sting01

Did they charge 60K for a garbage like that :

9 pages (in php, but if in html it will change nothing, there is no DB work).

The right column is 40 px far of the main body.

.....

Price for that is 7 000/10 000 assuming it can be done in a couple of day.

That is the pure and perfect exemple why I decided to move to outsoourced work.

Charging 60 000 bht for that is the same at money stolen.

Sting, I don't mean I want my starter page to be set at a certain website, I mean I have two Mozilla Browser settings on my computer.

One is in my name and is personalised, with all the bookmarks in it that I have made over the months.

And the other is just a plain google page with no bookmarks at all, the standard browser page you get when you first download it.

Sometimes the computer seems to forget this and gives me a choice as to what I want set at 'default' so I choose my name and my browser comes up as I want it for a while. Then it goes again and resets back to the old browser and I lose my bookmarks until one day the box just appears again and I can set it properly.

Its an old crappy computer and has a bit of a mind of its own.

How do I get that box up so I can set the default as my name again?

Well, please browse back andread what you wrote, then assuming I am not a native speaker, nor I intimatly know you or your computer, you will easily understand that I asnwered the most accuratly I could to a very general and badly formulated question

In the case of the very precise and rightly formalated question, I am affraid to be totaly useless. I use Mozilla (FF or Opera) only to test the cross browser compatibility of the javascript I create, or if the design still is the one asked to me (IE, FF and Opera have 3 different rendering engines, so a wrong style="position: " will render okie in IE (because a bug) but will be ugly in FF.

Appart that I do not use FF

1) buy a new computer

Once again I started my Mozilla up and it opened to a default Mozilla page rather than my usual personalised one with all me bookmarks etc.

How to switch it back?

>>TOOLS>>OPTION

you will get a pop up window, there you will do it

When I first started working in a school, it was pretty basic stuff. Now, after quite a few years, the program has grown and changed. We have foreign teachers teaching advanced math, chemistry. physics. In addition, there is social studies, and the actual English language courses include reading novels (we have moved from graded readers to regular novels).

This does require teachers with degrees in the subjects they teach.

Part of the point is that in order to progress in the English education area, there needs to be an increase in the ability of the teachers.

It wasn't until we got rid of a lot of the less well educated teachers and they were replaced with better qualified people, that the program began to move forward. Teachers need to know when to move forward, when to wait etc. There needs to be curriculum development so that what is learned one year is built on the next year, rather than just repeated.

This requires people who know there stuff.

Yes, that is professors. Nothing related with the 'monkey work' of make student speak a foreign language.

As it was stated earlier, there is no need to have a Phd to ask : how are you? What's your name? ....

and that is what it's all about. What kids need to speak a foreign language (here or somewhere else) : to be in contact with people fluent in this foriegn language. What the kids need to learn a foreign language : a teacher who know how to teach this foreign language. 2 different jobs, 2 differents qualifications. Saddly here those 2 jobs have the same name.

For what I witnessed upcountry, I do believe even me could be qualified to help kids to speak english. On the other hand, I would never ever imagine one single second I could pretend to be an english teacher.

There are several flaws, but to avod to address any of them, the new legislation handle all the foreign people in the education area/field by the same way :

the designation is confused and confusing : what is a teacher in fact? the guy who teach, or the guy doing the monkey job? Why not address that simple problem? Well, it's still a face question, because a part of thai teacher who teach englsih are not qualified to do so (I would say they voluntered to do so by good intentions but still are not qualified in english)

the money problem : as teacher cover both the person whoi have skills and knowledge and the person who have only some fluency, so salary have to be the same for both , aligned on the lowest. Is it necessaryto precise why this slave trade was not addressed?

The visa problem : following a recent pitfall with Karr (even if the guy is looser, I am still waiting to see any legal action against him. In fact he fantasmed about his sad life ... as many farang do when in Thailand or in their own country), to avoid a loose of face (or more accuratly to avoid to have the feeling Thailand could have loose face) the visa system was reformed for the worst. Sure the VOA and the 30 days exemptin was totally abused by visa runners (I count myself as visa runner) but why not simply address the problem of the people who work in the schools. Does the primary school in Nong Muand (Lopbury Province) need a certified english teacher? I do not think so, but yes the kids need to have contact with a farang that will speak english with them.

