fab4

What a big show.

- voting for something that is a fact already.

- voting.... while Thai people will not get the chance to vote.

- voting by the NLA which nobody ever voted for.

Who cares? Why do they do this?

Do they believe anyone will care about this? - I mean, everyone can see it's totally absurd....

the country has to learn, especially the " clever thais" up north, that they cant elect corrupt criminals just because "they are there and want to"

They didn't.

So policies that result in government expenditure ending up in the pockets of the poor are deemed losses?

The big bag of money has to stay in Bangkok or else there'll be a coup.

So, hand-outs for the poor and not reaching them are to be preferred to infrastructure projects which generate work and income two times, while building and while using when finished?

I think it is to be preferred the government spent 682 billion Baht on infrastructure projects (like the planned dual track 160km/h rail links) covering 'upcountry' that would be better than 'losing' the same amount with poor still poor and neither population nor country being able to profit from the investment for a long time.

That's strange, I could have sworn that had it not been for the Dems, PDRC and certain backers there would have been 2 Trillion baht spent on Infrastructure projects independent of, and in addition to the Rice Subsidy Scheme, so your "argument", such as it is, being based on a non existent either / or hypothesis, is irrelevant.

Reap what you sow - and certain people said it would be different this time, just give it time.

Just how much time do you need, before it finally sinks in?.........................................

Well the PTP had 3 years and always wanted more time.

Also under the PTP all the Red shirt radio and TV stations were pumping out propaganda at full power including the hundreds of them without a licence to broadcast and they weren't shut down but that of course was because they were supporting the Red Shirts line.

Well the PTP had 3 years and always wanted more time.

Really? They had a strange way of showing it if you ask me, unless of course, you can convince me that dissolving parliament and trying to hold an election was just their way of "wanting more time".

You have heard of the "Bluesky" TV channel I take it? Of course all the community and other radio stations in the whole of Thailand were affiliated with the PTP or UDD, there can be no other explanation (in your world)..........................................

Yesterday? Actually 13th November:

Thai PBS 13th November

Plodprasob says Pheu Thai will not join charter writing process

He pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views about the charter such as protection of the liberty and right for equal treatment and a true democratic rule.

Mr Plodprasob further said that any official view of the party concerning the charter would have to be discussed in the party or, at least, in the executive committee. He suggested that the martial law be eased to allow political parties to hold meetings.

The Nation 15th November

The Pheu Thai Party yesterday advised the chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee of its willingness to meet with the CDC and provide input on the new charter.

The CDC had requested the party's cooperation.

But Pheu Thai expressed concerns over the National Council for Peace and Order's ban on political gatherings, saying it affected the party's ability to discuss the issue.

"The Pheu Thai Party is pleased to cooperate and take part in providing views regarding the drafting of the new constitution in order make it most democratic and in order [that the charter] can be a guarantee for justice for the country and people from all sides in accordance to what the party and the international community adhere to and accept," it said in a letter to the committee.

The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter.

So there we have it, rather than ramrod711's skewed take on proceedings in an attempt to make political "points" where there are none to be made, what we actually have is, same story, same outcome, different media sources...............................

Pathetic.

Well thank you for your incisive argument - care to expand on why it's "pathetic"?

He probably considered the source. Your argument is pathetic and pedantic, as usual. Bottom line, first theysaid repeatedly that they wouldn't, now they will. Probably starting to realize how irrelevant they are.

See Post #21 and just see if you can make a reasoned argument without resorting to insults...................................

Not sure I follow YOUR skewed take on it either ... Thaksin's party have clearly said in various news sources over the past few weeks/months that they will not take part in the process, and then yesterday/today they announce they will.

Really, I believe you'll find that the PTP said they would not join the CDC. If you can point me to sources where they said they would not offer ideas I'll be grateful.

