Melyn

To be fair Abhisit & his TV fan club, how about we turn this proposal around & see how you feel about it;

Let's say Yingluck proposed this;

1. All Democrat MPs resign

2. The UDD & Nitirat appoint an interim PM to oversee the reform process

3. Well nothing really matters after Point 3

1. They already did

2. The PTP/UDD promised reform and delivered corruption instead

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Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

how is it 'reasonable' to include the PDRC but not the government side? it's moronic and doomed to failure (as is Abhisit/Suthep)

the judicial coup will force Yingluck out but Thais will be furious and it solves NOTHING

Does the proposal stipulate that either government/PTP/UDD is barred from the decision making process regarding reforms?

It does seem unclear who will participate and who will have a say, but did not notice in includes an direct exclusion.

As far as I'm aware neither of those Thaksin-led bodies had ever proposed anything

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Well its about time they started to look for a body and put this case to rest....

No doubt about that.

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Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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As has been proved again and again.............well, actually it hasn't , has it?

There's been lots of allegations, but no actual proof. I'm sure it goes on but "massive"? What does that mean exactly, can you quantify it? Or is it just one of those well "everyone knows" tangibles that are sprinkled around on this forum like confetti yet never backed up with actual facts?

It's like the NACC accusing Yingluck of being negligent in her role as Chair of the National Rice Policy Committee for not stopping corruption even though the NACC have failed in identifying any corruption themselves. Accusations are cheap.

What the NACC realised was that no one in Ms. Yinglucks government and certainly not Ms. Yingluck herself either was/is able to explain why the BAAC had to spent 880 billion Baht which the government still franctically trying to borrow close to 90 billion more (40 billion 'earned' or borrowed, so 130 no longer),

Anyway, the Abhisit proposals are of course incomplete, contentious, angering both sides. Nothing new, but at least a framework to start further discussions. Seems a bit better tan just "have elections and see about reforms later", would you say?

PS to answer the last, no doubt you wouldn't.

It's a subsidy rubl, you don't make profits on subsidies, they cost money.

Out of that 880 billion baht over two and a half years (the figure includes 100 billion baht they haven't yet paid to farmers) they have recouped 200 Billion baht in sales so far.

For perspective, the UK's farm subsidy cost in 2012 was 282.6 Billion Euros or, at an exchange rate of 45 baht to the Euro, 12,717 Billion Baht for one year.

Granted that was for all farming subsidies but seeing as the UK doesn't grow much rice and bearing in mind the total acreage in the UK dedicated to farming activity I think it puts the Thai Rice subsidy into perspective.

As you say abhisits proposals are incomplete, contentious, angering both sides. What you neglect to add is they are unconstitutional too.

Were they just too damn lazy to sell the rice?

Did someone forget?

Didn't figure out that the scheme needed money to finance the scheme?

Didn't realise that the rice would deteriorate?

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Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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As has been proved again and again.............well, actually it hasn't , has it?

There's been lots of allegations, but no actual proof. I'm sure it goes on but "massive"? What does that mean exactly, can you quantify it? Or is it just one of those well "everyone knows" tangibles that are sprinkled around on this forum like confetti yet never backed up with actual facts?

It's like the NACC accusing Yingluck of being negligent in her role as Chair of the National Rice Policy Committee for not stopping corruption even though the NACC have failed in identifying any corruption themselves. Accusations are cheap.

There has never been any accounts on the rice scheme published. Over 500 billion in the red. If that isnt massive then what is? The NACC has evidence to take cases forward against the cabinet for corruption.

In terms of cheating in the house - loads of evidence and some admissions.

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So, the other nutshell that Abhisit hinted at was that resigning would give YS an escape from the indictments with an opportunity to step back into politics in a few months.

The gamble is with her now

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The greatest sticking point is that Thaksin will never relinquish power by allowing his caretaker cabinet and caretaker PM to step aside.

The good of the country and the people mean nothing to that man.

There will never be any meaningful reforms, particularly to electoral law, if it is left up to politicians, they have to many vested interests.

The greatest sticking point is that the opposition party had years to reform and did bugger all and NOW we have Abhisit calling for an self installed 'management team', despite the fine words.

All these years and still the Thais have learned not a jot about how democracy functions and are too dumb/self interested to ever will.

Most of the massive cheating and corruption lies with the incumbent administration.

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At the end of the day it won't matter if Yingluck is judicially removed from her position. Voters are all too familiar with the pattern, vote their PM in, judicial coup removes them...They might win the battle but they can't win the war against democracy, another candidate will step up to take her place, and will be voted into power by the electorate.

Just to remind you the 1000, time SHE was not voted in by the electorate. The P.M. removed herself, the PTP self destructed-----you are a complete wind up. My post is fact--unlike your fiction posts.

