silver sea

One very important thing to note on the triple entry visa sticker that has been put in the passport by the Embassy or Consulate is the "Enter Before" date e.g. 12th September 2014.

Could the Commissioner clarify whether that means either:

(1) you have to activate the third and final entry on your visa by 11th September 2014 at the latest; or
(2) you have until midnight on 12th September to do so.

I have always assumed that it meant (1), but I have noted one or two posts on ThaiVisa which suggest that travellers have been told by Immigration staff that (2) in fact applies.

When Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) staff working abroad in one of the Thai Embassies or Consulates receive an application for a triple entry visa, they will also receive the applicant's passport. This means that they can check what previous visas have been granted. If the staff then accept payment from the applicant, and issue the visa, even if several recent visas have already been issued, would the Commissioner accept that his staff should not stop the passport holder from entering Thailand on the first entry or from activating the second and third entries on border runs.

Whilst it is accepted that his staff have the final say on whether permission to stay is granted, that permission should only be refused if his staff have additional information that was not available to the MFA at the time it accepted payment of the fees and granted the visa application. Clear evidence of working in Thailand would be good reason to refuse entry, but a mere feeling that the traveller has had too many recent tourist visas would not.

Edited to add phrase in second paragraph about MFA accepting payment before issuing the visa.

Q: What did JAY-Z call his girlfriend before they got married?

A: Feyoncé.

Hello Ross

I am currently on a triple entry visa from the UK.

I recently did quite a long post on another thread about triple entries, which you may find of interest. It includes an explanation of how to extend the entries at Immigration and what happens on a border run. If you would like to read it then click HERE and go to post #10.

I hope that you find it helpful. Like you I was a bit confused at the beginning, but it does all make sense ... eventually! ?

Have a great time in Thailand ?

Edited to add 2 or 3 sentences for clarity.

I dont think that one would be able to get 9 month visa out of a triple entry tourist visa after the 12th of august. Never. I have a triple entry tourist visa issued in germany and I fear that I will be even denied the 2nd entry without being a few days out of country (and I have zero history of border running / whatever, a passport full of proof that I am a tourist of the world). I think I have max 8 weeks ( the 60 days initial), probably 12 if I want, but max 16 weeks! I dont think more is really possible right now. But we will see the reports after 12 of august.

You have nothing to worry about concerning August 12th. The authorities are targeting those who have been working here illegally, and have been misusing the 30 day visa exempt stamp by doing back-to-back border runs.

You say that you have "zero history of border running". You are clearly a tourist; you do not fit the profile of the people that they are targeting. So stop worrying and enjoy Thailand. It's great here!

Back in England, we call August 12th "THE GLORIOUS TWEFTH", because it is the start of the grouse shooting season. I think you'll find here in Thailand that it's turkeys not grouse that will get the bullet.

There was a discussion thread on the Samui local forum about the Corruption Hotline. Click HERE.

You could give them a ring and tell them what happened. See what they say and whether they can do anything to help you. You never know!

My own experience of Samui Immigration has been when I have applied for an extension of stay on my tourist visa for an extra 30 days. The fee is 1900 THB, but they charge everybody 1920 THB. From memory, they have even printed 1920 THB on the reverse side of the TM7 form, in the bottom right hand corner. When asked, the official explanation is that the extra sum is to cover photocopying expenses. I think that there may even be a sign on the wall to that effect.

I am not aware of other Immigration Offices elsewhere charging the extra 20 baht; at least not from reading other TV member posts who live elsewhere in Thailand anyway. Presumably, as we say in British English, they regard it as "a nice little earner."

Anyway, I am really sorry to hear about your bad experience. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Edited for typos.

Hello Ross

I am currently on a triple entry visa from the UK.

I recently did quite a long post on another thread about triple entries, which you may find of interest. It includes an explanation of how to extend the entries at Immigration and what happens on a border run. If you would like to read it then click HERE and go to post #10.

I hope that you find it helpful. Like you I was a bit confused at the beginning, but it does all make sense ... eventually! ?