Worst, but really the most worst (sorry to be grammatically incorrect and redundant), is by those new rules the establishment have secceed to make the expat community explode. Right now each group is fighting for itelf and against the others. Things that are not related to the teachers crackdown are for exemple : what if you are married with a thai wife and earn about 32 000 bht a month? You simply can not stay here (too poor, and it make me laught to hear that in a country where the main part of the population earn less than 7 000 a month). What if you invest 3 000 000 in a condo? Can not stay here too .... Long list. But that long list is forgotten because people right now are divided.

The teacher problem is one amongst other (e pluribus sunum if I recall well). Fact also, as it's well know a part of the so called 'english teachers' are or looser, or people in great problems, as it's also well know they easily raise their voice, the fact to hit them simply cover the real acting. Smoke cloud or kinda.

Well, there is somethig that exist, kinda kind of TV on internet : Winamp

There is possible to set up a server for a minimal cost (I did commit some test 4 years ago, but the idea was not taken as I was farang ). From that you can have audience, or not.

There is exemple of channels in winamp that broadcasted during 2 or 3 years, became too succesful for winamp (let say it's 500 users per channel max). Then with this popularity they got money (banks) and went professional.

Yes it's possible to do something , but it must be thinking as a long way. The business have to be made for 10 years, and it means the invetment must be ble to pay the cost during 10 years (including personal fees, housing rent, food .....)

The media market is not a small market, millions are necessary just for surviving, so technically I can (I supposeI still cando it) set up a server located outside thailand, handle the tech part, even maybe try to ring some thai company in the media industry if you suppose to diffuse thai stuffs (movies or singers), the question I would like to ask is the following : are you able to hire someone for 10 years at 100 000 bht per month? If yes, feel free to PM me, if not I do not think you will find someone here. Better if you contact someone like Eddy Barclay (if still alive) who can add the power of his media firm to you (provide the needed financing).

Because I treat them with respect and help them whenever I can, I know that my wifes family will always stand-by me. That is all the gratitude I need.

How many thai ladies did oyu marry?

Did oyu bought houses for every familly or only for the main spouse familly?

Can I easily marry several thai ladies on the same thai (I ask as oyu seems to be a specialist in at least bigamy, maybe multigamy(?)

I have no reason to send her family money, im my own man and not pussy whipped.

Does it mean you are gay or into Kathoey?

Sorry I am not fluent in english and I am having hard to get your point my lad ...

Reply to Sting01

Did I hit a nerve?????

You are so wrong.

How long have you been in Thailand?

Where have you been living?

Under a rock maybe?

Where did you get your figures? And what right do you have to berate and demean the Thais?

For about 30 % of the thai people, the words WORK, WORKING and WORKER are considered as insult. Have to work is related to poor people, or to low class people. Complaining about a farang who take work from a thai? That is impossible...

Really and why are you in Thailand?

To stay open and stay in Thailand she will be doing more than

providing some tea money to the right people...

And you think this is okay?????

You really need to add to your circle of friends, read more and get out more.

Unsure what to say, maybe I do not see relation on what I am doing in Thailand and the fact a part of the thai people do not consider work as a virtue. Btw us I work in thailand (sorry, not a sexpat, not a early retired nor even a corporate person).

About tea money, I invite you to go throught real the word. Corruption is everywhere in Thailand, and it's not me who say that, I simply repeat what Bangkok Post and the Nation are saying since years (btw us I do think the hightest authority of Thailand also adressed that problem recently).

It's easy to abuse someone , but it's trully more difficult to formulate a realistic idea that is corresponding the reality, and I would love to thank you to kindly remind us that with your higly inaccurate (foolish? moronic?) comments.

Interesting to see comments from so called "professionals" 30k for a basic site setup according to one...

One such example was a site I came upon that was designed by a farang owned Thai company.. the fee for everything was over 35K USD, somthing I would have charged 1k for max. Even then W3C standards eluded them, with non-validating code, and non-existant SEO work.