The PTP is still going as a political party , The PM dissolved parliament. Your post is not fact. The Electorate vote for MPs of their favoured party. If that political party wins enough seats the get the chance to form a government. All the MPs that are voted in or get in on the party list then vote for the person who they want as PM. It follows that the party with a majority of seats will get their choice of PM. The Party has already chosen who would be PM if the have the requisite amount of seats to win that vote and this choice is well known by the supporters of that particular party.

Ergo, by voting for their representative of a political party, they are endorsing that parties choice for PM i.e that portion of the electorate are "voting" for their PM.

It's not rocket science, or fiction.

You red boys claim to believe in democracy and votes but when push comes to shove a woman selected by her brother to head up her brother's political toy party to run a country does not follow any internationally recognised firm of democracy.

She is there because she is Thaksin's sister

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PTP is Thaksin's party! Plenty of other countries use the party list system.

For their PM?

I don't think so

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So we will boicot the election, and if you not agree we will boicot the elections...

Thailand need an election. And a majority government formed from that election.

There is no legal basis for a neutral government. And good luck finding anyone neutral. Until the traditionalist nationalists can accept that they are a minority in Thailand as of the last 20 years, I dont see any way out of this that does not end in political chaos. The Democrats "solution" is not one, its just a promise to block the july election and plunging Thailand into recession. If after half a year of owning the media spotlight bashing the PT government for various schemes and "corruption", they still can not win a national election, that says something about how far from mass appeal the democrats really is.

What Thailand needs is a government that is free from corruption and external influences coupled with an armed forces that keeps out of politics and a police force that both upholds the law and keeps out of politics.

What it will waste countless decades and innumerable lives on will be getting there the hard way

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At the end of the day it won't matter if Yingluck is judicially removed from her position. Voters are all too familiar with the pattern, vote their PM in, judicial coup removes them...They might win the battle but they can't win the war against democracy, another candidate will step up to take her place, and will be voted into power by the electorate.

Just to remind you the 1000, time SHE was not voted in by the electorate. The P.M. removed herself, the PTP self destructed-----you are a complete wind up. My post is fact--unlike your fiction posts.

The PTP is still going as a political party , The PM dissolved parliament. Your post is not fact. The Electorate vote for MPs of their favoured party. If that political party wins enough seats the get the chance to form a government. All the MPs that are voted in or get in on the party list then vote for the person who they want as PM. It follows that the party with a majority of seats will get their choice of PM. The Party has already chosen who would be PM if the have the requisite amount of seats to win that vote and this choice is well known by the supporters of that particular party.

Ergo, by voting for their representative of a political party, they are endorsing that parties choice for PM i.e that portion of the electorate are "voting" for their PM.

It's not rocket science, or fiction.

You red boys claim to believe in democracy and votes but when push comes to shove a woman selected by her brother to head up her brother's political toy party to run a country does not follow any internationally recognised firm of democracy.

She is there because she is Thaksin's sister

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No wonder Mark said he would not run for Pm or be party leader if his plan was accepted. He knew no one would accept such an unconstitutional plan like this. How can he even call himself a democrat. Shame on him.

Putting out a proposal as opposed to sitting, vacuously in Chiang Mai takes courage.

They have a strawman to build upon (although you might think that's something out of Alice)

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I see the red mist brigade thinks that you should stop protesting if nothing changes. Not really that smart.

The same people have no idea what Abhisit's proposals are but demean and criticise them. Not really that smart.

The Dems have been constantly attacked and injured with at least one dead and have asked for free and fair elections to which PTP has not responded. The red mist brigade thinks that elections with violence are acceptable. Not that smart.

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The sooner the police in this country are cured of their ills, the better

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Sounds like an ultimatum from a 6 year old boy. just when you thought the democrats couldn't get any more childish, they come out with this.

Sounds like logic laced with principles

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As there are 5 of the Shinawatra clan in top positions, there is plenty of choice.

That would keep Suthep in Bangkok

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At the end of the day it won't matter if Yingluck is judicially removed from her position. Voters are all too familiar with the pattern, vote their PM in, judicial coup removes them...They might win the battle but they can't win the war against democracy, another candidate will step up to take her place, and will be voted into power by the electorate.

Just to remind you the 1000, time SHE was not voted in by the electorate. The P.M. removed herself, the PTP self destructed-----you are a complete wind up. My post is fact--unlike your fiction posts.

You can lead a horse to water.. But you can't make him think

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Abhisit is the only politician attempting to do something positive.

PTP look more and more like a bunch of kleptomaniacal chimpanzees by the minute

He manages to catch the opposition with their pants down before they even realise their collective thingamajigs have been exposed

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Elections are a positive thing. He's trying to block them (ok, delay them for an indefinite period), which is a negative thing.

I don't get your pants down reference, it's just wishful thinking, he's a bit dozy to me. Most likely a lawyer has been examining the EC's plans and he's been advised to buy some time to keep his MPs in the Democrat party.

