In Town

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Well, we don't know there is anything wrong with the poll. It may be perfect. But what we do know is that there was a very high non-response rate. High enough to mean the data presented is meaningless in determining actual public preference. I might think that PT supporters would be more likely to self-censor, but the real point it that I cannot know that from this poll. It could be that 75% support the Democrats, or it could be that 70% support PT, or it could be anything in between. We just cannot know.

This is one of the problems with polling in Thailand, as this data is presented as meaningful, whereas anyone with the faintest familiarity with statistics knows this cannot be.

Most polls are plus or minus a few percent but I have a feeling in this one the swing could be in the double digits.

Margin of error is one thing, but non-response it completely different. We can calculate margin of error. If it is say 5%, then the two numbers 49% and 54% are statistically equal. That's why it makes no sense to say something like candidate X is leading Y 43% to 41%.

Now we can really understand what a farce these polls are......a complete fiction devised in someone's small, immature mind!!

Yep, I fully agree, these polls are a crock of s##T.

But..............................I bet if the poll went the other way and PTP were the most popular there would be lots of red/PTP supporters with small, immature minds all over it like a cheap suit, agreeing with the results.

You people are so fickle.

Well, we don't know there is anything wrong with the poll. It may be perfect. But what we do know is that there was a very high non-response rate. High enough to mean the data presented is meaningless in determining actual public preference. I might think that PT supporters would be more likely to self-censor, but the real point it that I cannot know that from this poll. It could be that 75% support the Democrats, or it could be that 70% support PT, or it could be anything in between. We just cannot know.

This is one of the problems with polling in Thailand, as this data is presented as meaningful, whereas anyone with the faintest familiarity with statistics knows this cannot be.

Its important to recognise that only about 55% of voters expressed a preference. That means 45% said "don't know" or refused to answer. Probably most of those do have a preference but felt uncomfortable expressing it. Because of the high non-response rate, the poll is actually meaningless in determining preferences, but does put a floor on support (i.e. at least 25% support PT and at least 29% the Democrats.

A strong plurality of Thais voted for Peau Thai, which is then overthrown in a coup, and now a majority of Thais are happier than they were before? Thais (or polls) are strange.

He has stymied any attempt at reform within the party. He believes he is the smartest guy in Thailand and cannot understand why everyone doesn't see this simple truth. If he leads the democrats into the next election they will surely lose big time.

^^what a moronic comment.

If you are on one side of politics in Thailand, you have complete and total freedom to march, protest and express your views - even if that is hatred toward other people.

If you are on the other side of politics in Thailand, ... different story...

Thanks tb, you have just confirmed that every single comment you have ever posted on TVF is a "moronic comment".

(not that I needed confirmation)

You have always taken the opposite view to anyone who dared to oppose you regarding political parties, terrorist organizations and military juntas.

Never once have you made an admission that your side may have been wrong about anything, not one concession, ever.

............................"even if that is hatred toward other people"...............................

Does that include killing men, women and children in the streets ? You know, the ones who are on the other side of politics ................

Nobody is perfect, but your side always goes for equivalence, excusing the bad actions of your side by saying "the redshirts do it too". Wrong is wrong, evil is evil. Gunning down unarmed civilians is wrong. And extra-judicial killings in the drug war were also wrong, but one doesn't excuse the other.

Thai people are autonomous beings, not Thaksin robots. Regardless of your wishes, many Thais yearn for self-government and equal rights--rights you enjoy your but would deny to them

What election? Can't see one being held in the next couple of hundred years. When Prayuth dies his children will inherit the country and so on, as is done in Nth Korea.

How many military coups Thailand had in the past?

How many Thai military governments last a couple of hundred years?

He'll repair the worst things the next 1-3 years and than the politicians can ripp off the country again.

You have such charming faith in the military. They have done so well governing Thailand in that past that everyone here breathed a great sigh of relief when they reluctantly agreed to undertake this onerous burden once again. Their selfless sacrifice is admired by all.

Why wait? In Britain losing politicians resign.

All things take time but it has started

Maybe you could start with listing the achievements, other than removing beach chairs, but I'm afraid it gonna be a very short list.

1. Corruption is the first thing that the general is tackling.The ex head of CBI in prison now and a few others. 3 ex MPs were impeached last week with criminal proceedings to follow.

2. Reclaiming land from forest encroachment is underway.

3. Jet skies from some beaches in Phuket.

4. Overpricing of lottery tickets.

5. A serious effort to stop Human trafficking started this month.

6. Overpricing by private hospitals is being dealt with

That is a short list but I think these efforts are worthy of note there are many more.

Now can you or anyone name a PM that has done more.

So from your list only point 1 was achieved, and we all know that there are other reasons behind that ( which should not be discussed), while all other 5 points are "underway" or have failed so far.

