GarryUK

The wife gave birth to our baby daughter last week and hasn't registered the birth in Thailand yet. She's under the impression I have to get translations of my passport (and possibly birth certificate) then go to the British Embassy to get something along the same lines as the affirmation of freedom to marry we got when we got married last year. I, on the other hand, don't think I need anything until we apply to register the birth in the UK or apply for her first British passport.

Do I need any translations to register the birth of my daughter in Thailand? (For first passport related answers please post in my other thread here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694440-getting-a-uk-passport-for-my-newborn-half-thai-child/)

Garry

hey can anyone help me please ?? im sitting here with a passport application form for my half thai son , im not going to register him yet , but will go to bkk next week to the embassy and submit his passport application , I was just wondering on the front of the form where its says - who is the passport for ? do I fill in my name etc or my 8 month old sons details ??? this may be a silly thing to ask but I don't have a clue !!! could someone tell me please ?? thank you !

Okay so the form I'm looking at now section one asks "What type of passport are you applying for?" which will be "Your first British Passport" and "Child (under 16)" in both of our cases.

Section two then it asks "Who is the passport for?" so I'll be putting my daughter's details down. However, it asks for a mobile phone number and email address which I'm not sure whether to leave blank, put the wife's details or mine.

My daughter is newborn so for section three I'll just be marking NO (she hasn't been included on any sort of passport before).

Section four seems quite straight forward, it's just the wife's details and mine.

Section five "Certificate of registration or naturalisation" I'll be marking NO as we've not yet registered the birth. Section six isn't relevant as the child is under 12 years old. Section seven is blank.

Section eight "More information" will contain the nationality and email address of my countersignatory as requested in the guidance notes against section 10. Section nine is just my signature and relationship to my daughter, and section ten is all the countersignatorys details.

Matt8473 I'm still confused myself about the countersignatory, have you submitted your application yet? Any additional comments or advice you can add since your last post? In some ways I feel lucky that I'm still in the UK after my daughter was born a few days ago so other than trying to get a photo that will be acceptable it's given me the opportunity to get somebody here to countersign for me. Had I have been in Thailand when she was born I don't know how I could have got someone to countersign short of sending the form back to the UK via UPS and getting them to courier it back to me, and from previous experience with the tourist visa paperwork I know that wouldn't have been cheap (or if the photo isn't acceptable won't be cheap).

Garry

The tourist visa is a good decision. With the birth of your child to look forward to, you don't want the stress of having to do a border run when all you want to do is be your wife and, after the birth, with your newborn.

I forgot the form (left it at work yesterday) so can't post it until Monday, but I was unsure on exactly how to complete it so I wonder if someone wouldn't mind guiding me slightly.

1. Date of previous visits. Do I put "Oct 2014", "5th Oct 2014" or "5th to 20th Oct 2014"?

2. Purpose of current visit. Do I mention the birth of my child (will I then have to send a copy of the marriage certificate and will they then expect me to pay for a Non Imm O), or just put tourism?

3. Duration of proposed stay. Currently 21 days for which I don't actually need this 60 day visa and have to be careful they don't give me a 30-day visa at border control, so do I put 37 days taking me to my alternative preferred return date?

4. For departure travelling by. Same as 3 really, currently booked to return 20th April but if there are problems I'll change me flight to a later date. Due to Songkran there's nothing cheap before 1st May, but by the time I'm looking to change they could all have gone, so do I put 5th May to give me a few days leeway, or even stretch to the full 60 days?

Thanks....

An inflammatory post has been removed.

What, already! What is it with some people.

Just heard this on the news. Flight path would have taken it over the south eastern tip of Thailand but it never made it that far. Hope the worst fears are not realised.

Without a visa or a ticket out within 30 days you could be denied boarding your flight.

A tourist visa costs 25 pounds. It will only take a few days to get. You can do it by post to the embassy or in person there or at one of the consulates (issued while you wait at most of them). See: http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/401

Thanks both. I'm currently booked for 3 weeks so do have a return flight, but if I need to stay and so have to change my flight I wasn't sure of the best option visa-wise. Don't want to be an over-stayer

To be on the safe side I'll go with the recommendation of a 60-day visa, and if I end up coming home on time all it's cost me is £25.

Apologies that I've not spent days reading all the threads, it'll just give me less time to get sorted but I will do some more reading I promise

On March 25th I fly to Thailand for 3 weeks for the birth of my daughter (my wife is Thai but after returning from her UK visit we realised she would be too pregnant to fly by the time the settlement visa was processed so we decided to wait until after the birth before applying).

