plachon

fell into this thread but have been laughing until tears; read out loud to my 14 yr old boy after trying to explain why the toilets in the thai workers bathrooms have no t.p., and foot prints on the seats:

practice makes perfect and i learned to use the toilet reminiscent of the turkish toilets in parts of israel but minus the disgusting fly and t/p mess; washing with water is great especially when you are 'on the rag', in a hot climate rinsing prevents feminine problems and smell problems; but,

what do thai women do when they have their period? i know no tampons but arriving for my first visit, i had to ask a friend's wife, with my very limited issan thai, what to do with pads since no garbage can in hong nam, and obviously this doesnt go down the hole with a bowl of water...

This thread comes around more often than a dose of the squits and Abba re-releases Bina, but is still a goodie.

Your mastery of the English language is pretty darn impressive - "on the rag"being an example. Was this from living outside Israel for many years or all home learned?

As to your question, nowadays there's often a bin in the corner for jam rags and toilet paper, as more people convert to the joys of "civilization" and constant wall to wall advertising. But, I suspect there's a lot of rural women who've never used a manufactured pad in their lives, just wiping up with their pa-sin (long silk skirt) as it came out down inner legs. Must be a bugger trying to shoo away all the local dogs too, though the hubby is never a problem at that time of month.

What really bugs me is the guest houses, restaurants, etc., that have a sign saying "Don't put paper and sanitary towels in bowl, but use bin provided", then either don't have a bin or never empty it til it's flowing over.

Is there a local equivalent of Parkers Used Car guide to check prices I wonder? Probably not, but worth checking.

And anyone want to give a ballpark figure for what a reasonable nick 1.4 Opel Corsa (1994) ought to go for?

Thailand slashes 'Elite' tourist target after slow response

"SPECTACULAR FLOP"

Mr Somchainuk declined to reveal the new sales forecast, saying it was "confidential", but tried to put a positive spin on what some have labelled a spectacular flop.

"We haven't aggressively approached all markets in the world yet because we want to ensure that the service that we provide is satisfactory for all members...so it's starting as a slow process but (membership) is increasing at a good rate," he said.

Hmmmm, maybe there's a few potential customers in Zimbabwe, Malawi and Botwana that haven't yet been "aggessively approached" and could be persuaded to sign up for an Elite card or two..........?

But that does predispose that they have "aggressively approached" the other markets like Japan, Europe nort America and STILL have only managed to snare 500 punters foolish enough to part with $25 K, which doesn't exactly bode well for the rest of the world. Far be it from me to tell the Elite Card Co. how to do their jobs, but may I humbly suggest they lay off the "aggressive approach", treat potential visitors as intelligent humans and not ATMs, consider that not everyone wants to play golf and drive around in chauffeur-driven limos, and knock $24 K off the asking price. Then if you reach the 100, 000 total within the year, I'll let you off my consultancy fee, as a special favour.

It might also be time to start thinking about getting a first floor flat or moving into a bungalow, if they don't get a divorce first that is.

Hi Backyard (aka ex-Gentleman) Farmer,

Don't get the hump! Growing a few sweetcorn, cucumbers, chillis, asstd. eggplants, basil, asstd. gourds, papaya, tomatoes, asttd. beans, mint, lemon grass, galangal, tatties, yams, various herbs, etc., is all I do in the garden, so you're in good company! It beats busting your balls trying to make a living off hundreds of rai. I reckon anyone can be more or less self-sufficient for food, even on the most unfertile Isaan land, (so long as you've got a source of water to see you through the dry months) off about 3 -5 rai of land. anything past that is petty income with a poor return on labour, but a good return on healthy living if you reject the chemical route. But you would be living off your savings and wouldn't need the extra, so could affford to plant up the rest to long maturing hardwood trees, hire local people to tend them and which would give your children/grandchildren a nice inheritance in 30 - 50 years time when they mature!

Bina, can't download the intracen page, but IFOAM is interesting.

Some of the salf-affected land must be sodic I guess, but have never checked. Most Isaan land however, apart from little isolated pockets near limestone outcrops is acidic and apparently getting worse, according to a paper I read recently. Hence, boosting pH with lime amendments is an important part of land restoration and fertility improvement. I've noticed recently, more and more, chemical fertilisers also noting they contain Ca on the bags. On the one hand, I guess this is good, on the other, it suggests that more and more farmers are going the chemical route and are ignoring good old magic muck. The main problem is that the mnajority of farmers have now sold their cattle/buffalo to pay off debts or buy a pick-up/tractor/mobile/ VCD/etc., not realising the vital role these animals play to their future well-being. My father-in-law is no different, no matter how much I've tried to persuade him otherwise. He's now got zero animals on his farm and no money to buy fertiliser, so is a good case-study in Isaan farmer's priorities.

