Eric Loh

"At least the current administration is working on reform..." Well at you are honest to admit that there are no reforms after 2 years. Do keep up with your optimism.

Nice to see the usual coterie of The Thais should make no comments here and my many Thai friends say"" bunch are out in force, I can only presume you may well be Americans wishing to impose American style democracy on Thailand.

The military have the guns. Yes .,But the military will not use them they do not want a re run of 1976 either.

As a digression I seem to recall the demonstrators from those you appear to support were very liberal with their use of their guns in the last round of demonstrations against the previous administration, selective memories indicate a bias and a denial of the truth.

As you seem to be so knowledgeable about that horrendous event in 1976 and were here at the time no doubt we can have some first hand accounts of that outrage from you please.

You seem to miss a part of history after 1976 whereby the military again turned their guns on their own. Remember 2010 and 81 civilian deaths? Selective memory. No?

It's so nice to see the rightful leader of the Thai nation make honourable statements and clarify things.

Not that she for one minute will be believed by her masters who deposed her in a military coup and placed Thailand under their rule.

But she is a kind loyal sister and citizen .

Ultimately it will be her that creates the protests nation wide.

I fear one day her brothers statements or actions will trigger our mighty PM to jail her or get her into AA.

Something half of us here need in all it's manifestations .

But minus my morning Chang I digest.

Quote Yingluck

"" International communities would look at facts , and would not allow anyone to tell anything or to allow any lobbying?

She said she Believed at present her brother is living difficultly and in abroad.

Unquote.

Firstly TS and his money would be suffering the usual 5"10 models in high heels between Singapore races on a giant Plasma and 60 year old scotch and rib eye prepared by chefs.

Secretary scribbling notes.

Lets not worry about his exile .

But her prior comment is whats interesting me.

She is getting maybe disillusioned at the international communities track record.

Which amounts to over 700 days of doing really nothing.

She feels vunerable perhaps?

A poster posed the question on this forum yesterday .

"" when are they ( international community) going to act?

It's a fair and timely question.

Surely sanctions must be ultimately considered now?

Or are they in on all this insidious AA and clamp downs on speech.

Since when does the international immunity care what's said about a military government ?

Early days one senses and until they boil this woman alive the rebellion will be quelled and a few sessions ensure the clock ticking is heard above any protests.

At least until the brother really does decide it's time.

Then their boat will indeed be rocked.

Not by peasants with pitch forks either

What a load of nonsense. Yingluck was removed from office by a court. Did you miss that? She's already dissolved parliament despite vowing previously not too (we see her vows are meaningless). She moved someone illegally so she could give his job to someone else and move her ex brother-in-law into the "vacancy" created in that key position. Getting the family in where it matters.

Anyone with half a brain or who actually lives here, knows she was a puppet, stooge, pretty put in place by her criminal brother who called the shots.

And you think she's the rightful leader? Unbelievable.

She is a puppet of her brother but she did win an election. Prayuth TOOK power and his the puppet of the old elite. He has less legitimacy than Yingluck.

PTP won an election. She then handed control to her brother, who as a convicted criminal fugitive wasn't able to stand. You can argue how much control he exerted but that's not the point.

What legitimacy she had was being eroded as her brothers involvement became more and more obvious when even some ministers stopped denying it, people flew to see to get their promotions, he sacked people and reshuffled "her" cabinet; brought back all his old TRT cronies as soon as he could and try to force through an ill judged whitewash himself and place himself above the law bill.

All legitimacy went when she was convicted by a court of nepotism and acting illegally.

Coups can never have legitimacy unless they are very short lived and restore democracy as quickly as possible.

Nothing like regurgitating the same old stuff BB. Thaksin think PT act is the slogan right from the start of the election campaign. The voters know that and possibly like that and on that platform, PT got elected and formed the government.

So what's exactly new about putting your own people in position. Every government and even the junta government do that and blatantly too. You see fault in cabinet change? Your level of understanding workings of government cant be that low. Right?

Whitewash, amnesty attempt... We all know the story. Bad move and rescinded by the upper house and withdraw. End of story.

I haven't read it. Where did you read the English translation please Eric?

Why do you have to act so dumb.

I'm a kid person Eric. i try to communicate with people on their own level, which clearly you appreciate.

So have you read the Charter Eric, in English or Thai?

Or just mouthing off repeating what others, who might be a tad biased, have said?

You are not communicating BB, just diversion. Try answering directly what I posted. And I don't tap to your beat.

it's obvious to all but the inane that many, many Thais are against the current junta and that has nothing to do with supporting Thaksin

very tricky (and smart) of the Junta to position ANY opposition as from Thaskin and the gullible just sit and lap it up

Just as it's obvious to most intelligent people that many Thais are who are against Thaksin and his family are nothing to do with supporting the Junta.

