Fat Haggis

From Der Farrang

A photo of Andy and Jane Taupin the internationally acclaimed forensics expert both taking some time of from court sessions on a beach in Samui

Jane Taupin is an internationally recognised forensic science expert in her field. She is currently a self-employed national and international forensic consultant and trainer.

Jane has been an operational forensic scientist for over 25 years in both Australia and England. She has published many works, including journal articles, books, bulletins and conference papers.

She has been an expert witness in over 140 trials, including more than 40 murder trials. She has also been the lead biologist at numerous crimes scenes in Australia and England.

She is also considered one of the leaders in the world of clothing damage analysis. She has worked as the main biologist in multi-disciplinary teams in large investigations including cold case homicides and has reported DNA profiling since 1999. http://www.expertsdirect.com.au/expert-profile/?id=4100

Go for it............

I feel a turning point with this case................

I sincerely hope this will indeed happen, despite her credentials being questioned by Internet nobodies!!

Somyot is full of hot air, amongst other things, this is a man whose organisation has been the largest guilty party by far for spreading false information and he needn't worry about the damage done by others, the RTP are more than capable of doing this all on their own.

Anyone who has also been following the Erawan shrine bombings will also know how full of shit the RTP are with their constant statements that were in direct contradiction to what was happening on the ground.

Also interesting that there's a distinct lack of a group of posters giving off their "opinions" there, but here, well it shows that the death of tourists through horrendous acts of violence outwith Koh Tao means Jack shit to them, in other words this case is personal, a vested interest, and pretty much an agenda.

I've been lambasting the cops and their sterling investigative techniques there too, and very critical of Somyots handling of that case too.

The boo hoo boys here seem upset about the contents of the UK coroners reports and crying in their cornflakes about underhand techniques because the prosecution allegedly didn't get that document, but since day one, the defence have been denied documentation that backs up the RTP and their handling of any alleged DNA, and the boo hoo boys don't see that as wrong? To me that's withholding evidence, which in most other places would be considered a crime on its own.

It is the prosecutions job to present ALL the evidence they have to secure a conviction, it is the defences job to be able to counter ALL the prosecutions evidence, and to be able to cross examine said witnesses, even before this trial started the defence were complaint about not receiving the prosecutions evidence.

I just don't get how the boohoo brigade don't understand the role of both the prosecution and defence and that they both do everything within their power, and the confines of the law to either get the conviction or acquittal, do they believe that somehow these basic things are different because TIT and it's Koh Tao, and they have agendas ?

It's simple, the prosecution are suppressing their own evidence and failing to comply to requests for proof of existence really. You have a poster stating that maybe they just didn't have that stuff there with them on that day, like it was something simple like forgetting your car keys!!

Then you have the police stating that they don't have the budget for storing pictures and other evidence which is pretty incredible to say the least, I carry a flash drive with all my personal details on me wherever I go, it cost me 200baht for 32GB that's an awful lot of info I can hold!!

So it's been delay and excuse after excuse over these documents, they are like the child who always makes excuses about not submitting his homework on time, not because he has a genuine reason, but because he hadn't don't it!!

The judges should have not requested, but DEMANDED they produce these documents within 24 hours, plenty of time to open a filing cabinet of your old school and don't have everything on e-files and send the stuff on the next flight to samui by courier!! But no, it's not coming, why?

If it's all on e-file, a quick attachment on an email and it's there within seconds!!

Simple, little Somchi hasn't done his homework!!

There is no documentation as its all been a total fabrication, I'm more than willing to be corrected on this by the boohoo brigade when the chain of custody documents and the paperwork that accompanied the DNA samples both before and after they were processed arrive on the defences desk, as per their request.

I'm not holding my breath they will ever get them, as its impossible as in my opinion, and many other here seem to agree..... They simply don't exist!!

Give them lie detector test - even though can be beaten- don't think in this case would happen - DNA evidence nothing as alledgely nothing on Hoe and DNA that arrested them on the rape "alledgely" - non left to test - either used up or can no longer have - <deleted> joke!!!!!