The future is not good i'm afraid, as the new breed of farmer who'll take their land off these small farmers, is likely to be an absentee landlord with little time or patience for landcare and ecological methods of farming.

Frank, if you live within striking distance of Khon Kaen, you can buy wholewheat flour at the Chaimaha bakery/supermarket, on Tanon Srichan, going East from the market towards Kalasin (ask around if you don't know KK well). They sell it by the kg, (about 35 baht/kg i think) but not sure about rye flour. My wife makes some mean wholewheat bread with sunlower seeds mixed in from it.

Chok dee.

At last the grim reality is starting to seep into the collective conscience of the opposition, that this is a hundred mile and hour juggernaut hurtling down a slope and the brakes are on the verge of failing. Only a miracle can save this sip-law from overturning now!

For any long-term members, they may recall that the impending crash was being strongly argued by myself and a certain guy called Butterfly, who eventually got banned (for reasons I'm still not to sure of) about a year back and it led to some very long and convoluted threads which are probably still back there for the finding if anyone can be arsed. We were in a small minority for the derailing theory on the not-too-distant horizon, and I went so far as to predict it would occur in the next 2-5 years. Well, in the light of events in the Mid-East and oil prices not doing what they were supposed to do following the US invasion of Iraq, and even more liberal spending policies domestically, the inside limit stays unchanged at 2-1 years, but the outer limit would now seem to be too optimistic. I would now say 3 years at the very longest for a massive credit squeeze, recall of debt and subsequent nose-dive of the Thai economy in every quarter. That gives those with major assets here 1-3 years to party-on!

does anyone remember the story a few years back, of the uk policeman who married a thai isaarn girl, lived out in some remote village or other,and due to a financial dispute that pulled the wifes loyalties to and fro between her family and the husband, the poor husband ended up being kept in a bamboo cage in a secluded part of the field next to the house. he was kept like an animal and starved for 6 weeks until his brother from england who, worried that he had not had the usual weekly letter for some time, came over and made inquiries. the police didnt want to help him ,but he eventually found and rescued his brother who was on the verge of death. was a big story in england at the time....the heartlessness of thai women etc.

so, toddy :

What do you lot reckon - I am paranoid or realistic?

good question !

I'd almost forgotten that cracker Tax. Great story for the grandkids, but poor old bugger, being locked up like a prisoner in Nam! Wow, a copper and all. Bet he had a red face when he got back to England and went round to see his mates. "Allo, allo, allo. What have we hear then Sarg? Looking a bit thin since your little Thai holiday. The food not agree with you or something? And where's that cracking little bit of stuff you showed us in the photos? Not brought her back to show her round the nick then guv? All the boys would love to show their truncheons to her."

Bet that's the last exotic holiday he ever took. As for Khun Wifey, you can see she was a good Buddhist and couldn't bring herself to kill the barbarian farang, so showed him great mercy by keeping him alive (just) on somtam and water in a cage. Such thoughtfullness.

Just had a thought - do you reckon that Erco might be the copper, come back to exact revenge against Thai womenkind, the nation over? A kind of Freddy of Pattaya. Hubbies, keep your wives locked up for safekeeping: Erco/Freddy/cop in a cage is on the loose!

Welcome to the thread Billd! Sounds like you have a nice set up for w/ends in Kampeng Phet. What kind of condition is the forest in Mae Wong NP in? Would like to see that part of Thailand one day, as it's one part i've never really explored.

Water shortage is a problem in the north and NE Thailand during the dry season(Lampang reputedly has the lowest mean annual rainfall in Thailand, which may surprise a few that always assumed Isaan is the driest part of the Kingdom), but there is enough the rest of the year to ensure it shouldn't be an obstacle to farming. With sensible placing of on-farm ponds and use of borehole water if its quality is adequate (problem in large areas of Isaan due to salinity) and plenty of rain water storage jars around buildings, there's no need to be short of water, even miles from the nearest stram or river. This is one of the biggest myths of Isaan - ie. that it is a "dry area". Wrong, it gets a long dry season, but there's plenty the rest of the year - about 900 mm in the very driest areas around Chaiyaphum, up to 1800 mm in parts of Nong Khai and Nakhon Phanom.

