15Peter20

are the institutions incapable of solving this issue without Violence?

that alone means there is a need for a new constitution.

The biggest problem, is that one side of the political divide is unable to win elections.

If they could 'contemplate their navel' and re-position themselves with new leaders, it would be better for everyone. Competitive elections winnable by either side would eliminate the need for protests and seeking Governing power via the judicial system. Their responsiveness to societal needs would also improve in order to be electable.

And there definitely is a need for a revised constitution as follows:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 military coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

The biggest problem is that one side does not has the money to win the election.....PTP won with massive vote buying. If the Democrats would have put in the same amount they would have done way better.

Have the Democrats ever made a complaint or launched an investigation into vote buying during the election? One would think if they lost the election because if it, they might at least have brought it to people's attention. So far, you've done a better job of informing the world than they have.

It's just a step by the PTP to put pressure on Abhisit. Neither he or Suthep are going to spend a day in jail, convicted or not.

We are just witnessing the birth of another bargaining chip. Bringing this case is as politically motivated as Thaksin's conflict of interest conviction.

Not that there was no legal merit in bringing Thaksin's case, but when the hell does legal merit gain any traction in the upper echelons of Thai society unless there are significant players and their interests underpinning it?

Also elsewhere saw some tall Ladyboys as you said but also quite a few girls still sitting outside the main venues on Changklan

It was funny at one of them three police officers in uniform sitting at a table with them

From what I've been told, the police in that area are all working for the same scam of milking unsuspecting tourists in the Kareoke bars. The poor suckers get taken there by crooked tuk tuk drivers and are then scammed out of 30,000 baht for items they didn't order. They are over charged by the mamma san and it's all backed up by the police.

we have nicely slid from cold weather into ladyboys, scams, crooked tuk tuk drivers and karaoke bars..............Thats more like it Get in there Rene123

Yes, I think what Rene123 was doing there was getting into a 'chat'. I believe that 'chatting' is frowned upon in TV. The topic must be stuck to.

At the moment the weather is still significantly cooler than other corresponding days at this time. At least where I am it is, as far as my senses can tell.

Also elsewhere saw some tall Ladyboys as you said but also quite a few girls still sitting outside the main venues on Changklan

It was funny at one of them three police officers in uniform sitting at a table with them

From what I've been told, the police in that area are all working for the same scam of milking unsuspecting tourists in the Kareoke bars. The poor suckers get taken there by crooked tuk tuk drivers and are then scammed out of 30,000 baht for items they didn't order. They are over charged by the mamma san and it's all backed up by the police.

Actually, a couple of weeks ago I was going home in a tuk tuk at about 4am, alone and very much the worse for wear. All of a sudden I am awakened from my dozing and realize the tuk tuk guy's stopped in front of one of these karaoke joints - it may well have been on Chang Klan Rd - and all these women come out into the road and start trying to persuade me to get out and enter their establishment. A couple of them even tried to physically pull me out of the tuk tuk at one point. I managed to mumble words to the effect that it was very late and I was too drunk and not up for it and the guy started the tuk tuk and we were off again.

I thought it an odd thing to happen.

Anyway, it wasn't very cold yet at that time, as I remember.

Oddly enough, I was in there that night too. Maybe an hour after the OP. We went mainly because of recommendations in this forum.

We had pizza and spag bol. Whilst certainly not being bad, it was pretty bland in my opinion.

I agree in broad terms with the OP's assessment. This can't be one of Chiang Mai's best Italian restaurants surely.

Good if you live in the neighborhood and fancy a change from Thai - and don't mind the issue of value for money - but not worth driving across town for.

Maybe it was an off night though. I wish them well in future.

Thaksin is running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate.

He's been running out of ideas and getting more and more desperate for years now. I wonder how much more devoid of ideas and desperate he can become before he finally runs out of ideas and is officially completely desperate.

"It was the job of the government of that day to also restore order," I was there, I saw it, I totally agree.

It is always the job of government to maintain order. That's a given. The issue is about how it is done. Force has to be proportional. That's what separates the Assads from the leaders of more democratic nations (most of the time, at least).

What do you think is the proportionate response to attacks with assault rifles, grenades and RPGs?

