Getting a UK passport for my newborn half Thai child

[GarryUK]

I married my wife in Thailand in October 2013 after she'd spent 4 months in the UK with me on a tourist visa, this was always our plan. However, we found out in September that she was pregnant, and we realised that by the time a spouse visa had been approved she'd be too pregnant to be allowed to fly, so she's having the baby in Thailand in March and I'll be flying out there to be with her.

As soon as the baby is born I'd like to apply for a UK passport, and this is where I've got confused. I did a search for "british passport for child in thailand" and one of the first links was about registering a birth abroad, but then I found a post on this forum which directed me here:

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports/y/thailand/applying/child/united-kingdom

In that link it says the passport will cost me £104.51 so...

Question 1: Do I need to register the birth to apply for a passport? The more reading I've done I'm tempted to think not.

Question 2: The payment instruction form requests applicants name and DOB, then later card holders name and address. Based on the required identification evidence required (which of course a newborn won't have), am I right in assuming that I'm the applicant not the baby? Here's the form:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190989/OS_Payment__Instruction_07.13.pdf

Assuming the applicant is me I'll have my passport (of course) which I expect will count as the photo evidence, and I'll have my last P45 (tax record?) and a letter from my employer stating my salary (employment record?), both of which I have as part of the wife's spouse visa application we'll also be doing at the same time. We'll both have our birth certificates and our Thai marriage certificate (with translation obtained for her previous tourist visa application). I'm the only British parent and was born before 1983 so I believe I don't need the birth certificates of my parents but I'm confused by section E of the supporting documentation guidance that states "If you are applying from a country that is not the country where you were born... an explanation of why you are not applying in your country of birth".

Question 3: I'm back to question 2, is the applicant the baby in which case it will be the country of birth, or me, in which case I guess the answer is "Because the baby was born in Thailand and remains with it's mother who is yet to apply for a spouse visa to move to the UK".

Hope this makes sense, I'm sure to someone that's recently obtained a passport and took their baby to the UK this'll be an easy one to clarify for me?

Garry

[GarryUK]

Update:

My Thai wife was born 1984, should that make any difference? The guidance notes state the grandparents details are required if both parents were born 1983 or later, or outside the UK. I was born in the UK before 1983 so we don't need them right?

It mentions a counter signatory and by the sound of things this needs to be someone with a UK passport that knows me. As I'll be travelling to Thailand alone does this mean I'll have to delay the passport application until I'm back in the UK and can find someone suitable to countersign?

But... "The counter signatory must... be able to identify the child". This won't be possible, the child will be with it's mother in Thailand and no-one that qualifies as a counter signatory will have ever seen it, so what can I do? I guess for this one I'll have to call the passport advice line (0300 222 0000) right?

Garry

Edited January 6, 2014 by GarryUK

[BIGJIMMY]

I recently did it for our son, he was born in Thailand, I'm British - 37 years old, the wife is Thai, I went to The British Embassy in Bangers with the relevant passport photos of little Ellis, my A4 size original birth certificate and the money, I got a mate to complete the writing on the back of the photo and he also had to fill out his address details on the application form, we hadn't done that and I was made to call him from The Embassy to get those details, we paid a few baht more to get the application sent to our house in Pattaya, it turned up about a month later. We registered the birth at a later date - we should have done it at the time, you don't need to do this but I wanted a UK style birth certificate for him, you have to pay for that as well, it's not a requirement to get the passport though.

Hope that helps.

Jimmy

[TexasRanger]

Apparently you can get the childs doctor to sign the passport picture if you don't know anyone else. I got a mate to do it, wasn't British though, We didn't register the birth but the passport application was easy.

[GarryUK]

I called the passport advice line today, firstly selecting the option based on me being in the UK. The English girl was really nice and helpful, but pointed out that as the baby will be born in Thailand I must select the option for overseas applications. I called back and selected the correct option this time, and got a Northern Irish lady called Julie, but I wasn't particularly impressed with her apparent "jobsworth, it's just the rules, nothing I can do about it" stance she seemed to take. She really didn't seem to want anyone from outside the UK to get a passport, not really the job for her...

It seems I'm in a situation I can't win as she says the counter signatory must hold a British (Irish or US) passport, have known me for at least 2 years, not be related to me, and must work in one of the listed professions. I work in IT, but when I asked about my manager they said he had to be a manager of the company not just a departmental manager, so I tried his manager, Group CIO of the UK division of a multinational company, but they wanted to know if he has a degree in his field of work and suggested if I used him he might not be suitable as he's not a director. I even tried the Group HR Manager which again they talked about needing a degree or being a director. They suggested my doctor, and dentist is listed as a suitable profession but, even if I can find someone they deem suitable....

