Valjean

A book is a good idea. I've much done this before in my DIY days (I'm DIY Retired). My ex-wife in the states believed there wasn't anything I couldn't build or fix. My Thai wife doesn't think I know anything. Of course they are both wrong...

Back on subject; the books idea is good. I've very busy right now but every successful project I've heard of the has had hands on supervision. Maybe I just need to make the time - before one of us gets a long time in a box in the ground.

thanks

I know this is a DIY forum and I'm looking for someone to do it - but I've gotten great electrical advice here before about a year and a half ago when I bought my house.

We still don't have the electric all sorted out and I've had it with the guys that my wife gets. Mother's boyfriend's friend. This morning I asked about the qualifications of the current guy fiddling with things "he works for the guy on the corner and did plumbing and electric for his office...". Anyway TIT and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this one.

Meanwhile the power isn't working in more and more places, fuses are tripping, I'm being told all the wiring needs to be replaced (which I doubt), we have a new outdoor water fountain which my four year old loves to plug and unplug without a GFI in sight, the pump isn't working and I've lost my hot water, wires are strung about so we're starting to look like a Thai utility pole - gives me the shudders to think about all of it.

I need to get someone in who can do a top to bottom assessment of the situation to get this in order. It's possible I can't afford to do everything at one time so I'd want someone who can give me the total plan with some reasonable phases - deal with life threatening situations first, hot water second and perhaps nice lighting last.

Does anyone know of a qualified electrician in Bangkok? I mean someone who has a business that does electrical work. An electrical contractor. Not a handy man. And not related to my wife in any way. (bless her heart)

Perhaps an alternative would be one of you farangs who is in fact a retired qualified electrician would could spend a day with me testing everything, getting a spec and a plan written up that could be inspected. Potentially I could have a very detailed electrical plan translated with all the specs, buy all the stuff myself so I know it's correct then get someone to do it. The current guy might be OK if I knew he was working to an approved plan. Let me know if anyone is interested. I wouldn't expect this pro bono or exchange for a few beers.

Thanks!

I'm in online but need to hire staff that are strong in English - and have smarts. I've got 8 Thai's now and the skills vary but overall more than sufficient English. I have found almost all of them via JobsDB. One I asked at a university and they gave me an excellent MBA candidate from an English program who has turned out to be a real rock in the org. I've also worked for a multi-national and managed a team of 20+ so I know what's out there.

You have to interview, interview and interview. If you are in a hurry you need luck. Thinking long term I'd outsource or freelance to get over an near term challenge and take your time to find and build a team. There are plenty of armchair quarterbacks here who haven't built and managed Thai teams. It's got it's challenges for sure but there are great people with good (fluent is harder to find) English skills.

PM me if you want (I don't know fashion),

Most of my farang friends own small businesses, some work for multi-nationals. Some are well off but most are in the middle, and a few at the struggling to build a business stage but doing interesting things. All are happy. I think this is for two reasons.

One is they are all busy doing things that interest them. Maybe some do well with sitting around but I think most people need to be active and engaged in something. Building something for tomorrow, learning something, helping someone. Doing something. I suspect part of the problem with many here is that they are doing nothing.

The other reason is that I have zero tolerance for negative attitudes and complaining - so if you're not happy I'm not interested in having you as a friend. Which doesn't mean I expect everyone to happy all the time and we all have bad times - but deep down happy people don't let the bad times get them down.

I'm sure you've thought of this but what the heck I'll toss it in. You're an IT guy and you say you like to be busy. I wonder if you could kill two birds with one stone and do freelance IT from the village. You'd be busy and make some extra money. There are plenty of sites; guru.com, elance.com and others. Or depending on your specialty there might be more targeted ones. I was looking at Spiceworks the other day and wonder if via that community you could do network management if that's your area. In the beginning perhaps it's less about the money and more about your sanity. You could bid low on projects just to get going. The freelance sites like guru.com rank you on references and projects so it's good to get a few under your belt.