Yeah but what about giving the B2 a lie detector test too

There's having a difference of opinion, and then there's blatant posting calling into question the qualifications and expertise of highly qualified experts, who have far more experience with real life, than the vast majority of posters here.

When there are conflicting reports done by alleged professionals within their respective fields, when that expert analysis is immediately dismissed by no qualified persons, as it doesn't suit their "opinions or agendas" isn't the way anyone who allegedly respects others opinions is it?

When you have the same, if not better qualifications as those professionals, then your opinions may have some sway, but to be critical, to the point of being downright disrespectful, that sir is an even bigger Hypocrisy.

If you've also followed these threads over the past year, and you are coming across as a pretty smart guy, then you should be noticing common denominators too.

There are also experts in certain fields, and former Law Enforcement officials here, who know this shit inside out, but it matters no to a particular side of the debate, because their "opinions" have much greater credence than bona fide professionals ? Nah don't think so mate.

An opinion that is something that can be changed, and agenda on the other hand

What is the significance of the yellow/blue arrows in the 'gait' photos, given most haven't seen the B2 walking therefore are unable to understand the comparison?

No flames please, I haven't been able to work it out.

I think it's possibly the direction the toes are pointing after each step, as in outwards

Again we hear a prolific poster hold onto the DNA issue, when there is no chain of custody, results produced faster than even experts have stated, why wasn't the person who conducted these tests able to provide documentation and a schedule of events that took place the moment the DNA was handed over to them?

What were the instructions given as to the priority of those samples, also pretty sure that it was claimed that the samples actually went to Singapore as Thailand didn't have the ability to produce fast results.

Who signed for the samples on receipt of them, and who signed for the results after they were complete?

Far too many discrepancies with regards to simple hearsay that DNA was actually submitted, without any signatures and a chain of custody, these examples are the figment of imaginations, discrepancies in both autopsies should have been enough to make someone go " wait a minute, what's going on here" but nope, the results are dismissed immediately out of hand, that's not an opinion, that's an agenda pure and simple.

It is impossible to tell what the current position about the status of the DNA evidence actually is from newspaper reports of statements by "spokesmen" who do not know anything about what DNA evidence is, or how it is gathered , or how it is interpreted, made to reporters who are even more ignorant, and who are usually translating very badly and inaccurately into English.

I would say objectively at present there is no way of telling what DNA evidence there is, how it has been presented in the case, and what the future status of any presentation is going to be. I do not trust social media accounts, and I do not trust newspapers except in as far as they are directly reporting what has been said in court, not at second hand, but because the reporter has been present in court, and understands the language.

I think I believe at the very minimum that the defence has engaged one of the best known forensic DNA experts in the world, Jane Taupin, and that she has not testified, although she is ready to. I cannot believe that this has been made up, as this person is too well known to be the subject of false rumours.

The explanation given for her lack of testimony by Andy Hall is that the report on which the DNA evidence was based has not been made available, so she cannot give testimony on it. This also seems unlikely to have been made up, as it would be too easy to find out and report that it isn't true. In addition I remember reading that when the police forensic witness was on the stand giving testimony it was reported that she said the police refuse to make the DNA report available, citing a Thai law that prevents private information on individuals being circulated (!). This may well be false reporting however.

Now the verifiable fact that the defence have a world expert on DNA ready to testify and she has not been able to seems to require a LOT of explanation. If the police will not make available the report on which their entire case is based, that tells you something fairly significant. I have always thought that, even if the Thai police have fabricated every other item of evidence out an arrogant and stupid desire to make their case better, then if this DNA evidence is true, they are probably on a safe and justified conviction.

It now seems to me more and more likely that this DNA evidence either doesn't exist at all, or is so compromised and inadequate that it doesn't even prove identity. What possible reason could there be to hide the only evidence directly linking the accused to the crime?

Andy Hall added 7 new photos with MW RN and 5 others.

Yesterday at 6:50am ·

The Koh Tao defense team has been assisted for many months now by renowned international DNA and forensics expert Jane Taupin, a resident in Australian but trained extensively in the UK (http://www.expertsdirect.com.au/expert-profile/?id=4100)

An expert on DNA analysis and particularly clothing and substances, Jane has been a crucial and important part of the Koh Tao murder case defense team and another pro bono here seeking to ensure justice for the accused, deceased, their families, friends and all concerned.