Have a great time in Thailand ?

Edited to add 2 or 3 sentences for clarity.

Thank you Joe for your advice.

I currently live on Samui, and will be going back there in October; I have no plans to visit Pattaya.

Sorry, I confused you. For the past few days, I have been reading past threads on ThaiVisa relating to retirement. In one of the posts, a member gave a link to a Pattaya ex pat group or club which had drawn up a 'John and Jane' introduction to the different visas. I assumed that their fact sheet had general application to Thailand rather than being specific to Pattaya.

My local Immigration office is always likely to be Samui. Do you know if, like Pattaya, they would do the extension and conversion at the same time? I have visited them 4 or 5 times in the past and the staff members have always seemed ok and helpful. The only 'quirk' I have noticed is that they charge 1920 THB for the extension; the amount is printed on the reverse of their TM 7 form. Oficially, they say that the extra 20 THB is to cover photocopying charges.

Anyway, I have followed your advice about checking the UK Consulates. Hull and Liverpool specifically say that you have to be over 65 with a state pension. Birmingham makes reference to Category 'O', but does not say which groups are covered.

Cardiff does offer Non O ... but ... the income and savings requirements are more stringent: £1400 pm or £20,000 in your current account in the UK; no indication that you can do a 'combo'.

Click HERE.

The medical certificate is to show that you are in good health. I am not sure if that is a different requirement from the O-A's elephantiasis and leprosy. I will also need to get a criminal check.


Hello OJAS

Thank for your very helpful reply too and for dealing with each of my questions in turn.

This is the link to the Notary Public that I found on the Internet. His was the only one I checked; I am sure that his rates are competitively priced. Click HERE

At the moment, and having thought about both your posts, I still feel that applying for the conversion on Samui will be easier and cheaper.

I am a British subject; I am over 50; I no longer work, but have a UK work pension, and cash in a Thai bank account, the Siam Commercial Bank (SCB).

I am currently on a triple entry visa. It expires next month and so I fly back to the UK on 1st August. I will return to Thailand on 1st October. Next time, I would like to stay 12 - 15 months and so I would need something more than a tourist visa.

Being a UK resident, I could apply to the Royal Thai Embassy in London for an O-A (Long Stay) visa. I shall need to obtain criminal and medical reports and proof of finances.

According to the Embassy WEBSITE, however, these documents would have to be certified by a Notary Public. Having checked the Internet, Notary Publics, outside London, are likely to charge at least £210.00 (= 10,500 THB) per hour. That's in addition to the cost of getting the various documents and paying the fee for the O-A visa itself.

The second option would be to apply to the London Embassy for a Non Immigrant 'O' visa. This covers a number of categories including RETIREMENT. The sting in the tail, though, is that it is only 'Retirement (with state pension)'. Currently, in the UK, men do not receive their state pension until they are 65. So a 'Non O' is not for me.

The third and final option would be to return to Thailand on a single entry tourist visa; convert that visa to a Non O visa; and then apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.

The criminal and medical records would not be required.

This would be a lot cheaper and easier to achieve than applying for an O-A back in London.

My Questions:

1. I am not eligible for a Non O visa back in the UK. Although I am retired, I am not over 65 with a state pension, yet here in Thailand, I am eligible for a Non O, by way of a conversion. Why is that? I appreciate that the Non O visa in London is issued by the Embassy, which comes under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), whilst the conversion to Non O visa is dealt with by Immigration, which is a separate government department. Normally, visas can only be granted outside Thailand, so is this some sort of concession or exception that the MFA has delegated to Immigration, together with different eligibility rules?

2. How long is the British Embassy letter confirming the amount of my pension valid for? Is it 6 months? If so, can I use it more than once if necessary?

3. Another TV member in another thread gave a link to a support group in Pattaya, which provides a useful fact sheet and guide to visas. Click HERE.