There are also some interesting pockets of work I think someone could do well around SaaS. Take popular web services like Freshbooks, Zendesk, Basecamp, MailChimp - the list goes on. They all have APIs, widgets and such to connect with each other. I think there's a good market for both packaging up solutions and custom development. As many SMEs move their infrastructure to the cloud they will need help and the dependency of a local onsite IT guy is going to go down. You can be anywhere - even in the village.

Just a thought...

Another good idea Valjean, thanks. I was wondering if I could locate some IT work to do from here but hadn't searched the net yet. Appreciate the sites you mentioned, I'll check them out. But mostly I am very much a dinosaur now. I haven't programmed in years (Fortran , assembler, PL1, VB, C++, etc.) and my knowledge of pc systems and networking are woefully obsolete. I have developed web sites before, complete with internet commerce, but it has been seven years and that knowledge is also out of date. I could perhaps do a straightforward MS Access application but my VBA is stale too . I used to teach all this and more at a university but after doing project mgr/dir activities all the hands on stuff quickly got old. I'll still check out the sites you mentioned. Who knows, maybe somebody in a 5th world country somewhere needs some Fortran written ? I was an expert Fortran programmer for many years, but that was when 30 characters (bytes)/second modem (acoustic) speeds were blinding fast!

If your skills are narrow Google like crazy and see if you can find some active communities, forums like this, on those technologies or skill set. Then get active in that community. That can be a great way to have the odd project come your way because by being proactive you've established yourself as an expert.

For any Microsoft product that are active communities. Look up the Microsoft MVP program - these are the community experts. There are a zillion companies with Access/VBA apps. There are a lot of legacy apps around. I had a friend that made a lot of money with Y2K cleaning up Fortran code at banks, insurance companies and such. They all woke up, saw Y2K coming and not enough people knew how to deal with the old code.

Find something that interest you, find the online communities, become a leader and active like you are here. Things might happen. If not you had some fun online hours on a subject you enjoy other than life in Thailand.

Best of luck to you.

We have quite a bit of land in a village just outside Chaiyaphum. We are going to build an house on it next year. Not a big one and it will do for a weekend retreat. I don't know if it's because i haven't got my home comforts there but I go stir crazy if i'm in the village for more than 2 days.

There are a few farangs not too far away but I'm a towny, so i don't think village life will ever be for me.

I may be quite a bit like you bo. I love and miss the creature comforts I had grown used to back home. If I had more income I wouldn't have as much of a problem with boredom as I do now. I'd buy a nice bike, a sat dish to get English TV (now we watch only Thai television, every night - but that's for another thread!). I'd also a/c the complete house, not just the bedroom, buy a overstuffed leather chair and ottoman, and maybe soup up a car engine in a hobby car. Yes, more comforts and toys would help a lot, but the days of buying anything I wanted are long gone I'm afraid.

I'm sure you've thought of this but what the heck I'll toss it in. You're an IT guy and you say you like to be busy. I wonder if you could kill two birds with one stone and do freelance IT from the village. You'd be busy and make some extra money. There are plenty of sites; guru.com, elance.com and others. Or depending on your specialty there might be more targeted ones. I was looking at Spiceworks the other day and wonder if via that community you could do network management if that's your area. In the beginning perhaps it's less about the money and more about your sanity. You could bid low on projects just to get going. The freelance sites like guru.com rank you on references and projects so it's good to get a few under your belt.

There are also some interesting pockets of work I think someone could do well around SaaS. Take popular web services like Freshbooks, Zendesk, Basecamp, MailChimp - the list goes on. They all have APIs, widgets and such to connect with each other. I think there's a good market for both packaging up solutions and custom development. As many SMEs move their infrastructure to the cloud they will need help and the dependency of a local onsite IT guy is going to go down. You can be anywhere - even in the village.

Just a thought...

It would be nice if you guys could post some pictures of your villages and your rural lives.

