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Priceless
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One more vote for Dr Morgan. And she gives you all the time that you need for explanations, discussions etc.
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Try Rimping or TOPS (part-owned by Waitrose), but be prepared to pay a horrific price for it !
Have tried Rimping, plenty of Cheddar, lots of exotic stuff too but have never seen Cheshire. I noticed a Thai dairy products place while searching on the Internet that claims to make Lancashire cheese which I think is pretty similar so if anybody has seen this for sale (their website only mentions outlets in Pattaya)
I suggest that you go back to Rimping every once in a while, since what they have in stock changes considerably over time. I have even seen Sage Derby in there (the Nim City shop)
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The usual answer, with which I agree whole-heartedly, is Vision Center in Rajvitthi Rd. It's near to the UN Irish Pub, same side but a little closer to Moon Muang.
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I just noticed these replies to my post. Thanks for these graph, good info. I am surprised though by the numbers in CM in March.
March is bad, but usually not quite that bad. The average at 108.3 µg/m3 is strongly influenced by two extreme highs, 153.9 µg/m3 in 2004 and 161.7 in 2007.
That's another way of saying "March is bad, but sometimes it's WAY worse". That's what averages are, right.
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I just noticed these replies to my post. Thanks for these graph, good info. I am surprised though by the numbers in CM in March.
March is bad, but usually not quite that bad. The average at 108.3 µg/m3 is strongly influenced by two extreme highs, 153.9 µg/m3 in 2004 and 161.7 in 2007.
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I believe this is what you are looking for: http://www.koolpuntville.com/pro9_en.html
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CM would be perfect if it wasn't for the March burning season. As WTK said some years it's not so bad - but there have been many years where it was extremely bad - health risk bad IMO.
There is no escaping this issue, and even local governments even if they wanted to couldn't do much about it as the problem is everywhere in a very large area covering Burma, Laos, and northern Thailand. Apart from the fact that no-one's doing anything about it - the government of Chiang Mai hilariously blamed Korean Barbecues a few years back - even if they did, it would be a very long, slow process to get every single villager and hill tribe and farmer in this large area to change their ways and use some alternative to the burning. On the plus side there never are any big, life-threatening forest fires here like there are in the USA - because the underbrush is burned away every year.
[...]
In fact, the air pollution situation is improving rather rapidly. As you can seee from this graph, the average pollution level has decreased by more than a third since mid-2004:
Since you are considering relocating from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, the following comparison of pollution in Din Daeng (sorry, only BKK numbers that I have) and Chiang Mai:
As you can see the March pollution is much worse in Chiang Mai, the February and April values are roughly comparable but for the rest of the year Chiang Mai is much better.
Welcome to the Rose of the North!
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Electrified. Good point. I didn't know they made Volvo's in Thailand and assumed it was imported years ago. Does anyone know how I can find out where the car was made?
I haven't found any definitive evidence, but as far as I know Volvo never 'made' cars in Thailand (or anywhere outside of Sweden and Belgium). What they did in Thailand, Malaysia, South Africa and possibly elsewhere was assemble cars from CKD (Completely Knocked Down) kits. This means that all the components came from Volvo's normal supply chain. I think that you would be hard put to find any quality difference between Volvos assembled in different locations.
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Agree with Nikster that is is not only a localized problem, and its hard to see it ever getting any better when even (many) farang here are in denial and kidding themselves that there is not a problem.
Even if the Thai got their act together, what about the surrounding countries?
btw, that's a very big IF
(has anyone noticed that riding a motorbike without a helmet is illegal?)
If you look at the graph in post #29 above, you'll see that the trend for average yearly pollution has fallen by more than a third since mid-2004. I call that getting significantly better, but you may define the word "better" differently.