Jane's advice has been spot on, accurate and crucial to the defense team

https://www.facebook.com/andy.hall.3110?fref=nf&pnref=story

Very Disappointing to see poster goldbuggy questioning this ladies qualifications

No mate, he's slandering her along with the UK coroner, that's more than disappointing, it's bang out of order!!

"The whole picture, drawn by both sides, will only be known when the verdict is read and I think that people that take the word of the defense as representing the whole picture may be setting themselves up for disappointment."

The whole picture as you call it should be known to BOTH the prosecution and the defence, there was a horrific murder, and two other lives are at stake, and I think that people that take the word of the prosecution as representing the whole picture may be setting themselves a up for a disappointment.

The whole trial has been a shambles from start to finish both sides claiming they were presenting more witnesses that appeared, and that's understandable if there's a stupid time frame on all of this, the trial should continue until all witnesses presented have had their say, and not a simple 5 minutes on the stand which seems to be the case here.

Pretty hard to submit evidence and documents for some thing that never happened

Which is odd as they seem to be able to do stuff like this any other time

I couldn't help but read this little snippet

"I have never resorted to the facile and self serving arguments of conspiracies, so no."

But believing a Thai coroners autopsy report and the statements submitted by the RTP over discrepancies in an alleged rape, as opposed to the findings of a government coroner of the country of the deceased as " irrelevant " and dismissing them right off the bat....

Course you don't do conspiracies or entertain them in the slightest!!

I'd like to thank the mods for what must be a very difficult topic and thread to moderate and to control, they have done a pretty decent job, despite some criticism from myself.

To further add, why was the lab technician who processed the DNA samples not a witness for the prosecution?

Going on the stand and explaining the whole process from the minute a sample is handed to them, processed through documentation, analysed and then the results printed off?

Without any supporting documentation it really is only hearsay that any such procedure in this case ever took place.

There must be a very different trial going on, the real one, in the real world, as this is far from being the perfect watertight case that convinced the families enough for them to have released these statements stating that the accused had a very real case to answer to and that the evidence was overwhelming and convincing.

And oddly enough it was a particular group of posters who were pretty adamant that forum members also respected the parents wishes to stop discussing the case here and on other social networks, I actually feel sorry for the Millers and Wetheridges, as they have been completely misled, and continued to be misled.

The prosecution should have been ramming document after supporting document down the defences throat, but it's all boiling down now to nothing more than "hearsay" the very things the same group have been accusing posters here of listening to, the constant ignoring of the flaws in the investigation, dismissing evidence such as Hannah's clothing as nothing important just beggars belief.

I agree with Partington, I don't believe there was ever any DNA to begin with, the excuses from the RTP about lack of documentation due to funding has to be a complete joke, a system that's endemic with corruption cannot afford serious hardware such as external hard drives so that crucial documentation can be stored?

But hell, if it was pictures needed of protesting students, there's more accessories and pictures available than a professionally photographers portfolio!!!

And yet through all of this, I would say 98% of this forum simply do not believe the B2 are guilty of this horrendous crime, even though some initially were 50/50 how is it possible that such a high percentage always seem to be the "problem children" and threads get closed ?

I'm also at a loss here as anyone who has spent any length of time in the Kingdom also know how despised the RTP are by locals, and yet, avid supporters here who have spent time here just never seem to agree on what is clearly a piss poor investigation and a piss poor presentation for prosecution!!

Again we hear a prolific poster hold onto the DNA issue, when there is no chain of custody, results produced faster than even experts have stated, why wasn't the person who conducted these tests able to provide documentation and a schedule of events that took place the moment the DNA was handed over to them?

What were the instructions given as to the priority of those samples, also pretty sure that it was claimed that the samples actually went to Singapore as Thailand didn't have the ability to produce fast results.

Who signed for the samples on receipt of them, and who signed for the results after they were complete?