On page 6, it gives a useful tip:

"If you are using the combination of income and bank deposit to meet the financial resource requirement, there is no time requirement for how long the funds has been on deposit. Therefore if you have even only a small amount of monthly I income, you can obtain an Embassy letter/certification, and use the combination of income and funds in a Thai bank to avoid having to have the funds on deposit for the 60 (initial) / 90 days (renewal)."

Is that advice correct? On other threads, I recall only the 60 / 90 day rule being applied, even where it is a combination of income and funds.

There is one other point I do not understand. It does not relate directly to the criminal record check of this thread, but kind of follows on from previous comments about notary services. As it is a minor point, it is not worth starting a fresh thread.

If you are an American citizen, you must make an appointment to travel to the US Embassy to swear an affidavit in front of a designated official. Click HERE for the embassy website. You can print off and complete their standard form, but you must sign the form in front of a Consul.

Fee: $50 i.e. 1592 THB

The British Embassy does not require you to attend. Click HERE. At the top of their notice, they say: "There is no need to attend. Please make your application by post." You simply print off their form, fill it in, sign it, and send it to them with the original documents in support. The Embassy then returns to you the original documents, together with a standard letter, addressed to Thai Immigration confirming the amount of your pension income.

Fee: 2620 THB (includes fee of 100 THB for them to reply by EMS)

Is there a reason for the different requirements? Both Embassies are seeking to satisfy Thai Immigration rules, so it seems strange therefore that there is not a uniform practice.

You are looking at the requirements to get a OA visa. It also require a medical check.

If want a multiple entry non-o visa you will not get one useless you are 65 or over and getting a government pension in the UK now and that would have to be applied for at one of the consulates.

You might be able to get a single entry non-o at one of the consulates. The embassy will only do the OA visa.

Nonsense, the requirement is aged 50 or higher and funding can be either showing 800k baht or 65k a month and it is irrelevant where that income comes from.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not for a multiple entry non-o visa in the UK. It is how I wrote it. The embassy will not approve them unless you are 65 for over.

4) Visiting Thailand as Pensioner aged 65 and over.

Evidence required:

a) Current DWP Pension Statement showing receipt of UK State Pension (no minimum necessary)"

From Hull website: http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/download.aspx?id=20140312100006

Hello Joe

Your input as always is appreciated by all of us.

By coincidence, I have been looking at the UK websites today and reading old ThaiVisa threads, but I am still confused. Please help!

I have been coming to Thailand since January 2012 on a succession of tourist visas. I fly back to the UK on 1st August and will then return to Thailand on 1st October. This time I would like to stay in Thailand for a year or more, so a triple entry visa lasting 9 months does not fit in with my plans.

Applying for the O-A visa in the UK is unattractive, because of the need for medical and criminal records. According to OJAS's helpful reply above, these will need to be certified by a Notary Public. He quoted a 2008 figure of £140. Ouch!

I have today been toying with the idea of returning to Thailand on a single entry tourist visa, and then seeking to convert it to a Non O. I will not then need to get the medical and criminal records. Subsequently, I will apply for an extension of stay, using a combination of income and savings in my Thai bank account.

What I do not understand though is that in the UK, you can only get a Non O if you are over 65, but in Thailand, it seems that I can convert to a Non - O even though I not over 65; you just need to be over 50.

Why the difference or am I confusing two different things?

I would think that the mother & father know what nationality the 2 accused are. Could anyone chime in and let us know.
 
I kind of doubt that they were Thai, more likely Chinese.
 
We should also consider that they have not yet been convicted of anything, and there is a possibility that they may not even be the same persons who committed the act in the first place. Mistakes have been known to occur in cases where there is much pressure to find the perpetrators quickly.

I agree that with the victim's mother breathing down their necks, and being a big news story, the police were under pressure to get a quick result ...


... but, the article does say:

... After being arrested the pair admitted the charges and were let out on bail on condition that they proved a permanent address in Thailand and later came to an agreement with the court for their passports to be returned allowing them essential travel from Thailand.

There's no suggestion, that they were made to confess to something they didn't commit, so it looks hopeful.

Interesting information.

Could you clarify one thing please?

