bkkcanuck8

3 minutes ago, internationalism said:

it's no point to travel back to the UK and face restrictions from being unvaccinated or with only sinovac. Thailand has those 415k donated from the UK as donation, as well as over 1mln from Japan. It also has up to 6mln locally made. 

So yes, foreigners should be treated exactly as thais would be. They should be not classified in lower category.

At this stage it's possible to offer patients a choice  

"That is indeed the case at MedPark, a mid 20’s American stood behind me in the line tried to obtain the Pfizer vaccine quoting a health issue but had no medical certificate or proof. He was offered AZ or nothing ( didn’t see him again )."

It sounds to me that they are being treated like Thais:

In Bangkok the first shot is AZ and the second shot sinovac

In the provinces it is sinovac then AZ (which I think I would prefer of the two). 

Unless you are over 60 or have pre-existing conditions to which you have to show that you have them - in which case you get Pfizer.

Early on in Canada when they had a shortage of mRNA vaccines, they would reserve the mRNA vaccines for exactly the same group as Thailand is doing now.   Later I have heard people in Toronto were getting mostly Pfizer with some Moderna. 

My parents (Halifax, NS) received mRNA vaccines,  a sister (Halifax, NS) received AZ.  One sister (federal employee Ottawa) received an mRNA vaccine -- later, and one who was posted to Ukraine for first shot -- I don't know what she received in Ukraine (I can however guarantee it was not the Russian one).   

Just now, Cake Monster said:

I was led to believe the Vaccines were already in the Country, and that they were destined to start administering them as of 9 th August ( after several Days of delay for some reason )

Well, they would have had to go through 43,000 entries and check your passport against their records and once all that is verified the records (there would likely be a second person above them that would verify the verification was correct, sign off on it).  These approved records would have to be transferred to the MoPH, then MoPH would then identify the location against what vaccines are available to that area, book your appointment tentitively... then these would be handed over to IT that would be responsible for sending out the email/SMS and have ready some way to confirm the appointment online and once it is confirmed then those that are confirmed would be passed back to the people responsible for these appointments. 

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

And today in another OP running currently a Senior Advisor to the MOPH and Anutin has come out stating that the Covid infections numbers are more than likely higher than being reported.

That is a known fact, the question is whether Thailand is hiding identified cases.  Every country out there you are going to have mostly identified cases in the totals... and there will be another group of significant cases that are not identified because they are asymptomatic... this is where most community cases that they cannot trace the origins come from... (so called unlinked I believe).  They can estimate how much of the population based on statistical sampling and serology testing, but they are not part of the official numbers.

1 minute ago, HaoleBoy said:

Where are the donated  Pfizer vaccines?  It shouldn't take a week to get out to all the frontline workers.

We can't even get an accountability of the 1.5 million doses of Pfizer from this Gov.  This isn't enough to stop this trend, but it is a start!

Did the report say the 1.5 million donated doses are in the country already?  Donated does not necessarily mean they have arrived in country...

14 minutes ago, it is what it is said:

 

suggest they look at the uk model; reasonably effective lockdown to protect the health service combined with an effective vaccination programme. this has enabled the uk economy to grow by 4.8% in Q2 - and while still behind were it was in 2020 it's heading in the right direction.

Yes, Thailand should be more like UK (which has close to the same population)

UK 6,179,506 cases;  130,701 deaths

TH 839,771 cases; 6,942 deaths

Now Thailand does need more vaccines, but they were late in ordering them and thus have a much lower rate of vaccinated people... but Thailand cannot catch up until they get more vaccines and there is a backlog of orders worldwide.

What did the UK do better:

• they had more people vaccinated when the vaccinations became available (partially by orders, and partially by blocking trade/export - which is why no country should now allow free trade in pharmaceuticals with the UK). 
• They have better testing

What Thailand did better:

• better tracking and tracing
• More compliance on PPE slowing spread of the disease in an unvaccinated population

Downturn in tourism will impact Thailand more than the UK since the UK has a more diversified economy.

2 minutes ago, rott said:

What about the Russians.? 

It first came from the Martians, during that invasion one of our viruses jumped and inside them (before they died) -- it mutated and lay dormant until recently when the grave was dug up by Ufologists...

4 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Take a look at the charts, Indonesia did a typical delta pump and dump, dropping like a brick now. Thailand overtook Indonesia some time ago in cases per capital 

On the bright note, Thailand is still running behind Florida -- which has less than 1/3 the population of Thailand.

