TTom911

I was planning to buy a condo and stay for 3-6 months using

Visa runs so this will affect me.

How long can I stay under the new visa rules?

all explained here... The law did not change, it is just applied now... means...

1. NO VISA RUNS - get a tourist visa in your country which allows you to stay 60 days and which you can extend for another 30 days at immigration in Thailand (means, max 90 days). Be able to show a return ticket when you come, make things smoother

2. if you want to immediately add another 60/90 days immediately after the first 90 days then you are at risk of being refused if immigration senses you might be a "visa runner". You must be prepared to make clear that you are NOT a visa runner (have return ticket, have funds, have a job/family outside Thailand, whatever makes your case). If you only stay 3 months in a row, then back home for the next three months and come here again after a "decent gap" since your last 60/90 days (in particular if you show again a return ticket) that should keep you safe.

All NO problem for what you describe as long as you avoid being seen as a "visa runner" or being seen as staying in Thailand long term (> 6 months in a year) under a "tourist banner". 1 and 2 above will avoid making that impression and should keep you safe and well here.

Property is = to demand and supply. Too many buildings coming up means increase in prices is = bubble

FORTUNATELY the market as a whole will not allow some stubborn property owners to succeed by demanding higher rent if the supply for the same type of property increases...

UNFORTUNATELY, if a whole global league of "big shots" in the City, at Wall Street and related places, in collusion with governments (partly knowingly, partly (hopefully...) unknowingly) gang up and play the market out of pure greed, then we are all out of luck, then anything can happen, as we all witnessed.

MORE UNFORTUNATELY, the vast majority of these "players" got all away with it, just a few million richer, each... Compared to that level of corrupt criminality (that's how I call if markets are played with by special interest groups out of pure greed), compared to that Thailand looks very "cute and civilised"... We (the western "developed" economies) lost "a little bit of face" and credibility to be able to criticise all what is otherwise in fact wrong in Thailand (sorry for straying off topic, or maybe not!?)

Agree with above "PattayaPhom", but also for other cities.

My landlady has had a couple of properties vacant for aout 4 months. cosequently she is about 120,000 out of pocket. She sent me a letter the other day informing me that as of September my rent would increase by approximately 60%

In answer to the OP's question, I think that new house sales will be hardly be affected, but wental properties certainy will, and it will get worse. as short term renters vacate.

with a 60% increase I imagine she'll be more out of pocket for months and years ahead - hopefully.

Yes she will as I have already made plans to move, but naturally will not tell her till the last possible moment. Having paid 2.5 million baht over the last 22 years, I thought she would have been more than happy with a stable tennant. However, TIT

TIT, as you say... Seems your landlord is sitting on a stag of cash and hence he / she will not budge.

I saw that in many other cases, not only property related. Thai people with some cash in the pocket would happily loose money if they just can stick stubbornly to their "I want it my way or no way" mentality...

In terms of business sense completely ridiculous, but........TIT....... will not change in a million years....Let them be happy with that...

it will affect a certain market. Those mid-level quality, "me too" developments with little distinguishing factors, I would think also many of these shop-houses being built everywhere in Phuket, all these areas are oversupplied, I believe.

If the owner of such properties sits on a mortgage he/she hopes to pay via rental income... "good luck"... many of those owners will have to sell and have to discount heavily... as said, the question is how big this segment of the market is... the bigger this "troubled segment", the more it will affect the property prices fore these types of properties...

Won't have any impact – those buying property and not the same people as doing visa runs...

Very simplistic view. Many of those Thai who finance their property via a mortgage in a hope to pay the mortgage via rental income WILL be in trouble and there will be emergency sales, no doubt... and that WILL drive the price down.

The deciding factor is "how many of such properties are bank financed". The bigger that portion of the market is the more the market will be affected and the price for those properties will go down... Those who don't sit on a mortgage will feel the pain still, but they might "sit and wait"...

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Agree with above "PattayaPhom", but also for other cities.

My landlady has had a couple of properties vacant for aout 4 months. cosequently she is about 120,000 out of pocket. She sent me a letter the other day informing me that as of September my rent would increase by approximately 60%

In answer to the OP's question, I think that new house sales will be hardly be affected, but wental properties certainy will, and it will get worse. as short term renters vacate.

What a stupid woman. Now you'll move and she'll be out much more.

"Thai logic"... let's hope the market makes those "landlord morons" learn a lesson... up to the tenant if or if not to accept such stupidity...

The reason I bring this up is because here we are on the "Teaching English in Thailand" forum and I've only heard of a few people ever getting "caught" teaching English without a work permit. And this is over 18 years experience in Thailand. So let's make one point very clear: these kinds of raids and checks are extremely rare. I think it would be fair to say that they almost never happen.

So with that established, let's discuss what does happen on the rare occasion that immigration visit to school and checks everyone for the legal status.