The Junta position blame on Thaksin and he blames them.

Nice if some of these who support neither could come up with new political parties, with real manifestos, with real reforms.

The exclusive charter written to handicap democracy is not conducive to healthly development of political parties, attract fresh politicians and reforms. it may be conducive to party forged in the barrack.

This guy is a walking and talking disaster and really self destructive. No need for Thaksin or any others to do much. He will go down history infamously.

Wouldnt she say that?

and forget his failed red shirt coup in 2010 ?

and many many more things how he did not love his countrymen?

Oh please! Thak loves this country more than anything. He loves his people too. Without them he would lose any sense of power and would never have gotten so rich. As for YL, can you blame her for defending him? He got her to be the PM. He helps her with probably millions of baht and she has everything she wants it needs even now. For her to point the finger at him would be telling him she is ready to be poor again.

What an illuminating comment. Thaksin loves his people and the people loves him which he why he got elected twice. You also got mistaken that PM can be appointed. Only coup can appoint. Lastly, you don't seem to know much about Yingluck wealth as shareholder of SC Asset. By the way, Thaksin is not a shareholder and Yingluck is the smallest of the 10 shareholders. She is rich by her own account.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights must be behind Yingluck's statement as both have the same message for the NCPO.

I want the military junta to consider that having different opinion is not dividing the country. The NCPO should open its mind to allow free expression of opinions which some may agree or disagree. But this will enable the people to hear all opinions, and will make the referendum perfect. Yingluck.

"An open and dynamic public debate on the draft Constitution would foster national unity, strengthen the legitimacy and acceptance of the Constitution and provide a sense of collective ownership," Zeid said. "I urge the government to actively encourage, rather than discourage, dialogue and engagement on the draft Constitution. This would be an important step in establishing a solid foundation for a sustainable democracy in Thailand." Zeid.

The little dumpy fella giving himself a pat on the back is he?

Impressive.

You miss out dopey.

Every time he ordered a crackdown, the situation to worse. Classic example, crackdown on drink driving during Songkran. Please leave the small matters too your ministers and concentrate on matters befitting your position.

But this is the last thing the old elite wants because that means the beginning of the end for the pra/ammart/sakdina system.

Understand sakdina and you understand Thailand.

https://historyplanet.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/the-last-orientals-the-thai-sakdina-system/

Problem is that many middle class and wealthy understand sakdina but refused to move with times and dropped the prejudice. They still have the mentality that poorer people's votes carry less weight than them. That's why they fear Thaksin and the peasant revolution.

Precisely right - and history shows repeatedly what happens to elites who refuse to adapt. This doesn't have to end badly but unless they adapt, it's inevitable.

Right. A while back I saw someone else characterise it thusly:

"If you have a dog that steals a steak from the table, and then bites you when you try to get it back, what do you do? Try to persuade it as to the error of it's ways? it's a dog, and a dog will always behave as it is allowed (or trained) to behave.

A dog only understands pain or isolation as disapproval, whichever works best. Therefore you must either kick it and keep kicking it until it learns not to bite but to co-exist peacefully, or you must isolate it. No affection, no food, no water, no shelter. Until it learns how to behave properly".

What you should never do is accept the bad behaviour because the dog interprets that as approval of the behaviour.

Many decades of acceptance and submission have only taught the wealthy classes of Thailand that what they do to their 'underlings' works. In my opinion, what does not want to change must be isolated and caused great pain.

One of the great advantages of international sanctions is that they punish the 'leaders' and the followers until the followers get fed up with bearing the crosses manufactured and imposed by their 'leaders'.

Punchline: as someone else posted, history shows that civil war is the only way to take back the steak. It is inevitable, and given the Thai psyche it will be bloody but brief. Once cancers have grown, they cannot be persuaded to heal themselves, they have to be cut out.

The problem is that these are Thais so they balls things up. Competence and self-critique in anything are not their strong suits.

What you said as a consequence of forced acceptance and submission is already happening in the South. If that is not a lesson enough for the establishment and start making changes, than Thailand face a rocky future.

But this is the last thing the old elite wants because that means the beginning of the end for the pra/ammart/sakdina system.

Understand sakdina and you understand Thailand.

https://historyplanet.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/the-last-orientals-the-thai-sakdina-system/

Problem is that many middle class and wealthy understand sakdina but refused to move with times and dropped the prejudice. They still have the mentality that poorer people's votes carry less weight than them. That's why they fear Thaksin and the peasant revolution.

Boy the irony of the man who supported the extra question of a non elected MP. Stupidity runs from top to bottom of this junta government.

Democracy, free election, freedom to express will lead to a more creative and innovative nation. Key factors needed to propel the country competitive edge. Don't think the junta PM understand any of this.

no sympathy for the red shirt baby killers, don't forget what they did. They are just waiting to do it again too!!!

