Melyn

Suthep continually claims to have the support of the people but continually refuses to go to the polls. How do you square that circle?

Polls are the least of Thailand's problems right now. Democracy is not just about voting. There's much, much more to it that just that.

Without an election there is no democracy.

It really isn't the be all and end all of democracy.

Following the rules that govern them, being fair to all citizens, acting without nepotism or cronyism and managing policies such as the rice scheme in a transparent manner are 99%

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I shall await with bated breath

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Do not blame the protesters for blocking the vote!

What the basic human right to vote ?

I don't want to live in your world!

The right to vote is no basic human right

Indeed.

Basic rights are those such as fresh air and potable water and there are places where neither is available but remain unactioned by the current regime. Rubbish burning, toxic waste, farm burn-off and polluted water are weekly events.

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Elections and then in 4 years another election.

Democracy is not perfect but if Thailand allows democracy they will eventually get fair government.

When the Bangkok elite keep taking away the people's chosen government it just leads to extremes and a divided society.

And all the cheating, lying, dishonestly and corruption just gets ignored?

Round and round the same circle how many times before you see sense?

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I feel that it will be better to have my circles rather than the repeated cicle of election then coup that Thailand has been suffering for the last 10 years. Every time that the Bangkok eleite remove a popular government they just come back even stronger.

Let us have an election and a real opposition that fights on the principlrs. It may take 20 years for democracy to fully develope but it will be better than the recuuring election/coup cycle that Thailand is suffering from now.

Thait Spot is right. You're just prolonging the same rotary club of nonsense

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I was hoping that a new interim leader might like a chance to write his name in the history books by bringing some common sense to proceedings and get all the factions together to thrash out a path that is palatable to all.

Then I read his CV

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So what is the offence , in a democracy anybody can talk to who ever they want ,though not the wisest choice from a senior government officer , but a reprimand would be sufficient , Thailand administration sure pull out some weird charges , the best they could achieve would be a resignation , but then again isn't Thailand a democracy

Playing cute are you? The political activities were not undertaken in a private capacity. He used his position as part of his political activities. How can a permanent secretary who's duty is to implement the public health policy of the elected government, perform his job if he is opposed to that public health policy and is an active proponent of overthrowing the government?

Get real.

More lies...

What did he ever do to prevent the implementation of policy?

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Suthep's been drunk on his own propaganda. He doesn't have the support of the bodies he needs on the legal, administrative or armed forces side.

He's going to need to wind his neck in and retreat.

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Whereas chalerm's just been drunk.

It's ear medicine I tell you!

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I have been hearing a lot about this Amsterdam guy,could anyone tell me a bit about him?

Google is your friend dear boy,

but in summary Robert Amsterdam is Thaksin of Arabia's dancing Farang Monkey, who is paid significant amounts of money to come up with English language propaganda on behalf of the Shins..

And defender of Pinochet to boot

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They could kill 2 birds with one stone and have Chalerm cooking sausages and Surapong slopping out noodles

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Singapore, that staunch defender of democracy, not in the least bit concerned about rebellion in its own nanny state, speaks....

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Here's where it all comes crashing down, thanks to the recent senate elections.

The coup clowns don't have the required 3/5 of the senate vote.

There will be no impeachment.

With the Senate being 49% appointed by the Ammart the numbers are very close with slightly more than 60% favouring the old-guard.

Thailand needs reform and the first reform should be an elected senate.

Why don't you quit your whinging until the details have been published.

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It is my understanding that barring the cabinet that was in place before midday, there were no other MPs left following the dissolution of the house.

That means that a new PM must be selected from the beheaded, dismembered and gelded remains.

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I believe the same applies to the fascist CAPO clique

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Demroracy is the worst form of government!

Except for all the others!

I've Googled that but I can't find it

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To be fair Abhisit & his TV fan club, how about we turn this proposal around & see how you feel about it;

Let's say Yingluck proposed this;

1. All Democrat MPs resign

2. The UDD & Nitirat appoint an interim PM to oversee the reform process

3. Well nothing really matters after Point 3

1. They already did

2. The PTP/UDD promised reform and delivered corruption instead

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Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

how is it 'reasonable' to include the PDRC but not the government side? it's moronic and doomed to failure (as is Abhisit/Suthep)

the judicial coup will force Yingluck out but Thais will be furious and it solves NOTHING

Does the proposal stipulate that either government/PTP/UDD is barred from the decision making process regarding reforms?

It does seem unclear who will participate and who will have a say, but did not notice in includes an direct exclusion.

As far as I'm aware neither of those Thaksin-led bodies had ever proposed anything

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Well its about time they started to look for a body and put this case to rest....

No doubt about that.