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The WHO guidelines are a complicated subject, but to (over)simplify a bit, the WHO Air Quality Guidelines (AQG) of 20 and 50, respectively, are values below which science at present has not been able to demonstrate any adverse effects from ambient air pollution. This is implicit in the fact that WHO also has three 'Intermediate Targets' for each guideline, as indicated in these two tables:
Chiang Mai's yearly average is currently in the 'Intermediate Target 2' range, bordering on 'Intermediate Target 3' by this year's result. The city rates very favourably in this context and has also been on a quite strongly positive trend (i.e. towards lower levels) for at least the last 7½ years.
WHO has relatively recently published a list of 1,082 cities worldwide with their respective yearly average pollution levels. Of these cities 490 (i.e. a minority) are within the AQG. What is more interesting is that of these 490, only four (4) have a tropical climate (Belo Horizonte and its neighbour Ibrité in Brazil, Mauritius and Pekanbaru in Indonesia). You will find that if the lowest pollution level is a priority for you, you'll probably have to leave the tropics.
/ Priceless
Edit: Winnie posted while I was writing my reply. My reply is more verbose, his is more directly to the point.
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Just to put this discussion into perspective:
The Thai Pollution Control Department has two standards for Particulate Matter Pollution (PM10):
- The yearly average level should not exceed 50 µg/m3.
- The daily average should not exceed 120 µg/m3 for any 24-hour period.
This year in Chiang Mai (with four days to go) has had an average level of 33.2 µg/m3. There has not been a single day in excess of 120 µg/m3, in fact the maximum value recorded this year was 92.0 µg/m3. These levels make 2011 the best year on record (pollution-wise).
As concerns the present month the average, at 44.3 µg/m3, has been slightly better than an average December, though not as good as December of last year which was the best on record. There has not been a single observation in excess of 60 µg/m3, i.e. half the PCD standard. In fact, you have to go back to April 6th to find an observation in excess of 60 µg/m3.
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Can recommend "bts travel service", always best and reliable service and best rates
Based on this recommendation, I tasked BTS travel to arrange my trip to the USA in April. BIG MISTAKE.
The customer service was fine UNTIL they got my 53,000 Baht. After that, they basically ignored my many requests for receipts, flight confirmations, and seat selection confirmations. I have logged over a dozen phone calls and many dozen emails to get them to respond. The responses have taken up to THREE months, and then they were in error. The requests to fix errors also went without reply.
This is the most frustrating experience I have have had, EVER, with any travel agency. I am a veteran traveler to over 30 countries over a period of 40 years, and have never been treated in such a shabby way.
I sympathize with your problems. However, there is one thing I don't understand: Based on a recommendation in a post from less than six weeks ago, you decided to use the services of BTS Travel. You have since "logged over a dozen phone calls and many dozen emails to get them to respond". Then you add: "The responses have taken up to THREE months", i.e. you were expecting their response 1½ months before you contacted them? Does your time run backwards?
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"It would be excellent if it could be a New Year gift for Thaksin," he said.
It would be interesting if His Excellency would tell the world what New Year's gifts he is planning for all other fugitive criminals
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CPI
Thailand's ranking shows decrease in corruption levels
Corruption in Thailand appears to have decreased a little this year, with the nation ranking 80th among 183 countries on the 2011 Corruption Perception Index (CPI). Last year, Thailand was placed the 78th among 178 countries.
The ranking was released on Thursday by Transparency International, said Transparency Thailand Secretary General Juree Vichit-Vadakan.
The country received 3.4 points on a scale of 0-10, and ranked 80th among 183 countries on the list. Ten points means a country has a low corruption level, while zero equates to a high level of corruption.
Apart from its global position, Thailand was ranked 10th among 26 Asian countries, with Singapore getting the highest transparency score at 9.2 out of a possible 10.
Juree said that this year Thailand shared the same rank as Columbia, El Salvador, Greece, Morocco and Peru.
Most countries on the list scored less than 50 per cent, Juree said. Only 49 countries received more than five points.
New Zealand achieved 9.5 points and ranked first as the least corrupt globally, followed by Denmark and Finland at 9.4 points, while Somalia and North Korea jointly rated the most corrupt in the world with a 1.0 point score.
