DirtFarmer

and the mother of the young chap is a sister of Abhisit. So if Suranand is a cousin of Abhisit, that means he's an uncle once removed?

As the articles only mention the young chap didn't want to discuss politics while here, I guess we'll not know which of the two uncles he prefers democratically speaking.

Also it read

Well apparently he's been a good student and deserves whatever accolades accompany that and I add mine to those...but... The headline doesn't read

PARIT WACHARASINDHU - first Thai to lead top Oxford society why not...? ...and indeed is a year old.. It reads Abhisit's nephew..

so we get the point right...Keep that name associated in the press with something good... politicking at it's finest well done Kuhn Abhisit ( sarcasm)

You seem to suggest that k. Abhisit somehow is involved in getting the article published at this moment. I guess that involvement would also include the info being shared on facebook since a few days (as a member mentioned)?

Next we've get the inside information that the anti-Abhisit rant on young Oaf's facebook page was actually setup and hacked into facebook by a pro-Abhisit fanclub (like the Facebook Abhisit Boys 5)

LOL your dreaming there... I would never suggest that but yes I do believe that this was intentional..as I said why post an article that pertains to something over a year ago and instead of using the principles name in the headline they use the Uncle's name... to what end ? Makes no journalistic sense does it..? the association makes sense..given the current machinations but it just struck me as a bit......odd.

I sure hope Suthep supporters here don't give the Uncle any credit for what the kid has accomplished. But I am sure they will. We just need to hope he doesn't turn out like his Uncle.

I guess the young lad is also related to Suranand Vejjajiva, the spokesman for Ms. Yingluck and former one of the 111 banned TRT-ers ?

He's also related to abhisits father who was given his position as Deputy Minister of Public Health in 1991 by the military Junta after their coup (must be a family thing,military appointments, though not including the draft that is ) so how far do you want to take this off topic peeing contest?

Yes and Mr Abhisit's father is also an independent director on the board of Charoen Pokphand (CP Group) the Ceo of which is the wealthiest billionaire in Thailand ... tops the Forbes list...always good to follow the money... (guessing we could take it to Hong Kong)

So who is the caretaker Pm now...?

Yingluck is not in a position to do any deals, she is crawling-trying to be a sweet mouth.

Had 3 years -new exactly what her party were up to, got into big time Dung, now in mega trouble and losing support every day.

Yingluck is trying to save as much face as possible. Wish I could believe her good intentions, her history she gave to me doesn't sway me.

It even looks like --"I'm sorry" time, so do what you can.

Well until the ruling she is still there... no matter what you think will happen or are convinced will happen or have knowledge of that I don't...she is still there she did not capitulate within any of the deadlines or declarations by Suthep ... she did not fold, she did not topple with all that Suthep and his mob threw at her and you can be as happy as a pig in a poke when and if she is finally toppled by the judiciary coup,,, or an actual military coup but until then... all parties are now in a face save mode... so we will still have to wait a bit longer... i still believe a lot of us will be surprised with the final outcome.. some maybe even delighted...

Are you trying to tell me she is still there ?? she did not fold you said---she did not topple---she was toppled -it was self inflicted and well you know it --do not give me this Suthep tripe. I don't give a fig for her or the PTP as it happened they were the party that was not democratic, I would have given any party hell if they abused the same as they did. I do not feel sorry for her one bit, she and PTP abused power and are paying for it.

Who Is the caretaker defense Minister now...? and all the other caretaker cabinet members continuing to keep this whole thing running...?

The ones getting the decrees? the ones attempting to get people paid... the ones committed to doing what they are mandated to do until a new election or other occurrences that may change the game...?You...? You are now the caretaker everything..? Darn..I missed that one! Sorry to have disrespected you omnipotent one... Go on rant your rants ... you keep repeating them over and over... that is fine... but no matter how much you spit into the wind the fact remains she is still at this moment the caretaker PM despite of the millions and millions of baht and hundreds and hundreds of demands thrown at her... by the un democratic _Democrat Party, Suthep and all his cronies... and anybody with a sober.. look at all of this can see that every Pm here as far back as there have been PM's probably have had things go badly or flat out been exposed for corruption... including the party that you may cheer for now so at this point self- righteousness is ill spent... and I care not who you pity, or you you feel sorry for..it has nothing to do with the OP

You are trying to tell me what--what a fantastic PM she has been ??? PTP have performed flawlessly???

They are attempting to get people paid ??? you think every one is stupid ?? they had the money to pay before any protests and they didn't. WHY ??