Here are pictures and some thoughts on the Sukhothai village life

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2007/0...apital_the.html

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2007/0...ng-with-th.html

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2007/1...house.html.html

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2007/09/music-thai.html

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2007/0...ears_week_.html

and a somewhat Traditional Thai wedding photos

http://suppawat.multiply.com/photos/album/85

And a little about a village near Roi Et

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2006/0...e_aga.html.html

http://derekbrn.typepad.com/bangkok/2005/0...muuba.html.html

We have a home in Bangkok and one upcountry in Sukhothai which is a fair size town with an expat community. I've spent a lot of time there - and I would not want to be there full time. If I could relocate my business there that would make a big difference but still I like being in the city. Here in Bangkok we have a house close to everything and yet back up our soi it's quieter than the village. There's just more to do and a wider range of friends for me.

If I was retired perhaps I'd go back and forth more but I don't think full time. A little of the Thai family and village life goes a long way for me.

My advice (worth two cents if you're lucky):

Get a hobby fast and if you find yourself hitting the bottle before lunch that should be a warning sign.

You might also wander down to the local school and help out with some English tutoring. It's always welcome and could help you feel more a part of things so when you walk around people wave and accept you more.

Also if you don't exercise take that up, it will get you out of the house and you'll feel better and better about yourself. Sitting around is very dangerous in so many ways.

Good luck and stay sane!

That is great advice (thank you also, offset). The wife's sister is a kindergarten teacher so I have an in. Getting a work permit may be tough but the few baht isn't important anyway.

You are dead right about the dangers of sitting around. One thinks too much. I am also an IT guy and you know how occupied IT keeps you. I was constantly busy for 42 years until I had to abruptly retire two years ago. It is a huge adjustment, and I have a long way to go.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I know there's been discussion here about the risks of doing volunteer work without a work permit - you could search. But I find it really, really hard to believe that just stopping in at the local school, checking in with the principal and getting to know some teachers, that someone is going to bother you. Especially if you have family inside. Maybe if you started teaching classes and some teacher felt like you took their job - OK maybe. But sitting around a table after school and helping kids, or helping out a teacher in a class once a week - I find it really hard to believe there's a serious risk in doing that.

I go to the Bangkok school for the blind and hang out some afternoons with the kids - sometimes they have structured homework I help with and other times the older ones just like to chat in English. In a situation like that it's hardly "work", more social, and I'm sure your local school would be happy to have you do the same.

Since you're an IT guy their computer lab might need help to. There's been a big push to put PCs in rural school but experience around the world would tell us that 30%+ of them don't work after awhile. A school lab is one of the most hostile computing environments because kids are curious and no one is there to really manage the IT. Just getting some PCs up and working and teaching some PC skills might also be appreciated.

We have a home in Bangkok and one upcountry in Sukhothai which is a fair size town with an expat community. I've spent a lot of time there - and I would not want to be there full time. If I could relocate my business there that would make a big difference but still I like being in the city. Here in Bangkok we have a house close to everything and yet back up our soi it's quieter than the village. There's just more to do and a wider range of friends for me.

If I was retired perhaps I'd go back and forth more but I don't think full time. A little of the Thai family and village life goes a long way for me.

My advice (worth two cents if you're lucky):

Get a hobby fast and if you find yourself hitting the bottle before lunch that should be a warning sign.

You might also wander down to the local school and help out with some English tutoring. It's always welcome and could help you feel more a part of things so when you walk around people wave and accept you more.

Also if you don't exercise take that up, it will get you out of the house and you'll feel better and better about yourself. Sitting around is very dangerous in so many ways.

Good luck and stay sane!

I found UOB more flexible and better terms than Bangkok Bank

Failed State in relationship to what? How do we actually measure that in the modern world? I would put these things as yard sticks:

1) quality of life for the majority (covers a lot of things that are hard to measure)

2) sustainable economy (meaning provides for presents needs without impairing needs of future generations)

3) rule of law established

4) democracy (true democracy)

Short answer: Yes.

Yes good points, so the US is also a failed state then, or will be shortly.

Perhaps all states are in a process of decline and will eventually fail. Like groups, they form, storm, norm and perform, then they adjourn and mourn, after which they transform.