Compare that with a "wet city" like London and you'll soon see that Isaan is even wetter! It just mostly falls between May and October, so the trick is to store as much then on-farm, and judiciously use it in the dry season. The govt's approach has always been to promote large-scale off-farm irrigation systems run by bureaucrats not responsive to millions of small farmers diverse needs. Added to that the fact that Isaan is one large plain (more land is drowned than irrigated at most schemes) overlaying a massive salt dome (salinisation is spreading rampantly) and large-scale irrigation was doomed to faliure from the start. Yet still they persist in promoting it............

As for potential for drip irrigation Bina, I think you're well aware of the limitations, which tend to be like you say, cultural and social, as well as technical and economical. It does have it's applications, for certain crops in certain circumstances, but remember it's only going to be needed for about 6 - 7 months of the year, after which "angel pee" will do the rest. As long as Sathon doesn't get blinded to the technology and realises the limitations, then he may succeed, but being a good salesman, is very different from being a good farmer. Unfortunately, Thailand is littered with the project remains of the works of good salesman, which looked great on paper, but nose dived on the ground. The farmers usually pay the price of these bad projects (sinking deeper into debt), while the salesman move on to flogging cars or the latest import from Japan. Know what I mean John.

Agroforestry is still the best way to go, integrated with suitable winged and 4 legged livestock to the local agro-ecosystem. Once, you've got these components and keep chemical inputs to a minimum, the system is very stable and self maintaining and encourages so much other biodiversity (tasty insects and amphibians especially), that the farmer, is never short of food choices. Compare this to the average mono-crop farmer of rice, sugar cane, cassava, etc. who has nothing to sell in the local market and little to eat in his fields ansdis nearly always in debt. The Thai DOA sends out very conflicting messages, one day promoting water conservation and integrated farming, the next day promoting monocrop cash crops and mega irrigation projects (i.e. to many predatory politicians controling things at the top). And in recent years, the local extensioin services, always underfunded, have been scaled back even further, which was highlighted by the slow way in which the bird flu crisis was both reported back up to the top and dealt with when it couldn't be ignored by the politicians any more.

Hi Bina,

About 7 or 8 years ago I used to see some experimental drip irrigation systems set up in various villages around mid-Isaan, with Israeli sponsorship and technical back-up provided by a company called "Netafim". Don't know if it's still active in Thailand these days, but the systems themselves weren't great successes. They were being used on small vegetable plots, tended by hand and the villagers were used to hand watering to excess. The drip pipes needed a lot of maintenance, that the villagers weren't really up to, plus they often seemed to put their mattocks through the pipes through careless swings. Holes need regular cleaning and storage between crops can be a problem.

I think it would work with fruit trees and certain high value vegetables which need point application of water, but where water is too cheap and plentiful, you'd have a job in persuading people of the benefits of such high invesment costs, imho. I've also seen them in use at the famous Chateau du Loei vineyard, where money is no object to the mega-rich owner. So, perhaps there is a chance of selling it to wealthy absentee landowners for their hobby farms and manicured gardens!

I used to have the card for the Netafim agent, but think I binned it a year or two ago, but perhaps you could search for them on the Net and see if they still work in Thailand.

Hi farming folks!

Going back to the potatoes for a moment, I wouldn't write them off altogether for doiug in Isaan, but would make certain caveats. I tried a few last winter as an experiment in my back garden and got a few v. small spuds for my minimal efforts. However, this year I'll put the lessons from last year to use.

Firstly, like carrrots, plant them as soon after the rainy season stops as possible, so you make the most of the longest period of "cool" weather that Thailand can offer. Get them eyed up first before planting in sand or carefully wrapping each in newspaper. Put loads of organic crap in the soil as Isaan soilsd are naturally low. Forget paddy fields which are still usually waterlogged when the rains stopped (and still full of rice!), but go for more upland areas with good sandy/loamy soil. Only irrigate once the plants are big if possible. Expect a harvest after 10 -12 weeks.

I know they grow a lot of spuds in the highlands of Vietnam, where it's cooler and the soils are good. But lowland Isaan may be a problem with the exterme heat, even in November! If there are heat tolerant local varieities (Non- GMO preferably!) available, then maybe you could get a half decent crop, esp. if you lived in Loei mountains. But, experimentation is the name of the game in farming, so just try it on a small scale with spuds out the market first and see how you go! Chok dee!

Bina & Jeff, I've got a weakness for mole crickets and grasshoppers too! Maybe we should start an Insect appreciation club meeting once a month to sample new types of tasty, tempting invertebrates?

About myself, I do not accept any woman with me, who is a minor, and for me this means 20+.

In Thailand I check her ID card and make a photocopy to be sure, who is with me in my room for overnight. - Found the best women somewhere between 25 and 35 old....I am not really interested in the very young ones....