CPI is a composite index, a combination of polls, drawing on corruption-related data from experts and business surveys carried out by a variety of reputable independent institutions.
Juree said that the CPI index as a tool encourages governments and the public worldwide to realise the severe impact of corruption, both domestic and international, in order to jointly tackle the problem.
She said that awareness of corruption in Thailand is growing, and that many sectors have taken part in battling the problem.
She also praised Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) for launching its "Growing Good" programme. This initiative aims to empower Thai youths in kindergarten to grade three by teaching them social values and ethics to fight corruption over the longer term.
-- The Nation 2011-12-01
Another brilliant analysis by The Nation. Thailand this year ranked 80th and scored 3.4 on a scale of 0-10 with 10 being best. Last year it ranked 78th and scored 3.5. I'll admit that the change is probably not statistically significant, but if anything Thai corruption has increased, not decreased.
On the other hand, that analysis demands an understanding of decimals, which is probably to much to ask
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Having read in an earlier post that Immigration now has someone on duty during their lunch hour to accept 90-day reports, I dropped in around 12:30 last Thursday. When I arrived there was no one at the desk, but I decided to stand arund and wait. After less than a minute a smartly uniformed youngish man arrived and asked "90-day report?" I answered in the affirmative and handed him my papers. He took a very quick look at my TM47, opened my passport for an equally quick look, signed my form and added his signature and the relevant stamps, tore off the receipt and stapled it to the passport and handed it back to me.
In and out in less than three minutes, probably closer to two. No guarantees for others with 90-day reports to make, but I was a very happy customer
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Traditionally the famous place was the one next to the Holiday Inn. However I don't think that's still the case; past glory.
A very solid place IMHO that sells tons is at Mae Hia market on the Canal Road, just South of the MIddle Ring. The place predates the market I think. You can also purchase fresh (un-grilled) Sai Uai in any quantity to takeaway and grill later.
It's on the outside of the market, close to where the parking is in front, near the spirit houses.
I couldn't agree more, it is deeelicious
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doesn't Chiang Mai have bike lanes around the inside of the canals? Doesn't mean the cars don't use them as well, but I thought they did put them in.
MSPain
They are mostly used as an excuse for Thai motorcyclists to go backwards on one way streets.
That's interesting UG, making motorbikes with reverse gears now are they
Actually they do, I have one (three-wheeler) in the old country
110 cc engine by Lifan./ Priceless
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Official launch of IKEA tomorrow. Free shuttle bus from BTS Udomsuk. First 20 million baht donated to flood victims/via@Richardbarrow
That's what I like about Swedes. When they act they do it boldly and not talking only.
They have already donated a large sum of money, plus the prospect of useful commodities.
The company may be swedish but IKEA stores in many countries are franchises. It is a local franchise and I will believe it (20 million donated to flood victims) only if it is completely transparent.
As of last year, IKEA worldwide had 313 stores of which 34 were franchises. The Bangkok store is NOT a franchise.
On the other hand, why check the facts before posting? Truth is sooo BORING!