I've heard of the fog of war but mistaking a slingshot for an assault rifle, grenade or RPG would in my opinion be hard to do even for a seasoned armchair warrior, let alone trained army personnel.

vicarious liability

So if the contact is signed in the showroom and cash payed or deposit paid before the 31st December you can claim the 100.000 back in a year ...is that correct?

No. Different models of cars get different amounts of payback, up to a possible maximum of 100K. Ask your dealer about how much the model you want will attract.

We're getting an Almera and it qualifies for 84K payback. Furthermore, the money isn't paid back all in one go. It is paid over a five year period although I'm not sure if it is paid in equal quantities over 5 years or if it's up to 20K year on year (final year less than 20K as appropriate) until the balance is paid back.

Bail Revoked! In what Country in the World would anyone accused of Terrorism get Bail in the first place.

Oh! I forgot, he was/is a MP.

Is he being accused of terrorism? A simple yes or no will do, but somehow I don't expect we'll get either.

Why isn't passing Economics 101 a prerequisite for public office at any level in any government in the world?

Dr. Gordon Brown has a phd. in economics and he managed to run up a 950 billion pound debt in the uk, proves there are educated idiots, would'nt trust him to buy a loaf of bread

Twice now you've said it, twice you've been wrong. His PHd is in history, so maybe he would be looking at buying a very old loaf.

Remind me not to read your posts again

How can he remind you if you're not going to....oh never mind.

Dems = PAD = PS

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

Two days ago he was saying that any violence by yellow shirts was going to be red shirts in disguise. Now he's defending them. I'm confused.

If Boonlert had called his rally one against corruption, left the politics out of it, he may have had more support. Unlike the reds 2010 protest, the govt way outmaneuvered the General. Thanks goodness he never had to meet an enemy at war!!! Blocked participants, had barricades in place way before they turned up and had a show of force by police the dems could never arrange. Crushed prior to birth. The reds and the Thaksin faction are in power and they will hang on to it to milk Thailand as long as they can by any means possible. The spin doctors like Chalerm pre-empting violence and then no doubt undertaking it when not called for, does not cause him any concern whatsoever. The next few days as to charges against the demonstrators, you can bet he will make examples of them to ensure people will think twice about further demonstrations. Welcome to dictatorship 'Thaksinocracy'. You wanted it, you got it.

Corruption was exactly the theme of this rally. The people had a well-advertised chance to show what they thought about this government and its handling of Thaksin (presumable his name is linked to corruption in most people's minds), Thailand and all else it is responsible for. The resulting attendance did not produce a crowd big enough to sustain a rally for more than one day. Feeling lonely yet? Move on, I say.

Thank you for setting me straight. Now I understand how the police actually were on the side of the Yellows that took over the airport whilst a pro-Thaksin government was in charge. A fickle bunch, those BIB, aren't they? Always changing sides and all...

No you don't get it.

Oh dear, I'm not doing very well at this am I? All I can do is hope that one day I will be clever enough to agree with you.

Democracy and the right to protest were the losers today.

Red shirt sycophants circling in on what they see as a victory will do well to think about Thailand as a whole rather than some crude form of cannibalistic kill.

Why not be honest for once. This was not a protest. This was a mob of thugs with a calculated purpose to incite violence and apparently create enough chaos to get military involved. Demonstrate is the last thing they cared about. They had an agenda to remove Yingluck by any means possible.

I am sure it is dissappointing to you haters that violence and chaos did not preceded military intervention and removal of Yingluck. She actually showed good leadership by keeping control of the situation and keeping the general public safe.

Time to respect the country and it's political system and stop acting like children not getting their way.

20,000 violent thugs? Yet we constantly get the "peaceful red shirts". It seems that cutting some barbed wire is much more violent than burning tyres and launching grenades.

Do you think the police should have allowed the protesters to push them back and breach their lines?

It will be interesting to compare how this govt deals with protests vs how Abhisit dealt with the 2010 shindig.

The Police did nothing for Abhisit,just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok. Big difference when they actually do their job!

