TTom911

Paper and words are cheap, as cheap as the police officers in charge are. A bunch of morons stumbling around at the crime scene along with civilians (possibly the murderer - owner of AC Bar), pretending to not know what is going on, overlooking facts like the shallow stab wounds on David's head and shoulders, letting a key witness (Sean) who has similar stab wounds on his arms and a guitar full of blood run without further investigation about the death threats he received from the AC Bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind 7Eleven counter), waterboarding and "cooking" confessions out of two Burmese tiny men, who neither would have the strength nor the body height to take out David in a fist fight, overlooking possible motives like loss of face or hate crime/crime of passion, letting the foreign friends of the victims leave on day one without proper investigation, chasing wrong leads, pushing the accused through the reenactment like string puppets, telling them where to stand, where to go, how to hit, etc... and now possibly switching DNA swabs and whatever need to be done or what evidence needs to be disposed of to mold the case around the two young patsies... What a disgusting travesty this is! I hope the whole world will finally wake up to the fact that law enforcement in Thailand along with justice is just a big brown pile of $#!te that can be bought and told what to say and do by lowlife mafiosi and influential Hi So business people.

Welcome to "The Land of Smiles"... What an UGLY face...

Police address criticisms over arrest of Myanmar suspects

the only thing that I want to hear / read from the police is that they agree an independent professional

organization checks the case.

(I don't care if it is UK police or FBI - just independant, professional and not Thai)

There are quite a few Thais that would agree with you about this investigation or any investigation by the Thai police... but they aren't going to speak out. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than transferring a few Police Generals by the PM for Thais to have any confidence in the RTP. Thais are reared up to be proud that they are Thai, but across the board they are ashamed of the RTP.

thats exactly the point and thats why everyone is totally correct to be HIGHLY suspicious. And lets not forget that these voice suspicions all arise because of the total nonsense of their own published statements. We just answer to what THEY publish. Has nothing to do with "Thai bashing".

P.S.: The best advise if it comes to Thailand I EVER received from a friend years back when I had no idea what he was talking about was:

"Dont listen to what Thai' say, SEE what they DO".

Its prudent in all cultures to always "think" and maybe not take all as the truth what people tell you. But a far as Thailand is concerned, that is still today, even more than ever and reconfirmed on an almost daily bases, the best advise I ever heard...... !!!

Does TV have any update on what happened (or not) since you (TV) posted here that lawyers would assist the suspects in an effort "to get the full picture"...???!!!

So does this mean that they weren't tested the first time around? When they tested so many Burmese? They didn't test three Burmese that worked in the bar where the deceased had been right before they were murdered??!!!?!! Why wasn't there a match the first time around??

coz it's a made-up story... stinks like hell

there needs to be clear evidence that this guy is not a scapegoat all tests should be verified by an outside trusted expert.

The problem will most likely be that the evidence has been (possibly deliberately) so much messed and tempered with (and/or not secured in the first place) that by now you probably can "photoshop" whatever "proof" you fancy based on these "results" and that the truth may never come out...

Let's see if "hard fact" evidence which actually CAN still be objectively evaluated by a third party will still be around when the time comes... I very much doubt it...

you can trust any evidence only as much as you can trust the people who collect, preserve and process the evidence. I would not trust ANY of these guys who put their hands on that!

The problem will most likely be that the evidence has been (possibly deliberately) so much messed and tempered with (and/or not secured in the first place) that by now you probably can "photoshop" whatever "proof" you fancy based on these "results" and that the truth may never come out...

Let's see if "hard fact" evidence which actually CAN still be objectively evaluated by a third party will still be around when the time comes... I very much doubt it...

This is a huge story in the UK and will be for a long time. The story of the murdered newly wed in South Africa got a one hour Panorama special devoted to it and this could easily go the same way. That would be devastating for the families who desperately need to move on, however i think this story is going to be pursued relentlessly until a believable conclusion has been reached.

The Thai authorities would be well advised to bring in foreign (UK) help to solve the case.

I think this. Idea, whilst it may have merit elsewhere, is a non starter in this case. Any outside help would depend largely on help from the local BIB.

Never mind the incompetence factor, never mind the alleged corruption and cover up factor, but LOSS of FACE would stop it dead in its tracks

My point is that the case will be pursued by the media for years until a conclusion has been reached, and that it would be in the interests of the Thais to get help since they're clearly inept. Of course you're right, and they won't accept the fact and will bumble on.