The thread title, and the first paragraph of your post clearly relate to Koh Phangan.

What about the second paragraph though? Is that another Koh Phangan only item or does it relate to Samui as well? Although I recognise your name, I can't remember if you only post on this local Forum about Koh Phangan issues.

I notice from the news section of this forum that the police on Samui are monitoring shop signs and getting them moved if they consider them to be a hazard. Click HERE for link. If they are moving the signs, then presumably they could get the motorbikes moved at the same time, but as I say, I appreciate that your OP may have related only to Koh Phangan.

Edited to add last paragraph and link.

Thanks for clearifying that, Mario2008. This is good news for many of us. Off we go then.

And at the same time, I can`t see why there should be any doubt that the blacklisting starts after 90 days, not from day one, if apprehended.

The words "as follow", should clearify that.

That's one way of looking at it. At closer inspection questions arise as to why the wording is different. The least offense when not apprehended clearly states overstay of more then 90 days, yet when apprehended they suddenly say less than one year, which is not the same.

If the word follow would make it clear, the wording should have been more than 90 days, yet it isn't.

Hello sjaak327,

If you overstay less than 90 days and are not apprehended, you are not blacklisted; if you overstay less than a year, but are apprehended, you are blacklisted, even if your overstay is less than 90 days. You want to know why the wording is different.

Reading between the lines - ok, I admit it, I am only speculating - Immigration is giving you up to 90 days to suddenly realise, because you are having so much fun here, that you are on overstay. Rather than running around like a headless chicken, you can use that time to remain calm, book your airline ticket, get to the airport and to report to Immigration to pay your fine.

I reckon that Immigration is being very smart here and deserve credit for letting you have up to 90 days to realise your error and to sort out the problem.

Of course, during those first 90 days, you run the risk of being apprehended. If you are, then you will be blacklisted. If you live in an area where, for instance, there can be military checkpoints, as in the South, or if you are always wandering around the red light district in Bangkok late at night, where, I understand, the police seem to operate a "stop and search" policy, then the risk of being apprehended could be high.

Knowing that during those first 90 days there is a risk of being caught and blacklisted, makes it more likely that you will get things sorted out with Immigration as soon as possible. There's an incentive! If that risk were not there, an overstayer would probably just shrug his shoulders, smile, and not bother going to Immigration until the very last moment.

That's why there's a difference in the wording. You have up to 90 days to get yourself sorted out, but do it as quickly as possible, because if you don't and you are apprehended, the penalty will be more serious than a fine.

Hope that helps.

Apologies to the OP for piggybacking on to his thread, but it makes more sense than starting a fresh one. Broadly speaking I'm on topic, but my question relates to UK rather than to the Philippines.

I am currently in Thailand and fly back to the UK on 1st August. I return to Thailand on 1st October 2014.

At present, I am waiting to see how the cards fall after 12th August. As I am not returning to Thailand until 1st October, I can afford to "wait and see". In the meantime, I am weighing up my options.

One option, whilst I am back in the UK, would be to apply to the Royal Thai Embassy in London for a Non-Immigrant Visa Category O-A (Long Stay).

One of their requirements relates to proof of finances, and this is the reason for my posting.

For the Royal Thai Embassy in London's website click HERE. You will see that among the documents required are:

4. Copy of bank statement having in possession of annually income equivalent to Thai currency at

least 800,000 Baht or monthly income 65,000 Baht. (approximately GBP 14,000.00/annum)

5. In case attached copy of bank statement, the original reference letter from the banking concerned is necessary.

BTW, the figure they give of £14,000 as being worth 65,000 THB is somewhat out of date. It is currently worth about £1198.00.

My current account in the UK is with the HSBC; my Thai bank account is with the Siam Commercial Bank (SCB). My government work pension is paid in each month to my HSBC account. Whenever I am in the UK, I transfer money, via SWIFT, to my SCB account.