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You'd probably get more responses posting in the Chiang Mai forum, but until then you can check out: http://www.florahouse.4t.com/
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I am not a lawyer, so I can't say whether the underscored (by me) above constitutes defamation. Anyway, the following is from the Wikipedia page on IKEA:
Environmental performance
After initial environmental issues like the highly publicized formaldehyde scandals in the early 1980s and 1992, IKEA took a proactive stance on environmental issues and tried to prevent future incidents through a variety of measures.[51] In 1990, IKEA invited Karl-Henrik Robèrt, founder of The Natural Step, to address its board of directors. Robert's system conditions for sustainability provided a strategic approach to improving the company's environmental performance. In 1990, IKEA adopted The Natural Step framework as the basis for its environmental plan.[52] This led to the development of an Environmental Action Plan, which was adopted in 1992. The plan focused on structural change, allowing IKEA to "maximize the impact of resources invested and reduce the energy necessary to address isolated issues."[52] The environmental measures taken, include the following:
1.Replacing polyvinylchloride (PVC) in wallpapers, home textiles, shower curtains, lampshades, and furniture—PVC has been eliminated from packaging and is being phased out in electric cables;
2.minimizing the use of formaldehyde in its products, including textiles;
3.eliminating acid-curing lacquers;
4.producing a model of chair (OGLA) made from 100% post-consumer plastic waste;
5.introducing a series of air-inflatable furniture products into the product line. Such products reduce the use of raw materials for framing and stuffing and reduce transportation weight and volume to about 15% of that of conventional furniture;
6.reducing the use of chromium for metal surface treatment;
7.limiting the use of substances such as cadmium, lead, PCB, PCP, and AZO pigments;
8.using wood from responsibly managed forests that replant and maintain biological diversity; (underscored by me)
9.using only recyclable materials for flat packaging and "pure" (non-mixed) materials for packaging to assist in recycling.[52]
10.introducing rental bicycles with trailers for customers in Denmark.[53]
More recently, IKEA has stopped providing plastic bags to customers, but offers reusable bags for sale. The IKEA restaurants also only offer reusable plates, knives, forks, spoons, etc. Toilets in some IKEA restrooms have been outfitted with dual-function flushers. IKEA has recycling bins for compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs), energy saving bulbs, and batteries. In 2001 IKEA was one of the first companies to operate its own cross-border freight trains through several countries in Europe.[54]
In August 2008, IKEA also announced that it had created IKEA GreenTech, a €50 million venture capital fund. Located in Lund (a college town in Sweden), it will invest in 8–10 companies in the coming five years with focus on solar panels, alternative light sources, product materials, energy efficiency, and water saving and purification. The aim is to commercialise green technologies for sale in IKEA stores within 3–4 years.[55][56]
In order to make IKEA a more sustainable company a product life cycle has been created, and there is now a never ending list. The idea stage says that products should be flat packed so more can be shipped at once, and that products should be easy to dismantle and recycle. Raw materials are used, and since wood and cotton are two of the most important products in IKEA production so IKEA makes the most out of every tree and cotton plant, and works with environmentally friendly forests and cotton without the excessive use of chemicals and water. Manufacturing comes third in the life cycle and includes IWAY which is IKEA's code of conduct for manufactures and suppliers which makes and enforces requirements for working conditions, social and environmental standards, and what suppliers can expect from them in return. Marketing is another part of IKEA's life cycle and as much of their paper for their catalogs comes from responsibly managed forests. The catalog is also now made smaller which requires less paper, and less waste in the process. This also enables more catalogs to be shipped per load. IKEA stores recycle waste, and many run on renewable energy, and energy-saving bulbs and sensors are used. All employees are trained in environmental and social responsibility, and IKEA strives to give customers access to good public transit, and well as the stores being involved in the local community. IKEA products help customers to live a more sustainable life at home. The coffee served is also certified organic. The last stage of the life cycle is the end of life. Most IKEA stores take back burned out light bulbs and drained batteries and makes sure they are recycled responsibly. IKEA is also currently working on developing a way to take back recycled sofas and other home furnishing products that have reached their own end of life.
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Of course they want to open on time. There is going to be a lot of people looking to buy new furniture in a couple of weeks.
Then, Ikea is not the place to shop. Ikea furniture is predominately wood chip and veneer type. This type of wood furniture does not respond well to high humidity environments.As well, when it comes in contact with moisture it tends to breakdown. Ikea is the destination of choice for cost conscious younger demographics who aren't buying forthe long term. Perfect for the Bangkok urbanites in their highrise condos, high above the flood zones. Searching for the missing screw or trying to figure out the convoluted instructions will give these people hours of fun that will distract from the flood worries.