The Thai state is very young - only since 1932, when Pridi and Phibun led a coup against absolute monarchy. A stable democratic form of government couldn't be maintained and military dictatorship became the norm until after 1973, when a series of elected governments came and went, with coups d'etat punctuating the period up to the early 90s. Performance has been patchy since then and Thaksin's was seen as the most energetic government. However, his norm (Thailand Inc and Shincorp hegemony) conflicted with that of the power elite (and many other people, especially in Bangkok and the South), so that government was "adjourned" by the 2006 coup. There is considerable mourning among the beneficiaries of the Thaksin regime, but much hostility to him and his government by others. New groups (PAD, UDD, Friends of Newin) have formed and would like to storm, but are not able to agree on norms; hence, Thailand is unable to perform in the way a stable group or state should.

The divisions seem irreconcilable, but the state has not reached "failed" status, simply an inability to function in keeping with its resources and potential. If it continues to be unable to norm and perform, a new group will form that will bring things together. Perhaps led by another Sarit - a saviour from Isaan, who will combine the backing of the army and the rural poor, but who will co-opt Chinese money, the Thai elite and the organizational sweep of the Democrat Party.

(The cases against Thaksin will be dropped on account of ill health and he will be allowed to return to Thailand to spend his last days, even if there are rather a lot of them. The new government will be sufficiently dictatorial and potentially brutal that PAD, UDD and others will heed the warnings and adopt a low profile.)

Even if Thailand stumbles it won't fail. Despite the obvious weaknesses in its schools and universities it has enough sufficiently well educated people to innovate, maintain and develop a productive society. There is enough money in Chinese hands and Thais know they have to fix their problems themselves. No benevolent outsider is going to ride in and they can't continue to rely on wise and paternal father-figures. They have nowhere to go. Everywhere outside Thailand is strange to Thais. There are no other Thai-speaking nations. Even the Lao, who are closest, don't want them. Before long there will be a catalyst and a catharsis. We'll hold on to our hats for a while, then a new process of political and civic forming, norming, etc. will be worked out.

Sorry for the rant. It just turned out that way.

Great post. I hadn't ever thought of the form, storm, norm and perform progression (which I've seen with teams over and over) but it is very applicable. It's hard for any team or organization, much less a country, to see the light in the form and storm stage. I'd agree also, and one reason I think both the red and yellow protest are good, is that Thai's need so get out and fight for what they believe in and make it happen themselves - not looking for another to do it. It's a messy process but it will be a better society that has leaned how to disagree, how to fight and how to take the long view when you lose to live to fight another day - and how to win with humility. Let's home the norming stage comes soon.

Thanks again for a thoughtful post.

Well, we disagree.

Personally I don't think universal law and order are in place.

Personally I don't think Thailand has universal suffrage.

Personally I don't think Thailand is an honest or trustworthy place, either in government, bureaucracy, or judiciary, and the evidence for that is overwhelming and beyond question.

Personally I don't think the Thai education system is socially serviceable or useful.

Personally I don't think the standard of living in rural areas has kept up with the standard of living among the elites at all (in other words the gap between the haves and the have-nots has grown wider throughout the past 60 years). rather, it would be true to say that the standard of living of a select few Thais has improved very satisfactorily (for them).

Personally I do think that Thailand is on the verge of becoming a failed state, for all of the above reasons, and I am very far from being alone in this, in fact one prominent person spoke recently about the country 'falling in to ruin' as I recall. The Thais who are ruining Thailand are ruining it for all people who live here, Thais and ex-pats alike, this is the context of my previous comment. Thankfully, it is only a minority of Thais who are determined to maintain their present privileged positions who are doing the ruining, and (so far as I can see) are making a violent overthrow pretty much inevitable, but these are the ones with influence at the moment.

To think that any of the above is not true is (I believe) to fail to see what is blindingly obvious. But that is only my opinion.

Good post.