If immigration finds teachers in the school that do not have all documentation for legal work status, they put those teachers in a room and told him to sit down and wait. They then have a private discussion with the director of the school. Perhaps negotiation is the better term. The school director is told to get together some sum of money as a fine. The director will try to negotiate and eventually a figure will be agreed upon and that money will be handed over to the immigration officer. Once the director does a bank run, the teachers are then told they are free to go.

That's it.

Now on to the myth of deportation:

In all of my time in Thailand I have never heard of anyone being deported for working as an English teacher illegally. I've heard of a few teachers being deported, but it's always associated with something else that they've done, overstayed their visas by years, broken some significant law, or managed to get a very powerful enemy.

Does anyone else have any examples of English teachers being deported in the time they've lived in Thailand? Yet we all know there are tens of thousands of teachers teaching illegally here in the kingdom. Isn't it therefore pretty obvious that teachers teaching illegally do not get deported? Or even in any real trouble?

Every few days someone posts that they want to teach English in Thailand but for some reason, like a lack of a university degree, it's unlikely they can easily get legal status. And there are always dozens of posters warning about the dangers of deportation. One of the recent threads warned of possibly being deported for teaching as a volunteer in a small rural school.

Can we all agree that this is just a myth? A law that is obviously almost never enforced in Thailand.

It still seems people, like you (OP) don't get it !?

1.THINGS HAVE CHANGED BIG TIME. "past experience" of any sort, if it is based on any "dodgy working/visa/v-run practice", is likely to be TOTALLY USLESS NOW as the rules very obviously changed... Hence, OP, your question is rather pointless and just confuses people. Everyone should look at the "now" and focus there and forget about how it was handled "yesterday". Clinging on to the "good times ( for some...) gone"indicates desperation and delusion.

2. first and foremost, "look into the mirror" and ask yourself if there is any "false pretence" regarding your "presence/activity" in Thailand. It's time for a reality check.

2.a. if "yes" (if you see "false pretence" when looking into the mirror...) then you are in trouble today. It is easy to spot (just nobody did care in the past) and there are many easy ways for immigration officers to catch you on the spot (stamps in passport, school visits, etc.) and given the pressure and discretion they have you have all the chances in the world to be "spotted" and .... No point in closing eyes, make appropriate plans based on your REAL situation and act accordingly, don't gaze into the past (see above), it will not help you.

2.b. if "no" (if factually nothing to worry) be best possible prepared to get your message across convincingly, clear and to the point (with evidence at hand) when you meet the immigration officer next time.

I think the current situation is UTTERLY clear (unfortunately clear, for some). Only not wanting to see the realities makes it look complicated....

For those affected by Thai crackdown easy solution is to move to other ASEAN countries. Malaysia for example gives 90 days free. Just make sure you get out before August 12 if your only option to get back in is a tourist visa.

Perhaps easier for a Thai girlfriend/wife to get a visa in another Asean country than for you to do so here. But will they want to stay in the Philippines or Cambodia.....not mine. I am submitting to the new regulations and will obtain correct visas from now on. It was only on bad advice that I ever clung to the Tourist Visa/border run scenario. I would wake up one morning and just say to myself....how can I get this out of the way, quickly.

The REAL ultimate implication is that if someone is not yet at retirement age and/or has no work permit it is not possible to "live" in Thailand permanently with ANY visa (as I understand it). In ANY case it is 6 months in 1 year at best, and for the remaining period of the year it always means "Good Bye Thailand". Looks to me that whoever "settled" here "unofficially" will need to look for another place... BIG change, cold shock for many, I suspect...

can we f.... hell stop rambling about "illegal visa"!!!!??? Absolutely nobody is interested in that nonsense !!!!!!

As I understand it, THE ULTIMATE POINT of all of this is, however you twist and turn it, in addition to the proper formal procedure to be followed (in many cases, requiring proper visa applications through embassies outside Thailand):

- unless you have something like a "retirement" or "elite card" visa, or a non-immigration visa with work permit (and any visa similar to that) YOU CAN NOT STAY FOR MORE THAN 6 MONTH IN A YEAR IN THAILAND, meaning, you can not "live" in Thailand !

This was always the law, did not change.

As "factually as well as formally" correct the new approach may be, my prediction is that this might cause a lot of problems for THAI (!!) people... Places may get "cleaner" now, but "cleaner" will most likely also mean less (in some places MUCH less) money in the kitty (restaurant, any entertainment, apartments & (shop)houses for rent)... And that's where people might become disenfranchised with the "let's get our country clean" approach... and of course that is what the "old gangs" are waiting for... IT WILL COST and it will be interesting to see if people will accept that flip-side to the "cleaning coin"...

so, my guess is there will be more illegal overstayers, not reporting to anybody or anything

max fee is only 20.000 baht anyway, if you overstay here one month or 20 years

Yeah, that's "the old rules"... and you are so naive to believe that they don't crack down on the overstayer's even harder than on the "border runners"... ? If they mean what they say, we WILL see also see big changes there... Maybe just try it and report back?! If you can't report immediately, no problem, then just wait until you get out of prison...

