inutil

To all the diligent teachers. Sorry dudes.

To the people who made a life here and kinda want to continue but might be locked out? Sorry dudes. *though lets be honest, rules are somewhat guidelines in LOS).

To all the rest: who cares? ESL is a market. You have a hundred other options if youve got a bit of experience and a degree (and a white face, arent fat, look reasonably good and professional in a picture, are preferably female, and between 25-35 years old) this wont even moderately affect you. Youre still in huge demand!

If you sit outside those requirements, you have fewer options, but its like 10-90 instead of 100. If ESL is dead in Thailand, then pack a bag and go find one of the THOUSANDS of jobs currently available in China for example. They arent even picky on the nationality like Korea and Japan. Plenty of recruiters out there will literally take anyone with a pulse. Just tick the immigration boxes and youre a shoe-in. And if youre IN china with a visa... jesus, the competition between schools here is fierce. Its simply a lack of supply of English teachers. They cannot get enough. One of my mates taught in the weirdest ghost city in china: Ordos. A city built in the growth boom for over 1000000 people that ended up with about 50,000. If that job exists, then you can bet your ass that theres opportunities all over the country. Just figure it out. Its not hard. The only hard part is that the visa process can take a month or two and will either necessitate a trip home, or a courier to deal with your documents for you. Have at it dudes, its not all doom and gloom!

Whats the argument about the Philippines going on? That our salary demands are way too high and Thailand can hire cheaper?

Okay.

Not like there arent a bazillion other jobs in about 30 other countries, is there?

So feel free Thailand. If you want a cheaper labor force, then be my guest. Im not going to tell you how to spend your tax dollars. Im not telling you to hire white westerners with 13 years of formal English education. That's your whole shtick. I'll be where the market decides to pay me a wage im happy with. And honestly, it doesnt really take much to make me happy (though its a little more than i got paid in Thailand). The only thing i honestly like about teaching in Thailand is that the jobs are bountiful and the age restrictions are.. less restrictive than elsewhere. It'll make a cool place to come back to in 15 or 20 years when ive got some cash, dont really need savings and am counting down the days. Beats being sat in the UK working in poundland for a giro. Right now though, not so much. Even China shows that the options are vast compared to Thailand, the pay is better, the market is emerging, the opportunities are somewhat endless and its all pretty serious to be honest. Youre actually expected to deliver genuine results.

I still prefer Korea overall though. Ill be there until the jobs dry up or Anti English Spectrum finally convince everyone that all English teachers are thieves, murderers and rapists. Then its China again. Then in my early to mid 50s, ill probably head back to Thailand for a last hurrah. Nice life this ESL lark to be honest.

PS, one of my colleagues at work is from the Philippines. Basing it on a cross sample of her, lovely people all round. Honest, brutally so (apropos of nothing: "actually, youre looking fatter!"), sharp, and great diligent teachers with a nice mix of fun and responsibility. So dont think im even remotely suggesting Thailand would be getting a worse deal for their cash!

This is not just a Thai problem, in China it's worse. An entire generation moved from bicycles to cars by greasing palms.

Let's face it, 90% of driver licenses in Asia (excluding Japan and Korea) should be revoked. But then, without the "Asian dream" of owning a car being allowed to materialize, we might see a huge jump in suicides.

I passed my driving test in Korea.

Id never driven before.

The test consisted of 12 hours of classes riding round and round an obstacle course (classes are mandatory regardless of how quickly you figure it all out).

Then i had to drive 2 km on a dual carriageway, and then 1km up a back road with no traffic. This was the exact same route id spent the next ten hours of mandatory lessons running up and down.

I almost failed the test.

But only because i forgot to switch off the hazard warning lights from the dude who took it before me. After that, zero issues.

I surmise therefore that you should not be including Korea in your list of safe drivers.

After i completed the test, the obstacle course pass rate was actually LOWERED to help people that routinely failed it, to pass.

The lovely thing is that my drivers license is completely tradeable for a UK one. It cost almost nothing, was easy as hell, and i can legally drive on UK roads for all my trouble! Brilliant!

I have a VPN in china, they work. In fact they work a damned sight better than the 'regular' internet. If i try connecting to ThaiVisa without my vpn its often a coin toss on whether its going to arbitrarily time out. Try it on my phone and no chance! Switch on the VPN and even despite the massive cut in speed (can be around 1/10th the advertised speed from my Chinese ISP), its still better for all round surfing. Theyre WELL worth the cash if you live here. In thailand, im sure youre fine. But if you have a vpn, youre probably doing a bit better

hang on, are you arguing that songs and rhythm work for elementary and kindy? I dont think anyone at all will argue with you on that point.