You have to be kidding!! You charge 1000 baht for a site... it must be good then!!! I wouldn't take a p*ss for that!!

And you expect SEO for next to nothing.... hahahahahahaha!!!

Why dear and beloved admin do I have the feeling you are trying by a way or anohter to promote your business and your pricing????????????

What I do mean is assuming we are in thailand, with a cost ofthe life that is not the cost of life in USA, why not charge a thai price your localcustomers? Why instead do you want people pay the US (or EU) standart price? Because you work folowing western standart? So well, why not do it in US or EU? If you run your business here, you should apply local pricing ... Yes maybe it sucks to not earn 20K bht or more per week, but here is thailand, and prices are not the same as in our original countries.

Check the various freeelance websites, and have an idea of the price there. One poster is also a member of RAC, I suppose he can confirm a site + relational DB + payment + shipping + correct design is way less than 500$.

And by the way, dear and belovec and respected moderator, understand there is no insult intended, nor any kind of personall attack. I just tell my mind, maybe also tell why I am still poor but that is another problem. As banning seems the usual reaction here, feel free to do it if you feel offended or attacked, I use to have been banned a lot of time sinceI am registred here lol

Always interested in the local reaction to this.....they were on the side of the Japanese after all.

Cool, are you a hystory teacher? Or a WW1 buff?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_I

Nice try anyway, learn a bit more anc come to see us next year (0/20)

Certain posters here seem to have misunderstood that teaching *conversation* (what TEFL teachers generally do) is not teaching *grammar* (what TEFL teachers generally don't). *Thai* English teachers teach formal grammar/mechanics/pronunciation rules- that's what they do well, and is why very little English is ever spoken in Thai-taught Thai classrooms.

Let's take a little example and see if our "educated" commentators can help me out:

When I was a TEFLer, I ran into a bit of a pronunciation mystery. The words photo, photograph, and photographer all have different stress patterns and vowel sounds on the 2nd syllables. There *is* a rule that accounts for this, but I never found out what it was called- a friend of mine who'd done a masters specialising in GRAMMAR & MECHANICS (sounds awful, doesn't it?) did happen to know about it, but he'd forgotten specifically what the rule was called.

So here's the challenge.

1. What's the rule? Name it specifically and quote your source.

2. Explain how knowing the name of this rule and teaching it to Thai elementary/high school students could possibly make any difference in their study of English- as it is, after all, "one of the rules."

I *did* actually teach the pronunciation changes, which is all that any native speaker I have ever met (except for that one guy I just mentioned with the master's degree) has ever known about.

To know "all the rules of grammar" literally means an entire encyclopedia of detail, and I doubt that anyone without an academic specialisation in the matter knows even most of them, or that it would ever, ever matter in the typical TEFL environment even if such an environment could pay the kinds of people who would know.

"Steven"

P.S. A No-Prize to the first person who comes up with the rule, especially if it is without googling.

I think it's related to the origin (ethymology) of those words. Photo is obviously old greek, photograph could be french (if yes so the usual stress rules will not apply) photographer is definitively english. By so, photograph (with other words such as 'buffet') will not follow any of the usual stress rules, I do believe photo and photographer do follow the usual stress rules (but as I am a frog I can be totally wrong, is not it?)

One point (a pedantic one) if I recall Cambridge position of this subject , those differences (stress and prononciation) apply only in english english, but all of them will have the prononciation of photograph in american english

www.getafreelancer.com No, nothing to do with the soi 7 mob

Check out the Injuns work history and get on the mailing list.

Some good Indian programmers in there.

Insist on using Skype for part of your communication.

www.rentcoder.com, www.scriptlance.com

India = fast and cheap

but

India = mesy coding, not commented, and if you need to modify it you will have to re do it. That is a generalisation I do agree, I do know indian coders working as western coders, but here they tend to be not that fast (same speed as I) and not that cheap.

Outsourcing in general, with skype, ICQ,MSN .... is a good solution as long as you find a reliable coder (well maybe that why my boss who never met me still payme after almost 3 years of that type of work).

