Morden

Wheres Alba?

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Africa. Full name 'Albasinya'!

Or maybe it's a lady in Glasgow?

People with little sense of self tend to be whatever you want them to be, while they are with you, and I wanted her to be little sexpot daughter.  It was unbelievably, incredibly, intensely, fantascially good at times.

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Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by that, please?

Have a good time yourself - and remember to celebrate St George's Day too!

thank you all for the replys. even the not so helpful ones. im glad we have this forum here for things like this.

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My earlier reply was intended to be helpful and I hope that it proves so to be. You come from quite a different world and I suggest that you do no more than quietly indicate that you would be willing to help if asked. My own experience is that Thais are quite capable of finding and closing deals without outside help.

I'm sorry if you thought me unhelpful. Sometimes when we ask for advice the answer is not what we would like to hear but that doesn't mean it's not good advice.

Why do you think it's a good idea for you to stick your nose in their business?  Rather than helping things along, a farang face slows things down and raises the price.  While your friends are dealing, grab a few beers and stay out of the way.

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Good advice! Why do some farang assume that Thais don't know what they are doing? The procedure for buying land in Thailand is quite different from the way that it's done in the 'states'. Apart from legal differences, the local culture requires an approach that a farang may not readily understand. I keep well away from this sort of thing within the family and wouldn't even consider pushing my self onto friends. If they want help, they will ask.

From my experience, Thais are shrewd negotiators and can manage quite well on their own.

It's the norm, I'm afraid, at least around Korat. You didn't mention the wc!

The solution?

1. Pay for an electric shower - but keep an eye on the electrical work, or

2. Get your own place and install a shower (but keep an eye on the electrical work), or

3. Check into a hotel for a while when things get too itchy - but check that the shower works before paying.

I'm afraid that I can't cope with either the loos or the cold water and so have never stayed at the folks' place long enough to need them!

Why do you think the leasehold route is not safe? Legal grounds or that the freeholder will send the boys around?

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The latter mainly. Even if the law takes much notice of a foreigner and his contract, he would ultimately have to rely on the goodwill of the freeholder. Perhaps in most cases there would not be a problem but I wouldn't risk money on a land lease and build a house on the land unless I was willing to lose it all.

I hate to sound cold, but it's really up to the Thais and how they want to run their country.  Our opinion and influence as foreigners count very little, except insofar as Thailand wants to appear respectable abroad.

If a foreigner has children or step-children living in Thailand then he would feel as responsible for their welfare as the rest of the family and would want know to something about the magnitude of the problem. He would be unlikely, I think, to regard it as a matter only for his Thai relatives.

I'm quite willing to accept that most abuse takes place within the family but, as an aware individual in that family I, for example, would keep my eyes open. My enquiry is about the risk of abuse away from the home in areas where the children are still allowed to wander at will. It seems, so far, that either there is no big problem or none of us has any kind of measure of its extent.

Getting cover for any pre-existing conditions is difficult. I have two suggestions:

1. If you work for a company that has its own employee insurance scheme, that insurance may not exclude pre-existing conditions.

2. Try some insurance brokers. There may be some specialist insurers or Lloyd's Syndicates that could help.

Enough slagging each other off. Seonai if you're really a writer then use your aquired skills to respond without profanity. This is a serious subject that needs serious discussion. If it can't be discussed maturly without flaming then its a waste of bandwidth and may as well be closed.

cv

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Thanks for that, cdnvic. I have started this thread because it is a serious subject and facts are hard to find. I would be disappointed if the thread was closed because of personal abuse.

What I would like is information about child abuse within the Thai culture. Like many other members, I think, I move in traditional Thai circles rather than the tourist or expat ones. We all know that sex tourists are active in Thailand but, 'though it's quite sickening, it was not the subject of my initial enquiry. Clearly, no sensible parent would allow a child to wander alone in Pataya. In a nutshell, are Thai children still safe out on their own in their villages or should their families keep tham on a tight reign?

I don't know the OP's area in LOS but I do know that land and building prices are increasing appreciably in popular areas. Wherever there are factories or tourists it will certainly be true. Building costs seem to have risen by about 10% during the last few months. Land prices close to Korat where factories are appearing are also on the increase. If there's much building going on in your area, prices are increasing.