Are you saying this can be applied to M1-M6 though? Id love to see those lessons every week. Sure, you might get them on a one-shot just for the novelty factor. But after two weeks of jazz hands and throwing every ounce of energy into these activities, you might find youre struggling to hit those dizzying heights of motivation you're used to.

wow64, since there are many mistakes in your post, I wouldn't criticize others on their ability.

Secondly your argument falls flat since teaching EFL in Thailand isn't related to any subject most people would be teaching in their native countries.

Just like all careers everyone has to start somewhere. Being dedicated and effective do not relate direclty to qualifications.

Many of the issues with student progress has little to do with the teachers and more to do with the system.

Do you really think that children are going to be fluent in a foreign language studying 3-4 hours a week in classes of 50+?

A teacher is usually only as effective as the curriculum they are forced to teach. Since most directors/ principals know nothing of how students learn languages or the most effective ways to teach a foreign language the programs are designed to fail.

Even the greatest teacher in the world still has limited sucess in most Thai institutions.

Haha am I a teacher.. Never claimed to be.. I agree I am the last person in the world to teach ESL and so are the majority of teachers here.

So you were never a teacher and woke up in thailand and decided to teach.. Good for you champ... God help the students. This is the whole reason why none of your students have learnt anything. This is not a shot at you its just the students parents pay good money for an education.. Back in your home country if you paid for you kid to learn thai and Joe Thai showed up with no previous teaching experience.. Would you be happy?

Sent from my c64

Troll thee not!

So im to infer from that youd prefer to drop the matter?

It is a funny feeling. I know there are some Thai people here on TV, but I thought the majority is Farangs.

Yet somehow I see almost all members wearing same-same colours - RED or YELLOW.

Well, I have news for you all - There will never be Democracy in Thailand!

Let me repeat: - There will never be Democracy in Thailand!

And for those deaf or blind: - There will never be Democracy in Thailand!

You may continue your arguing. Have fun. But stop talking about things non-existent. NO conciliation! NO Democracy!

We might get some kind of "normality" back. But that is all.

Simple question: Why not?

And who on earth is saying THAT except you?

No one, except perhaps people aggrieved at the vagaries of a first past the post system (and that their party was crushed), will insist on the ludicrous bar of 50.1% of ALL eligible voters being a requirement to claim a mandate.

When people use the term majority of thai voters, theyre not using it unreasonably. Theyre using it exactly how its been used in every parliamentary democratic system since representative democracy existed. It is those trying to alter the meaning of 'majority' to infer an absolute majority of voters (rather than seats in parliament) who are misusing the conventional understanding of the term to further their own ends.

So here, let me be middle ground. I agree to never again mean an absolute majority of Thai voters voted for PTP if you agree that an overwhelming parliamentary majority of votes legitimised her claims of a mandate to govern.

Peace at last! peace at last!

You keep agreeing with me and then repeating exactly what you said as if it has any bearing on anything. Are you trolling me?

Then if you understand this as you claim, youre making an arbitrary semantic point that all the grown ups can ignore. This isnt a direct democracy. We cant just suddenly decide that majority has to infer 50.1% of the entire possible voting public. Thats not how the term is used. It is used in the first instance to refer to the candidate with the most votes in their designated region. This is First Past the Post. You have a majority of votes when youre the person with the most votes.

This is important to note because its from this (Thailand isnt STV after all), we receive the discrepancy between votes as a % in the population as a whole versus votes as a % in parliament. Thus, one party will have 4x% of eligible voters (who turned up and cast their vote - which realistically brings it down to around the mid-high 30s of TOTAL eligible voters), BUT because we live in a REPRESENTATIVE democracy this means they have 5x%+ of seats in a parliament.

This means they have an absolute majority in parliament. And this is the figure that matters because it means that legislation can be passed. Without this majority nothing would be done, or overwhelming power would be in the hands of minority and fringe parties working in coalition with the main party of government. Swings and roundabouts. Some people want this, some dont. But its going to take a referendum (or a coup) to bring it about.

Now, if a party has not only the numbers required in parliament for an absolute majority, but a SIGNIFICANT number to spare on top of this, then it is argued that they have a MANDATE to govern. This means that the people themselves are calling for a change in direction and overwhelmingly have returned enough people to the house to make sure that legislation is passed without any interruption.