So no achievements so far.

NEXT

But you still can't name a better PM?

By any objective measure Thaksin was a better PM. Elected by the people, 30 baht health scheme (a model for health care reformers worldwide), rapid economic growth in rural areas, etc

"We must eradicate human trash ['kaya manut'] from this country," he said."

To Hitler trash was the Jews.

To Putin trash was the gays.

To Stalin trash was the intellectuals.

To Mao trash was the middle class.

To Prayut trash is EVERY free-thinking Thai.

And to your hero Thaksin - trash is anyone not a Shiniwatra.

Why is everything for you guys about Thaksin. Have you no other thought in your head on this issue? Is everything that occurs in Thailand either for or against Thaksin for you? Does opposition to Thaksin justify anything in your mind? Just asking...

Its very common for the Thai elite to refer to their political opponents as animals or garbage. Its a process called dehumanisation, and is very worrying, as it is a necessary precursor to genocide. I'm not saying that is going to happen here, but it happened next door, so it is not out of the realm of possibility.

Disappointed, the Filipino was better, he hit more ; the three judges were American ?

BTW, not a beautiful fight and a shame for boxing

I agree, Manny was the better fighter and attacked all through the fight. The American just kept running away all through the fight. The fix of the decade it should have been billed as.

No, I don't think it was fixed. Its just the way boxing is scored. A light jab is scored the same as a solid right. So we see aggression and hard hitting and think, like in the real world, that guy should be the winner. But in boxing you can win by running and tapping, and Mayweather has 5 inches reach on Manny, so could do a lot of tapping. I remember watching Leonard/Hagler and it was a similar situation, with Leonard out-pointing Marvin, but no suggestion he had actually beaten him. That was a great fight, by the way. This was a dog.

Fight of the century? Ha ha ha.... Sure glad I didn't spend $20,000 for that drek.

does anyone know the CTH channel? Or Channel 7 in HD on CTH?

def: multi-colour shirts = yellow shirts on wash day.

I am also a little aware, being in a gun club, about ballistics. There, again, should have been exit marks for the bullets in the immediate vicinity.....ground, wall, pillar, building, etc.

There are still plenty of bullet scars there, all from the direction of the military.

Yes, everyone knows the army shot him, and the red shirts. Only the court is afraid to say that.

Maybe "everyone" can prove it in court then?

Cannot be proved in a Thai court, mate. How long have you lived here?

Yes, everyone knows the army shot him, and the red shirts. Only the court is afraid to say that.

The protests were eventually called off after the Redshirt leadership surrendered to authorities on 19 May 2010.

Surrendered? That's not how I remember it, and I was here at the time.

Also, at the time, I recall reading about a number of foreign journalists who were permitted into the red shirt camp and who interviewed and documented what these 'men in black' were up to. Whatever happened to them and their documentary footage? Could be quite revealing.

The PTP did everything in its power to suppress all evidence of the involvement of Taksin supported blackshirts

Wow! The PTP controlled neither the government nor the army. That guy Thaksin must have super powers. Maybe they should make a movie.

As I've mentioned before, there were a few armed people among the red shirts. We know that because of the grenades shot at the MRT and the one that wounded Chandler. I don't deny that. What I do deny is that there was active conflict between opposing armed forces, or that shooting by red shirt provoked the crackdown, I also deny that it can ever be right or justified to end a demonstration by killing people.

You argue that the military only responded after coming under fire from the red shirts, and that the people they killed (many with head shots) were armed militants. I dispute that.

ostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

Thank you for linking to that post by Nick. He had a very clear view of the violence and reading all of his work will clarify many issues for you and other posters on TV.

He just destroyed your argument that there were no grenades thrown and no violence from redshirts.

Clearly you haven't read Nick, who actually destroys your argument.

SNo all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

o, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Even our local Photo Journalist Nick Nostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

Thank you for linking to that post by Nick. He had a very clear view of the violence and reading all of his work will clarify many issues for you and other posters on TV.

Also, just to clarify, the wounding of Chandler Vandergraft occurred well after the crackdown commence, so should not be seen as its proximate cause.

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Well, if anyone can edit it, why don't you fix it so we will all know the truth?

Goebbels would probably prefer people who defend the use of the military to control civilian populations rather than those that oppose it.

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

You haven't been paying attention?

BANGKOK: -- Five members of the so-called mysterious “Men in Black” who battled with troops at Kok Wua intersection near the Democracy Monument during the red-shirt protests in April 2010 resulting to the death of Romklao Phuvatham have been arrested by police.

In case you haven't, or would rather have history rewritten, this is what the "Men in Black" were up to on that day:

Hilarious photoshop fail!