Another solution would be to contact my boss (USA) and if you have deal he would let handle you work assuming I would do the tech part, the relation client/customer being btw you and my boss).

I would suggest you refrain from "naming and shaming" as there are always two sides to every story and we have only heard yours. You state that you "don't play that way" but continue to drop hints and make accusations.

Any further discussion along these lines will result in posts deleted and the thread closed. Capiche?

Well, I do not quite understand.

Why that reaction?

Is it possible to have more details (not on the crap website part, but on CC part)?

The website is simply to display a product and information to people who have already found the site address through non-web based advertising, any custom from someone just finding the site by chance would be a bonus but not a market we are aiming for.

Presented like that, and assuming that is really what you are looking for, pricing should be around 10K.

If ONE product, relational DB is not needed (a flat one, such as a CSV file, will be enought).

There is a free e-cart , named AGORA. Nothing to pay, moslty you can install it yourself, there is a huge support or directly by the firm who maintain it, or in yahoo group.

In that case you will jsut to hire a designer, read someone able to use photoshop, and that is what cost the less (using photoshop is NOT an IT skill, doign action script that are optimised are an IT skill).

Sure there is people who run a business and have to have earning (blls to pay, employees to pay ..). Do you want to support them by paying what they think you have to pay, or as Van Zam pointed out, do you prefer to save your money for what really matter?

And one more time I do repeat, I can say so because I do not look for local market, more I do not do website, so I am not trying to woo the OP. I jsut tell my mind, with the accuracy that imply (I can be drunk and saying BS, I can also tell the truth ...)

The 'two to two' example is a good one, that I use for a pun: "Oh, my watch has two to two, too."

There are numerous ways of telling time in every culture I've known, and the key factor IMHO is whether words communicate. One trick in teaching EFL is to know all the variations, and be able to say which variations are okay. Also, you need to know at which level it would communicate. If a non-English speaker calls their wristwatch a clock, I don't argue (Spanish uses the same word, reloj for both). But I reply with a proper use of wristwatch that teaches the student without causing him to lose face.

Experience - such as teaching EFL in Thailand for two years, full time - is a great substitute or replacement or equivalence for formal training in pedagogy and grammar.

That was my point in a previous post : Does a certification or a diploma is needed to pedagogically behave by this way, or experience (or willingness to aquire this experience) is enought?

I do believe, because I witnessed it years ago, there is no need to have a diploma for that, assuming people who give conversational skills to students are NOT teachers. Assistant, repetitor, tutor .... whatever you want to call them is good as long as it's not teacher. They do not teach, they make students fluent in a foreign language!! Is it looking down to those people who do certainly a good job? Not at all, maybe that is semantic, maybe it's simply to point they must have skills that are not necessary learn in school or university.

Some interesting info but lots of misleading stuff as well. Sting you cannot say that a website should cost between 10-20,000, all you do is make people think they can get any site for that and they bloody well can't.. I'm fed up of people asking me to do something for next to nothing!! If you are going to people advice on how much things cost, maybe you should be more specific ,how many pages, how many images scripts, commerce, flash etc etc... Personally I won't do a site for less than 20,000 because I figure if it takes me 4-5 days at least plus testing then that's fair.

So let me just say again... some very basic websites you can get for 15,000 baht but if you want e-commerce and design it will cost double.... IMHO!!

Well, it's up to you.

What I did say it's 20 000 is the max price assuming you will use an already ecommerce shopping cart (OSC, Zend , X-cube). So most of the work will be work on the templates. Do we agree? I can give you a bunch of URL realised by my boss company who took about 1 week and were paid 400 or 500 $. And the company is in USA, not here.

Do you work here? Do you have a business here?Do you have a WP and by so have thai staffs? If yes it can explain your pricing. Working as freelance for abroad companies made things totally different, in both legal requirement and pricing.

In rentacoder, that kind of website is cost about 250 us$.

Now, if you get clients willing to pay 30 000 bht, that is great for you. If real , maybe shold I stop to do outsourcing work and prospect the local market (it would explain why someone said I had bold statement). But if I compare with the global market, it's simply overpriced.