I remember pro-Abhisit posters saying that his one and only mistake in the build up to the violence of 2010 was letting the protest go on for too long. That it was by Abhisit's own tolerant approach that the police 'just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok'. Now that this government is trying to avoid the same mistake and avert an escalation, we are told by the same posters the action is unacceptable. Strange.

You still don't get it! under Abhisit there was no will by the Police to clear the streets,because they sided with the Red Shirts,this time the target is much more to their liking,so they are motivated to do their job,because they don't favour the demonstraters of todays Rally. Clear now?

Thank you for setting me straight. Now I understand how the police actually were on the side of the Yellows that took over the airport whilst a pro-Thaksin government was in charge. A fickle bunch, those BIB, aren't they? Always changing sides and all...

1 Million demonstrators, huh? I hope that at least ones, one of these idiots sticks to their word and shuffles of into the sunset! Silently!

Don't charge him for treason- he is just a dinosaur, who's meteor is on the horizon!

...I won't hold my breath, though!

Apparently Boonlert is blaming the government for preventing the upcountry protesters from getting to the rally - he seems to be under the dillusion that he has massive support in Isaan as he was about 98 per cent short of his 1m people.

Providing the people that are there disperse peacefully I think the government will be quite happy with todays events - both the handling of the protests and the lack of support for their removal.

Indeed, and the Pitak leaders have also avoided tainting their image any further so it's a good result all round.

I'll refrain from using the 'guilt by association' tactic (used by anti-reds) to label all the grannies gathered in front of the stage as supporters of incitement to murder by remaining at the event after they heard a call for the death of the PM and just say that the majority of the protesters indeed appeared peaceful.

I'll also refrain from accusing those of throwing gas cannisters at the police of being treasonous terrorists despite their leaders expressing a desire to see a coup. They're just petty thugs that would be destined for short-to-medium length prison sentences in any society with a well established justice system.

Smart move to stop it by the protest organizers.

Is the demo suspended? I thought I just saw someone on stage saying it, but maybe my Thai isn't good enough. ('yok lerk choomnoom')

Edit - looks like it's over for now.

It will be interesting to compare how this govt deals with protests vs how Abhisit dealt with the 2010 shindig.

The Police did nothing for Abhisit,just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok. Big difference when they actually do their job!

I remember pro-Abhisit posters saying that his one and only mistake in the build up to the violence of 2010 was letting the protest go on for too long. That it was by Abhisit's own tolerant approach that the police 'just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok'. Now that this government is trying to avoid the same mistake and avert an escalation, we are told by the same posters the action is unacceptable. Strange.

RT@Aim_NT: 2pm police have just received order not to allow any more reporter to get into Govt House via Thewakam Bridge #Psiam

RT@Aim_NT: 2pm Government House is sealed. Reporters were formerly allowed to get in via Thewakam Bridge but not any more. #Psiam

not allowing the reporters is a real bad sign. All the defender of the government. If the government does everything right and has nothing to hide why they don't want media coverage???

Yes, that is strange. So is protesters destroying CCTV cameras when they have 'nothing to hide'.

Well who says the protester are doing that? The police? So it can be just another lie unless someone confirms it.

It was an apparently high ranking police officer speaking at a press conference about 30-40 mins ago.

Who would have to confirm it for you to believe it - the leaders of the group accused of doing it?

Neighbour said on Thai TV they are reporting that snakes have been released into the protesters. Anyone confirm?

Another entirely unsubstantiated rumor is that there are people with bottles of battery acid within the protesters ranks. Not the run of the mill supporters, but those seeking to stir things up.

RT@Aim_NT: 2pm police have just received order not to allow any more reporter to get into Govt House via Thewakam Bridge #Psiam

RT@Aim_NT: 2pm Government House is sealed. Reporters were formerly allowed to get in via Thewakam Bridge but not any more. #Psiam

not allowing the reporters is a real bad sign. All the defender of the government. If the government does everything right and has nothing to hide why they don't want media coverage???

Yes, that is strange. So is protesters destroying CCTV cameras when they have 'nothing to hide'.

At a news conference 15 mins ago an apparently high ranking police officer was saying that many CCTV cameras have been destroyed by protesters.

Weren't most of the cameras supposed to be fake ones anyway?

Don't know. What's your point?