I am proposing to meet the financial criteria by a combination of both my income from the UK, and the monies in my Thai bank account. I have a number of concerns, and so would welcome your advice on the following questions:

Question 1: Do I need to get a formal letter from my HSBC bank to confirm the monthly pension that is paid into that account? If so, they are likely to charge a hefty fee, may be as much as the equivalent of 2500 THB, if not more. UK banking services are very expensive.

Question 2: I fly back to the UK on 1st August. Do I go to my local SCB on 31st July, and ask them to provide a bank statement and a covering letter, confirming the balance? I doubt that they would charge me much, if anything, for that letter.

I will not however be flying back to Thailand until 1st October, and so I would not be applying for this visa until just before I go i.e. towards the end of the last week of September. I have a debit card for the account, but there would be little point in trying to draw on that money whilst I am in the UK; I have my HSBC account anyway.

Question 3: Would the Thai Embassy accept an SCB letter dated 31st July, in the last week of September?

Question 4: I see that there is an SCB branch in London. Should I go to the SCB in London on the same day that I go to the embassy, and ask them to produce a formal letter to confirm the balance on that day? Again, being in the UK, they are likely to charge me an arm and a leg.

Depending on the replies, I may decide instead to apply for a single entry tourist visa. Whilst in Thailand, I would then seek to convert it into an extension of stay, by reason of retirement.

The advantages of this option would be that I would not then need the police and medical reports. The British Embassy affidavit on my UK income will cost a lot, but the fee for the SCB bank letter in Thailand is likely to be minimal.

I am in no hurry to make a decision. I am just gathering information, and I will make my final decision in mid September.

Thank you for your help.

Q: What do you call dangerous precipitation?

A: A rain of terror.

Last night I was watching a movie about a meeting with a American man named scoot...

He was invited by immigration to explain this about the crack down... Can't find it here anymore... Is it deleted or what.. Please provide me a link if anybody know

Regards

Carsten

scoot? Do you mean Scott as in Scott Mallon (an American in Bangkok)?

If so click HERE and go to post #22 and then on page 2 go to posts #28 and 32.

Hope this is what you are looking for.

Hello finy,

I have always found them ok. Their English is reasonable. It's a small office, so sometimes it's a bit crowded, and they often have several people trying to talk them at once. Despite all that, they always seem to remain polite and patient. I am sure that if you behave in a similar way towards them that they will help you.

If you decide to put in labels, with a comment in Thai, I would suggest that they are non sticky ones. Alternatively, you could have the sticky labels handy, and then ask the lady at the front desk for her permission to let you put them in to remind whoever processes your application in the back office. If you do ask her with a smile, she may well agree to your request.

Edited to add final paragraph

You cannot change to a retirement visa because it truly does not exist.

You can do a change of visa status from a tourist visa entry to a 90 day non immigrant visa entry based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement at some immigration offices. You can do this at any time during the 60 day tourist visa entry up to the last 15 days of it.

You will need to meet the financial requirement of 800k baht in a Thai bank or 65k baht income or a combination of the 2 to apply for the change. The money does not have to be in the bank for 60 days when you apply but it will need to be in the bank for that period of time when you apply for the extension of stay.

Hello ubonjoe

If going for a combination of the two, I appreciate that you need to get an affidavit from your embassy to confirm your income.

I have two questions:

1. When completing the affidavit / embassy form, do you state your income in your home currency only, and then leave it up to the Thai officials, when they consider your application, to get out their calculators to do the conversion to THB; or is it better to show the amount in THB first, with the figure in your home currency in brackets afterwards?

2. Do you have to show that this income is being transferred each month into Thailand to support your lifestyle? As I understand it, all you are saying on oath, by way of a legal document, is that you are in receipt of that income; you are not required to say where it is located. The presumption is, by the Thai authorities, that you can draw on it as required, to support yourself in Thailand.

Thanks for your help.

I agree though that the old cardboard box is worrying, but it seems to work! The first time, two years ago, I stood there for the full hour so that I could grab my passport as soon as it was put in the box. I noticed though everyone else seemed relaxed about it, so on my 5 subsequent visits I've left them to it and gone for a coffee.