Now lets see: absolute majority in parliament? Check

Overwhelming majority in parliament? Check.

Thats pretty conclusive by every check in representative democracy. They not only had a MAJORITY (in parliament), they had an overwhelming majority and thus a mandate to govern. Hope this helps.

Sumtinwong a landslide is a landslide and the two biggest in thai history were both by first thaksin and the second by yinglucknd that's a fact!

Like it or not it's just that simple and another dose will be handed out at the next election.

Facxt: less than 50% is not a majority, like it or not. So the majority of the Thais did not vote for the Shinawatra dictatorship, fact.

Fact: You dont understand the difference between direct democracy and representative democracy, fact. You should probably go take a politics course.

Karl popper wants a word with you. Something about 'falsification,' he said.

Then maybe theres a common ground to be found after all. You dont have to agree,I would hope that as someone with a clear love and passion for the country that all the faults do not lie in the hands of one man, and that there are bigger issues and problems (longstanding) facing Thailand.

However on your case in point, can i remind you that as a party with not only a majority in parliament as well as the political nuos to bring on board remnants of the old TRT party to consolidate her power, there was absolutely no obligation at all for PTP to suppose that they had no mandate to enact legislation. They won an outright majority in the elections, and with the support of smaller parties absolutely commanded the lower house. Would Reagan in 85 or Thatcher in 82 have been castigated for pushing through their legislative programs too with such a mandate? Would they have been told to calm it down and compromise with the opposition? Of course not. Its a mandate. Indeed its due to the mandate that the house of lords rescinded its veto power in the UK to the house of commons on acts of parliament and finally became the second chamber.

Blair is a pragmatist. I dont hate him. I like him. But he was also very quick to trample on the old hard left of his own party. If they wanted power, they had to accept the market. The party had elected him overwhlemingly as its leader and clause 4 was a barrier to their electoral success so it was absolutely written out of the history of the 'new labour' party. He wasnt entirely keen on compromising with the minority. Blair means the centerist majority ultimately (the old consensus). That was his (incredibly successful) political strategy. Those on the hard left and right be damned. Rightly so! But dont take this for some kind of adoration for JS Mill and the tyranny of the majority. It isnt. Its ideological centerism. Its the free market with an alleged social conscience. Its not a big tent of dispirate groups. Its why power in the blair years became ever more centralised in the office of PM and the collective responsibility of cabinet was routinely undermined. In Blair the British power in the parliamentary system (executive power) moved from the cabinet (of which the PM was mostly the figurehead - and the driving force, but not the decider a la bush), into the office of the prime minster. His appearance at cabinet meetings was sporadic, and often meetings would be completely dominated by decisions already made in the PM office. These were huge changes to the executive that linger on today. So not exactly the best person to speak of listening to all voices if im honest.

Back to the point though, crushing electoral victories are important bell-weathers of political change and should be respected. Calls for compromise in those circumstances (or worse yet, protesting that they should dare enact legislation and vote for it) are ridiculous and show a poor understanding of one of the fundamental and guiding principals of democracy: namely the mandate. Were thatcher to have accepted your claims, then her and Michael Foot would have spent the afternoons discussing policy and the way forward for the good of all people. Now thatcher and Michael Foot, (or Raegan/Dukakis), working together to create policy... theyd still be there to this day.

That being said, the way PTP TRIED to pass the amnesty was foolish (and possibly unconstitutuonal, but thats what the court is for after all - to interpret legilsation and make sense of the unworkeable pigs ear that parliament often sends it). They should have tried to pass it in a normal session of parliament. If the thai people didnt like it they could have simply told their MP that theyd be deselected or theyd vote against them in the future. Such is the nature of a representative democratic process. This isnt a party list (well, accept those on the er, party list - part PR and all that). MPs should be accountable to their constituents at all times, and not just once every four years (see the numbers of democrat senators/representatives who refuse to vote against pro-second amendment legislation for an example) and if they currently arent (and im no Thai legal specialist) then this would be a positive reform to make in the future.

So if you do want to talk about a way forward and blow less hot air, im obviously all ears. That being said, you and i wont solve the problems of Thailand even if anyone was listening. But your interjections do more often than not alienate the people you pretend youre trying to 'win over' and i would hope youd have the foresight to realise the harm youre doing to your position by the manner in which you deliver your message. Then again, im a genuine Blairite, so i do live in a fascist center ground a bit.