Far too many discrepancies with regards to simple hearsay that DNA was actually submitted, without any signatures and a chain of custody, these examples are the figment of imaginations, discrepancies in both autopsies should have been enough to make someone go " wait a minute, what's going on here" but nope, the results are dismissed immediately out of hand, that's not an opinion, that's an agenda pure and simple.

There is a very big difference in having an opinion that differed from others and having an agenda, you can change opinions as facts are presented agendas well....

I'm not sure it is solely the embalming that would have destroyed any possible crucial evidence, I believe there's another process that "cleans" the body that also destroys tissue matter and DNA such as semen.

The point this is turning to here is that the RTP investigation and autopsy results support their investigation and there's now no way to disprove this, due to the process and missing/missplaced or whatever, whilst the UK Coroners report is refuting the Thai results by stating there's conflicting accounts, no evidence of rape.

AleG is now going on about Lesions, and the lack of, and is once again calling the findings of a Government official suspect....why?

I'm sorry but this is NOT someone who is simply interested in the truth, you simply do not go to these lengths of dismissing expert opinions when you're a simple Joe Bloggs off the street. Every single locked thread and banning has all had a single common denominator, it do any take much to know who, it's this that I just don't get.

Every single open minded person here has at one stage come into conflict with This member, he makes outlandish claims, I don't want this thread locked anymore than anyone else who has been keeping tabs on this, but it seems pretty obvious there is a concerted effort to get these threads closed down, effectively cutting off the flow of information. Why is this allowed to constantly happen?

What does this poster know, that despite the prosecution being ripped to shreds, and the conduct of the investigation and those who carried it out, he has not once thought " I have my doubts ?"

I had my doubts about the B2 early on, but I know about Koh Taos more shady side, and the shady people there, and the more press releases the RTP put out it convinced me then that a travesty of justice was unfolding and that lies and spin on the RTP were spiralling out of their own control, I had a very open mind. Not now.

This is a trial they thought would never happen, and like many other high profile incidents it would disappear, for all the sceptics here who doubt the RTPs case was solid, add several thousand average Thais who have followed this on various social media platforms.

Stay away from the flame Cats and Dogs ;-)

AleG also seems to be a forensic pathologist, Gait and physiology, and DNA expert, as he's been able to counter pretty much what all these highly qualified defence witnesses have stated even dismissing their expertise, and credentials on the odd occasion. We should be pretty humbled by his presence really, it's not very often you get to place on you're ignore list, someone with such magnificent credentials ;-)

I'm still waiting on an explanation from the resident expert how it's possible for David to have been allegedly killed with the same hoe Hannah was apparently killed with, without any traces of his blood showing up?

It's pretty apparent with the majority of posters that the RTP have fabricated, distorted and applied artistic licence to this crime, and this was touted as "watertight" and that the accused had " a case to answer to" and yet these judges are carrying on regardless, how is it possible to put a timeframe on a trial where 2 other lives are at stake here? Surely you sum up after all the witnesses have had their say and have been cross examined etc?

It stinks really, it's actually more disgusting than Pussy Cats feelings when reading words from official documents and sources

I also want to avoid the tradgedy of those young men being done for something which is apparent they didn't do.

But, i would just like the posters not to go into graphic details too much.

I have been trying to unsee those photos too.

How you can try to un see something you must have deliberately searched for? I'm really sorry but you really don't deserve to be treated with kid gloves here.

You knowingly knew that both were brutally murdered, it's been in pretty much every western news paper last year about the extent of the injuries and yet you still felt compelled to seek out the photos of the victims for whatever reason?

Morbid curiosity got the better of you perhaps and yet you come over all sensitive to a coroners reports graphic details? Something doesn't quite add up here, I make no apologies unlike stealth energiser whom, had you been following all the threads up until now, has been nothing but professional in his/her approach, unlike a few of the "baiters" here.

Vulva, vagina, nipples etc. like that stealth person wrote.

It is wrong to write such things.

Post 730

Deeply Sorry Patsycat

It is really better not to follow this I realise it must be upsetting I have a son and daughter also similar ages and I honesty don't think i could handle what these families have gone through.