My posts are not rants I try to put facts down but that goes against the grain of posters like you in denial--yes it it the same rhetoric but why do you reply with denial remarks all the time, you should be ashamed of yourself for aiding and abetting a regime. BUT it is your choice-freedom of speech and all that.

Read my post... I never said she was a fantastic PM anywhere..... you play a game of disassociate reasoning by trying to inject your suppositions into my text..I never mentioned anything about PTP... you have them haunting you I guess... go rant your rants on a relevant post but try and stick to the topic here... and don't attempt to insert conjecture in my text with your suppositions... I deny nothing things are what they are.. I merely made a comment about a hopeful resolution and given all the negativity it may have some kind of positive outcome the two of them talking and him trying... but I rather doubt it because he to date has been the least effectual one in the whole scheme of things..

Actually she is countering his thrust with a parry... and smart to do it ...if indeed there ever is an election the politicking has already begun. She also said she would meet with him,,, so she certainly cannot faulted for that..she is giving him more credence than Suthep for which she had no reason whatsoever to mediate with as he is only an insurrectionist not a possible counterpart in politics in the future...or is he...LOL.. who knows...if Abhisit's efforts result in something substantial.. and something do-able she'd be foolish to have closed the door in advance..it is to everyone's benefit... I have this feeling that deals are already in the works and will undoubtedly be surprised again over the next few months...a more moderate landing may yet come to pass.. though so far I have yet to see Abhisit's plan so will have to wait a few more days for that... but this press release is no more toxic that Abhisit's claim that he has the support of the SC who agrees with him that all sides need to work together... wonder what the headlines will be tomorrow.. Suthep's cat had kitten's...?

Yingluck is not in a position to do any deals, she is crawling-trying to be a sweet mouth.

Had 3 years -new exactly what her party were up to, got into big time Dung, now in mega trouble and losing support every day.

Yingluck is trying to save as much face as possible. Wish I could believe her good intentions, her history she gave to me doesn't sway me.

It even looks like --"I'm sorry" time, so do what you can.

Well until the ruling she is still there... no matter what you think will happen or are convinced will happen or have knowledge of that I don't...she is still there she did not capitulate within any of the deadlines or declarations by Suthep ... she did not fold, she did not topple with all that Suthep and his mob threw at her and you can be as happy as a pig in a poke when and if she is finally toppled by the judiciary coup,,, or an actual military coup but until then... all parties are now in a face save mode... so we will still have to wait a bit longer... i still believe a lot of us will be surprised with the final outcome.. some maybe even delighted...

Are you trying to tell me she is still there ?? she did not fold you said---she did not topple---she was toppled -it was self inflicted and well you know it --do not give me this Suthep tripe. I don't give a fig for her or the PTP as it happened they were the party that was not democratic, I would have given any party hell if they abused the same as they did. I do not feel sorry for her one bit, she and PTP abused power and are paying for it.

So who is the caretaker Pm now...?

Who Is the caretaker defense Minister now...? and all the other caretaker cabinet members continuing to keep this whole thing running...?

The ones getting the decrees? the ones attempting to get people paid... the ones committed to doing what they are mandated to do until a new election or other occurrences that may change the game...?You...? You are now the caretaker everything..? Darn..I missed that one! Sorry to have disrespected you omnipotent one... Go on rant your rants ... you keep repeating them over and over... that is fine... but no matter how much you spit into the wind the fact remains she is still at this moment the caretaker PM despite of the millions and millions of baht and hundreds and hundreds of demands thrown at her... by the un democratic _Democrat Party, Suthep and all his cronies... and anybody with a sober.. look at all of this can see that every Pm here as far back as there have been PM's probably have had things go badly or flat out been exposed for corruption... including the party that you may cheer for now so at this point self- righteousness is ill spent... and I care not who you pity, or you "feel sorry" for..it has nothing to do with the OP

Well apparently he's been a good student and deserves whatever accolades accompany that and I add mine to those...but... The headline doesn't read

PARIT WACHARASINDHU - first Thai to lead top Oxford society why not...? ...and indeed is a year old.. It reads Abhisit's nephew..

so we get the point right...Keep that name associated in the press with something good... politicking at it's finest well done Kuhn Abhisit ( sarcasm)

Nice headline...

Glad I didn't hold my breath.

Well ...he has given himself a week to float this "minor reform"..whatever it is...

My question is What next...? what if whatever this minor reform is doesn't float..? Business as usual? Boycott elections again?

- go forward with the election and we make a promise to reform that we must keep...if the EC can guarantee a clean election, and put a constriction on campaign promises.....why not take the plunge for real reform as has been touted and start by sacking the entire EC as well...