November 13th Thai PBS:

Plodprasob says Pheu Thai will not join charter writing process

He pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views about the charter such as protection of the liberty and right for equal treatment and a true democratic rule.

and way back in July, their ideas were the same;

23rd July 2014

BANGKOK — The ruling party of the former government will not send any members to join the "National Reform Council" outlined in Thailand’s new interim constitution, sources inside the Pheu Thai Party say.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1406105378&section=11&typecate=06

....................................

His remarks were made after former deputy prime minister and key Pheu Thai Party member Plodprasop Suraswadi said the party would not offer its opinions to the CDC on the new Constitution.

Actually he didn't say that. What he said was that the PTP wanted to consult over any response to the CDC but that that could not be done under the current restrictions imposed by the junta - quite a different thing altogether.............................................

The Pheu Thai Party yesterday advised the chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee of its willingness to meet with the CDC and provide input on the new charter.

The CDC had requested the party's cooperation.

But Pheu Thai expressed concerns over the National Council for Peace and Order's ban on political gatherings, saying it affected the party's ability to discuss the issue.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776612-pheu-thai-says-its-ready-to-offer-ideas-for-new-charter/#entry8672517

Plodprasob says Pheu Thai will not join charter writing process

yesterday

Pheu Thai says it's ready to offer ideas for new charter

Today

Looks like PTP are still operating like a well oiled machine, clear cohesive policies and a clear vision.

Yesterday? Actually 13th November:

Thai PBS 13th November

Plodprasob says Pheu Thai will not join charter writing process

He pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views about the charter such as protection of the liberty and right for equal treatment and a true democratic rule.

Mr Plodprasob further said that any official view of the party concerning the charter would have to be discussed in the party or, at least, in the executive committee. He suggested that the martial law be eased to allow political parties to hold meetings.

The Nation 15th November

The Pheu Thai Party yesterday advised the chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee of its willingness to meet with the CDC and provide input on the new charter.

The CDC had requested the party's cooperation.

But Pheu Thai expressed concerns over the National Council for Peace and Order's ban on political gatherings, saying it affected the party's ability to discuss the issue.

"The Pheu Thai Party is pleased to cooperate and take part in providing views regarding the drafting of the new constitution in order make it most democratic and in order [that the charter] can be a guarantee for justice for the country and people from all sides in accordance to what the party and the international community adhere to and accept," it said in a letter to the committee.

The party also urged the CDC to coordinate with the NCPO and the Election Commission to allow party members to meet in order to discuss the charter.

So there we have it, rather than ramrod711's skewed take on proceedings in an attempt to make political "points" where there are none to be made, what we actually have is, same story, same outcome, different media sources...............................

Pathetic.

Well thank you for your incisive argument - care to expand on why it's "pathetic"?

He mentioned he would be more pleased if the lifting could take place. IT was NOT an order.

2nd sentence sounds more like the Shin red army that was stopped in it's tracks by the PM -the reason for the intervention---

Sanctions ?? like not buy the rotten rice from Thailand??

No need to go on with this "intervention" invention - even Prayuth admits to what the action on May 22 was:

Prayut explained to the UN chief the political situation in Thailand that had led to the coup against an elected civilian government.

I use the word as I know now that it sticks in the throat of some clan members, so just to disappoint you I will continue with it, like a friendly coup Intervenes to stop the red Shin army from fully arming and mobilization towards BKK---it's true and gets up some of your noses.

If you're doing that just to get a "rise" out of members surely that's just trolling?

Foreign investors also want consistency. It's hard to attract foreign capital investment when laws and regulations can be changed at the whims of the NCPO and its rubber-stamp government; changes for which there are no legal appeal processes beyond that allowed by the NCPO. And given the current and ever tightening proposed anti-foreign legislation, foreign investors have no reason to expect the commercial environment will improve should they make early commitments. Even China prefers to barter with Thailand rather than pay in cash for trade; I expect Russia will follow suit.

Many of these FBA changes were on the cards mid last year.