Even so, there are some very good investagative journalists in the UK who will follow this case if it is left unsolved, or if it appears a miscarriage of justice has occurred. The upshot of that could easily be years of bad publicity, loss of tourism, and worst of all, murderer(s) on the loose.

It needs more than this. If Americans were the victims, the FBI would be all over the island - and as they're 'untouchable' owing to their special relationship they would already have the perps in custody. GB doesn't have the same clout, but I hope a clandestine investigation is underway, maybe with US support. Journalists would be banned/deported/or worse as soon as they raised any alarm bells, so I don't hold out much hope that would be the way forward.

What's unique in this tragic case is the the RTP have been in the media spotlight from day 1, and their tried and tested methods of cover-up, collusion, and framing innocents has been harder to achieve - resulting in ludicrous actions and statements.

Year, try to detain or throw out journalists as a solution to "get out of the public storm"... (well, they might even be stupid enough to try that before they realise they just lost their pants in public again...)

The problem I smell there is a "lack of action" on the side of foreign governments... Behind the scene the "services" are "best friends" with far reaching ties and a a shared "dirty history" of secret detention centres and all sorts of secret service collusion. Some of our home countries happily use third countries for "their services" if they don't want to get their own hands dirty... Let's see how "active" the british government will become (or not....)

There should be a wave of resignations bin any organised country

HERE you get promoted for it.........................

Is there no-one within the RTP that has the balls to say WE JUST DON'T KNOW!

because Thailand ALWAYS has an answer, for all and everything, not matter how stupid... daily experience... usually it's just not presented so plainly in the open as this ridiculous, shameful mockery...

And let's not believe that Thai would take any notice of it... or, if they do, then "mai pen rai..."

absolutely impossible to have ANY respect for this monkey place... no more said...

I think it would be VERY foolish of anyone to to believe that they will turn a blind eye in the long run...  will merely mean "more time" to get things straight, which of course will be very welcome to those concerned. I just would not bank on it in a few weeks/months time...

never have done in almost 40 years and not going to start now .... immigration really need to wake up to the 21st Century

nobody is going to "wake up" here... "change of colour or flavours" shall suffice... and if it makes that worse in the process? ไม่เป็นไร

 

 

 

 

 

yeah, and if you rob a bank you might make even more "profit"...

 

Also "see why people do it..."?

 

The only reason for any lengthy overstay is a total mess in people heads and/or ruined finances where head in sand is seen as the only "option"...

 

In such case, bad enough, and no point in judging individuals without knowing the circumstances, but let's stop "rationalising" or sugar coating...

 

It is what it is: an individual's complete mess, whatever the reasons... 

 

 

I wasn't judging.   I have no idea what the reason was for his overstay.  You could be right he could have been unable to afford the flights and visas.   

I feel sorry for anyone who is in that situation now and is still unable to leave for whatever reason and are now facing the very real prospect of getting caught, deported and banned for 10 years (unless of they are a criminal and afraid to go and face the music back home).

 

I have no doubts there is a lot of hidden drama of messed-up life's behind these "situations" but ultimately it's only the people themselves who can and have to sort themselves out, whatever the sympathy, who else could (or should)... 

 

 

Kmacdonnell post # 1

So a guy has a long overstay - years.  If he turns up at the airport before the end of this month with a flight ticket to Singapore and a genuine application for a non b to come back to work, and the 20,000 bht fine, will they let him come back?

 

 

An acquaintance of mine just  did that very same thing  only he went back to the U.K. and is now back and happily at home here in Thailand.

Paid the 20,000 baht and that was it.

 

All much to his and I must admit his friends amazement as we all thought we would be starting out as prison visitors in his case.

 

His overstay was a twenty years overstay .. 

 

 

My god, not that it really translates exactly but I've spent approx 100,000 baht a year on flights between HK and Bangkok, visa fees and misc costs.    I haven't had to pay for hotels or food and drink as I stay with family.    If I'd paid for hotels etc the number might be closer to 250-300,000 a year.

 

So your mate 'saved' something in the region of 2 million to maybe 6 million baht by just staying here.

 

You can see why people do it.

 

yeah, and if you rob a bank you might make even more "profit"...

Also "see why people do it..."?

The only reason for any lengthy overstay is a total mess in people heads and/or ruined finances where head in sand is seen as the only "option"...