Something else to bear in mind just at the moment is that the Baht is strong against the £ - I assume that you are from the UK, Muse. That might suggest that you should wait but I, personally, would expect the Baht to remain strong against the £ for the foreseeable future.

From my own experience, ISA's are pants. If you want to invest in the UK, speak first to and IFA. He isn't allowed to give you investment advice but he can show you what are your options.

My inclination would be to buy some land now if you can afford it. It will be in your lady's name of course. Land prices will probably increase by more than the cost of building a house. There's plenty of land left fallow in LOS so I doubt that any government official will even notice yours. If necessary, when the time comes you could always build a smaller house - most of your time will be spent outdoors in any case.

Good luck!

As I understand it, a company with a foreign minority shareholder may own up to 1 rai subject to the conditions already mentioned. Additionally, the company must invest something like the equivalent of £400,000 in approved Thai investments for up to five years. I have see the regulations in English but didn't keep track of where they were because it looked like a non-starter. I know that property developers, keen for the foreign £ OR $, will encourage us to set up non-trading companies but I don't expect that they will rush to Farang's aid when the government comes knocking on the door.

The best advice that I have had is to spend in LOS only what you are prepared to lose. Land cannot be bought by a foreigner and a lease, in practical terms, is not safe enough to protect the lessee who has rashly built a house on the land.

Endure,

I think that we are fairly clear about abuse by white males in Thailand. It seems to be a general view that there are such people in the country although I can't say that I have witnessed anything obviously out of order and I certainly haven't seen any other proof. I also accept that it is all too easy for a situation to be misunderstood and a male with a child be under suspicion just because he is with a child. It can happen anywhere and does. It's also sad that decent guys have to be very wary even around their own children because there are others all too willing to make accusations. It can happen to women too; a tv tv personality in the UK was actually arrested on suspicion of abuse when an idiot in a photo processing lab passed pictures of her child in the bath to the police.

However, what I am trying to get to in this thread is some clear idea as to whether abuse is a problem within the Thai community. My step children, for example, live in an area where farangs don't appear very often so they aren't a problem. I've seen no signs of abuse amonst any of the very happy children in that area. On the other hand, opportunity is ever-present and I don't think that the parents of those children are even aware of what might happen.

Endure, do you have an idea of what the situation might be within the Thai community? The impression I get from this thread and my own experience is that, for the present at least, there is probably less of a problem than there is in my own country. But what about the future?

For me there are two ways to go to Pattaya.

First, go by taxi so that you can stop when you want to. 1500 Baht for a full load of passengers.

The other way is any day that's not a public holiday!

1500 Baht and a few more for food and a drink is all that Pattaya will ever cost me. Once was enough!! But each to his own.

I can't agree that mutilation is a reasonable response to this offence. It would set society at the same level as the abusers and is not likely to dissuade someone driven by a perverted sexual urge. I do agree that some punishment would be reasonable and that the abuser should be kept away from children. It may be possible to help some abusers on the grounds that they too may have been victims of abuse in childhood. However, the protection of children is more important and some abusers seem to be beyond even wanting help.

There may be more that can be done to prevent abuse in the first place. Again, I don't know much about what is happening within Thai communities and that is what I want to find out. The Western way is to hide the problem and catch a few paedophiles from time to time to give the public the impression that something is being done. The reality in the West is:

1. Abuse within families goes mainly unreported. The reasons for this include the avoidance of shame, the possibility of losing the family income if the perpetrator is imprisoned, or simple and straightforward denial.

2. Systematic, organised abuse is carried out within the very institutions that are supposed to protect children. Even within schools, 'mild' abusers are moved quietly to a school in another area where, having got away with it, they may well become worse. In fact, even abuse that appears to an adult to be minor can be as devastating to the victim as more serious examples.

Thais tend to avoid making public anything that may shame them. Also, they have a great respect for authority, at least to the extent that they don't openly criticise it. These characteristics, I fear, leave the door open for abusers to do what they want with little fear of being exposed. A big farang dragging children around is fairly obvious and the fact that such people are still walking the streets makes me wonder just what goes in behind Thai doors.