On a completely different aspect, Ikea has set a good example with its treatment of its employees if what is reported is true. Perhaps, it will inspire some local retailers, both Thai and foreign owned to treat their workers with more compassion and respect. BTW, Ikea food isn't that good except when they import the specialty grav lax or pickled haring. It's so difficult to find the right haring here. I anticipate that the gingerbread houses will arrive in time for Christmas. ikea, makes a product that is practically indestructible.
It might be a good idea to check your facts before you post. When I moved to Thailand five years ago, I brought a lot of IKEA furniture such as bookcases, cupboards, a sofa, a dining table and chairs etc. None of this is showing the slightest sign of having been impacted by humidity.
If you don't know what you're talking about, it is a better idea to be quiet and let people think that you are an idiot than to open your mouth and prove the point.
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I think there is a Swiss consulate in Mae Rim on the grounds of Summit Green Valley Golf Club
yep, there is a sign for one there, go in the front gate and down to the turning circle and go right for a few hundred meters, it is on the left
I feel compelled to point out that, contrary to public perception, there is a difference between Switzerland and Sweden
The consulate of the latter is at the indicated location in Green Valley./ Priceless
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Hi PL, thanks for your thoughtful reply. If I'm right in thinking that there is single sampling point per city (3 in Chiang Mai), I would definitely consider the results of inter-city comparisons to be spurious. However, I'm happy if others believe that a single sampling point can be representative of the air quality across an entire city (which it would need to be for inter-city comparisons to be valid).
I'd be delighted to continue this over a beer if we ever by chance found ourselves in the same bar - statistically about as likely as 2 mosquitoes colliding in Wembley stadium :-) but for the time being I`ve got to get on with the pressing business of harvesting that darned rice! All the best.
Yes, you are right in your thinking, though there are only two sampling points in Chiang Mai. The one called 'Chiangmai' (in one word) is in effect a mobile station, i.e. you don't know where it is/was stationed at any given time. Most often it is at Phu Ping palace, which also puts it in a different air mass to 'Chiang Mai' and 'Uparaj' (>3,000 ft higher up).
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Hi PL, Limbo
Well I can see we share an interest in stats, in fact my master’s thesis was in statistical analysis (albeit in insurance rather than meteorology) but I hope no-one on this forum holds that against me ;-) Yesterday I had a quick look at the graph when refuelling coffee on the highway – now I’ve had a better look at it.
So – what does the graph show ? – air pollution figures collected for each provincial capital at a single collection point (2 in the case of Chiang Mai) and averaged over 2 years 2009/2010 (except Phrae and Payao 2010 only). My observations below are based upon eyeballing the graph (ie not using a calculator to find exact values) alongside a map of the region. Some of my observations are presented in a devil’s advocacy sort of way, please don’t take them as a personal attack! I would like to include a lot more possible interpretations but space and time won’t permit.
What can we say for certain from this graph? That for each provincial capital air pollution is comparatively static from June to November when it starts trending upwards, peaking around the end of the first quarter. Also the variation in air quality for each city is significant, ranging from around 300 % (Phrae) to 600% (Mae Hong Song). Also that the pollution values are pretty similar for all cities in the low months, but vary substantially in the high months.
I’d say that almost any other interpretation of this graph is open to vigorous challenges ;-)
Can we say from this that Chiang Mai city is less polluted than Chiang Rai city – actually no we can’t – we can say that Chiang Rai experiences a much greater swing in the high season than Chiang Mai . It all depends on the location of the air sampler – I’ve lived at Thapae and Nimmanhaemin, and I haven’t found anywhere more polluted in the entire region ! – ok ok that’s anecdotal not statistical. Some locations in Chang Rai city will undoubtedly be more polluted than Chiang Mai city, and vice versa.
Can we say that in general that the peak pollution is caused by neighbouring countries – actually no – Lampang is smack bang in the middle of Northern Thailand yet records the 3rd highest peak values (and incidentally records the highest pollution levels for around 5 months of the year). True, Chiang Rai’s and Mae Hong Song’s peak values indicate a possible effect from Burma, but Nan’s values would suggest no impact from Laos.