So far they have gotten off lucky.

If you only open your other eye, you will see nurse & reporter killers and even the popcorn killer.

Extract from his now infamous rumble with the reporters ' demonstrations could block the charter referendum, just as past protests had obstructed election'.

Is he attacking the Dem and Suthep or just his usual loose mouth. Me think the latter.

​ ​

​

This guy can't even handle pressure from reporters and he is a army general. How on earth is he going to make decision on the battle ground. He certainly not PM material neither is he military material.

He has done enough. He doesn't have any chance in a military court. It is not worth 2 or 3 years in jail. His only option is silence.

I think you are right most don't want to see him jailed as an "example" and that's the way it's heading. He's a man of principal and now a prisoner of conscience but better to comply with the Junta for now.

He is a troublemaker who wants to be a martyr... give him enough rope... and check his bank accounts... It's because of people just like him that Thailand has a Junta in charge... Every single Thai person rich or poor is entitled to their own views...No need to go out and shout about those personal thoughts ... keep quiet young man or become a pop singer....

He is doing exactly what you have done mate; expressing your personal thoughts. Are you a young man or a pop singer?

Question of who blink first. Doubt the NCPO will have the guts to trial him in the military court. So much negativities from domestic and international fronts. Imagine the news of the junta jailing him for his open expression. That will bring a barrage of criticism from the international community and will give the local oppositions an excuse to protest. Better the NCPO release him after a nice little photo ops and propaganda news release that Wattana has been cooperative and earn the NCPO some brownie points. Of course, Wattana will resume his open expression which is his and the Thais universal rights.

Exit Union Square and walk towards Central. Lots of nice drinking pubs on both sides of the road. Music and beer girls with a sprinkle of uni girls. If you more adventurous, take bus to Imax (3 stops from Central) and you be hit with pubs and clubs on both sides of the road.

so if I am reading the article correctly and taking the correct meaning of what these people are saying, they are not protesting the Charter or its contents - they are making a political statement against the current government, the contents of the charter is of absolutely no interest to them even if it takes Thailand in the direction of a proper sustainable stable democracy, stamps out corruption and power abuse and an election next year

Sounds more like a protest from the Thaksin/red camp because it will limit their ability to steal from the people and will effectively prevent Thaksin from returning to Thailand without going to jail, his master plan is trashed if this charter gets approved

No, there was a previous article about the academic group rejecting the Charter, and they are doing so because they object to its content. Many of their criticisms are specific. YOu can find a detailed article from 3 days ago on BP.

Open your eyes, Smedly.

I wish people would stop trying to tell me how to think, I can assure you my eyes are well open

There are many things about this government I do not like and have posted a few on TVF, people here are far to quick to criticize other posters because they think for some reason they know better, going forward I will gladly be proven wrong with some things but for now I will wait and see

So far with this charter the only thing that I find questionable that is worth a mention is the composition of the upper house and how it is selected but equally given the antics of previous elected governments I can see why caution is needed

@smedly...

I found your comment here really funny, especially when taken in conjunction with your sig file...

"Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"

Or put another way... there are none so blind as those who will not see.

I find it funny because so many people get on here arguing vehemently on one side or the other, as if either side was actually "right" by some objective definition of that term. And, like everywhere else in the world, they don't realize that they are not even arguing about the real issues. This is all just window dressing to distract and entertain the populace... I believe that they have designed this charter intentionally to delay the process so they have an excuse to maintain power until at least after the inevitable happens and probably quite a bit longer... They have systematically suppressed even what should be healthy discussion and debate that is crucial and fundamental to the process of democracy... which this country has NEVER been IMHO. And they have mixed in a healthy dose of nationalism and xenophobia to stave off the affects of any foreign ideas, whether they come from local expats, foreign governments, or international watchdog organizations.

Bottom line, the REAL struggle in this country has nothing to do with this charter... this little tune is just a tool that the conductor is using to make the minstrels play and the peasants dance while the real game is being played behind the scenes.

I've been here 6 years, and I really do like living here... but it is hard to deny the reality that this is quickly becoming that kind of government that controls everything, where the people can not express any form of disagreement, and the county is ruled by the whim and fancy of the leader... There is a name for that kind of government, but it escapes me right now... but I'm sure most of you understand what I mean.

I actually rarely argue with anyone, I make my point give my opinion and move on, there are however some very rude people here who have no point to make and would rather discus the poster, I can assure you it wouldn't happen if we were having a discussion face to face, that is how I always try to conduct myself on here, rarely passing insults or trying to belittle someone using snide remarks and insults - quite childish actually

You are calling those who disagreed with your opinion childish and accused them of being rude. Isn't that insulting to others.