My current plan is to go on a 30-day visa exemption as a tourist, but if she's late or has any problems work are aware that I may extend my stay for another week or two, but that'll take me over 30 days, so would I be better applying for a 60-day tourist visa ahead of my visit? Or, as I'll be staying an hour or two from the Cambodian border should I do a visa run just before the 30 days is up? The wife tells me the visa will cost a few thousand baht, is this true, is this a legit fee or "tea money"? What's the typical processing time for a 60-day visa, basically is 3 weeks enough time to apply by post?

3-4 months after returning to the UK, and assuming she's granted a settlement visa to the UK, she wants me to fly back out to help her with the baby and luggage so it's possible I'll visit again for a couple of days. For such a short visit should I just get a 30 day on entry or might I be wise doing it some other way?

Garry

I don't log on every day so have only just seen this thread and read through it all, and I don't know how to quote many different posts across the 3 pages of messages so I'll just try to comment on some of what I read.

Our first application was refused, seems quite common. That said, I'd missed a few important bits of documentation so my refusal was easier to address when we reapplied, I just accepted what they'd picked up on and explained how each point of concern was being addressed (basically by including the missing documentation). Our second application was made less than 2 months after the first, would have been quicker but took me some time to order bank statements and post everything to the GF.

I included 5 pages of photos (8 pics per page 2 across by 4 down). I disagree with the poster that said don't date them, the event will make the date obvious. I followed the advice given to me to date them and say a few words about each picture. I met her parents and her cousin over the course of 3 trips to Thailand, but most were just holiday snaps of us together in places we visited.

I never saw the documents you posted but my Skype chat logs were edited down from 160 pages to 11 by removing 99% of the written chat leaving only video chat start and end notifications as this showed we talked at least twice a day every day but didn't reveal any inappropriate talk. Sounds like yours might have, so in the reapplication you need to do something similar with your chat logs and address the point they raised - explain you talked about how long she should come, the decision you made and why you've agreed on 3 months (job, no wish to live UK etc)

My GF was not working and did not own anything yet we were successful in getting her a visit visa from 15th June to 5th October so I disagree with people saying you're asking for too long. Your circumstances are different and she has to have time off work but if you have a letter from her employer just put in your covering letter that while you understand getting 3 months off is unusual her boss likes her and so is happy to hold her job open for that period. State that she has shown no interest in moving to England but you wanted her to meet your family, and that the visit is so long because you don't see it likely that you will get to come back again together for some time due to the cost. Do you live in the UK and visit her, or in Thailand? Obviously the latter makes her return far more believable. Did you say in your original application that should you decide in the future to get married that she wants a full traditional Thai wedding with her family so you'd marry in Thailand, but that you have no plans currently to marry? Again remove the suspicion that you may marry in the UK.

I agree you don't need a floor plan of the accommodation in the UK, I simply stated I live alone in a 3 bedroom house which I own and she'll be staying with me. I included a mortgage statement which also formed part of my financial circumstances. If you rent then I've often seen advice given that you should get a letter from the landlord giving you permission to have someone stay with you. If you're going to stay with somebody else (family or friend) then you'll need a letter from them offering you a room for the duration of her stay.

I didn't personally use an agent.

I ignore the whingers, the Negative Nellies and the borderline insane and really appreciate all of the helpful advice I've had over the years.

I've seen plenty of those who made my blood boil sometimes when they start having a go saying that you're not listening to reason and don't want to hear advice from people if it's not the answer I was looking for. Happily, for all the negatives and nay-sayers there have been far more helpful people that have given usable advice. Those people have helped me support my partner, stay in contact with her when she's in Thailand, bring her to the UK on a tourist visa and last year get married.

Next steps for me are a British passport for my baby girl due at the end of March and a settlement visa for the wife, so I too want to add my thanks to all those that have helped so far, and to all those that will help going forward. A particular mention should go out to 7by7 for all his (?) visa advice over the last 12 months or more.

Thanks to the OP too for reminding us how easy it is to recognise people for their contributions, and how sometimes people appreciate those contributions but perhaps forget to say.

Anyone thought of setting up a Facebook protest page? Please don't nominate me to start it, I don't know how... but maybe if it got a decent amount of support then firecracker films who PM'd me about making a Channel 4 documentary about people looking for love abroard and applying for tourist or finance visas might be interested in taking up the story as this is certainly related.