And genuinely, i hope you live in bureaucratic times.

and thats why you wont get what you want im afraid. Youre all too pigheaded to understand that reconciliation comes from shared sacrifice like every other successful peace agreement in the world. Hopefully, if the General is the hero you all portray him to be, you wont be too sad when he does what has to be done for the sake of his country.

I dont want to sound like Jeremy Clarkson here, but why dont the police just prosecute traffic violations? Theyd be up to their eye balls in funding. Pull over the occasional bus, test its brakes, bish bosh, cash! Sit in a lay by with a speed gun. Bish bosh! cash! Patrol an accident black spot for idiots overtaking on blind corners, bish bosh! cash! its literally money for old rope! Since traffic violations are almost routine, its not exactly a waste of resources. And hell, it might even save a life now and again! Why on earth do they only turn out at the end of the month and sit at a busy intersection looking for people on mopeds without helmets when the money could be rolling in every damn day! Whats the barrier here? They hate free money? They dont want to burden people?

Also, on topic and less ranty, but please for the love of god, if you want to cut down on traffic and accidents, just make a proper driving test and then prosecute people without the correct documentation. Its not like there arent 50 or so countries with perfectly functioning traffic laws and policing to learn from.

disgusting possibly, but thats what the report post button is for

and now that the army is in charge all the problems will be solved and Thailand will be number one in the world for education!

Get a grip! Theres far more going on here than Thaksin. In fact thaksin is the least of the issues here.

Heres five things right off the top of my head (from a whole TWO MONTHS of teaching in Thailand) that illustrate some of their problems faced by the country. Maybe someone like Scott, with even more knowledge of this, can also add in his tuppence on the matter.

1. The directors running schools as their personal fiefdoms.

2. Very low salaries for all education staff INCLUDING department heads and even the higher ups.

3. Low investment in education forcing INCREDIBLY poor parents into also having to contribute to their childrens (state mandatory) education through textbooks, meals, and clothing.

4. Poor maintenance, ridiculous class sizes and awful resources.

5. Stupid band aid fixes to problems in teacher training, education, and the syllabus, as well as low expectations of value, and parents treating education as a babysitting club due to chronic issues like low social mobility, low paying graduate work and thus a genuine feeling that education is a waste of their time and money.

Bonus number 6: too many people wanting their cut, whether red or yellow.

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

Can it be that it was all so simple then?

There was chatter on here about people getting talking points from Robert Amsterdam before. Not sure that was true but I can usually spot the influence of Tony Cartalucci. Anyway, you are entitled to your point of view. Others have spent considerable time reading about Thai history and talking to people on both sides, attempting to figure out what's really going on, trying to avoid giving in to easy assumptions and prejudices. Once you've done that it's much harder to see things in the black & white, manichean way that you do. Anyway, I can't speak for others, but I'm not bitter. Just concerned. And if I was able, I'd spell out my concerns and provide precedents from Thai history. However, I've just seen Craig's post and as there's a high chance this would contravene Thaivisa's understandable policy on political comments atm, I'm unable to do so.

Maybe in a few years time or hopefully much sooner, we'll be able to discuss this openly again and decide whether the optimists had it right. I actually hope they do because the alternative isn't pretty. Also I've just noticed that one of the people who has been silently reading* in Bangkok in the last few days is Somchai Neelapaijit's daughter. Interesting woman. She's got every reason to hate Thaksin given the tragic death of her father, and she probably does. Yet she's been able to put that hatred to one side and stand up for the principles she believes in. That's courage. That's conviction. This in itself is an example of things being more complicated than many seem to believe.

*There are some people silently reading books in Bangkok at present, standing near each other, but not together, just silently reading books. I would normally post a picture of Somchai's daughter reading, widely shared on Twitter/FB etc but, as above, erring on the side of caution.

And rest assured those people reading the books make up a 25% minority that DON'T support the coup ergo DON'T support reconciliation.

They will be left behind.

We are living in a state that has banned any talk that can be twisted to be against the Junta and it's coup.

The survey that said 75% of the people supported the Coup must be true and as you say that the people who said that they did support the coup are against reconciliation then that must be true as well. there is only one truth under the Military Junta.

That survey was carried out BEFORE the coup was underway. At that point it was martial law and many red supporters would have been quietly optimistic that since the caretaker government was still in place, the enactment of martial law would have finally led to free, fair and above all, secure elections.