The counter signatory must confirm both my identity, and that of my baby - if asked they must be able to identify my baby. Now forgive me if people that already have kids disagree, but in my mind even if my best friend had seen my baby on two or three occasions, I bet if asked to pick her out of a room containing ten newborns that he wouldn't be able to. Damn, I'm even worried I might not be able to as I'll only be over for a few weeks for the birth before having to come back to the UK while we sort out the passport and apply for the wife's visa.

So my catch 22 - while I'm in Thailand I have no-one suitable as a counter signatory, and when I return to the UK no-one that is suitable will have seen the baby let alone be able to identify her.

Anyone got any ideas, particularly people that faced or helped resolve the same issue?

Garry.

[TexasRanger]

The guy who signed mine works in IT, also he is Australian, it states in the application form notes that the countersignatory can also be from a commonwealth country. It says it may take longer if the countersignatory isn't a UK passport holder but that wasn't my experience.

I can't remember where I saw it written but I'm sure the babies doctor can sign for you.

[7by7]

Deleted, see other topic.

Edited January 11, 2014 by 7by7

[GarryUK]

Ok so even before 7by7 suggested I try phoning the advice line again I'd already planned to do that, but good advice if I hadn't thought about it.

I did indeed call earlier and this time got a much more helpful guy called James, but after a lot of questions I'm still no nearer an answer:

1. The person completing the application form must live in the country from which the application is being made, and that must be the country in which the child is living at the time which is Thailand, as the passport must be sent to that person (in Thailand). Well I live in the UK which rules me out so.....

2. The wife (currently) lives in Thailand so she fulfills the above criteria. However, the counter signatory on the form must hold a UK, Commonwealth, Irish or US passport and be employed in specific roles in the UK. Now that rules out anyone Thai that knows her, and even by some remote chance she knew a Brit living over there they can't countersign because they're not employed in the UK. So how remote are the chances that she's known someone in the UK in suitable employment for more than 2 years that just happens to be visiting Thailand at the time of the application who can act as counter signatory? If all those planets align I want them to pick me some lottery numbers!

3. James did ask if I could get emergency travel documents or a temporary passport to bring the baby to the UK. If possible this would be the perfect solution as I could then make the application in the UK where I know plenty of suitable counter signatories, and they could even have seen the baby. Sadly though, initial reading suggests this might not be an option either as the government website states "You can apply for an emergency travel document if you’re a British national outside the UK and your passport has been lost, stolen, damaged or has expired" but in our case our daughter hasn't yet ever had a British passport.

It seems that if I actually lived in Thailand with the wife then everything would be easy, other than the fact of having to send the application form and photos to the UK for someone to countersign and send back, only for the Embassy to then send the application back to the UK yet again. However, because I don't, the process seems to be impossible.

I'm now sending an email to [email protected] in the hope of getting some advice over what I can do.

[GarryUK]

The guy who signed mine works in IT, also he is Australian, it states in the application form notes that the countersignatory can also be from a commonwealth country. It says it may take longer if the countersignatory isn't a UK passport holder but that wasn't my experience.

I can't remember where I saw it written but I'm sure the babies doctor can sign for you.

See my last post. The Doctor, being Thai, can't act as counter signatory for the wife.

[matt8473]

hey can anyone help me please ?? im sitting here with a passport application form for my half thai son , im not going to register him yet , but will go to bkk next week to the embassy and submit his passport application , I was just wondering on the front of the form where its says - who is the passport for ? do I fill in my name etc or my 8 month old sons details ??? this may be a silly thing to ask but I don't have a clue !!! could someone tell me please ?? thank you !

[GarryUK]

hey can anyone help me please ?? im sitting here with a passport application form for my half thai son , im not going to register him yet , but will go to bkk next week to the embassy and submit his passport application , I was just wondering on the front of the form where its says - who is the passport for ? do I fill in my name etc or my 8 month old sons details ??? this may be a silly thing to ask but I don't have a clue !!! could someone tell me please ?? thank you !

Okay so the form I'm looking at now section one asks "What type of passport are you applying for?" which will be "Your first British Passport" and "Child (under 16)" in both of our cases.