It's not that these things aren't true to a greater or lesser extent (if you accept the subjective nature of the comments) in Thailand - it's that that 3 out of 4 of them probably apply to 80% of the countries on the planet. The world's actually a pretty chaotic place and I'm amazed it's all working as well as it is. It's just a warped view to judge the bottom 80% from a top 20% perspective.

and in many ways I could apply 3 to the US;

Highest incarceration rates in the world (I think I right about "highest" but none the less VERY high) along with capital punishment, including of crimes committed by children. Meanwhile some of the highest crime and murder rates in the developed, if not entire world. It's a justice system that let's rich people go free and poor black teenagers go in for life. And executes black people our of proportion to their population of the convicted. (perhaps this starts to call into question #2 which I wasn't going to challenge).

We elected George W when Al Gore got more votes. :-)

Compared to our peers, and more importantly China and India, the US education is a chronic under-performer - especially in math and science. We are excellent at somethings but key IT talent is either imported or the work exported these days on a growing scale.

This isn't to bash the US - just to point out that in different ways most countries struggle with these issues. You need to keep context and perspective.

Here's some more data to chew on. Just came in the recent American Chamber of Commerce T-AB magazine "How Thailand's IT Sector Stacks Up" - all copyrights noted for them. It's based on several different global surveys and like a lot of other data shows Thailand doing well in some respects and not so well in others.

I'm in IT and this ring true to me. The talent pool of IT and developers is not as strong in quantity or quality as the market would like. There is some work I do off-shore in the US for high prices that I'd love to be doing here.

Enjoy

How_Thailand_s_IT_Sector_Stacks_up.pdf

I just don't see the facts for "failed state" at all. I also don't buy at all "nothing has changed in 20 years". The facts don't back that up.

Fair enough, but the criteria for 'failed state' status were given, and you have addressed different criteria, some quite subjectively.

Then you compare Thailand with other Asian economies and note that it doesn't stack up so you compare it with Africa instead.

Nothing wrong with an opinion, but the stats you quote don't always support your covering comment. Thailand's corruption rating for example is among the worst in the world, not ' slightly above average' as you state. Haven't had time yet to have a look at the other links you posted - but thanks for posting them, I have an open mind so I will follow through in that spirit.

Thanks for the opinion, you went to the trouble of getting supporting numbers so it wasn't the usual polyanna stuff. And you didn't get abusive either, which puts you several steps ahead of the game compared with some of the others who just can't seem to grasp what adult discussion is about...

Thanks.

For Curruption Thailand is #59 out of 159 countries. So 58 are better and 99 are worse. Here's how Thailand ranks with Asia.

# 5 Singapore: 9.4

# 15 Hong Kong: 8.3

# 32 Taiwan: 5.9

# 39 Malaysia: 5.1

# 40 Korea, South: 5

# 59 Thailand: 3.8

# 77 Laos: 3.3

# 78 China: 3.2

# 107 Vietnam: 2.6

# 118 Philippines: 2.5

# 131 Cambodia: 2.3

# 138 Indonesia: 2.2

# 156 Burma: 1.8

I think the Thailand to Africa or Middle East is important because overall Asia, despite what we in the west might see as democratic challenges, has done a far better job of growing their economies and bettering the life of their people than Africa or Middle East. So it's a perspective. A better apples to apples is Asia to Eastern Europe and perhaps S.America.

I don't have the time to do it but some wonky guy could take that list into Excel and give a regional average for some of these numbers.

Aid as a percentage of GDP might be an interesting indicator of failed state. Who's on welfare? Thailand is #106 of 129 - so 105 countries, including Indonesia and Philippines get more aid as a percentage.