................and more on the books and shelved since 2007. It doesn't make them any more sensible and it doesn't make the investment environment any more consistent, if that is what you are implying - rules change here by the minute, especially with this lot in charge who will make laws and resurrect old and ignored legislation if they think it will be perceived as being "good" for Thailand. In short, Nationalism, the tired old fallback of juntas and yellowshirts.

According to SOME all the evils of Thailand have happened in the last 6 months--correction and the last time the Military took over.

Usual story "it's everyone else's fault"

Do they? That's curious, "according to SOME all the evils of Thailand" are down to Thaksin. You may recall the last time the military took over they rewrote the constitution - the very same constitution that needs to be rewritten now and is responsible for the political unrest (according to the junta and its supporters). So I think it's fair for people to suggest that the juntas must bear some responsibility, don't you think?

Or is it really just down to one man?.....................................

Foreign investors also want consistency. It's hard to attract foreign capital investment when laws and regulations can be changed at the whims of the NCPO and its rubber-stamp government; changes for which there are no legal appeal processes beyond that allowed by the NCPO. And given the current and ever tightening proposed anti-foreign legislation, foreign investors have no reason to expect the commercial environment will improve should they make early commitments. Even China prefers to barter with Thailand rather than pay in cash for trade; I expect Russia will follow suit.

Many of these FBA changes were on the cards mid last year.

................and more on the books and shelved since 2007. It doesn't make them any more sensible and it doesn't make the investment environment any more consistent, if that is what you are implying - rules change here by the minute, especially with this lot in charge who will make laws and resurrect old and ignored legislation if they think it will be perceived as being "good" for Thailand. In short, Nationalism, the tired old fallback of juntas and yellowshirts.

Ah, thanks. I missed that one, been a bit busy lately.

So, Pheu Thai only got a phone call to ask them to join, but no formal invitation.

The "pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views" in the OP is still a bit confusing then. Its not explicitly stated why they couldn't send an official representative. That may be related to the 'formal' stance of the party on not participating of course.

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

What a very shop steward, has been, trade union official response that was.

and that's a bad thing?

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

Or maybe they're simply not interested in any reforms unless they can decide all on their own what they are.

Well that could be the reason but I doubt it. That "reason" however is applicable to those who will make the ultimate decision on reforms, otherwise they've gone to a lot of trouble for nothing. Please don't try and deny what the end game is here...............................

Well that should wipe out most of your elitists right to vote at a stroke! Given their cunning with share transactions and tax minimisation.

No body has the right to disenfranchise half the population because "they don`t have enough education to understand that they should only vote for us". That is B/s and was used to deny women the vote for centuries.

Only true time travelling fascists espouse that sort of supremacist/elitest junk imo.

But ok, do away with the EU, Un, move to N Korea, form the 4th Reich New Siam Order and be happy.

even with "cunning with share transactions and tax minimization" they pay to the state more than they get.

"No body has the right to disenfranchise half the population because"

say it to prosperous China and Singapore.

if a mom of 2 is a drug-addicted prostitute, in US you take her kids away by court order, but still leave her the right to vote - because she is the type of voter, any populist would die for.

"they don`t have enough education to understand that they should only vote for us".

I didn't say "education". I said intellectual capability. It's not possible to develop it by education.

Good grief, if you were allowed a vote you'd be dangerous........................................

There is also another way of looking at this, and that is they are shooting themselves in the collective PTP foot. If they participate but their suggestions ignored or over-ridden, when it comes to the next elections they can at least argue to their support base that they were involved in the charter drafting process (with the enemy) but all their suggestions were knocked aside. By not participating and claiming that it is because they were removed from power by coup rather than elections, they are not serving their supporters.

There are probably numerous other arguments, but I personally believe that to not participate is more damaging to them.

And to those who are saying sod them, they screwed the country and as a result should have no say in the charter, you too are misguided. No matter how much damage they created, and there is no denying it, they are a political player with a true support base and therefore should play a role, no matter how distatseful to the PTP haters.

If they indeed still have a support base then it is those supporters that they are screwing by not allowing them input.