Hehehe, obviously I meant fiance...

From the BBC news story:

Junior Home Office minister James Brokenshire, MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup, has been promoted to the immigration brief.

Mr Brokenshire said in a tweet: "Honoured to have been asked to take on the role of immigration minister and to continue reducing net migration to sustainable levels."

In a minor reshuffle, Conservative MP Karen Bradley will take up Mr Brokenshire's former post.

Great, not only do we get a JUNIOR minister in the role, but he seems to think his brief is to stop people wanting to move to the UK. Perhaps this fee fiasco has always been intentional? What you need to be doing is stop giving immigrants houses, cars and benefits and then maybe there won't be so many coming here for the free ride, then those of us with legitimate partners won't be given such a hard time when we want our family to live together.

So really we've got nowhere in determining why this has been done to us: Everything else seems to be payable in GBP, only visa fees look to be in USD. And the standard responses they are sending out hold no weight as India and China don't have to pay in USD. While it wouldn't make it acceptable, it would at least be understandable if someone were honest enough to admit they've wasted millions on a new IT system and screwed up because no-one thought to make sure it could handle GBP. And now the immigration minister has resigned we'll be back to the beginning (not that he'd read or responded to any of our communications, so perhaps that's where we've been all along).

I go to Thailand at the end of March (protests permitting) and we'll be applying for my baby's first British passport and the wife's settlement visa. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll have to pay the former in GBP and the latter in USD, and that I'll be screwed in doing so.

Anyone thought of setting up a Facebook protest page? Please don't nominate me to start it, I don't know how... but maybe if it got a decent amount of support then firecracker films who PM'd me about making a Channel 4 documentary about people looking for love abroard and applying for tourist or finance visas might be interested in taking up the story as this is certainly related. I didn't respond to that contact as I wasn't sure if they were legit, but maybe it's worth further investigation?

Edit: Just found this, so maybe the request was indeed legit...

http://www.firecrackerfilms.com/documentaries/married-in-britain/

Is that an accurate statement that you can't submit a ring-binder?

Just doing the forms for my wife's sister to apply for a visitors visa....

Yes, when we did our visit visa application back in March 2013 they removed the spines and tabbed dividers we had used to separate the "originals" and "copies", so all that effort to make it look good and easy to follow was pointless.

Still not happy with the answer if you can call it that. Where's the honesty about why they changed the system and what flaws they failed to spot before implementing a new system. I payed the visit visa fee on the old system and I doubt very much they'd have processed her visa if they hadn't received the money, so if it wasn't broke.....

And as for "UKVI has already absorbed these (transaction) costs", then why is it still costing us more than it did on the old system? Currency conversion charges levied by the card issuer my a.r.s.e!

Have just converted the $1447 settlement visa fee into GBP via Google and it's telling me it's £876.65 right now (up from £851.00 when the fee was being quoted in Sterling). This will of course also incur the currency conversion fee charged by the card issuer on top of that increase.

The official response, from an unnamed person at the Embassy in Bangkok, says:

Thank you for your email dated 10 January.

bla bla bla, stock answer, bla bla bla

I hope this has clarified the position for you

As you are aware Tony I received the same stock drafted response today.

Me too. Was going to post it but TonyM is much more on the ball and got in first.

Have just sent an email to the address shown in the first couple of posts and to the email address I've found below, and I've posted something on Facebook, but I would prefer somewhere more public and directly targeted to air my disgust at this change. I imagine as I don't have a reference number relating to a current application that my emails will be ignored.

I'm currently looking for an email address to use to send my complaint directly to Mark Harper MP, Minister of State for Immigration.

Contacting the FCO or UKBA doesn't seem to be easy, best I have found is this:

If you have a complaint about how your visa application has been handled, or the conduct of UK Visas and Immigration staff:

• if you are in Thailand email UK Visas and Immigration in Thailand at [email protected]

My mate honestly counter-signed the form with a position description of 'Manager'. The requirements are pretty vague and end with something like 'or of similar standing' which is very open to interpretation. He had met our baby as it happens, however there was absolutely no checking of this fact and the admin lady at the embassy did not give the counter-sign a second glance. Passport was issued.

If you want to play it by the book then as a previous poster says, Skype should be sufficient - you're very unlikely to get so far down the line that you start arguing with the UK authorities about the definition of 'met'.