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Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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As has been proved again and again.............well, actually it hasn't , has it?

There's been lots of allegations, but no actual proof. I'm sure it goes on but "massive"? What does that mean exactly, can you quantify it? Or is it just one of those well "everyone knows" tangibles that are sprinkled around on this forum like confetti yet never backed up with actual facts?

It's like the NACC accusing Yingluck of being negligent in her role as Chair of the National Rice Policy Committee for not stopping corruption even though the NACC have failed in identifying any corruption themselves. Accusations are cheap.

What the NACC realised was that no one in Ms. Yinglucks government and certainly not Ms. Yingluck herself either was/is able to explain why the BAAC had to spent 880 billion Baht which the government still franctically trying to borrow close to 90 billion more (40 billion 'earned' or borrowed, so 130 no longer),

Anyway, the Abhisit proposals are of course incomplete, contentious, angering both sides. Nothing new, but at least a framework to start further discussions. Seems a bit better tan just "have elections and see about reforms later", would you say?

PS to answer the last, no doubt you wouldn't.

It's a subsidy rubl, you don't make profits on subsidies, they cost money.

Out of that 880 billion baht over two and a half years (the figure includes 100 billion baht they haven't yet paid to farmers) they have recouped 200 Billion baht in sales so far.

For perspective, the UK's farm subsidy cost in 2012 was 282.6 Billion Euros or, at an exchange rate of 45 baht to the Euro, 12,717 Billion Baht for one year.

Granted that was for all farming subsidies but seeing as the UK doesn't grow much rice and bearing in mind the total acreage in the UK dedicated to farming activity I think it puts the Thai Rice subsidy into perspective.

As you say abhisits proposals are incomplete, contentious, angering both sides. What you neglect to add is they are unconstitutional too.

Were they just too damn lazy to sell the rice?

Did someone forget?

Didn't figure out that the scheme needed money to finance the scheme?

Didn't realise that the rice would deteriorate?

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Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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As has been proved again and again.............well, actually it hasn't , has it?

There's been lots of allegations, but no actual proof. I'm sure it goes on but "massive"? What does that mean exactly, can you quantify it? Or is it just one of those well "everyone knows" tangibles that are sprinkled around on this forum like confetti yet never backed up with actual facts?

It's like the NACC accusing Yingluck of being negligent in her role as Chair of the National Rice Policy Committee for not stopping corruption even though the NACC have failed in identifying any corruption themselves. Accusations are cheap.

There has never been any accounts on the rice scheme published. Over 500 billion in the red. If that isnt massive then what is? The NACC has evidence to take cases forward against the cabinet for corruption.

In terms of cheating in the house - loads of evidence and some admissions.

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So, the other nutshell that Abhisit hinted at was that resigning would give YS an escape from the indictments with an opportunity to step back into politics in a few months.

The gamble is with her now

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The greatest sticking point is that Thaksin will never relinquish power by allowing his caretaker cabinet and caretaker PM to step aside.

The good of the country and the people mean nothing to that man.

There will never be any meaningful reforms, particularly to electoral law, if it is left up to politicians, they have to many vested interests.

The greatest sticking point is that the opposition party had years to reform and did bugger all and NOW we have Abhisit calling for an self installed 'management team', despite the fine words.

All these years and still the Thais have learned not a jot about how democracy functions and are too dumb/self interested to ever will.

Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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At the end of the day it won't matter if Yingluck is judicially removed from her position. Voters are all too familiar with the pattern, vote their PM in, judicial coup removes them...They might win the battle but they can't win the war against democracy, another candidate will step up to take her place, and will be voted into power by the electorate.

Just to remind you the 1000, time SHE was not voted in by the electorate. The P.M. removed herself, the PTP self destructed-----you are a complete wind up. My post is fact--unlike your fiction posts.

The PTP is still going as a political party , The PM dissolved parliament. Your post is not fact. The Electorate vote for MPs of their favoured party. If that political party wins enough seats the get the chance to form a government. All the MPs that are voted in or get in on the party list then vote for the person who they want as PM. It follows that the party with a majority of seats will get their choice of PM. The Party has already chosen who would be PM if the have the requisite amount of seats to win that vote and this choice is well known by the supporters of that particular party.

Ergo, by voting for their representative of a political party, they are endorsing that parties choice for PM i.e that portion of the electorate are "voting" for their PM.

It's not rocket science, or fiction.

You red boys claim to believe in democracy and votes but when push comes to shove a woman selected by her brother to head up her brother's political toy party to run a country does not follow any internationally recognised firm of democracy.

She is there because she is Thaksin's sister

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PTP is Thaksin's party! Plenty of other countries use the party list system.

For their PM?

I don't think so

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