If he was running for elections, he'd be planning his campaign now, and selecting his candidates for each seat, not stalling.

You don't begin an election campaign with a "well perhaps I won't be running unless you agree to these secret conditions I won't say".

Say we're looking at early June registrations for July elections, MP's need to resign from the Democrat party and jump ship to one of the other yellow opposition parties NOW, to qualify under the 30 day limit. Do not let this idiot drag you down Yellow MPs.

Get into other party lists, and win those easy seats in the south and represent your constiuents. You can see Abhisit is finished and he's admitting it here, there will be no new Democrat leader because he will not resign quickly enough to permit one, so you will be doomed if you stay in the Democrat party.

Abhisit's plans are probably not for wider consumption for a number of good reasons. One of them may be that in line with him exiting the leadership that the Shinawatra clan follow suit.

However if you view this a subterfuge then that's really your call

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She's standing, she's already planning her election campaign, potential candidates are already polishing their CVs, and the red protest rallys are already more like "get out the vote and win those elections" rallies.

Him, he's not standing. Whether his party stands or not? Well Suthep has set his latest "final" march for 14th May. So Abhisit will probably be stalling till 20th May (he spends about a week to make any decision). Then announce his party won't be standing at elections.

Do you think it's like lemmings? That somehow he will throw himself off a cliff and she will follow? Why?

Polishing their CVs?

Is that a euphemism for removing the criminal charges?

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Abhisit is the only politician attempting to do something positive.

PTP look more and more like a bunch of kleptomaniacal chimpanzees by the minute

He manages to catch the opposition with their pants down before they even realise their collective thingamajigs have been exposed

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Elections are a positive thing. He's trying to block them (ok, delay them for an indefinite period), which is a negative thing.

I don't get your pants down reference, it's just wishful thinking, he's a bit dozy to me. Most likely a lawyer has been examining the EC's plans and he's been advised to buy some time to keep his MPs in the Democrat party.

If he was running for elections, he'd be planning his campaign now, and selecting his candidates for each seat, not stalling.

You don't begin an election campaign with a "well perhaps I won't be running unless you agree to these secret conditions I won't say".

Say we're looking at early June registrations for July elections, MP's need to resign from the Democrat party and jump ship to one of the other yellow opposition parties NOW, to qualify under the 30 day limit. Do not let this idiot drag you down Yellow MPs.

Get into other party lists, and win those easy seats in the south and represent your constiuents. You can see Abhisit is finished and he's admitting it here, there will be no new Democrat leader because he will not resign quickly enough to permit one, so you will be doomed if you stay in the Democrat party.

Abhisit's plans are probably not for wider consumption for a number of good reasons. One of them may be that in line with him exiting the leadership that the Shinawatra clan follow suit.

However if you view this a subterfuge then that's really your call

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Abhisit is the only politician attempting to do something positive.

PTP look more and more like a bunch of kleptomaniacal chimpanzees by the minute

He manages to catch the opposition with their pants down before they even realise their collective thingamajigs have been exposed

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The driver will have less punishment than if he sold unripe durians

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"It's perfectly reasonable, it's not illegal,"

So now what? court official publicly saying this stuff, you cant say it's illegal for one person, but when I do it it's ok.

Errummm,,, Ok miss Yingluck case dismissed, advance too go collect 200 baht and Ooop's my bad.

What is illegal about writing a letter of recommendation for someone?

In case you haven't notice Yingluck's case does not include writing a letter of recommendation, it involves "her" removing a public official to make room to install a relative as Chief of Police, if you can't see the difference you really shouldn't make commentaries.

Ye'p your right, it's NOT illegal to write a letter of recommendation,

What I was commenting on was the official said installing a family member or a person you know and or worked with before is perfectly reasonable and not illegal, If you can't see the difference you really shouldn't make commentaries.

The big difference is that it's like Ronnie Biggs saying that all passengers should have a train ticket

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"EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said there were 74 complaints against the election winners in 15 provinces, but since the commission could not finish deliberating the complaints with in the 30-day deadline, it decided to endorse the 15 senators first."

Yes, of course the EC has up to one year to further investigate and ask the Supreme Court's Election Division to disqualify any of the endorsed Senators. But wouldn't you think that given the current situation of an interim government, political conflicts, allegations of government lack of transparency and accountability that the EC take its investigative reponsibilities more seriously upfront. Choosing to wait later sometime within the next year to review elected Senator's backgrounds is allowing uncollaborated senators to operate freely (and perhaps irresponsibly) now. There is no necessity for the EC to grant automatic endorsements. One might perceive EC's rush to endorsements as a politically motivated act.

Ah, but what about yaowappa?

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The best Thai shandy is with Sprite, topped up with draft and the juice of half a lime

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