It's sad indeed to read stories such as Noel's. Do they think that all farang men are abusers or do they suspect Thai men too?

Maybe they and we are missing the point. I must confess that, if I saw a farang, male or female, hanging around our children I would be there in a second. But farang are limited in numbers and fairly easily noticed. However, I wonder whether Thai are also culprits. Is there any evidence? I have none at all but I do wonder sometimes about the school soccer trips and the days spent at the wat. Maybe I just have a jaundiced Western eye.

The closed thread on Gary Glitter touched on a very worrying subject and I would welcome some information about what is going on.

In the UK, caring parents would not allow their young children to wander the streets and would want to know where they were every minute of the day. That's because there is a good chance that an opportunist paedophile might be looking for children to abduct. The same parents would also keep an eye and ear open to the relationships that their children had with with adult friends and relatives.

I have three step children in Thailand. They are allowed to wander as they wish around the village amongst friends and family. I respect the family's judgement and have not openly questioned this freedom even though it has bothered me a little.

So, how safe are children in Thailand? Have there been many publicised cases of abuse or abduction? Is there more risk in some areas than in others? Is it getting worse? What truth is there in the stories about child prostitution rings? I would welcome information and views about this very serious topic.

He must have liked it so much the first time around that he went back to earn more money repairing the damage he did the first time.

I don't wish anyone ill so lets' hope that he has more luck than the Brit who left his wife in Thailand to earn big bucks over there. I don't think his body has been found yet. Get back to Thailand safely, fellow member, and buy everyone a beer so that they will listen to your fascinating stories. But please don't come near me because 'gung ho' stuff is of no interest.

I see...I though that was a quality well spread among lots of men...well if all women are liars...I think i should change my mind about becoming a lesbian...

I was thinking of that possibility because I have been cheated from most of my partners... who were males

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Was Isaac telling the truth?

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what you think?

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He was human so I guess it's a 50/50 chance. In the case of a married Spanish male or a lesbian, the ratio may not be so well balanced!

Well, I thought that I had better watch so that I was as clued up as the mickeytakers that I shall undoubtedly meet over the next few days. I explained as best I could to the princess what she could expect to see - British humour, Thai lady, funny, mail-order - and we settled down to await the start of the programme. About 5 seconds into the Thai sketch the 'phone rang. I took it out of the room, sorted the call out quickly and returned to the tv to find that the sketch had finished. However, princess was sitting, arms folded and lips pursed, ready to ask me why I wanted so much to see' fat Thai lady on television'.

I see...I though that was a quality well spread among lots of men...well if all women are liars...I think i should change my mind about becoming a lesbian...

I was thinking of that possibility because I have been cheated from most of my partners... who were males

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Was Isaac telling the truth?

Which doesn't mean, i can't have toast for breakfast!  

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Tostados, I think!

Sheryl,

Thanks for your post. What you say echoes what I have learned and it has taken quite a bit of advice and careful listening to learn it.

I have a lot still to learn about Thai culture and there will be misunderstaning along the way. If I was not married to a Thai from a traditional environment I don't suppose that I would learn much about the way they interact. Alternatively, as you point out, I might learn it from the wrong people. It surprises me how many Westerners just assume that they can go to another country and find the culture to be the same as their own. Worse still, expect the locals to change their ways to suit the foreigner. It's like the Brits. who want British food when they go to Spain. If you don't like the way it is, don't go!

Tokyo T,

I'm in full agreement with your previous post but would add that matters seem to be no better elsewhere in the world. Lying is acceptable in the UK, for example, in business and politics as well as private life and is accompanied by a generally poor moral code. Perhaps it has always been thus and I have noticed only recently. I have to say that my awareness of the poor regard of the interests of individuals and family members in the UK has been heightened by seeing the much higher standards in Thailand.

I think that, in Thailand at least, what Westerners see as lies are often no more than attempts to please by giving an answer even if it has to be an invented one - a charming little habit that one encounters in Ireland too! - or a misunderstanding caused by cultural or language differences. I do get frustrated by the way that information drips out gradually and some important fact emerges only after I have made a committment. That is often just the Thai way rather than a cunning trap but the same technique is used frequently in the UK in a deliberate attempt to deceive.