If the government sees these plans through it's sure a "good idea", if that is practically possible without serious collateral damage is to be seen...

THAT is the evil consequence of longstanding corruption: it creates and cements circumstances which make change extremely hard to th point of becoming impossible without "blood on the floor". The main evil of corruption is not so much that someone gets a little money", the REAL EVIL is that is hinders change/advance, as the corrupt want to cement the status quo in their favour...

Thailand has a very long and very painful way ahead IF it wants to change... ultimately I don't see too many people want really change... many just want for themselves what they envy others for... which keeps the old circle spinning... That's what the old guards in any corrupt country are playing on... They just sit there on their wealth with and wait... all too often time will play into their hands...

Let's see... This "visa change" thingy will be very interesting to watch and will tell a lot of how Thailand wants/can/will address the need for change...

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So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

Yes, they are sffected - some of those guys are in for a shock.

i dont think they will be affected at all;

they are NOT"visa runners" they come into Thailand stay from 1 week to 4 , spend their hard earned $$$ an leave for 4 weeks to ------

they are NOT VISA RUNNERS nor are they abusing what the visa exempt is for

What is "living here" yes they might have houses/wife's/families but they are not here full time.

I guess its a fine line an we will have to wait and see.

I can't see them stopping these guys

they are not "staying in Thailand", they are working.

Sure, assuming all the paperwork is in place (WP and visa) then they will not be affected, why would they...

But that the question was raised here indicates to me that in some (many?) cases the "paper work" is NOT in place and people just hopped in and out as it was so much easier for everyone (including the Thai companies hiring them)...

So will people who fly in regularly to Thailand and get 30 day stamps be affected by the new rules or is it only land border crosses.

Lots of oil workers, Aussie FIFOs will be affected if they are monitoring at airports.

it can only have HUGE ripple effects if they all of a sudden apply the rules... too many people for too long a time "adjusted to the old ways"... I can even imagine that getting visas at embassies might become a very time consuming exercise as they would be flooded with visa applications... all this, as clean, simple and understandable it may look at first glance, can have more serious side effects than people imagine...

Somehow to me this is emblematic for what is ahead of Thailand in the years to come, I believe... it's not gonna be easy (some might say "not possible...") to fix a system, run on dodgy practices everywhere, with a simple stroke of administration... Each attempt to fix one thing will cause upheaval somewhere... it's a tangled mess...

having seen references to the Thai immigration's plans of introducing fingerprint scanners...

...if any immigration would find out you have more than one passport, whatever passport you would choose to present, they will certainly "pick the one THEY like"... meaning, you would still NOT get into the country if any of the passport identifying you as the entering person has too many/the wrong stamps...

The number of passports don't matter at all if they can either bio-identify you or find out about your multiple passports otherwise...

I have more than one passport/nationality. Which I suppose could be useful.

that's why they consider (or even in the process of implementing) bio-id (finger print) scanners... sure some have legitly more than one passport, just make sure you are one of them... or otherwise have a very convincing explanation up your sleeve when the ever so polite immigration offices comes back and asks you "how may I address you , Sir, "Mr Bob" or Mr. Bill"...

why tight up the visa rules? it will just make more people overstay their visas..

Responding with a "then I just overstay" would be the most foolish thing you could come up with... someone is obviously determined "to change things"... and if you try to play clever and "just overstay" then they might throw the book at you that you might get a headache not to be forgotten anytime soon... if the tourist visa rules are being applied stricter you can bet that the overstayers will feel even more heat...

NO GOOD IDEA TO GO THE "OVERSTAY" ROUTE, SERIOUSLY, if you take my "just common sense" advice... !

These changes can only have very "visible" impact on some locations in Thailand... I can only imagine how many people, Thai locals AND falangs, adjusted their "way of life..." to these practices which seem to end now... a large number of people will be affected by this, farangs in the first place, but the ripples will go beyond that...

if buying cash is either not an option a "too big a leap" then buying on a loan, which she has to sign up to, may be another option. Yes, it comes at the extra cost for a loan, of course, but, if you want and things go well you can pay for the loan on a regular basis, if things go sour you have the option to pull out.

That is also a test what your girlfriend's intentions are: "just" wanting a nicer and more comfortable life with you together in a new house (which is fine, I guess and as long as the money is there, and which such arrangement would give her/you both) or is she straight after "secure assets in her own name"? If her response/behaviour points at the latter scenario then I, if I were you, would become VERY careful indeed... Not knowing your GF and not wanting to disparage anybody, but it is a well known FACT (!!) that at least some kind of Thai ladies do know EXACTLY what they want and they are VERY persuasive and often very successful in getting what they want...Don't underestimate the little cute face's determination and skills... DONT LOOSE YOU HEAD, keep speaking to people you trust to not "get wrapped up, carried away and eaten like a Christmas turkey ..."