In such case, bad enough, and no point in judging individuals without knowing the circumstances, but let's stop "rationalising" or sugar coating...

It is what it is: an individual's complete mess, whatever the reasons... 

A "good" plan for Phuket would have started with the removal of the huge mega resorts that are built on national park land. An effective manager always puts the most difficult tasks at the top of his to do list.

be real, in many cases "demolition" is not a practical option (even though it of course needs to be considered and assessed on a case by case basis).

Get a fast track court in place, with good resources, to check "the big guy", confiscate assets where public resources have been misused and put the abusers in jail. During the process, assign a caretaker manager and auction off to new owners where demolition is too expensive, kills to many jobs or take too long.

And let the auction profit flow back into the community for improvements and job creation !!!

We can't turn back the clock everywhere. But this way the illegal is turned legal, a new owner gets a clean start and the money helps to develop the community.

Prove that this works in top-priority "hot spots / pilot areas" where maximum efforts are made "to get this right", learn along the way and then roll that out that concept across the island (and Thailand for that matter).

As hard/difficult as it is: if too many peoples lives will be destroyed then they will not follow the "cleaning path". And that is of course that the ex-big shots are waiting for....

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Well done...

all those restaurants on public land has been operating paying bribes to corrupt police for decades, with no respect to the nature and public environment.

And you have evidence of this do you?

For those not familiar with this location, it's to the north of the Phuket Checkpoint, about half a kilometre before the Sarasin Bridge. There is absolutely nothing in the area, until you get close to the bridge. Between the road and the beach itself is perhaps only around 50 metres or so wide. From what I've seen when I've been there, none of the restaurants were on the beach itself, instead being under pine trees. It's not an area that would attract environmentall tourists as it's just a destination for day out visitors (almost wholly Thais) using the restaurants themselves.

Shame really that they've gone, perhaps would have been better to regularise whatever agreement (verbal, written or otherwise) and made these arrangements public. If the land is owned by the Treasury Department, does that make it outside the National Park?

They were all undoubtably family owned and operated, so that's 10 sets of locals without income, I would imagine in the region of 50 or so people.

Yep...just some low key Thai businesses catering to Thai customers. Pretty low environmental impact also as they were off the primary dune. And definitely no mafia on farang action at that site. There are no swimmers or beach goers there as it is far too dangerous with the rips and sandbanks from the flow out at the channel at Sarasin. It is way off the grid as far as the average tourist goes.

This is just more workaday Thai small business people disenfranchised by the Bangkok elite. Meanwhile the illegal Bangkok owned mega resorts such as Pullman trade on with impunity.

That is the huge danger: chucking out the baby with the bath water.

Of course the majority totally agrees that things need to be cleaned up big time. The problem in this county is that the mess is so enormous and setting priorities and getting the balance right is close to impossible.

And they would have to come up with a "development plan" for those who now loose their livelihood. Just washing hands by taking an "we get it clean now" attitude without addressing the consequences is will have on local people who, kinda understandably, adjusted to this messy way of running Thai affairs, will only make people resist more and more as the "cleaning operation" progresses... Heroic operations lead all to often to the death of the patient on the operation table... I hope they understand that and have a good game plan.....

Just cannot wait for them to start on Samui. My partner used to have a very lucrative massage berth employing 6 genuine masseurs in front of a Cheong Mon resort. Although they have never owned the beach, the resort owner wife charged my partner Bht 27000 per month to be there. After she found out that my partner had done a customer deal with a neighbouring 5 star resort, the woman demanded Bht 37000 per mth. My partner just worked the month out and "pulled the plug" Now there are two diffrent operators there, both paying Bht30000 mth to someone who does not own the beach ! Also much rubbish around the site which neither of the 3 women will clean up. My partner, a uni educated lady from Suratthani, was always very particular about cleaning and tidyness. The present masseurs just don't see rubbish. Just hope that the Generals boys chase these litterers away and the resort lady finds herself Bht 60000 mth in the red.

I guess we agree: Those should be busted, BIG TIME

But, unfortunately that's what many Thai regard as "smart business", most would not even understand what we are bitching about, for them it's totally normal. And, if the circumstance would allow, they (I don't say "everyone", but almost everyone...) would do EXACTLY the same, if they could... It's just how things are done here...