Let's look at the original questions:

1. [A country in which the] central government so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its territory; non-provision of public services; widespread corruption and criminality; refugees and involuntary movement of populations; and sharp economic decline

• The Thai government has complete control over it's territory. There is that little border temple thing with Cambodia and the troubles in the south (which are part of a pandemic problem)
  
• Corruption is a problem - but as I indicate above Thailand is about the norm
  
• There is the issue of stateless people here - that' for sure is a nagging problem, but not at a mass scale
  
• The economy has contracted here and the estimates I see for 2009 are 0 to -3% growth, largely driving by drops in exports (down 20%) due to the world economy. This is not as good as other SEA countries but in line with a lot of others
  

2. ... a state that has been rendered ineffective (i.e., has nominal military/police control over its territory only in the sense of having no armed opposition groups directly challenging state authority; in short, the "no news is good news" approach) and is not able to enforce its laws uniformly because of high crime rates, extreme political corruption, an extensive informal market, impenetrable bureaucracy, judicial ineffectiveness, military interference in politics, cultural situations in which traditional leaders wield more power than the state over a certain area but do not compete with the state, or a number of other factors.

• 
  Thailand has a strong central government - there are no tribal leaders with more power over the central government like say Pakistan. The judiciary is a bit hard to fathom at times but they do seem to enforcing laws on Red and Yellow alike. They did rule against a very powerful ex-PM. If you take a cynical view of things this might have a ring of truth but if you look at this critically in relation to real failed states Tailand isn't close to being out of control.
  

3. A state could be said to "succeed" if it maintains, in the words of Max Weber, a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within its borders. When this is broken (e.g., through the dominant presence of warlords, paramilitary groups, or terrorism), the very existence of the state becomes dubious, and the state becomes a failed state.

Not even close. The Thai government, red or yellow or military

• has a clear "monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within its borders". The protests and unrest we have seen are IMHO very healthy - people should be out in the stre
  

ets when they feel aggrieved and overall the governments have done OK - a coup notwithstanding.

Come on people. Have a cup of coffee and look at the facts. This is an emerging country with all the problems you'd expect. In some ways Thailand is doing very well, and others not so well but the report card is anything from a failed state as defined by those 3 definitions.

Does Thailand does attract a large ammount of Farang Failures ? Yes !

Agreed. This is certainly true.

Thailand as a whole, a failed state ? No!

I am interested in hearing why you say that. Can your opinion be supported by facts? You have a series of definitions to work with and your only able to give a one-word answer, which although clearly your own opinion (to which you are perfectly entitled) is hardly persuasive.

Here are some facts:

Corruption - this data show Thailand to be a little worse than average http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-...ment-corruption

Education:

Above the average on years of education: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

Above the average for literacy: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

Infant mortality rate - much better than average: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_rat_...000-live-births

Thailand is a emerging market economy. This is not a mature rich country like most of us come from. There is a long way to go. But it's had some very solid progress and economic growth the past 20 years. It's made political progress, abet some times two steps forward, one step backwards at times.

I'm not at all saying that there aren't serious institutional and structural issues for Thailand to face but if you look at most of it's peers the past 10-20 years it's done OK. It perhaps doesn't look so good compared to Asian peers such as Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong and other 7 dragons, but compare to averages in the Middle East or Africa in terms of improved standards of living, GDP, technology, health, democratic development, freedoms, etc. and it's all in all a pretty good record compared to peers (not to mature rich countries). And compared to 3 of it's 4 neighbors over 10-20 years it's also quite a record.

I just don't see the facts for "failed state" at all. I also don't buy at all "nothing has changed in 20 years". The facts don't back that up.

It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

With all due respect, that's your opinion and I think it's baloney. Obama has demonstrated "leadership" by handing control over to Nancy Pilosi to develop the $1,000,000,000,000 "stimulus" plan which included over 8000 stupid projects like building tunnels so turtles can cross under a road! O promised he would go line by line through a bill to strike out unnecessary spending. Was anybody listening? Spending only what we can afford is a failed idea? Not wanting to burden children for generations to come is a bad idea?

As for right-wing "failed ideas", I think Ronald Reagan had more than a few ideas which far from failed. Personally I think the left-wingers hold the banner for failed ideas, too many to mention here.

I won't get you started on Health Care, you don't get me started on right wing vs left wing debate. BTW, evidently you subscribe to the James Carville, divide and conquer by demonizing the opposition philosophy.