This and the previous response really belong in the other thread here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694440-getting-a-uk-passport-for-my-newborn-half-thai-child/

Thanks for your input. It seems the long and short of it is that if I lived in Thailand everything would be easy, but as I don't no scenario meets all the criteria, so whatever we do it will be luck of the draw as to how strictly someone wants to apply the supposed rules. After 2 calls to the passport advice line I've now sent an email enquiry to the FCO in Bangkok.

Different departments, so go with what the passport people say for the passport application.

Oh yes of course, I confused myself as I have both a visa application and a passport application to do. Why is nothing ever simple.

This is worrying reading as the visa is expensive enough as it is.

There's a link here on the Goverment's website for overseas British passport applications https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/applying/child/united-kingdom which says "Or you can fill in a payment instruction form for each passport you’re applying for and submit it with your application. Your credit or debit card will be charged in sterling". Is this now out-of-date and invalid?

The guy who signed mine works in IT, also he is Australian, it states in the application form notes that the countersignatory can also be from a commonwealth country. It says it may take longer if the countersignatory isn't a UK passport holder but that wasn't my experience.

I can't remember where I saw it written but I'm sure the babies doctor can sign for you.

See my last post. The Doctor, being Thai, can't act as counter signatory for the wife.

Ok so even before 7by7 suggested I try phoning the advice line again I'd already planned to do that, but good advice if I hadn't thought about it.

I did indeed call earlier and this time got a much more helpful guy called James, but after a lot of questions I'm still no nearer an answer:

1. The person completing the application form must live in the country from which the application is being made, and that must be the country in which the child is living at the time which is Thailand, as the passport must be sent to that person (in Thailand). Well I live in the UK which rules me out so.....

2. The wife (currently) lives in Thailand so she fulfills the above criteria. However, the counter signatory on the form must hold a UK, Commonwealth, Irish or US passport and be employed in specific roles in the UK. Now that rules out anyone Thai that knows her, and even by some remote chance she knew a Brit living over there they can't countersign because they're not employed in the UK. So how remote are the chances that she's known someone in the UK in suitable employment for more than 2 years that just happens to be visiting Thailand at the time of the application who can act as counter signatory? If all those planets align I want them to pick me some lottery numbers!

3. James did ask if I could get emergency travel documents or a temporary passport to bring the baby to the UK. If possible this would be the perfect solution as I could then make the application in the UK where I know plenty of suitable counter signatories, and they could even have seen the baby. Sadly though, initial reading suggests this might not be an option either as the government website states "You can apply for an emergency travel document if you’re a British national outside the UK and your passport has been lost, stolen, damaged or has expired" but in our case our daughter hasn't yet ever had a British passport.

It seems that if I actually lived in Thailand with the wife then everything would be easy, other than the fact of having to send the application form and photos to the UK for someone to countersign and send back, only for the Embassy to then send the application back to the UK yet again. However, because I don't, the process seems to be impossible.

I'm now sending an email to [email protected] in the hope of getting some advice over what I can do.

After the child is born, show you and your baby on Skype to the countersigner in the UK.

Then courier the completed application forms and photos to the countersigner in the UK.

He or she couriers them back again.

Apply for the passport here in Thailand.

The guidance notes state they must have known YOU for 2 years and know that you have guardianship of the child and have seen the child and read the contents of the application form and accept them as correct.

This seems workable but you should check with the passport office.

I will expand on this in the other thread as this one was concentrating on whether or not I would have to pay two visa fees, which it appears is agreed that I would, so we will stick with trying to get a passport.

A quick one for someone like 7by7 to answer...

For those that haven't helped me along my path since I met my wife back in 2012 I'm English, my wife is Thai. Having got pregnant whilst in the UK on a tourist visa in 2013 she returned to Thailand (as the visa required) and we got married, but the UKBA take so long to process settlement visa applications that we decided she should have the child in Thailand and then we'd look at getting them both over here. The original and obvious plan was to apply for a British passport for my child, then a settlement visa for my wife (see thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694440-getting-a-uk-passport-for-my-newborn-half-thai-child/), but I've hit a snag and might need a plan B. In brief, according to the passport office, I need a counter signatory that satisfies certain criteria including being able to identify both me and my child. Nobody in Thailand satisfies those requirements, and those in the UK that do satisfy most of them won't have seen the child, so technically they can't counter sign for me.