As for me personally, its been a week and a half and no ones been shot (to my knowledge - media blackout et al). So naturally my position as a pro-democrat is softening. Theres been some positive sounds thus far in a few places. Some i genuinely detest as well. But the upshot is that if it continues as such, the general will be regarded as a hero. If it does take a turn for the worse and the guns turn on predominantly one section of society (and a section that has a genuine right to feel aggrieved at the changes by the way) then my tune (as will the tune of most moderate red supporters) will likely change. The jury (by which i mean me in this instance) is still out of course.

of course it is. :/

Tablets, love them or hate them meant one thing: the kids could keep up with the learning at ther own pace... IF used in conjunction with a textbook and core curriculum. Used on their own and they seem redundant in truth. They should supplement the core curriculum a la something like rosetta stone (which i honestly believe is a great program) a tablet would be phenomenally useful. But replacing the textbook with a tablet really just means youre trying to cut costs on textbooks through (no doubt) pirating software. Again, the problem here might be that people want low taxes and awesome education and are often astonished when the two dont really mix. A side point perhaps. But if you arent paying for the nuts and bolts of education and investing in your kids' future like Japan and Korea do, (or paying for it through profits on state controlled industries a la china) then you shouldnt really be amazed that people look for wonder solutions and try to find shortcuts to fund them.

So tablets should be a good thing. But arent, because theyre attempting to be an EVEN CHEAPER solution to problems in funding rather than an investment in the future. Little wonder that this backfired with shoddy products, poor forethought and an endless money sink. Sort of good intentions perhaps: save money, pull up the weaker students through independent learning etc. but the wrong fix.

Which brings me to the next wonder solution: The smart classroom! Only er, in every iteration of the smart classroom ive seen (in both Korea and China) is just a return to a passive style of lecturing. The teacher stands at the front of the class and delivers a powerpoint. Sure, in some subjects it brings the ideas to life if used appropriately, but it quickly becomes formulaic and a crutch for the teacher, while the students quickly tire of yet another powerpoint. The only real use they seem to get out of it is lunchtime when they can watch music videos on youku/youtube or play games. Its just passive learning at its core. At least in Japan they dont screw around with this stuff and actually spend time making sure their teachers are fit to be in a classroom and teach their subject even if it follows the whole rote-repeat model. I dunno. Its a wonder-drug. Again, it has its benefits, and in the hands of an astute teacher it can be a wonderful means to switch the students on and have them pay attention as they really grasp how a system functions or see how a dialogue plays out in the real world, but its very rarely used in that way. In fact, more often than not it functions as a glorified tape-recorder: Teacher puts in the accompanying 'interactive' CD to the textbook. Hits play. Runs through the motions. Job done!

I dunno, i dont mean to be a negative nancy, but these things are supposed to supplement and enhance the nuts and bolts of a core curriculum. You get the details mashed out on that, and technology can bring to life the often threadbare and maybe outdated ideas of the textbook (or enhance the learning point), but almost no one uses them like this. They use them exactly how theyd have used the accompanying tape or CD ten or twenty years ago: press play when the teachers edition of the textbook says to press play. Have the students sit around bored out of their minds. Maybe even make a powerpoint now and again. And have the students sit around bored out of their minds. Im not saying its terrible as an idea, im just saying that maybe chucking money at the next big innovation in the classroom in the hope that suddenly kids will find it invigorating is massively patronising and lacking in any idea of WHAT kids actually want. Hey! they like computers! theyre always on those whatchamajiggers playing their crazy whatchamacllits! lets give them that, but teach them science at the same time! test scores will go through the roof! QED! Its like games marketed as 'educational'. No kid wants to play those stupid games (but give them civilisation 5!!!...). Its a band aid solution to chronic under-funding in education. The heart is in the right place at the end of the day. No one in education genuinely wants to screw a kid over to line their own pockets. But they dont half come up with some crack brained ideas to avoid facing the genuine problem thats staring them in the face: if you want quality education, you have to pay for it. Technology wont cover up the holes caused by under-funding.

PS Teachers who have embraced tech and use it to bring to life their subject material, im sorry to be down on it. Youre genuinely awesome and i wish there were more teachers like you in the world! Its BRILLIANT to enhance the core subject. But i just cant see it replacing the textbook in the hands of a skilled and professional teacher. Id love to be proved wrong though