Well write home about it as that certainly is what you're supposed to do. So far I see no big fish frying, only harassment of low income workers. As I've said before I do hope I'm wrong about the Junta, because if I'm right, it will lead to a very very bad situation.

I think, to date, the Mayor of Karon has been the biggest fish to go into the fry pan. It will be interesting to see just how "cooked" he gets.

If one is arrested, the next step is ensuring that both the prosecutors office, and the judiciary are clean. That is often not the case here. Here are some excerpts from international organization on the Thai judiciary. It appears to be highly compromised. How do you fix the system without addressing this?

Individual Corruption

According to the Human Rights Report 2013, the judiciary is subject to corruption. Thailand's judicial system functions at a very slow pace: Drawn-out procedures encourage the bribing of civil servants charged with overseeing regulations to speed up legal procedures, and such practices are reportedly common. Thailand´s Anti-Corruption Strategy 2010, released by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), describes the judicial system as weak and continuously manipulated by influential people, such as the Thai mafia and politicians.

The Human Rights Report 2013 notes that the government provides free legal advice to the poor; however, the aid was intermittent and of low quality. In addition, there were NGO reports of instances where legal aid lawyers forced their clients to pay extra fees directly to them. According to human rights groups, the lack of progress in several high-profile cases involving alleged police and military abuse have diminished the public's trust in the justice system. Nevertheless, less than one fifth of respondents in the Global Corruption Barometer 2013 felt that the judiciary was corrupt/extremely corrupt.

Business Corruption

According to the Investment Climate Statement 2013, Thailand's judiciary enforces property and contract rights effectively. However, it should be mentioned that the legal process is very lengthy. Similarly, the Index of Economic Freedom 2014 notes that the judiciary generally enforces property and contractual rights but that it is vulnerable to political interference. On a positive note, enforcement of bankruptcy judgments has been eased and streamlined since 2004.

Litigants sometimes influence judgments through extra-legal means, including bribes. The Human Rights Report 2013states that even though the judiciary is generally considered independent, it is subject to corruption and outside influences. Companies need to be aware that decisions by foreign courts are not recognised in Thai courts and thus cannot be enforced. Therefore, disputes that need to be settled in court and recognised in Thailand have to go through the Thai justice system.

Political Corruption

Corruption and self-interested behaviour is found throughout the political and judicial systems. This is supported by theHuman Rights Report 2012, which reports that the judicial system lacks progress in tackling high-profile cases, such as police and military abuse of power. In addition, the Transformation Index 2012 also states that the judiciary is corrupt to a certain extent. On a positive note, according to Freedom in the World 2013, with the new Constitution of 2007, judicial independence is guaranteed and the independent Constitutional Court has been re-established.

Frequency

The World Bank & IFC: Doing Business 2014:

- On average, enforcing a commercial contract involves 36 procedures and takes 440 days at a cost of 15% of the contract value.

World Economic Forum: The Global Competitiveness Report 2013-2014:

- Business executives give the independence of the judiciary from influences of members of government, citizens or companies a score of 3.8 on a 7-point scale (1 being 'heavily influenced' and 7 'entirely independent').

- Business executives give the efficiency of the legal framework for private companies to settle disputes and challenge the legality of government actions and/or regulations a score of 3.9 and 3.5, respectively, on a 7-point scale (1 being 'extremely inefficient' and 7 'highly efficient').

Transparency International: Global Corruption Barometer 2013:

- Citizens perceive the judicial system to be somewhat corrupt, giving it a score of 2.5 on a 5-point scale (1 being 'not at all corrupt' and 5 'extremely corrupt').

- 18% of households surveyed believe the judiciary is either 'corrupt' or 'extremely corrupt'.

Well, that summarizes what we/Thailand are up against.... a task ("cleansing the system") of absolutely gigantic proportions which would require a hero of Mandela stature to succeed... It get's scary when you start thinking of the full picture... This is not going to be a walk in the park... GOOD LUCK (honestly)...

as you mention getting the visa in Singapore: Did I not read many times here on TV that Singapore would be a place to better avoid for for certain visa applications as they reject much more often than other embassies?  If so, then Singapore might be a particularly bad idea to go to for someone with an overstay history? Or am I wrong?

if the generals don't get this balance between the big shot and the small fish right there will be blood on the street, sooner or later, no question... to get that balance right will be the big challenge for them... let's hope they intend and succeed in doing that...