Better if people go to RAC, scriptlance, freelance or other websites like that. They will save money for sure.

The reason for this is that many native English speakers do not know the rules of the language - as they have never been "taught" english formally.

To which rathole of the former British empire are you referring? In the colonies called USA, we had to take courses in English (including grammar and pronunciation) for twelve years, and more advanced courses for a BA. But if you mean the pedantic rules of grammar, and all the nomenclature for the subjunctive past perfect continuous passive, I would not have been being bothered to have been learning that.

Probably England. The formalised grammar content of our English Language 'O' level was covered in one lesson, much to general disbelief. That was thirty-odd years ago. Of course, there was far more correctional teaching over one's time in school, but it was not so formal. Indeed, a common complaint of teachers of foreign languages in England has been that they have to teach the grammatical terminology needed for the grammars of languages of Europe.

As to the normal pronunciation of '1.58 p.m.', that is a topic in itself. Let me just say that saying "two to two 'p' 'm'" would get you some odd looks, as indeed would "two to two", however many times it may in fact have been uttered.

The rules of English spelling are fascinating. I found a monograph discussing them once, and I wish I'd made a note of its title so I could get myself a copy. There were many that were not mentioned in school. The rules of English stress have been a research topic, and as native speakers we were barely taught any of them. Some of them really come under the heading of how to read - for a lot of vocabulary, it really is doubtful that the spoken form is the primary form.

In short, for an English speaker to teach the rules of English, he must make an explicit study of them, and I have severe doubts as to the adequacy of what is taught in school in England for this purpose.

The two to two was posted by me, so allow me to discuss it a bit.

During my school time (including University time) I was told the best would be to make it easy and pronouce 'two to two pm' as : one fifty height pm And the case was given to us as the exemple to never use (because obviously useless). But I do repeat there is place(s) in LOS where thai teachers (namely in the boy' school in Chayaphum) who still teach the kids : it's two to two o'clock !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (please notice also the o'clock, no kidding).

So does it need some certification to NOT teach things like that? Does it need some certification to laught when suddently a kid tell the time by this way? Or does it simply need people trully fluent in conversational english to correct the kids and tell them (not teach them, but tell them) no one will say that?

So yes, teachers , Kru we should say, have to be hightly qualified, but repetitors , Ajarn let say, have simply to have enought knowledge.

That's a bold statement! Keep writing, I'm off to get more beer, hope will read more from you, pls

something about Ozy customers and your pool skills, anything - i love it :-)

Not bold, or maybe am I bold myself (lo, Alexander reincarnation )

What I do say : I do not work for local (thais) or expats ... Not interresting work to do, the most interresting work in Thailand is forwarded abroad. SO here stay only the basic shit (raw HTML, basic php ...)

Trying hard? No, not in my case. I am still selling for 45 us$ the same coding that I created 6 years ago for exemple : how to cover a dropdown (tag <select>) with a DHTML menu in IE 6 or less (mean 5.5,5,4...). Fact is I had some hardtime to create it, fact after 6 years it took to me less than 10 mn to insert it, so it's good money (well and only 6 lines of CSS + 2 lines in javascript so no headhache). Reusability is a key word for any responsible coder (mean someone who intend to do that job for a while and who love what he is doing).

I use, promote, maintain free shopping cart because I believe in the free coding. People (client) in that case pay for the real ability to maintain on the long run the script working. The day the script is not accurate anymore they can change, they are not legally tie by any fuc**** licence. Well, maybe that is not the earning wise for me, but I do prefer to have trustfull clients than to have to run everyday to earn my money. Same apply for RAC, I am there since 4 years, have a pool of clients that provide me with regular jobs (in more of my regular job) and it's okie. Be able to survive and have activity in RAC is worth something I think (mostly people there do not last long because it need big 'corones').

The one thousand per minute was used to say the usual websites do NOT have the same needs than a site like TV or NYC stock exchange, or ebay. Usually an e-commerce will be happy to get some hits every day.