In short, it's no better elsewhere, it's not always deliberate dishonesty, we have little choice but to live amongst it, we don't have to join in.

My comments are, of course a generalisations and individuals will vary from what we might regard as their national norm or average. However, I feel sure that standards have declined in the UK over several decades to the point here I can see no way back during my lifetime. I hold on the the belief that things are better in Thailand (rural Thailand at least) and will remain so until I hang up my flip flops for the last time.

All TGs are Thai.  And all BGs work in bars.  And they are all f......female.  I hate to inform you, but this is true.

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My point was that not all 'tg's' are the same and not all 'bg's' are the same. We should not label people in such sweeping ways but consider them as individuals.

Several recent posts in this thread seem to assume that lying and dishonesty are unique to parts of Asia. Or is it that some people believe that 'truth and honesty' are unique to the West? Truth is often a very personal matter and depends on our own perceptions. For example, some people believe that Bush and Blair told the truth about the need to invade Iraq, at least to the extent that they repeated what their own intelligence agencies had told them. Other people think that they are incurable liars. With the limited amount of factual knowledge available to most of us, we each can only make our own assumptions about which is the truth.

zzap has made an excellent point:

'There are more important values than telling the truth- i.e. saving face, protecting others and working towards the higher goal of longterm harmony. It's not always ill-will.

A pushy, investigative attitude will get you no-where!'

Accept that Thailand has a different culture from the ones in which most of us were raised. If you want to be there, you will be happier if you go along with that view rather than try to change things.

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Lying and dishonesty are certainly not unique to Asia or any other part of the world for that matter. I think everyone understands that people from all over the world will and do tell lies. The separation seems to be that lying and dishonesty seem to be more acceptable practices – which can even be supported by some posts including your own in attempting to justify lying and dishonesty – i.e. there are more important values than telling the truth. While this may be the case in your value system it is not the case in mine. This does not mean my value system is any better than yours or that yours is better than mine. Only that they are different.

As I stated in my earlier post I was raised to believe that pretty much nothing is more important than the truth – not even family. My values are pretty much based upon truth. As truth becomes the foundations of integrity, honesty, honor, and even justice – all require truth over all others.

As far as accepting Thailand as different and not attempting to change things – I will agree that this is true in many regards and in particular day-to-day mundane activities. But I do not feel this to be the case in regard to truth. I made it very clear to my wife (girlfriend at the time – TG if you will), that honesty was more important to me than anything else, and I expected her never to lie to me about anything. In turn I told her to never ask me a question if she could not accept a truthful answer. This is not to say that my wife has never lied to me, but I am confident that she has never lied to me on a matter of any significance. If I ask her a question “in company” she will delay a response until we are alone if she is uncomfortable telling the truth when others can hear.

I also have a little daughter and I can assure you that she will be raised – as I was – with truth as the foundation of her values. So while I am not so out of touch to believe that I can change the whole of Thailand, I have made it clear to those close to me that lying will do nothing but damage our relationship, and possibly end it.

While I am not so over the top to say that there is absolutely no circumstances in which lying is not a viable alternative, I think that IMHO at least one of the examples is not valid, one is questionable, and the third would depend greatly on the circumstances surrounding the situation.

Not valid to lie to save face – Again my opinion and certainly not the only opinion. As I mentioned in my earlier post, face to me is nothing more than a superficial image that should not be supported by lies.

Questionably valid – Long term harmony – as I find it hard to believe that long term harmony can be supported by a bed of lies – short term certainly, but long term I doubt it. In the long term harmony is obtained when units are in touch with each other, and this can not be obtained based upon lies.

Circumstances determine – protecting other – There are certainly circumstances where lying could be justified in the defense of the abuse of others. But again I think this is only a short term solution to any problem.

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I thought at first that you were being rather simplistic in this post but, towards the end, you mellowed your view, or perhaps changed it; I'm not sure which. Truth is not always an absolute value and neither is it always complete. With the best will in the world, our truth is only our perception and no-one elses. However much you strive to tell the truth and attempt to impose your will on your family, you might do well to consider that you live in a world that is not as truthful as you might like it to be.

Oh, and if you read my post more carefully, you will see that I did not condone lying.