Johann

You're kidding surely? You mean at 2.00 am you scour the streets of Sukhumvit or wherever looking for a photocopy shop, while your chosen escort, looks bemused and wondering "what is this crazy farang on?" If I was her, would probably think you were some sort of holy roller or farang cop and would have "fled the scene" long before getting anywhere near a xerox machine. You mean shagging a 19 yr old is off, as she's too young to be served an alcoholic bev in your own country or what? As many have said before, many 18 yr olds are more mature than some 30 yr olds, so age is just an arbritary disntiction (within limits of course). 16 yrs old is a fair legal distinction I'd say, that protects genuine young maidens from old goats like Georgie-porgie!

George, jumping the gun there a bit with the headline aren't you - or is that just wishful thinking?

Hrrmmm..... You are right, they are bastards....

Steady now.....................

I'm just a tad surprised that the gentlemen at the helm of the Min. of Agric. were missed off the list of those to be censured. Makes one wonder what is the level of fingers in the till one needs, before being counted as blemished?

George, jumping the gun there a bit with the headline aren't you - or is that just wishful thinking?

SICKBUFF; Well according to my wife,who by the way is a Thai and has lived here for 45 years, Is graduated from univ.,has been in govt.employ for over 20 years and is ranked as a colonel says that it is not expected of me due to my age and being a farang.

A slight nod of the head and a smile is the best thing to do and is acceptable to all conserned.

And what do you think my chances of being presented to HRH are?

Slight, one hopes Kev...............

Your wife is a very wise woman, as she realises the significance of the saying "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", of which there is a Thai equivalent, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. Snark - over to you?

maybe a thai reporter could ask him why thais would wish to send their children overseas for further education?

when will they wake up to his propaganda? when the thai baht nosedives?

P'raps cos they're all hoping that their kids will be able to study abroad too? Let's face it, Stu, the reporters that would have been allowed in to cover that event would have been screened for pro-Thaksiness, so would hardly have been likely to have raised awkward questions like that. Wouldn't be surprised if even the taxi drivers weren't handpicked too, as virtually every taxi driver I've spoken to over the last year has been convinced Tox is taking the country down the tubes. Which probably explains why he's targetting this particular group of influential voters so thoroughly. Cos unlike many of their Isaan brethren, these guys are a/ politically aware, b/ take the trouble to go home to Roi-ET and vote, and c/ aren't likely to be swayed by the local poo yai baan telling them who to vote for. And no doubt they could sway a fair few of their relatives which party to vote for, which makes them ripe for heavy propaganda.

i know a thai/chinese girl from bangkok who was shot in the leg by her father for dating a boy deemed to be unsuitable.... and it wasnt so long ago either.

however, before you get too depressed, i married a thai/ chinese girl from the middle classes and have been accepted 100% by all the family including her brothers.

I know a 100 % Isaan girl who shot her sino-Thai hubby in the leg (perhaps she was aiming for his balls and missed?) after he screwed around on etoo many times. This was the culmination of a very unhappy marriage where she was not treated with any respect by the in-laws, who expected her to be the subservient wifey staying in and doing the housework, etc. Unsurprisingly, she's now left him for a farang husband.............. who also screws around and is in risk of getting the same treatment unless he reforms. However, he's now a private security geek in Iraq, so there's a good chance the Iraqis may get him first.......

The only people I wai are my wife's family (respectful wai to older members every time I meet them, more casual wai to family members of my age and not every time). I have not had to wai a senior monk yet but think I know how 'high' I need to wai

I agree that wai-ing waitresses etc is in conflict with the whole reason for waiing (ie showing respect).

But I also think that a farang wai, however clumsily performed, demonstrates an effort to understand Thai culture, and his/her efforts should be commended.

I'm with you Simon. There's no point in wai-ing everything that moves, but erring on the side of caution and returning wais proffered, when in doubt, is probably looked on more positively by Thais than a haughty "I'm a farang and farangs never wai" attitude. AS you live here longer, and learn the social norms and cultural ways more thoroughly, then you'll gradually learn when to wai, and when it is inappropriate. Older people have more of a dilemma than younger ones in some ways about when to wai, but then Thais also offer more respect to the elderly than Westerners, and are prepared to forgive their "eccentricities" more. But keeping washed, laundered and presentable is probably more important to acceptance in the long run!

In that case, and to be really fair to both parties, I propose that for you Axel, you can tell your wife/GF as she passes you a beer out the fridge, "Not tonight darling, it's my monthly and I'm on the rag(gon)" on every third Tuesday of the month.    Now that's what I call gender equality, not every week!

Nice one, but why "wife/GF ", let's say "wife and GF".