Hopefully he will have something more substantive to say before he ends his role.

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.

Veerrrry convenient. I read one link, didn't agree with it so I will completely dismiss everything else. Ain't that always the way......................................

Yeah and that data was also in Wikpedia and I directly referenced it with links and still ... so ..ya can lead a horse to water...

Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.

If what you are spreading is supposed to be education (which it's not) then I'll stick to ignorance from sources which have some credibility and independence. Not just the local newspapers BTW.

In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say. Lies I say. They have a bias which comes from Thaksin's efforts to either buy them or suppress their freedom back when he was suing journalists and buying ITV for his propaganda.

Your use of 'education' resembles the type taught at red shirt schools which in reality is brainwashing. Stay washed Dirtfarmer - at least I will know what to expect in your posts.

Abhisit pretends to be reasonable. In fact he is the opposite. He and his party decided to boycott the February elections, and people who block elections, in my view, are the lowest of the low. Added to the charge-sheet is that fact that Abhisit connives with the criminal Suthep, who advocates kidnapping the PM, demonising the Shinewatras, and an extreme policy of opposing democracy.

As a result, I would place Abhisit in the Thai pantheon of political criminals down there with the fascist Phubul, the corruptest-of-the-corrupt Sarit, and the infamous book-burner Thanin.

This fellow Oak seems not to have commited any such crimes from what I can gather. He seems to support democracy.

* out of likes...

but LIKE !

The more radical he stays the more moderate his bunkmate becomes... Suthep jumped the shark months ago..so we will see , but he can't fade now... he has proved he is untouchable ( so far) so he has to help set up Kuhn Abhisit as the moderate spiritual peaceful grand high exalted mystic ruler..and by continuing his radicalism allows the whistleblowers the face saving transition to what they can claim is a two-phased/faced effort by now following that lead...at least that is what I am hearing in my building now, from the diminishing numbers still discussing this ordeal. They are talking about Abhiset now not sharing the whistle adorned, peace sign flashing selfies from Asok... I hope there won't be clashes insigated by him or others from the other sides/factions/third parties.. but what is very clear is now the introduction of the "elders" will undoubtedly change this whole tragedy so we wait and see... couple of weeks away yet...wonder how many times we see Kuhn Abhiset pop up...

Supposedly from another report on this in the other news media The Man of State group was formed back on Jan 28 and the video of its meeting was posted the following day. Its members believe the current crisis needs to be solved by the intervention of the army and His Majesty the King, so I don’t think it is a passive instrument… one can only hope that it doesn’t make Suthep a hero, though in the eyes of many he already has acquired that status will be an interesting month going forward.

Jan. was a long time ago. It is possible that things have evolved.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I hope so for sure and think we all feel the same way about that...

Supposedly from another report on this in the other news media The Man of State group was formed back on Jan 28 and the video of its meeting was posted the following day. Its members believe the current crisis needs to be solved by the intervention of the army and His Majesty the King, so I don’t think it is a passive instrument… one can only hope that it doesn’t make Suthep a hero, though in the eyes of many he already has acquired that status will be an interesting month going forward.

Wonder if Kuhn Suthep is going to take credit for the Man of State Effort now seemingly going forward..wonder if any of them are his buddies Someone has go to go to this rally of rallies and hear what Suthep actually says ...probably Blue Sky will cover it..? Hopefully un edited

PDRC figure Satit Wongnongtaey said the highlight of the event will be the talk by Mr.Suthep at 21.00 hrs on April 27th, as well as insisting that the protest will develop intensity after the celebration of the 180 day anniversary.

Oh no! Liverpool and Chelsea going head to head at the same time or slightly before ! Darn! I wish he would choose more appropriate times!

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Well Kunken it is not true to say the Dems didn't do much to combat corruption while they were in office.

For a start the ratified the UN convention against corruption in 2011 which had been sitting on the table for quite some years.

They also got corruption heading down in spite of having to take on the parasite parties in order to make up a Govt.

Parties which were and still are only there to get as much out of it as possible and will go with whoever offers the most.

I will post the graph (again) which shows clearly the slight drop in the Dem years and the spike during the PT administration.

576x544xCorruption-Perceptions-Index-THAILAND-2.jpg.pagespeed.ic.NKNgav0HXt1.jpg

Zero of course being least corrupt.

I believe you have inverted the facts... Zero is the most corrupt

Explanatory notes*

* CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts, and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt).

** Confidence range provides a range of possible values of the CPI score. This reflects how a country's score may vary, depending on measurement precision. Nominally, with 5 percent probability the score is above this range and with another 5 percent it is below. However, particularly when only few sources are available, an unbiased estimate of the mean coverage probability is lower than the nominal value of 90%.