Section two then it asks "Who is the passport for?" so I'll be putting my daughter's details down. However, it asks for a mobile phone number and email address which I'm not sure whether to leave blank, put the wife's details or mine.

My daughter is newborn so for section three I'll just be marking NO (she hasn't been included on any sort of passport before).

Section four seems quite straight forward, it's just the wife's details and mine.

Section five "Certificate of registration or naturalisation" I'll be marking NO as we've not yet registered the birth. Section six isn't relevant as the child is under 12 years old. Section seven is blank.

Section eight "More information" will contain the nationality and email address of my countersignatory as requested in the guidance notes against section 10. Section nine is just my signature and relationship to my daughter, and section ten is all the countersignatorys details.

Matt8473 I'm still confused myself about the countersignatory, have you submitted your application yet? Any additional comments or advice you can add since your last post? In some ways I feel lucky that I'm still in the UK after my daughter was born a few days ago so other than trying to get a photo that will be acceptable it's given me the opportunity to get somebody here to countersign for me. Had I have been in Thailand when she was born I don't know how I could have got someone to countersign short of sending the form back to the UK via UPS and getting them to courier it back to me, and from previous experience with the tourist visa paperwork I know that wouldn't have been cheap (or if the photo isn't acceptable won't be cheap).

Garry

[GarryUK]

Have started a new thread as the baby hasn't been registered in Thailand yet so I'm seeking advice on what paperwork and translations I need (if any) to register the birth and get a Thai birth certificate which we need for this passport application.

Replies relating to this should be posted here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/713122-registering-a-birth-for-a-thai-birth-certificate/

Thanks.

[FiftyTwo]

You need your full length British Birth Certificate (original)

Her Birth certificate (or Thai ID card if she doesn't have a birth certificate) plus translation into English.

Your marriage certificate plus translation into English.

You don't need the baby passport photo countersigned, you don't need the passport application countersigned.

(That is only for people applying from within the UK)

I've done one (two years ago), and the British Consulate, said countersigning not needed.

They also took photocopies of all original documents and returned them to me on the spot.

Rules have just changed, so nobody has the exact info you want at the moment.

Only what they did last year or before.

Edited March 23, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[GarryUK]

Went to the British Embassy in Bangkok earlier. Asked if I needed anything from them to get the birth registered in Thailand (as the wife swears that I need something or other certifying there) and they said not. Asked about photos (actually left them at the hotel and they don't allow you to take your phone in which had copies on it so I couldn't show her what I have), she said they are quite flexible given that you can't get a 4-day old baby to open it's eyes and look at the camera. Gave me a checklist of supporting documents - either I've read wrong on the Internet or what I read was incomplete, so for the benefit of others you will need:

1. Child's Thai birth certificate and English translation.

2. Full birth certificate of English parent(s) which shows the name of your/their parents.

3. Marriage certificate if parents are married (and English translation if required, for example they married in Thailand).

4. Evidence that past marriages are dissolved either by death or divorce.

5. Original passport and full colour copy of EVERY page (including blanks) of English parent.

6. Original passport of Thai parent.

7. Two photos (colour on white background), one countersigned.

8. Completed application form.

9. Parents deep poll or name change certificate (if applicable).

10. Proof of address (and English Translation if you live elsewhere).

11. Payment has to be made in POUNDS STERLING using a debit or credit card. You need to complete a separate form containing all the card details (the applicant's name and DOB, type of card, card number, valid from and expiry dates, security number, cardholders name, address, telephone and email, and it has to be signed).

I wasn't aware that I needed a full copy of every page in my passport and that it must be in colour, just thought they'd want the main details page. And I swear I've always read photos on a pale blue or grey background but this form tells me white which is fortunate.

Why have I bothered to write this when most people probably know most of it? Well, apart from the fact that I've been planning this for at least 4 months and there were bits that would have caught me out, the Thai girl dealing with me in the British Embassy told me something very interesting that I haven't heard or read anywhere else yet.

PASSPORT APPLICATIONS HAVE TO BE SENT TO THE UK FROM 6TH APRIL, THE EMBASSY WILL STOP PROCESSING THEM.

Whether that means following the changes you can apply in the UK (and take or post the passport to Thailand yourself) I'm not sure, but at the moment I have it in my head that I had to apply from Thailand because that's where the baby currently lives.

[KunMatt]

We registered my son and applied for his UK passport at the same time at the British Embassy 2 years ago. Now it seems like they have changed the system and I'm now trying to do it for my daughter here.