So many discrepancies have been found by social media we all justice and the truth we don't want to see 2 innocent men sentenced to death we all want the truth.

the autopsy report is horrible to look at I understand.

I have no intentions of being disrespectful .

sorry again

You haven't been disrespectful at all, not even ONCE during the whole, whole long time!

You're always accurate, decent, fair and to the point.

Please do continue this way, it is extremely beneficial and helpful to all of us.

Thank you!

I agree with that and your apology shows how decent you are.

Thank you again for your posts, you usually stay far from opinions and speculations, and just provide information from various sources, making this thread useful to people who want to follow the case.

Very well said

Vulva, vagina, nipples etc. like that stealth person wrote.

It is wrong to write such things.

Post 730

Tell that to all the coroners out there!! Stop being a prude, there were far more serious allegations stated by the RTP, I suggest if you're not comfortable with autopsy reports simply don't read them.

When you have a complete contradiction between local authorities and British authorities with regards to the alleged sexual assault of the deceased then it raises serious questions as to why so many discrepancies.

Please spare us the whole shock horror about Hannah's injuries to, her family have known about these since BOTH coroners reports, they have also sat in on the case and have heard in graphic detail how their loved one allegedly died at the hands of the accused.

Sorry for being so blunt, but all these details have been in the public domain and have been posted on TVF numerous times. It is natural they will be discussed, nobody is forcing you to read this thread, and the fact you've only just started posting here tends to make it also a tad suspicious.

Unfortunately when there are claims made by the RTP as to what was done to poor Hannah, it is only right to be able to refute these claims without having to be "politically correct" and "sensitive to the families" who have sadly all the horrendous details.

It was also the RTP that stated Hannah had been raped, it's also in the alleged confession so is AleG now questioning if a rape took place because the defence are asking the same thing? He's full of contradictions!!

But the RTP Have a budget and slush fund that they can purchase Sig Sauer pistols though eh? But are unable to buy a 1000 baht 500 gigabyte hard drive from tesco lotus?

Mmmmmmh okay !! We believe you. Well actually only 3 people here probably do, the rest of us think like most thinks pertaining to this farce and sham of a trail that the RTP are like public toilets..simply full of shit!!

Significant portions of water in the lungs?

Utter dross, I have had several friends "drown" and the water in their lungs was very small, drowning is asphyxiation of the larynx caused by the person trying to hold their breath till they normally can't hold it any longer and they take a large "gulp"

Two of my friends were knocked unconscious and dragged underwater by fishing gear, the cause of death was put down to drowning at their inquest the water contents in their lungs was less than a cup full.

You can also technically "drown" out of water when lungs fill with blood of you have been shot or hit by an IED the coroners rarely put the cause of death as "drowning" in their own blood but down to " injuries sustained due to GSWs or IEDs/explosions.

There does not need to be a "significant" anount of fluid in the lungs for coroners to declare "death by drowning"

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/83/11/vanbeeck1105abstract/en/

The prosecution/RTP also stated that the defendants used the hoe to kill their victims when neither their DNA was found on it, but the victims DNA was.

So can you apply the same reasoning about credibility please AleG to the prosecution claims and "experts"

All these claims are on record and were the basis of their prosecution.

If you cannot see what a complete farce this trial has been , then you really are only here to protect a vested interest or person.

We have used Gait to describe a person, since the 1980's

We used an A-H profile when doing intelligence gathering and collating information about suspected terrorists in Northern Ireland. The G stood for Gait.

So it's not a new method of part of an identification procedure it's been around for over 30 years within the British Military.

A = Age

B= Build

C= complexion

D= distinguishing marks

E= elevation

F= can't recall

G= Gait

I have used this method for many years and still do to this day, it works.

It's called due diligence.

If you're bringing in an "expert" and you fail to do due diligence and make sure they are who they say they are, and what they say they are and have the subject matter expertise, you're the one whose credibility will be called into question along with your " expert" .

I see it all the time in news paper articles , those who are supposed security and defence "experts" who can't even get weapons terminology and weapons designations correct !!