Let's agree to disagree and not have a US political spat in a Thai forum. Carville? Good entertainment but I wouldn't call myself a follower by any means.

I have had used books shipped here from Amazon but it does depend on the seller. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my Kindle to arrive (yes they don't ship here...)

I think this is way off base. Go live in Sudan or Somalia and I'm sure it would make the picture clearer what "failed" is. Problems? Sure, and it's frustrating to watch at times. It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

Let's not forget the challenges our respective countries have had as we matured. 75 into US history we had a civil war that at today's population would equate to about 2,500,000 million deaths. Or the Great Depression, or slavery and that continuing legacy. How about we look at incarceration rates in the US and ask about that failed system? Don't get me going on the US health care..

And I'll let other critique their home countries but Germany has had it's problems in it's not to distant past. How many governments has Italy gone through? Japan's "lost decade". The list can go on.

The past decades Thailand has averaged GDP growth in excess of most mature markets. It has high literacy rates and decent health care. And a political system that's struggling to get it's legs but it will in time. Maybe 10 years and maybe 25. The problems here are similar to other countries in similar stages of development - for instance most of Eastern Europe and former Soviet republics. The process isn't always pretty, there are lots of institutional challenges, but step back and it's progress.

The failed states chart on FP was very interesting - Thailand is right in the middle with a lot of other countries that sure as heck could be doing better with better leadership and institutions. And I wish it was. But a failed state when looked at objectively compared to peers around the world? I don't think the facts support that.

Hot off the press from Slate and a perspective from the US

"Last year, my boyfriend started a prestigious job halfway across the country, and I moved with him. In the year that we have lived together, I have discovered that he has some shocking habits. He smokes pot every day. On days when he is not working, he will get stoned and watch television all day. He often drinks to excess, which has resulted in him receiving a DWI and spending a night in jail. He also frequents strip clubs. He asked me not to come on a company retreat because he wanted to go to clubs while he was away. However, we still have a lot of fun together, and I know that in his retarded, selfish way, he adores me, and I love the big jerk. We've talked extensively about marriage. I've brought up his behavior, and he says that he's simply enjoying his youth and will settle down when the time comes. (We're almost 30.) Also, he makes a lot of money and is slated to make much more. I know that sounds shallow, but with him I'd be able to live comfortably for the rest of my life. His salary has also allowed me to take a low-paying job I love. Without him, I would have to live with roommates until I'm 45 (a fate worse than death). I'd also have to start all over again in the dating world, which is depressing. Is it spineless to stay with a lovable cad just because he'll provide for me? Or am I morally obligated to go back home and return to working long hours at a job I hate while having to share a bathroom with roommates?"

Second Dear Prudie on the page: http://www.slate.com/id/2228493/

Is it just me that can see with a little editing this would be a great troll post about a relationship in Thailand?

It might help to step back a bit and take a broader and much longer view of relationships. Across cultures and time marriage and relationships have always been primary about economics and relationships beyond the couple (politics, families, village connections). Marriage as a relationship based on love is a very new mostly Western concept. This isn't about Thailand - this is the way things are (or at least were).

My 83 mother, told me that when she was a poor Ohio girl she had a goal; "I wanted a briefcase, not a lunch pail". And she married a nice middle class boy who was an officer in WW2 and who went on to be one of those quintessential hard working, hard-saving, briefcase carrying "millionaire next door types". Marriage was her step-up and she took it while brothers and sisters remained janitors and such.

The fact that it might be still more common in many parts of the world than the west today, and more openly talked about, doesn't make it either new or shocking. What is perhaps more interesting, if not shocking, are the challenges us is the fragile nature of love as a relationship foundation in a world where the economic order of the sexes is getting turned on it's head.

Here's a good review of "Marriage, A History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage". Some food for thought.

Mex - Talcos and Salsa up near emporium near soi 22 : vist the western food section on TV for more info.

Italian - recently went (and thoroughly enjoyed) Rossano's on Suk 19 as it turns the corner to Asok, not cheap but very good.

French - farangset friends of mine speak of another good French restuarant on Soi 19 at the Sofitel, name escapes me.