I believe that now you still apply for the registration at the British Embassy as before but the passport needs to be applied for at the UK Visa Application Centre in the Trendy Building on Soi 13.

Also, if the birth is not registered with the British Embassy first then to apply for a child's UK passport I would need both copies of both of my parent's birth certificates, is this correct because if so then I cannot do both the registration and passport on the same day as before? I would need to wait for the birth registration certificate to arrive and then go to apply for the passport with it.

[KunMatt]

I realise this forum isn't very active but maybe this info will help someone in the future.

I've just applied for my daughter's UK birth certificate at the UK Embassy and then I went to the Visa Application Centre at Trendy floor 28 to check I had all the correct paperwork and to book an appointment for when I have received the birth certificate so I can then apply for the child's UK passport.

I need to have a colour copy of every page of my UK passport but just a colour copy of the first page of the mother and daughter's Thai passports.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GarryUK]

I realise this forum isn't very active but maybe this info will help someone in the future.

I've just applied for my daughter's UK birth certificate at the UK Embassy and then I went to the Visa Application Centre at Trendy floor 28 to check I had all the correct paperwork and to book an appointment for when I have received the birth certificate so I can then apply for the child's UK passport.

I need to have a colour copy of every page of my UK passport but just a colour copy of the first page of the mother and daughter's Thai passports.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Plenty of people told me the information I was being given by the Embassy regarding the need to provide a complete full copy of your (British) passport was wrong, so glad to see you were given the same information (hopefully by VFS at Trendy which shows everyone is working off the same page).

We didn't register the birth first, assuming the wife's visa is approved we'll look at whether that can be done when they arrive in the UK.

You only need your parents' (British) birth certificates if you're below a certain age, as I'm older we didn't.

[Boatworxthailand]

Hi Garry,

I just wanted to say thank you for this listing it is very helpful. My daughter is nearly one year old and we are planning to bring her to the UK for the first time.

I copied and printed your list of requirements as it is much clearer and easier to follow than the one from the government website.

I went on here to find out if the requirement about the baby needing photo ID was really true as Thai babies, I think most babies anywhere, don't have photos on any of their official documents. It seems to me from what you and some others have written is that it is not needed, so that is a relief.

One last thing, please let me apologize on behalf of Northern Ireland for the horrible call center girl you spoke to! I promise some of us are nice and are even an asset to the UK rather than a hindrance!

Thanks again,

Glyn

[KunMatt]

 

I went on here to find out if the requirement about the baby needing photo ID was really true as Thai babies, I think most babies anywhere, don't have photos on any of their official documents. It seems to me from what you and some others have written is that it is not needed, so that is a relief.

I am quite sure that you do need photo ID of the baby which is why you need to make the child's Thai passport first and then use it to register the birth with the British Embassy and/or apply for a UK passport. The British Embassy took a photocopy of my child's Thai passport and the VAC told me to bring a colour copy of the first page of the Thai passport too.

[7by7]

Two points:

1) It is not a legal requirement to register the child's birth via the British embassy; doing so is entirely voluntary.

Register a birth abroad

You must register your child’s birth according to the regulations in the country where the child was born. They will give you a local birth certificate.

Once you’ve done this you may be able to apply to register the birth with the UK authorities.

You don’t have to do this, but it means:
you’ll get a UK-style birth certificate for the child
you’ll have proof that the child is a British citizen
the birth will be recorded with the General Register Office in the UK


A locally-issued birth certificate should be accepted in the UK for all purposes, eg applying for a passport, registering with a school or doctor etc. It might need to be translated and certified if it’s not in English.

(my emphasis)

2) A child born outside the UK (or a qualifying territory) will only be automatically British if at least one of their parents is British otherwise than by descent (see here for full explanation of this). (Note the rules have changed over time, this is for children born after 1/6/2006)

To show that this is so, the British parent's long form birth certificate (or naturalisation certificate) is required.

[TexasRanger]

It's sad you have to use vfs now as we recently did my daughter's uk passport direct at the British embassy and the service was excellent. I hope vfs will work as well. But with doing all the visa applications as well I seriously doubt it will be as easy.

[KunMatt]

It's sad you have to use vfs now as we recently did my daughter's uk passport direct at the British embassy and the service was excellent. I hope vfs will work as well. But with doing all the visa applications as well I seriously doubt it will be as easy.