Some other questions which this graph cannot provide any interpretation for: is a microgramme of rice stubble pollution more or less toxic than a microgramme of vehicle exhaust pollution? What is the difference between the city and the country (no data for the latter unfortunately).
Now I’ve got to get on that polluting highway - have a good day!
WARNING! Long and boring post!
Hi Changraider,
My master's thesis was not in statistical analysis (it was in Management of Information Systems). However, I have used different statistical methods for most of my professional life. This doesn't mean very much in this case, though, since I don't use anything more advanced than 'average' (i.e. arithmetic mean) and 'trend' (i.e. linear regression).
Firstly, I am surprised that you don't stress the most obvious weakness of the graph more explicitly, that is that it is based on just slightly less than three years of data (2009, 2010 and ten months of 2011). This in itself means that there is quite a large margin of error. You do however point out another major weakness, that there is only one measuring point behind each series. I do wish that more data were available but, alas, they're not. In fact, until 2009 there were only three measuring points in all of northern Thailand for which the PCD published data (Chiang Mai, Uparaj and Lampang). I have decided to do the best that I can with the data available, rather than sit and wait for more data (it might be a long wait).
Secondly, you are quite right in pointing out that it is the height (and to an extent width) of the peak pollution that distinguishes between the different parts of northern Thailand. Actually, if it weren't for the peak it would not be very interesting to study this, since the North is among the least polluted areas of Thailand for the rest of the year.
To help in your analysis, I'll give you the aggregate numbers for the three years:
As you can see from the table, the average pollution level in Chiang Rai is about 20% higher than for Chiang Mai. You can also see that outside of the peak months the levels are pretty much equal. It is also worth noting that the number of 'bad days' (i.e. with PM10 >120 µg/m3) is about twice as high in Chiang Rai as in Chiang Mai (7.2% vs 3.5%). Taking this into consideration I maintain that, based on the available data, Chiang Rai has been more polluted than Chiang Mai over the last three years (at the measuring stations).
As for (a large proportion of) the pollution coming from neighbouring countries, this still an unproven (though highly likely) hypothesis of mine. I do however have a problem explaining the comparatively low numbers for Nan and am eagerly awaiting more data in the coming years (note the somewhat sparse data for Nan). Note also that Payao seems to support my hypothesis. Lampang is a different story altogether: They have their own pollution sources in the form of the Mae Moh power plant and its supporting lignite mines. As you might be aware, lignite fired power stations is one of the most polluting activities known to man.
It is also worth pointing out that of the three years (two in the case of Payao and Phrae) included in the graph and the table, one (2011) has had extremely low levels of pollution in the whole area, probably mostly due to a lot of unseasonal rainfall. This makes conclusions based on this material even shakier than they would otherwise have been.
You mention that you have 'lived at Thapae and Nimmanhaemin', unfortunately without mentioning when (please consider the downward trend shown in my earlier post). If I may interpret 'Thapae' as reasonably close to Thapae Gate, it is worth pointing out that the 'Uparaj' measuring station is located only about 500 metres from the gate.
There are of course many many questions that a couple of graphs and a table cannot answer. As e.g. the difference in 'toxicity' between rice stubble and vehicle exhaust pollution, this is of course way beyond the scope of what I am doing (and beyond my qualifications). It is however worth noting that the differences between 'Uparaj' which is right in the middle of the city and 'Chiang Mai' which is at the provincial office on the way to Mae Rim, i.e. a lot more 'rural', are quite small in comparison to the seasonal variations.
To finish off, thank you for taking the time to post a thoughtful discussion. I am always looking for (and seldom find) objective discussion about this subject, since it interests me and has given me occasion for both reading and thinking over the last 4-5 years.
/ Priceless
PS I didn't see the previous post by 'chiang mai' before my posting.
Vietnam Poised To Topple Thailand As World's Largest Rice Exporter
in Thailand News
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