If they had the people at heart then they would be asking those who support them what they wanted. But its never been like that, its always been about what those at the top want and what they have to give out to their supporters to be able to get it.

I am sure there those in the PT heartland who would want better education for their kids, better health care, energy security, a fair judicial system where the rich could not get away scot free while the poor are jailed.

But the only thought would appear to be for their own rich elite who may end up banned from politics, held accountable for the laws they have broken, be jailed, or even, god forbid, have their wealth confiscated.

I am sure there those in the PT heartland who would want better education for their kids, better health care, energy security, a fair judicial system where the rich could not get away scot free while the poor are jailed.

I'm sure they would, but with present circumstances pertaining and bearing in mind the expected outcome of these "reforms", that would likely necessitate them emigrating................................

I look forward to nickymaster's take on this as being

"very positive for Thailand"................................

This is the same guy as the flood guy - the water management guy? The same guy who was accused by the criminal court of signing an illegal order to ship 100 Bengal tigers to China in 2002? Wow, he is still in a position of power and influence in Thailand. Amazing.

Power and influence? You must be mistaking him with a certain ex-General, and no, I'm not referring to the junta leader.

It would seem that the Pheu Thai party is really peeved at not being invited. They stated a few times before that they would not cooperate and not obstruct and adapt a 'wait-and-so' stance for the time till reforms and charter activities got more form.

Somehow it seems they are now annoyed taken by their word that they wouldn't cooperate. " 'not invited', tjeez did the NRC, CDC, whoever think we really meant it?"

As I wrote before, an overwhelming response could have had positive influences.

"I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't you?"

With thanks to Monty Python

It would seem that the Pheu Thai party is really peeved at not being invited.

Despite your attempt to portray a political parties decision not to take part in any type of charter writing process which has come about as the result of a coup that removed democracy from Thailand, as some sort of petulance, it is more likely that the clarification of the PTP's position was due to this erroneous report

The Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) says it welcomes opinions from all sectors, and various political parties have already accepted its invitation to discuss the charter drafting.

The CDC is scheduled to hold discussions with those parties on the following dates: November 17th with the Pheu Thai Party,.........................

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776208-several-political-parties-accept-to-participate-in-the-thai-charter-drafting-discussion/#entry8664800

Ah, thanks. I missed that one, been a bit busy lately.

So, Pheu Thai only got a phone call to ask them to join, but no formal invitation.

The "pointed out that the party could not send an official representative to meet the CDC but could, at best, offer some general views" in the OP is still a bit confusing then. Its not explicitly stated why they couldn't send an official representative. That may be related to the 'formal' stance of the party on not participating of course.

If they send an "official" representative to meet the CDC they would be endorsing the process, hence no show.

Before someone accuses me of being pro-Thaksin, I point out that I have been an advisor to the Democrats for 30 years. The author of the report produced by the Democrats on the losses of the Rice Subsidy Scheme is the son of a friend or mine. However, I point out that the report is one sided political propaganda it does not apportion any losses at all to the Democrats who started the vote buying scheme ran the rice pedging scheme at a loss for two years. For the 2011 election the Dems offered originally B11,000/tonnes whilst the farmers demanded B14,000/tonne. Phue Thai offered B15,000/tonne and were duly elected. Both the Dems and PTP schemes ould have made losses. The pie chart in the Nation article tries to apportion all losses to PTP and not to the schemes ran by the Dems, and other Goverments in power between 2004 and 2011. The article in the Bangkok Post is unbiased.

For a start the rice schemes were designed to subsidise the farmers and therefore designed to make a loss. From 2004 until 2007 the price of the rice bought by the program increased by a whopping 300% due to speculation in the commodity markets. This windfall profit therefore is the reason that the previous governments only lost 163Billion Baht. Had there not have been speculators gambling on the commodity markets, then the loss ot the previous Governments would have been similar to the current loss. It should also be realised that the currrent dumping of Thai stockpiled rice on the world market has reduced the selling price by a further 37% which has caused a further loss.