When I went to the VFS the other day it was absolutely rammed with people because they do UK and Australia visas and passports in the same room. Luckily I just needed some info so I went to a counter which didn't require a queue number and I then booked an appointment to make my child's passport next week. It was much better before when you could make the registration and passport at the same time at the British Embassy.

[daveyravey]

Great info on this page thanks.

Two questions.....

Does the child have to go to the VFS office with the parent also?

Would a photocopy of the Thai mums birthcertificate suffice. She only has a copy, not original.

Thx

[TexasRanger]

Unless things have changed, the kid doesn't need to go, and if going for a uk passport it is only your birth certificate that is needed.

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk

[daveyravey]

I just emailed for an appointment for next week. This is the reply i got.

I am amazed that an official British agency can give information like this. It appears a 5 year old child wrote it!!

Rule Brittania no more i am afraid!

plus to add insult to injury it is written in far cking American!!

Importants for HMPO

*The application what apply in Bangkok, Thailand will process and be considered by HMPO in the UK at least 4 weeks up to 6 months approximately

*Please provide your passport and whole pages color copies with your signature on every pages, the other document can be in black-white.

*Thailand country only accept the payment by Credit/Debit card, require to print out and complete the payment form. Submit at the same time with document at HMOP Bangkok Center.

*The applicant need to apply in person in Bangkok, Thailand only

*No posting service but you can allow someone to collect it with your authority latter, please inform it on the day you apply.

*All documents which are not in English need to be translated into English with the official stamp

*The children no need to attend, the parent can apply on behalf of him/her

[KunMatt]

I just emailed for an appointment for next week. This is the reply i got.

I am amazed that an official British agency can give information like this. It appears a 5 year old child wrote it!!

Rule Brittania no more i am afraid!

plus to add insult to injury it is written in far cking American!!

[/size]

Importants for HMPO[/size]

*The application what apply in Bangkok, Thailand will process and be considered by HMPO in the UK at least 4 weeks up to 6 months approximately[/size]

*Please provide your passport and whole pages color copies with your signature on every pages, the other document can be in black-white.[/size]

*Thailand country only accept the payment by Credit/Debit card, require to print out and complete the payment form. Submit at the same time with document at HMOP Bangkok Center.[/size]

*The applicant need to apply in person in Bangkok, Thailand only[/size]

*No posting service but you can allow someone to collect it with your authority latter, please inform it on the day you apply.[/size]

*All documents which are not in English need to be translated into English with the official stamp[/size]

*The children no need to attend, the parent can apply on behalf of him/her[/size]

That's pathetic isn't it? How hard is it really to get a British person to one time proof read the reply email you send to every applicant?

Having said that, I didn't see any British person working at the VFS, or at the British Embassy!

[thomas28]

I was given wrong information when I called the passport advice line two weeks ago about my child passport.

I have just been in Thailand with my wife and we had a newborn son, I returned to the UK last week. The passport advice line suggested I could get my son's passport in one week (fast track) when I return and made me an appointment at the London passport office. He stated "it would be quicker this way than applying from thailand. "

I went to the office on Wednesday to find out you can't apply for an oversea's applicants passport within the UK if the applicant is not present in the country.

My son is in Thailand, so they are trying to say I have to travel back to Bangkok to have an interview and submit my application from there.

Now the application then gets sent from Thailand to the UK back to Thailand. All I want to do is submit the application from the UK as I am presently here and working.

It doesn't make any sense travelling abroad to send an application back to the country I am in at the moment.

Has anyone ever submitted an overseas passport application whilst in the uk ?

[daveyravey]

I just sent an email explaining that i dont understand what documents i need on their chart. Could they confirm some details before i travel to Bangkok.

They re-sent me a link to their chart.

Being British sucks if you live in Thailand. We get no help whatsoever.

[eezergood]

Has anyone else done this recently?

[KunMatt]

Has anyone else done this recently?

I did. I submitted my child's application weeks ago and I have little confidence to be honest.

I had walked in to check all paperwork, like I posted here before, and they gave me an appointment for 10 days later. When I went to the appointment there was no appointment and the desk staff told me I had to book an appointment online. In the end they got someone to do the application but I'm guessing she has never done it before because she was asking me what I needed to submit and if it was OK, and so on.

I will find out at the end of the month if everything was accepted. I submitted copies of my passport, my child's Thai passport, my partners Thai passport, my UK birth Certificate, my partners Thai birth certificate and translation, my child Thai birth certificate and translation and my child's UK registration certificate.

Crossing fingers is all I can do right now. The last time we did it for my first child was so much easier for every aspect.