At tax reform to give the lower income group more disposable income is a tick for me. For the upper income group, really makes vey little difference. Thailand still remain the highest personal income tax among ASEAN peers like Singapore and Malaysia. Disincentive for foreign professionals coming to Thailand to work.

so if I am reading the article correctly and taking the correct meaning of what these people are saying, they are not protesting the Charter or its contents - they are making a political statement against the current government, the contents of the charter is of absolutely no interest to them even if it takes Thailand in the direction of a proper sustainable stable democracy, stamps out corruption and power abuse and an election next year

Sounds more like a protest from the Thaksin/red camp because it will limit their ability to steal from the people and will effectively prevent Thaksin from returning to Thailand without going to jail, his master plan is trashed if this charter gets approved

No, there was a previous article about the academic group rejecting the Charter, and they are doing so because they object to its content. Many of their criticisms are specific. YOu can find a detailed article from 3 days ago on BP.

Open your eyes, Smedly.

I wish people would stop trying to tell me how to think, I can assure you my eyes are well open

There are many things about this government I do not like and have posted a few on TVF, people here are far to quick to criticize other posters because they think for some reason they know better, going forward I will gladly be proven wrong with some things but for now I will wait and see

So far with this charter the only thing that I find questionable that is worth a mention is the composition of the upper house and how it is selected but equally given the antics of previous elected governments I can see why caution is needed

Just to make clear that your only concern is the upper house composition. So you ok with the charter inclusion of 5 reserved seats for the heads of the army, navy, air force & national police plus military supreme commander and defense Perm sec. A bit like the Mynmar constitution. And you have no concern that the appointed senators with the inclusion of the uniformed chiefs can stage a no confident vote against an elected government. The bicameral parliament could then select a candidate as PM who is not an elected MP or even a politician. Kind of a disposable coalition government at the whims and fancy of the establishment. Just making sure I get your message.

my above post explains it, please feel free to disagree, I don't see any other option, Thailand has a habit of imploding because elected governments go rogue, the reason for that is that they repeat the same things over and over because there are not solid rules to stop them and any of the few rules and agencies that exist and stand in their way they try to remove them - over and over and over the same things happen driven by greed money corruption and power abuse, why does this not happen in other countries - because there are solid rules laws and constitutions that are well written and prevent it, Thailand has never had that which is why it just cycles over and over - because they can, one side is as bad as the other but none of them are willing to make changes to stop it because they are all too busy enriching themselves

so if I am reading the article correctly and taking the correct meaning of what these people are saying, they are not protesting the Charter or its contents - they are making a political statement against the current government, the contents of the charter is of absolutely no interest to them even if it takes Thailand in the direction of a proper sustainable stable democracy, stamps out corruption and power abuse and an election next year

Sounds more like a protest from the Thaksin/red camp because it will limit their ability to steal from the people and will effectively prevent Thaksin from returning to Thailand without going to jail, his master plan is trashed if this charter gets approved

No, there was a previous article about the academic group rejecting the Charter, and they are doing so because they object to its content. Many of their criticisms are specific. YOu can find a detailed article from 3 days ago on BP.

Open your eyes, Smedly.

I wish people would stop trying to tell me how to think, I can assure you my eyes are well open

There are many things about this government I do not like and have posted a few on TVF, people here are far to quick to criticize other posters because they think for some reason they know better, going forward I will gladly be proven wrong with some things but for now I will wait and see

So far with this charter the only thing that I find questionable that is worth a mention is the composition of the upper house and how it is selected but equally given the antics of previous elected governments I can see why caution is needed

Just to make clear that your only concern is the upper house composition. So you ok with the charter inclusion of 5 reserved seats for the heads of the army, navy, air force & national police plus military supreme commander and defense Perm sec. A bit like the Mynmar constitution. And you have no concern that the appointed senators with the inclusion of the uniformed chiefs can stage a no confident vote against an elected government. The bicameral parliament could then select a candidate as PM who is not an elected MP or even a politician. Kind of a disposable coalition government at the whims and fancy of the establishment. Just making sure I get your message.

In all the outrage let's not forget Chalerm Yoobamrung's sons , one of whom was charged with killing a undercover cop, while in the Army, in front of witnesses, who forgot what they saw a couple of months later at trial and is now a police firearms instructor at the RTP Academy in Bangkok

Or the other son who was given a job with the Public Health Department and was the public face of the Mr. Toilet campaign

Sorry, but lost track of son number three but am sure he is sucking at the trough somewhere

As The Who so famously said:

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution

Take a bow for the new revolution

Smile and grin at the change all around

Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday

Then I'll get on my knees and pray

We don't get fooled again

Don't get fooled again

No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss

Same as the old boss

The mission of the coup as boldly and steadfastly stated by Prayuth was to reform matters like cronyism and nepotism; remember that?