red shirt followers know this, but the small numbers of activists don't and they are the ones who Nattawut was trying to put off, and with good reason I believe. Stoking tensions further cannot serve the government well.

Why do red shirts always need to be told not to protest?

Because if they're not told, then that's the problem?

Seriously though, there are sections of the red shirt movement which will demonstrate far more readily than the rest of it. I imagine the demonstration in front of the DSI was not going to be a massive gathering, maybe just a few hundred or a thousand or so of the more jittery types in the movement - the more active activists if you like.

These smaller groups need to be reigned in as their presence could be a contributor to a violent outcome - they either attack or are attacked. So I believe Nattawut was just trying to dissuade this smaller group from demonstrating as the issue is not contentious enough to risk any confrontation or antagonism being splashed all over the news. He wants this to pass without incident.

The fact that calls are often made for red shirts to 'not demonstrate' just shows that there is no need for them to do so in order to maintain the upper hand in the political situation as it stands, as far as their leaders are concerned.

I've lived in Italy, by the way, and know what good Italian food is.

There lies the problem here. Many of us come from, or have lived in Europe or America where good Italian food is everywhere. But here you are getting food made with locally sourced ingredients. You will never get the real thing here unless you go somewhere that imports everything and you will pay a very high price for it. Good tomato sauce needs San Marzano and Pienolo tomatoes, cheese needs to be Grana Padano, mozzarela di bufala, etc., etc. One Italian restaurant here, mentioned often in this forum, uses pieces of chopped up Thai hot dogs on their "sausage" pizza. Many places use olive oil from Makro or Big C; although imported, not close to the grade used in Europe. But some places do a pretty good job with the local ingredients. You just have to try a few of them and see what works for you.

You will never find something like this here (where I used to go twice a week for years when I lived in Europe).

1. This is less true today than it was in the past. 20 years ago, for instance, it was difficult to find good bread here or any fresh dairy products. All that has pretty much changed.

2. Excellent dried Italian pasta is available readily here in Thailand and it is about the same price as it would be in Europe or America.

3. I agree with you on the cheeses; they ARE much more expensive here (although good cheese from Australia is slightly less than that from Europe). This is also true of wines because of the high taxes imposed on them here.

4. I don't agree with you on the tomato paste. Mica brand (local) is excellent and quite inexpensive.

5. And let's also remember, that some locally grown products (basil, bay leaves, rosemary, nutmeg, pepper, most meats --chicken, pork--and most fish, for instance) are cheaper here than they would be in Europe and so are the rents and electricity and labor.

6. In large part, I don't think it's the resources/ingredients for cooking that are lacking (or so much more expensive that they make Italian food here expensive) I think it is the cooking expertise and ownership. There are some people who have marginal cooking skills who come from abroad and think they can set up a successful restaurant here because no one will notice the difference. They also think they can easily train Thais to do such cooking and sit back and enjoy the profits. Or, they are not really cooks and not trained to be cooks but have a different occupation that they cannot pursue in Thailand; so they think, well, I can cook Italian, or Hungarian or whatever even if I cannot follow my real profession. That too is not easy. There is lots of competition even in the foreign food outlets here (especially Italian, see UG's points on this) and some are good but in my opinion, most are not. The restaurant reviewed here falls in the latter category (not good). Why they are charging such high prices when they are in essentially a shop house on the edge of the city (where rents are not as expensive as in the center of the city) is beyond me. And note it is not just my opinion but that of others who found their prices high and portions on the small side.

7. The olive oil sold in Makro and elsewhere here that is Extra Virgin comes from reputable brands. It is no different quality-wise than extra virgin olive oil sold in Europe or America. In fact, the EU has regulatory agencies to overlook the quality of olive oil and that applies to oil bottled for export. There does exist (especially in Italy) a huge cheating ring that makes obscene profits off of cheap (fraudulent; mixed using low grade oil from N. Africa) olive oil; but that junk is sold everywhere, including in Europe!

8. Some Thai hot dogs/sausages are very good. Many are made by companies with German or Swiss partners and are as good as anything made in Europe. I personally know a Bavarian cook renowned for his homemade sausage who once told me he thought the sausages sold by 7-11 were fantastic.

I am one of those who agrees with you. A visit to this restaurant was supposed to be a treat but didn't really turn out that way. Could you recommend what you consider to be a cheaper and better Italian restaurant so I can check it out next time? Thanks a lot.

Are kindles being sold anywhere in Chiang Mai?

I wonder what Mr. T's role in all of this was?

Isn't it obvious? He and his proxies created the economic and cultural conditions which led to these poor women feeling the need to go abroad to increase their income. Thus he is ultimately responsible for what happened to them.

Sheesh. Ye be an amateur at this, sir.

I am sure that some females from a S.E.Asian country with a name beginning with T., were already travelling abroad in order to increase their income long before Mr.T. came on the scene.

However since Mr.T. is known to be living abroad, screwing people and still making even more money, there is more of an incentive for others to copy this M.O.

OMG, you're actually being serious, aren't you. My post was satirical. Anyway, here's another gold star for hating Thaksin. *

I wonder what Mr. T's role in all of this was?

Isn't it obvious? He and his proxies created the economic and cultural conditions which led to these poor women feeling the need to go abroad to increase their income. Thus he is ultimately responsible for what happened to them.

Sheesh. Ye be an amateur at this, sir.