*** Surveys used refers to the number of surveys that assessed a country's performance. 12 surveys and expert assessments were used and at least 3 were required for a country to be included in the CPI.

- See more at: http://archive.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2006#sthash.Se2edjza.dpuf

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corruption-perception-index.asp

Definition of 'Corruption Perception Index - CPI'

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2006/09/just_how_corrupt_was_thaksin.html

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

Of course they are relvant as are others written by other Thais because they provide the backdrop for what is happening currently...

your refusal to address the age old underlying factors only displays the shallowness you are limited by in trying to understand the game that is being played out... now If you had a more un biased agenda and an understanding of perspective.. taught by History which here is clearly repeated over and over again in the LOS via the same tactics just different faces you may think differently... on second thought naw... don't waste your time... you are stuck in a varry narrow Soi and prefer to stay there I wish you all the best seeya in a coupla years after your One Trick Pony fails the hurdle again... meanwhile I offer additional links to provide you avenues of genuine research to do... in case you may be interested I enjoyed reading most of them...Cheers!

A History of Thailand, Thaksin:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=TEdueeBj1H0C&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=A+History+of+Thailand,+Thaksin:&source=bl&ots=Gt0Z6mPVlL&sig=oij5Jb90RzOl76L6QecWPnozPr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9kNaU760Dsb9rAertYHQDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=A%20History%20of%20Thailand%2C%20Thaksin%3A&f=false

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

Contrary to your inference, I do know a bit about the wealthy families and the army and the commissions, some of which pre-date the last coup despite your attempt to denigrate them.

What is clear is that you make accusations and refuse to back them up which tends to point at a very skewed view of That politics. Also here you are making up a case against Abhisit and then denying that you have any political bias regarding Thailand. It's far too much to swallow given that you have only targeted one side of the political make-up here.

'rose to 40%, it has been pointed out'? By who or is this just another made-up piece of propaganda from the side that you are reluctant to criticise. I respond to posts and pay attention to the content which tends to reveal much more than any pretence of fairness. It is pure tripe & dishonest to claim that your posts in this thread are anything but biased diatribes against one person.

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers

BTW - no I'm not arrogant enough to claim a 'big mind', just a normal one.

You continue to blame Abhisit for being responsible for the current mess when it is clearly PTP (with assistance from Suthep) who are the ones to blame. You can't even bring yourself to mention the amnesty bill which started the crisis.

Abhisit certainly has been against the PTP mob - that's very much an opposition's job. He has been under fire from the relentless Thaksin fuelled DSI over a number of cases - even one as puerile as using electronic funds transfer rather than a cheque. It has all been a failed attempt to get him to submit to the amnesty which, to his great credit, he refused to do. That it has made him oppose PTP even more is hardly surprising.

That the solution to the crisis will be found behing closed doors - I agree with that. As far as web sites with opinion is concerned, many are highly biased, often with scant knowledge of Thai politics and some with agendas that provide more propaganda than fact. I ignore them now after seeing some of the tripe that they spout.

You say that the wealth of the top 10 members of the Democrat party increased exponentially while in power. I'm going to call this another lie as you have made no attempt to back this up. Proof and I'll apologise.

The article was not 'invented by the Nation as it was similarly published in the Bangkok Post. Yes, it had nothing much new but it is as much news as yet another tissue of lies from Thaksin about giving up politics.

Unfortunately for PTP and yourself, the genie is out of the bottle. Suthep has managed to raise the corruption issue into a battle between those who want to do something to abate it and those who want to continue ripping off the country's wealth. Again blaming Abhisit is a straw man argument - manufacture all sorts of crap against him and then shoot it down. Dishonest argument.

I am not just talking about websites I am talking about books histories of Thailand etc. including this one authored by Thais

Corruption and Democracy in Thailand

http://www.silkwormbooks.com/each_titles/e_thailand/corruption_6.htm

It is a great read.. first published in the 90's and then re issued shortly after 2000

with regards to Abhisets MP corruption and MPS wealth increase directly reference [210] at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

Lots to read both above and below that..

Sorry to see you are snagged on the amnesty bill issue.. it provides great fodder for the current uprising but Abhisits inability to serve up anything other than fluff goes way back beyond that...to the Chuan Leekpai Suthep mess... his mentor I may add. and advisor to the Dems...and just plainly that no matter what they offer up as reforms it will not happen... there are too many people affected by it...even if they tried it would be futile

Try and google some other books on Client-patronage relationships to Thai politics... that will help also... some of us do not rely on just "websites" or colored Thai Media for our background...