Ozie customers? I definitively like them, they are polite, usually easy to deal with. What I call Ozie customers are mostly firms who sell e-commerce and ask me to finalize stuffs that are a bit complex to realize. Pool skills? Well unsure, I went in final of french Championship in 1999, so I suppose I am still a decent player (if you have some money to loose I can show you if you dare;) )

Anyway you have right to laught about me or my professional life, no probs my lad, Bozo could be my second name ... anyway after some years in that business and 4 years in this business in thailand I at least found a way to stay here and enjoy wihtout crooking other people or expats. Obviously the guy the OP met was not at this level.

True. the basic www shouldn't cost much - unless you're dealing with ***** or ***** company. All money are into php programming and billing | shipping | inventory part. ALso, SEO might cost some. true.

20K means nothing - it's jsut a 550 smuckers

Also, hosting - lotsa crap on the street - beware

good luck

Assuming the OP , or any people asking about www here, is not looking for a site that will gather 1000 hits per minutes, 20 K is the price.

Not sure whatyou mean by nothing. but 20 K is still money (some thai people have to work more than a month to earn it), and even if basic a website is still work to do. Right now (I post here because I am turning bore with it) I correcting a OSC based website for an OZ socciety who sell 'ready to use' e-commerce ... I got wonderfull mock up (those guys are great with photoshop and certainly also in selling) but God, they have no clue of what programming (I know php is a script language, but still programming skills are needed when methodology is needed).

My true advice would be to avoid any of those who will private (with less or more than 5 letters in the nickname), eventually better to go to www.rentacoder.com, and post your work. There you will find reliable coders who are professional (in case you get/choose a bad one you re protected), and the prices will be cheaper than anythign you can get here. You will be able to get western standart quality, real dead line, propositions made by professional coders and not by wannabe overstayer in thailand who are litterate with front page but without any real clues on maintenance, reusability of coding ... (if I do a work, I will not wish the client to come back to me after some weeks because it does not work anymore, and if I create a custom payment/shipping module I will try to make it standart enought to be able to resell it for OSC, Zend Cart, X cube .... so as client better if you find someone like that).

On the other hand, yes you have reputable and well renowed firms here in Bangkok, I know one not far of MBK, but there is a lot of wanabee, a lot of people who sell but not realize, a lot of people who will give you headhache with huge technical words but who do not know what hey really mean. Be very careful.

One exemple, in the place I use to go to play pool no one know what is my job, 3 weeks ago, a guy asked me, my answer was : I am doing business on internet (true as I work remote for foreign clients), so he started to try to sell me a website that will maximise my profits on the net.Pricing near the price you payed (55 K), OSC based, explaing me as I was french he will be necessity to create new module for payment, shipping and with french zip .... lot of BS ... it ended when he asked me what I was selling on the net and me to answer I was a coder. So be very careful.

Keep in mind a e-commerce based on a big name (OSC, Zend, X-cube) will take btw 2 and 4 weeks to be ready, keep also in mind mostly it will be DESIGN work (a good coder or a goodfirm will have already developped the custom modules you are lookingfor) and by so need no real IT skills (but artistic skills). A fair price (assuming you are not looking for a site that will have 1000 hits per minutes) will be btw 10K and 25K (depending if flash or not, depending if static or dynamic ....).

Sorry if I was verbous, but it's just a way to go far of my work for some minutes and also maybe to be of some help. And by the way, for those who think I do unfair comments, I do precise I live here, I work as freelance coder but I do not acept any locals or fellas as clients, so I do not have any bad ideas hidding behind my comments, but they based on my experience or on what I witnessed

I can tell you who not to use in Bangkok.

If a member here PM's you and his nick is only 4 letters long, do not use him - a big warning.

This "*******" is expensive, builds crap websites and then steals your domain name and has the hide, to use it for his own website.

I was charged 60k and paid for my domain name using his credit card (paid him in cash as I didnt have my cards with me). He is still using my domain name for his own website.

In the end the site looked like &lt;deleted&gt;!

I had the website made by another company for 22,000 Baht and it looks and functions brilliantly.