I dumped my extension papers off on Friday and picked my passport up Monday. I know a bloke who leaves it there for a week sometimes. Saves waiting around for 4 hours.

Good luck if you happen to be asked to present your passport on Saturday evening and you say immigration have it. Legally you have to have your passport on you at all times but in practice you have to be able to present it even if it means going back to your house with a cop to do it.

Alternatively, if you have a hired bike, your passport will be in the owner's possession. My landlord has my passport and he is often away for long weekends, so I would not have access to my passport for several days. He rents out 89 bikes and 11 cars so he's got a big safe.

I know that the issue has been discussed several times on Thaivisa. Yes, strictly speaking, you are right: the law says that you must carry your passport at all times. I have seen young tourists walking around with theirs sticking out of their back pockets. A tempting offer that some may find difficult to resist. May be that's why the cardboard system works so well at Samui Immigration. Why risk being caught with sticky fingers at Immigration when there are plenty of opportunities to steal passports elsewhere on the island.

As well as Thaivisa, I read the Stickman Bangkok reports. He often repeats stories he has received from readers about the police stopping and searching Farangs in Bangkok; indeed he has been stopped several times himself. He has said more than once though, that a photocopy of your passport and the relevant stamps will be sufficient. If that is enough to satisfy the police in Bangkok, then it should be ok on Samui too.

I would add that I was born in Essex and spent my "yoof" there. Also, I have the kind of face that only a mother could love; indeed, as a teenager, when I resisted getting my hair cut short for school, she would say: "But your ears are your best feature!" So, although I may not have a lot going for me, the police have never asked to see my passport. I am out on my bike most days and drive all over island. I do have on me at all times, however, copies of my passport, visa, extensions, and rental agreement.

I appreciate that you have been here a lot longer than me and that you are only trying to offer helpful advice. On this occasion, I feel that the risk of losing a passport through theft or carelessness is greater than having problems with the police, because you have only photocopies of your identity to show them.

I think I pressed the "quote " button rather than the one for "edit" and so produced a double post! Have deleted the text on this post to avoid confusion. Apologies.

Doh! ?LOL ?

A pocket full of THB 20's helps reduce this.

HTH

Having a wad of THB20s at any time is always useful ?

Not unless it's stopped in the last 6 days. I picked up my passport on Monday and it was sitting in the box with about 30 others. Anyone could have taken it.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. Certainly, when I was there on 24th June it was a new tannoy and ticket system. I had to hand over the ticket to get my passport back. She pulled it out from underneath the ledge on their desk that you lean on when using their glue to stick your photo to the TR7 form. From where I was standing I couldn't see my passport until she had pulled it out.

I agree though that the old cardboard box is worrying, but it seems to work! The first time, two years ago, I stood there for the full hour so that I could grab my passport as soon as it was put in the box. I noticed though everyone else seemed relaxed about it, so on my 5 subsequent visits I've left them to it and gone for a coffee.

If you prepare all the copies they need you will only have to pay 1900 baht. I give them a copy of the passports photo page, entry stamp, arrival card, visa.

You could do that, and I appreciate that's what you do, but I'm happy just to hand over 20 baht and let them copy what they want/need.

Edited to add reply to evadgib.

Hi finy

Good to hear you've got yourself sorted.

A very, very small point: at Samui Immigration they will charge you 1920 baht, not 1900 baht. The extra 20 baht covers the cost of photocopying what they've granted for their paper records. They give you a nice smile if you can give them the 20 baht in coins in addition to the paper money.

The old system where the stamped up passports were left on the table in a cardboard box, which you could then look through unsupervised, has stopped. I always thought that system was a bit dangerous. Anyway, they now give you a numbered ticket, which you hand back to retrieve your passport. They have a loudspeaker to call out your number if you are waiting outside.

Personally, I go across the road for a coffee and a bite to eat.

They open at 8.30 am and close at 4.30 pm. They usually tell you to come back in an hour, but be aware that they shut for lunch at High Noon for an hour.

Hope this helps and that you have a great time here.