More on topic, just been to Villa-market, saw a little sign, no alcohol sales after midnight...

So, since I am not allowed to buy and take it home, must stay in the pub.

Shit man, that means you have to abstain twice a month! Too bad.

I don't suppose Villa says what time they start serving again? Does that mean I won't be able to get a beer with my 39 baht special brekkie at 8.00 am? It really is getting like the extremities of Scotland then!

plachon...'The General in his Labyrinth' is a minor Garcia Marquez effort when compared to '100 years of solitude' and 'Love in the time of cholera'. That he presently lives comfortably in Mexico City and is a friend of Fidel tells me all I need to know other than his ouvre...a living treasure of latin american literature.

When I worked in the NW woods many eons ago a colleague described shaving his wife's pussy in a fit of drunkeness. Some years later I picked up a woman in a bar in Jakarta and did the same. She was a witch from a town on the the Java sea and never looked the same from one time to another when one tried to concentrate. She quite enjoyed the shaving ritual.

Never did have it off with 15 year old stuff but I did with a 16 year old when I was 20. She was a virgin...what a mess. We hooked up some years later and did OK for 8 1/2 years. Then she went to law school, hooked up with some PC dykes and the whole show went to shit. She was one of the loves of my life and I have become violently anti-PC ever since.

Dunno...what are 15 year old african girls' tiddies like?

Like unripe peaches at 15, ripening mangoes at 16, and luvverly firm melons by 17, in which state they'll stay in until such time as sprog No. 2 or 3 is born, by which time they take on ever more close resemblance to a pair of papayas. All speculation of course, based on reading too many National Geographic articles on Botswana and Malawi malagaws. Sorry to disappoint Tutsi, but my volunteering teeth were broken on the petite Thai variety and like you, kept strictly above the sweet 16 mark. Was only following Theroux in the metaphorical sense of his sexploits, not literally to Africa and beyond. Last year, enjoyed his paddling across the Pacific Islands in the Happy Isles of Oceania.

Will have to look out some more Marquez titles in the future.

This witch you met on Java - what do you mean she "never looked the same from one time to the next when one tried to concentrate"? Concentrate on what? Shaving her minge or on getting your end away? Please elaborate on what kind of magic she practiced, apart from pulling you under her spell?

plachon...I quite enjoy travel narratives and many of our favorite writers dabble therein from time to time (VS Naipaul, Graham Greene and others). However I was most pleased when Paul Theroux admitted to having sex with a 15 year old african girl...perverted carnality and little black titties...sublime...

Tutsi- Wasn't that in "My Secret History"? Takes me back a few years to carefree years following in Theroux's footsteps, though never got a girl to arch her back over, lift her skirt and pee into the sunrise on the lawn after a night of passion. You ever read Gabriel Garcia Marquez? The "General in his Labyrinthe", think it was called, set in Venezuela/Bolivia a couple of hundred years ago when power was as fluid as mercury. If so, there's a great description of the General shaving his young mistress of all body hair. Suspect you'd like it, you old goat, if 15 yr olds are your thing!

I support the idea. Every girl has a time once a month to relax. So every man should be able to stop drinking once a week. Me think it's fair.

In that case, and to be really fair to both parties, I propose that for you Axel, you can tell your wife/GF as she passes you a beer out the fridge, "Not tonight darling, it's my monthly and I'm on the rag(gon)" on every third Tuesday of the month. Now that's what I call gender equality, not every week!

Another well thought out good idea. Peeing into the wind again.

No "job bor see's" in this govt. Doc. Only a true genius could have come up with this one. If this idea comes off, it'll be a bit like living in the Outer Hebrides, where they cover all the evil booze with blankets in stores on Sundays, lest the cheerless beerless proles should be led into temptation. Can't somehow see this going down to well amongst the punters of LOS.

Like I said - sports and politics make bad bedfellas - which somebody is gradually learning. As for the notion of a country owning a footie team, it's as ridiculous as having a war against a concept, as another couple of leaders (Pinky and Perky) are slowly trying to come to terms with. Won't stop these loonies trying though.

I know politics and sports shouldn't be mixed, but this latest deal (conducted in Government House NOTE) proves they are inseperable, in Thailand at least. Getting a stake in Liverpool means more votes for TRT at the next elections, pure and simple, so is a canny move. However, the new part-owner shouldn't be surprised or call "foul" if there aren't a fair few politically-aware folk amongst the Liverpool supporters club, who will be quite preapred to make their voices heard on the terraces and in the fanzines, as would already seem to be the case judging by early reactions. Maybe not such a smart move after all?