Thank you for an unemotional addition to the "debate".

On the lighter side it takes a brave man or woman to admit they have been an advisor to the Democrat Party for the past 30 years. I hope the political "success" of the dem party, post Leekpai, was not solely down to your advice...............................

Though it occurred little more than a year ago, the swift attempt, under the guidance of Somsak and Nikhom, to push controversial legislation through Parliament has probably faded from many people's memory. Were the pair observing their sacred parliamentary duty to be prudent and allow as much debate as possible when dealing with great controversies? The answer was pretty plain for those of us who watched Parliament in action on the days in question.[/size]

Oh, I don't know, maybe they did?

The House of Representatives voted 310-0 early on Friday to pass a draft of the amnesty bill after 19 hours of heated debate during which lawmakers opposed to it walked out.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/11/thai-mps-pass-political-amnesty-bill-201311142120256401.html

and it's bit difficult to "observe their parliamentary duty" when being threatened by rampant opposition MP's



“an angry Democrat MP grabs the throat of a parliamentary police officer called in to restore order
on the opposition benches of the Democrat Party”

682 billion baht lost.......................thais should read the news and say something about this new.....with that money you can build quiet a few university and hospital or renew at least the materiel....but these people who permit such things are criminals

or one could get 3 years 6 months of military expenditure (at 2013 rates), or a coup* - they don't come cheap in terms of GDP...........................

( * Paul Collier, a professor of economics at Oxford who has noted that coups “are not a cheap way of replacing a government”, calculates that the cumulative effect of a coup, tracked over several years, is to reduce incomes by 7%.) http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Of course most of the military expenditures are within the National Budget, unlike the "self-financing" RPPS which only needed a "revolving funds".

BTW the economist article is really interesting although a bit too general at times. It also doesn't hint at the costs to the country had the Yingluck government been able to muddle along. That would be too specific and is therefore not covered although the coup is put on the heap of 'coups'.

"Like every government before theirs, the generals-turned-civilians face two longstanding economic puzzles: How much to pay farmers for their rice; and how best to manage the exchange rate. They are unlikely to find solutions fundamentally different from those attempted by the elected government they ousted."

Now if only the Yingluck government hadn't been on a spending spree the current government would be much more able to tackle the sluggish economy.

Anyway, the 40 billion Baht the current government spends on a 'rice' is a real subsidy, included in the National Budget 2014/2015.

Spending spree - with the economy showing a debt to GDP ratio of 45.7% in 2013 I hardly think the economy was in a parlous state (not including the economic damage caused by the dem/pdrc government ouster campaign of course) You do know that the junta are planning to spend 3 Trillion Baht, more than the Yingluck government planned to, more even than the dems own 1.4 Trillion Baht schemes, and all with no appearances in the budget or transparency?

Anyway, glad you got your oft repeated "revolving fund" phrase in there , even if you can't use the 700++ one anymore.................................

You are referring to the interview with the the ambassador of France with the "other" paper I guess.

I can't quote the article but I urge people to read it. I thought it was very positive for Thailand.

Sure, if you regard the European Union Countries banning all official trips to and from Thailand, reiterating the need for the "government" to return to democratic constitutional rule, with free and transparent elections to be held in October 2015, and that they would be keeping a close watch on developments, you could say it was..........................

"very positive for Thailand"..............................

Lol. I knew that guys like you would milk 1 sentence of the interview. Therefor I urge people to read the whole article.

One Sentence? I strongly urge you to read the whole article........................again.....................and slowly.

The quality of posts here just gets better and better, one xenophobe, a pointless reference to Yingluck, and an attempted link to the Rice Subsidy scheme.

All over the misguided comments of a military "spokesmen" who is totally unaware of the irony of the situation that finds him speaking on behalf of an organisation that cost Thailand $5.7 Billion US this year..........................

What on earth would we all do without your wise comments fabie?

Not have such a large number of accredited posts (in reply)?....................................