Sorry to see you are still stuck on the PTP VS Dems so hard that you refuse to look a little bit higher on the rung... google the 10 wealthies Thai Families.. their relationship to Thai Politics, the Generals the Junta appointed Commisions and "independent agencies... search these people out it is a long exhaustive process but might get you to the point where you stop lumping everybody who is critical of something you are not into a colored shirt.. I am not a PTP supporter.. nor a Dem supporter... I just am not a fan of Abhisit either.. nor am I a fan of the old school patronage client relationship in Thai governments in place today and all previous years since 1932 sin nam jai (spelling?) very old school .. the addition of adding 20-30 percent to any govt contract for facilitation by certain individuals...which incidentally rose to almost 40% it has been pointed out during Abhisit's term in office...at any rate... lot of reading to do and stop with the inference that I support any Thai Political faction .....pure schoolyard tripe

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Lies, ignorance and verbose.

It is a lie to say that Abhisit has been 'very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...'. The whole mess was started by PTP's 'bring Thaksin home' amnesty bill triggering mass rallies, Suthep's various groups and the government resigning without first ensuring that money was available for the farmers.

It is just stupid to expect him to release his reform proposals as, no matter what they are, will not be acceptable to PTP. Suthep has proposed a number of reforms that even some PTP/red shirt supporters on this forum have agreed with but the party can't even allow the reform word to be mentioned without condemnation (or election this, election that, we win we do what we like, etc, etc).

While it is true that the Democrat party did little to combat corruption while in power, they didn't make it worse and the scale never reached the Thaksin heights. But they did have a bill prepared to tax land, particularly unused land. This bill was quickly dropped by Yingluck (no doubt on bro's orders).

One can criticise Abhisit for various things like being too mild a leader, but small minds attributing (inventing) things to him that have nothing to do with him is nothing more than lies.

Not lies... Abhisit has been on this train since losing their last election... he has been relentless in his opposition to this government since the inception of the most recent term... that is not a lie.. this mess is a direct result of their inability to affect the voting public with a better platform for the country or an offer of a better future... had there been any substantive manifesto coming from the Democrat party, at all in the last 6 years that the people could perceive as an alternative much less a better alternative going forward.. the Dems might be able to make some headway through normal channels... but they had nothing... they offered nothing, except their scorn for the electorate and the removal of a process that allowed the people to have a say... Most non Bangkok people now are fed up with the entire politic process including not caring to vote as they say their votes will not be counted and have no meaning... this plays perfectly into the hands of these players and their supporters... so for you to even intimate this all started with the amnesty bill is extremely naive and reflects your inability to look at a greater picture than the one suggested by daily Thai Media posted here.. There are a plethora of other sources out there, highly informative and educational and provide a much broader view, particularily of things we are forbidden to speak about here or in Thailand in general (archaic, but it is what it is) regardless of the color of your crayons.

He has touted reform as his banner for the last 8 years little of which was ever implemented... he is well aware that very little will be implemented by him or anyone else...it just goes too deep..They cannot manage reform...to many snouts in the trough.. Two years down the road I will be interested to see what if anything "reform-wise" has happened..just a buzz word.. and a worn out one coming from him.

You know well and good that the resolution of this entire mess is not going to be played out in the press, nor in the eyes or view of the public.. but rather some kind of deals will be struck with the most amount of face saving on all sides as possible... We will not see lynch-mobs... The "Thai" way will be worked out out of your or my reach and will be placed on the shoulders of the Thai People who will undoubtedly have to bear whatever that resolution is..and will probably be happy it is all over and go back to their lives without all thus bruhaha.

Correct very little was done by the Dems with regard to corruption but the top ten party members wealth increased exponentially in the 2 years they were in office they also realized that reform was going to be a much bigger deal than they had imagined and promptly abandoned it... Until recently.. Through villification of the blunders of the current administration and the polarization and the division of the masses and the insurrectionist acts of Abhisits cronies.. they are most assuredly responsible for a huge chunk of what is going on at the moment.

I did not invent anything... I responded to what Abhisit and the Nation invented it in this article..and it was indeed nothing new... Another thread here in TVF ENtitled ABhisit offers... blah blah blah echos this same meritless attention grabbing lull we find ourselves in awaiting the inevitable outcomes..

Abhisit as much as he is liked by the elites is way too polarized in the eyes of the nation as a whole to have any substantial input respected.. Unfortunately he may be all the Dems have at this point... Perhaps some other groups can offer better.

Small minds...? thank you.. unfortunately we cannot all have the big mind that you proffer you have...Cheers