Continental - too many to choose from - at the Landmark I do eat regularly at the outdoor patio - great lunch special monday to friday.

Mex - try Coyote. You can find them on the web. One off Silom and one on Suk (around 33). Very good Tex-Mex considering you're in Bangkok.

I don't remember the name but I went to an Italian in Siam Paragon once, not the food basement, but first floor to the back there are a few places. It was pretty good - and quiet.

It may not be worth your trouble but I set up a Thai and HK company (Singapore would have worked just as well). Thai company meets all of my work permit and tax requirement - and I have Thai employees so really it's a must have. HK has advantages for a number of reasons that made me not want everything to flow through Thailand. If nothing else just easier with less paperwork...

Putting aside WP, legal and tax issues HK or Singapore is a better bet - but those are huge issues to "put aside" especially if you want to stay here.

Established patterns would tell us that x% of the 62% #3 "no" group will in fact cheat - and they are the one group where that term most applies. This was an interesting bit of factoids http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

It seems in the US that the ones who like to preach morality the hardest, fall the hardest to their weakness. (I feel a bad pun was in there).

On a thread like this all the look down your nose, holier than thou pontificating about the lack of value, validity, love, or what have you that someone else has in a relationship different than their own does, as always, say so much more about the person who's making the statement than the one it's directed at. Inner confidence in who you are and what you have seems to be inversely proportional to the need to degenerate others different than you.

From Thai friends I'd learned a slang phrase that I understood to mean "my bottom is sore". I didn't understand this as really crude, just a little but OK for casual usage. Once at a conference in front of 200+ Thai's I used the phrase, because we'd been sitting for a day and a half and the shocked faces was amazing. What I learned is this is the expression for what two gay guys do to each other - and is very crude slang for just having a tired back side. At least a dozen people came up to me after that and said "never, never say that again!".

Be careful of the Thai you learn from Thai friends while drinking...

And I think it's a quite common mistake when taking about "how many children do you have" to say "song luuk" (two balls) and not "luuk song khon" (two children) and get a lot of giggles until someone explains. At least I do have two children. I can imagine the sadness if you only have one, and the amazement if more than two! :-)

They'll be looking until the day they die..................same as me

It depends on how bad things have gone in your life in the past. I am 25 years old and I have been sued 2 times and lost $50000.

All I want now is $1200 a month income so I can sit on the beach and relax with minimal stress. For me its not sitting on the beach that is so fun, its what I am not doing (work,rat race,family) that is so soothing.

Do you really think that you can spend the next 50 or 60 or even more years of your life sitting on a beach and relaxing? After a few months most of us would be bored out of our coconuts.

The happiest times in my life have been the times when I have been the busiest, but still had enough time for relaxing pursuits. I suspect that most of us would be healthier, and happier, living a good healthy mix of work and play.

I hate working with a passion. What are you doing at work that is so exsiting ? People that get bored don't have enough hobbies. I have a list of hobbies a mile long.

So if you won the lottery you would still go to work because you would get bored ?

You know I might - and I wouldn't have thought that years ago. And not because I couldn't find something to do. It's deeper than that. I spent many years working at Microsoft with hundreds of people from Bill Gates on down who had more than won the lottery. They kept working, for different reasons - and worked hard. Perhaps I could have checked out here but instead I started a business. I love the work, I love the intellectual challenges, the creative challenges. I like building a team and seeing them come together. I like creating opportunity and watching young people grow and learn skills. I like keeping myself sharp and healthy in mind, body and spirit and for me work is part of that. I also have a young son here and I want him to grow up to see his Dad working hard so he learns the value of hard work. What I changed in my life was to design this work, my company, to be my dream job. So every day, even if it's long or stressful, is my dream.

My tailor here said to me once, pointing to his 75 year old dad who insisted on coming to work every day, "Work is God's gift to man". For me I think he's right.

I would agree with many that letting go a "stuff collection" seems to come to many who come here. I have less and yearn for less and that's a nice feeling.