So I started thinking about doing things differently. What if I get both the wife and child a visa, then once the baby is in the UK someone that satisfies all the requirements can counter sign the photos and we can apply for a passport. However, please tell me I'm wrong and that it won't cost me DOUBLE as the £851 fee for the wife is bad enough let alone the issue of them now charging in USD adding a further 8% onto that (see thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695684-uk-visa-fee/)

Garry

I called the passport advice line today, firstly selecting the option based on me being in the UK. The English girl was really nice and helpful, but pointed out that as the baby will be born in Thailand I must select the option for overseas applications. I called back and selected the correct option this time, and got a Northern Irish lady called Julie, but I wasn't particularly impressed with her apparent "jobsworth, it's just the rules, nothing I can do about it" stance she seemed to take. She really didn't seem to want anyone from outside the UK to get a passport, not really the job for her...

It seems I'm in a situation I can't win as she says the counter signatory must hold a British (Irish or US) passport, have known me for at least 2 years, not be related to me, and must work in one of the listed professions. I work in IT, but when I asked about my manager they said he had to be a manager of the company not just a departmental manager, so I tried his manager, Group CIO of the UK division of a multinational company, but they wanted to know if he has a degree in his field of work and suggested if I used him he might not be suitable as he's not a director. I even tried the Group HR Manager which again they talked about needing a degree or being a director. They suggested my doctor, and dentist is listed as a suitable profession but, even if I can find someone they deem suitable....

The counter signatory must confirm both my identity, and that of my baby - if asked they must be able to identify my baby. Now forgive me if people that already have kids disagree, but in my mind even if my best friend had seen my baby on two or three occasions, I bet if asked to pick her out of a room containing ten newborns that he wouldn't be able to. Damn, I'm even worried I might not be able to as I'll only be over for a few weeks for the birth before having to come back to the UK while we sort out the passport and apply for the wife's visa.

So my catch 22 - while I'm in Thailand I have no-one suitable as a counter signatory, and when I return to the UK no-one that is suitable will have seen the baby let alone be able to identify her.

Anyone got any ideas, particularly people that faced or helped resolve the same issue?

Garry.

Update:

My Thai wife was born 1984, should that make any difference? The guidance notes state the grandparents details are required if both parents were born 1983 or later, or outside the UK. I was born in the UK before 1983 so we don't need them right?

It mentions a counter signatory and by the sound of things this needs to be someone with a UK passport that knows me. As I'll be travelling to Thailand alone does this mean I'll have to delay the passport application until I'm back in the UK and can find someone suitable to countersign?

But... "The counter signatory must... be able to identify the child". This won't be possible, the child will be with it's mother in Thailand and no-one that qualifies as a counter signatory will have ever seen it, so what can I do? I guess for this one I'll have to call the passport advice line (0300 222 0000) right?

Garry

I married my wife in Thailand in October 2013 after she'd spent 4 months in the UK with me on a tourist visa, this was always our plan. However, we found out in September that she was pregnant, and we realised that by the time a spouse visa had been approved she'd be too pregnant to be allowed to fly, so she's having the baby in Thailand in March and I'll be flying out there to be with her.

As soon as the baby is born I'd like to apply for a UK passport, and this is where I've got confused. I did a search for "british passport for child in thailand" and one of the first links was about registering a birth abroad, but then I found a post on this forum which directed me here:

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/applying/child/united-kingdom

In that link it says the passport will cost me £104.51 so...

Question 1: Do I need to register the birth to apply for a passport? The more reading I've done I'm tempted to think not.

Question 2: The payment instruction form requests applicants name and DOB, then later card holders name and address. Based on the required identification evidence required (which of course a newborn won't have), am I right in assuming that I'm the applicant not the baby? Here's the form:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190989/OS_Payment__Instruction_07.13.pdf

Assuming the applicant is me I'll have my passport (of course) which I expect will count as the photo evidence, and I'll have my last P45 (tax record?) and a letter from my employer stating my salary (employment record?), both of which I have as part of the wife's spouse visa application we'll also be doing at the same time. We'll both have our birth certificates and our Thai marriage certificate (with translation obtained for her previous tourist visa application). I'm the only British parent and was born before 1983 so I believe I don't need the birth certificates of my parents but I'm confused by section E of the supporting documentation guidance that states "If you are applying from a country that is not the country where you were born... an explanation of why you are not applying in your country of birth".

Question 3: I'm back to question 2, is the applicant the baby in which case it will be the country of birth, or me, in which case I guess the answer is "Because the baby was born in Thailand and remains with it's mother who is yet to apply for a spouse visa to move to the UK".

Hope this makes sense, I'm sure to someone that's recently obtained a passport and took their baby to the UK this'll be an easy one to clarify for me?

Garry