The short version: be cool headed, smart and careful. A STEP AT A TIME is hardly ever wrong rather than jumping straight into the deep end... If she is serious then she will accept and not run away... if she does make a runner then "good for you, too", then you save the trouble getting rid of her sooner or later...

Well, having gotten not a single response to the post I guess it means there is probably not so much interest or experience on Thai Visa regarding Thail language learning... .

I looked around on the internet and spoke to a few people and (no disregard to any other excellent teachers who sure will be around) I was very much impressed by

- ThaiStyle (www.thai-style.co.uk)

which is run by a Thai/English couple and has just EXCELLENT training materials and has an equally excellent website. It's easy to see how much time and effort must have gone into producing the website, videos and worksheets.

What appealed to me in particular is that they have a network of teacher all over Thailand, which is great for me as I am traveling a lot and can have various teachers at the different locations where I stay and they all work on the same curriculum so that I don't have to stop (and they also offer teaching via Skype AND in the UK/US if anyone is shuttling between countries).

So, not being affiliated in any way with them (!!), just being a "happy customer", I think it's really worth while checking out if anyone is up for the challenge to start learning Thai...

OP

You could buy a ready made Thai company?

Take over shares and voting rights to be the boss. But the capital requirements steps and all that is already passed; so less for you to do / show. Possible? I think it is as I thought about this work around for ourselves, or set up on my wife name first and then add me in to the share holding after formation.

interesting concept... with the major caveat that I don't want to run a due diligence on an operating Thai company... where only god knows how many skeletons are in the closet...

You could have your 4 share holders set it up/ a new company- no skeletons- so submit only 500k - then take over the controlling interest.

You have trusted 4 Thais who are real partners anyway or taking a chance on lawyer provided nominees? If real partners then above suggestion should be no problem- or even just close friends be ok more than randoms.

As per what I figured so far it would probably be best to do as much "stealth piloting" as possible to minimise (never being able to totally exclude) the risk of being totally off the mark in terms of market acceptance and then use a known legal firm who can represent the "thai stakeholders". Will cost a certain amount per month for that service, which is nothing but fair, but in return has someone involved who is as neutral as it can get (certainly more neutral than any "Thai GF and her entourage..." might turn out to be...).

There are a few names (firms) appearing here in posts pretty regularly and communications with some of them was very transparent and concise which makes me reasonably confident that it would be good to work with them. Can't speak of experience yet, but the communication were trustworthy and open.

And yes, also there some "trust" is required, but that has to be accepted in business anyways. My point is only to "minimise" potential troubles, not wish-dreaming that it is possible "to prepare everything and then believe to never have issues..."

OP

You could buy a ready made Thai company?

Take over shares and voting rights to be the boss. But the capital requirements steps and all that is already passed; so less for you to do / show. Possible? I think it is as I thought about this work around for ourselves, or set up on my wife name first and then add me in to the share holding after formation.

interesting concept... with the major caveat that I don't want to run a due diligence on an operating Thai company... where only god knows how many skeletons are in the closet...

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If it's on line why not just register the company in a zero tax jurisdiction such as British virgin island, Belize or caymans etc and manage it quietly / privately here; so you don't have Thai tax or need for employees or the dodgey 49% with a bunch of Thai shareholders etc etc?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

And just work illegally you mean ? Maybe the OP wants to try and do the right thing ?

I meant if all his sales are outside of the country. Placing orders at a factory or paying a freelance Thai to ship goods to meet sales abroad does not constitute working.

If he were dealing with local sales and actually having employees in an office type environment on a pay role with himself there 9-5 telling everybody what to do - then yes I would say Thai company and work permit is definitely the way to go.

It's not exactly clear how large or scale he talking from opening post.

I spoke to a lawyer the other day about company formation. They said needed a bank book / statement showing funds equal to the capital amount ie 500k for a Thai or 2MB for foreigner.

1. yes, there would be local customers which makes a local registration mandatory (Bank book, WP, VAT, lahlalahlalah...). Otherwise I would not go anywhere near of considering to set up a Thai company...

2. yes, it is about setting up as company "cleverly" yet legally; and, because see 3, still as "trim and lean" as possible (in terms of capital/cash requirements and processes/overheads)

3. it would be a startup operation where, as with most businesses a farang would try in Thailand, it is anybody's guess if it works or not... What works elsewhere (which means, what is based on on real and hard experience/expertise made outside Thailand) may still not work in Thailand for a million of unfortunate reasons... Hence, caution is advised and "the worst case" must be, even if not the preferred, part of the business plan...