Put his name here, can be fun to know who he is.

60 K is huge amount. In the past one of main sponsort used to ask 10 000 for a website, and it was a fair deal. 60 K is about what the society I work for (baed in Florida) is asking for dynamic , DB drived , with payment system and lot of cusotmisation website, and those price is for US customers.

22 000 bhts is a normal local pricing for exemple a OSC based customised to the client design.

So please, post it the name of the sucker who used to ask 60K bht, or message me I will be glad to make him some advertising (at least I will simply block him to be referral or indirect referral to APnic, Arin and Internic).

In these coups and many like them, investor confidence is but a euphemism for large western based mulitnational corporations to maximize the profits they can take out of the target country while leaving the least amount of money in the local coffers, which is why, as a later poster noted, you do not see many economic powerhouses in Latin America. Investor confidence does not always bode well for the citizens of a country, even a country like Thailand.

I fully agree on it, and this why the actual situation (and by actual I mean since some years, not only related to the coup) in Thailand is so difficult to understand from abroad.

We have on the same time a very nationalistic situation (comparable to the one existing in France) officialised by a set a very nationalistic laws, and on the same time you have an official policy (attract foreign capital ----not only investissors, but namely foreign capital---) that is opposite to those laws and situation. The situation is comparable to the implementation of Daewoo in France, and still with the same failure than this implementation. A society able to put billions in a market will not do it because they want to please a country or the locals, but simply because they suppose it will be quickly a return on the investment. If not, the society will simply leave for somewhere else.

Here what is critical is the local are not backed up by their social system (jobless allocation? social security?) So there is no real way for a responsible governement to refuse firms to be implemented in Thailand on the ground it will somehow hurt some nationalistic feelings. Honestly, even if Carrefour or Big C are not thai, they use thai people, by so have an impact on the life by the salaries they pay. Start to bother Big C or Carrefour, and believe me they will close all very quickly (currently in discussion in France).

For what I know from those societies (I have good insight there in both of them), Thailand is actually considered as a risky place for LONG TERM strategies. As rules are susceptible to change at any time. What the rules are can be handled, but changes of the rules, changes on how rules are understood, changes on how rules are enforced is what world class firms fear the most. The 2 firms I named (because I know them) are not looking to buy thailand or part of thailand. They are looking for market part . If to get those market parts they have to control fully a local company they will do it, atthe opposite if they have to be minority share holders they will do it to. They play by therules simply (As mostly all companies) but they need clear rules. They are not looking for a raw number (we earned 100 billions of bht) because raws numbers are nothing, they are looking for percentage ( we have 33% of the marker of retailers in SEA). So nominees, direct control, or minority share holding , both are okie as long as they are clear. Uncertainity is the plague that global business want to avoid.

May not be a good idea to use a service currently based on this topic > http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88433&

The last time I looked, Poipet was not in Laos.

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Maestro

I've never heard of any problems with using visarun agents to Cambodia. I'm sure percentage wise, the majority of visaruns are done to the Cambodian border posts so if there were any problems, it's sure we would have heard some by now.

In case of Aranyaprathet, visa agents as useless. Well, if oyu love to throw your maney by the window you can use them, but there is not reason.

The fees :

Cambodian visa : 1000 bht (sometimes they do not accept US$ because the change rate, so better to have both US$ and th Bht).

CAmbodian Police (first stop in Cambodia to get the enter stamp) 100 bht.

Cambodian Police (for the exit stamp) 0 to 100 bht. Pay if you want it fast, do not pay if you want some arguments

For both exit and enter in Thailand, the cost is free (in 5 years I was never ever asked one bath by the immigration.).

I usually is the guy who complain about Thailand, but Aranyaprathet Immigration deparment is a jewel (I mean men and women working there, not the usuall hasslers trying to rip off the tourist). Immigration officers are helpfull, polite , efficient, never ask for a bribe. Totallt opposit of Nong Kwai where I always felt something where wrong in my documents, or that I was a mostwanted fugitive trying to buy his way out ... FOr Nong Kwai I would advise to get help, for Aranyaprthet there is no need

Let me start by saying great post. On the bit that I have coloured in bold, you know this gives me a great idea of how to get a new LOW COST mia noi. I have been asked on several occasions by girls to give them "English" lessons, but have declined... Maybe I will read an English textbook after all.