1 minute ago, fdimike said:

"Well, today is the 11th and Minister Anutin said the approved persons on expatvac should be getting a notice by now.

Have any of you who received an approved notice via e-mail received further instructions?  I've been watching my e-mail and SMS like a hawk but no joy."

 

Not a word from the expatvac government site I signed up on 2 Aug here in Udon Thani.  i can hardly wait for the excuses.

 

Approved, my guess is those that are approved for vaccination under current criteria NOW... not everyone on the list... 

1 minute ago, club said:

Your confused, China has been playing Thailand for years. Bad vaccines and submarine's is a good example

China did not have to play Thailand, the current General in charge seemed to be much warmer with regards to ties with China (which did not criticize the coup) than any previous administration -- right from the beginning... Thailand traditionally has tried to play the game in the middle, and had a memory of when China supported the communist insurgency in Thailand, but Prayut seemed to discard that play book early on.   Thailand is much better off returning to the old playbook - try not to anger either side too much, and try to be seen as friendly to both sides...

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

And that happened just days after the donation was announced and some Thai official started a rumor about expats getting a portion of it by agreement.

Even if there was some sort of agreement between governments, the US mission here is not going to put that in writing.  If there was an agreement though, not doing what was agreed could affect relations on other items that may be important to Thailand.  There are multiple audiences for public releases, not just American expats.  That said, I have no idea (nor would most people) whether there is some diplomatic agreement or not.

4 hours ago, Rinrada said:

Yes....my wife has both Thai and UK passport..never a problem.

No, No, No, If you arrive at UK immigration and you are not vaccinated they drop you in the sea just outside of UK territorial waters and you will have to tread water hoping they change the criteria ????

On 8/5/2021 at 2:13 PM, Roy Baht said:

There's a moral hazard argument to be made (which I am sure no one in this forum will like) that runs like this: the more that banks are insured against losses, the more likely they are to behave recklessly or take unnecessary risks--because they know they will be bailed out. (The classic example of moral hazard is the "too big to fail" financial institutions in the United States.) On the other hand, if bank insurance is kept to a minimum, then banks are incentivized to behave responsibly--and not fail. Or if a bank does behave irresponsibly, it is allowed to fail. No government bailout. As for the people who lose money in that bank, well, they chose the wrong bank to put their money in. Caveat emptor. That is the theory at least--just putting it out there.

BS, if the depositor loses savings is irrelevant to the CEO if he is going with a more risky strategy ... more likely to be driven by his bonus plan or by the need to impress the board so that he is seen as too valuable to lose.   The deposit insurance has no benefit to the bank itself, other than they can say their deposit accounts are insured.  In fact it would be an expense for the bank, since the insurance rate would be tied to the amount being insured.   If you want to reign in the banks behavior to protect depositors, you have to put up restrictions on what a deposit taking institution does... so the more risky financial industry in one institution and the "bank" being a more staid institution.  Or more strict oversight of the risks that institutions take, which would then force the risk based financial industry into other separate businesses naturally.  That said, Thai Bank Insurance was higher than many western countries insurance limits, now it is going to be less.

33 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Then that would be her problem if she let her visa lapse!

Even if she has no control over it?  Like no school willing to sponsor her because too many days of no classes.... 

4 minutes ago, club said:

What  recoveries means here in Thailand most likely is you still test positive with either no symptoms or mild symptoms and can fully recover at home, but if you are still Covid positive you CAN still spread it. In the USA if you tested positive at hospital but you had no symptoms or mild ones you would be sent home and told to Quarantine for 14 days. I know because it happened to my 30 year old son. Its another misleading statement when they say people released recovered. 

Unlikely, if that was the definition of the recovered cases... then there would not be 210,042 active cases officially in Thailand (a little more than 25% of the entire total).  Even if they don't have followup tests, 'quarantine' would still be considered active cases.

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

She has priority, she's over 60, has pre-existing medical conditions and can get the Pfizer or AZ vaccination by registering for it, just like everyone else can do and has done and has had at least one vaccination.

Depends on her visa status, if her teaching work visa has lapsed and she does not have 800,000 baht in the bank then should could be on a tourist visa with indefinite extensions at this point... there is no option for tourist visas to register that I know of.

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Possibly pictured before she left for treatment which was completed in 2019.