It's how PhilinBangkok (ajarn.com) claim he met his wife. The family asked him to teach the daughter and after a while .... wedding

i can suggest one place.... pool table, but only one

go to ekamai...turn into soi 21, a bar/restuarant called Tuba

definitely middle class....thai ppl....not too crowded on most nights. good bar to hang out and have a few drinks. but dont tell too many ppl about my neighbourhood hangout

Well, maybe he should try Tong Lohr soi 20 (depend from where he come!), a bar restaurant name tuba ....

Neighborhood hangout?????????? you live there Mig? I worked near that restaurant and went there many times with the gf.

Q ball in Klong Toey is a great place for those who love snooker. People there are great players.

Sukhumvit soi 22 'Flyers' is not bad at all, even if more 'people'

English teachers that can't even speak thai...just another example of farang in Thailand trying to get away with stuff they can't do at home...and teaching is just a drop in the bucket...

Well, consider Chula (the most prestigious Thai univeristy I think), when teaching there (Faculty of Art) in 2003, I was specifically told to NOT use thai.

I do agree I was teaching french, not english. But the goal when a deparment hire a native speaker is to make the student fluent in conversation in a foreign language, not to learn that language (it's supposed to be already made).

The main part of the so called english teachers, those called by some posters pervs, whackos, packbackers .... are not teaching. They are called teachers because the genetical disability of thai people to call a cat a cat. They are repetitor, or tutor, or conversationist (neologism?). They are not qualified for teaching (but mostly they do not pretend to be), but to make the kids able to speak (mostly kids are affraid to loose face when spoken to a farang, if the farang look like a monkey, is drunk, dress like a beggar, so the shyness will disapear) (jokking). Those people are here to provide a service that can not be provided by the thai teachers (or the french english teachers in france , the problem is true for every country).

The system did wonder in the 60' 70', because the backpackers were backpackers, stopping here for 6 month before to go to Katmandu. Rigth now , a backpackers simply can't do that : he will earn 20 000 bht, have an appartment (5 000 at least) with electricity (2 000), have to eat (100bht/day so at least 3 000/month with only mama or papaya pok ...) he will have to do visa run every month (1 000 for cambodian police + 300 as tip to cambodia immi) + the trip by itself (sorry I do not know the price, I think at least 1 000 including drink and meal), he will at least have a decent meal friday evening with the collegues and shares one or two beers (3 000 a monht). How can he pay for his return ticket? I challenge every one on those numbers to call them non accurate.

So not only to teach (sic) 50 naughty and nasty kids without any support from the kinder garten administration I have to have a good cursus, experience as teacher in my own country, I also have to accept to be paid peanuts and beg pardon to the locals who think it's unfair; but I must have savings BEFORE to come here to support myself and support the price of my return ticket.

So I do think some posters are out of mind, brain dead or brain washed, when they are screaming after the so called english teachers and saying this new set of laws is good. It's not good, for the majority of the country. It will be good in one way : it will be sabai sabai for the sexpats as the kids will be not educated (the parents can not afford the price of a real teachers from Cambridge or Oxford, assuming a graduate from Cody , Wy, is not a native english speaker but and american english native speaker) the only way to move out of their own misery will be to hook up with some wealthy middle aged white english native speaker and selll sex against money (and maybe also some conversational skills).

I do repeat what I have already proposed : simply stop to call the tutors/repetitors teachers, allow them a way to get a WP and a visa easily , based not on diploma but on results, let them do that for a limitate period of time (1 year or 2) , then of they can pass a diploma and become teachers (for the best ofthem) or they go. It was the spirit of the old system : the guy stay here for 6 month make some money , make the kids speak and then he go to Katmandu, and another come.

I forget to say it will also allow the people who do have a diploma in education to be real teachers with real responsabilities on the class and the cursus; it will allow to make a difference btw those who teach and those who help.