It also says she is immuno compromized cancer patient.  My understanding is that having a compromised immune system (which makes you more susceptible to getting sick) can also lead to the cancer itself.  Anyone that has a compromised immune system should be of higher priority -- regardless of visa status. 

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The vaccine is also not so robust, and needs careful handling by trained users.  I don't see this going out to most provinces at all.

You do know that Pfizer is distributed through vaccination at Pharmacies in countries like the US and Australia?

As far as I can tell, the skills needed are not special and most nurses should have no problem.  They would likely setup a preparation station, and then several stations where they would take the prepared vaccine to a station where they would then inject the vaccine, then when their basket was empty they would go back and get the next lot of prepared vaccines. 

I think you are overstating the fragility of the vaccine or the incompetence of the nurses doing the vaccinations. 

I have been stating 10 doses per vial, they indicate 6... maybe I was assuming another vaccine and Pfizer would be exactly the same doses per vial.  Also it seems to indicate that the ultra low temps for distribution are from manufacturing and that there is 30 days after removing from the ultra-low temp storage. 

46 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I see the EMA are also looking in to the mRNA vaccines' connection to a couple of other severe conditions on top of cardiac issues in youngsters. 

 

Generally, I would say AZ can now be considered the equal of any vaccine, since they all seem to be less than very safe, but do a pretty good job.

Every vaccine has a level of risk, and that is constantly updated as it is tracked -- when anything is approved it is approved for a specific use, and against that use is the risk of severe reaction to that treatment (be it drugs or vaccines).   For it to be approved it has to be shown to be effective and very low risk, and if any time during the tracking of it - that approval can be suspended for investigation and/or revoked.   The risks for these severe reactions are extremely rare.   Currently the data is showing the risk of severe reaction from the vaccine is far far less than the risk of getting severe COVID.   There is also oversight of manufacturing.  During the race to get the polio vaccine out there was an incident called the "Cutter Incident" where the live virus used in the vaccine was not properly inactivated leading to people being infected when they were getting the vaccine (vaccination the hard way).   AZ is based on this same process. 

That said, this century the average lifespan has almost doubled and a lot of that is because of vaccines.

11 minutes ago, AgentSmith said:

mRNA vaccines need to be stored at a very low temperature. That makes transport and distribution rather difficult. It's much easier to let people travel to a few large facilities instead of trying to spread these vials and their fragile content all over the country.

 

6 hospitals in Bangkok now administer Pfizer to foreigners.

I don't want people traveling all the way down to a dark red zone then back up here ????   If they a mobile vaccination unit, that would be good enough I would think.  The vials are kept in the original pack in dry ice which is sufficient -- the distribution is a pack contains 195 vials and each vial 10 doses, the pack is kept cold using dry ice which needs to be replenished every 30 days or so.   I believe the vial has to be used all at once, but the pack can be used over a period of time.

1 minute ago, RobU said:

I see your point but healthcare workers are the most vulnerable. they work in areas of High Viral Load ie they are surrounded by extremely poorly people with high concentrations of the the virus in their systems and are constantly touching and getting very close to them. I agree hospitals are dangerous places because the virus is exhaled on the breath of the patients and, no matter how strict the containment protocols are, the infected air will escape from the ward into the air of the corridors and changing rooms of the hospital. BUT healthcare workers are more at risk when they are at work and to be blunt they are valuable and not easily replaced (7 years training for a doctor 4 years training for a nurse).

Agreed, I believe viral load is an important factor on whether you will become sick and to what degree to some extent.   They found during the Spanish flu that the field hospitals (actual field hospitals) were better in treating patients of the flu because of the open environment and 'ventilation' (and that was when hospital wards literally had big windows that you propped open to ventilate the ward).  Now I don't know for sure, but I suspect the most modern hospitals have a reasonably good air filtration system now, but I suspect older hospitals not so much.   Other front line (non-medical) workers would have a much more limited exposure and thus much lower risk of infection (and if they are vaccinated - it will still more than likely limit the risk of hospitalization), which can be mitigated to a great extent by mask mandates indoors and washing ones hands before touching one's own face.   In addition, if a medical worker on the front lines (already running at near full capacity) is forced off work because of exposure and being sick - more people will die from lack of care.  

2 hours ago, impulse said:

You're confusing antibody count with efficacy.  Many of us who were jabbed for measles, polio, etc. are still protected decades later, in spite of the fact that the antibody count has dwindled to a tiny percentage of what it was the day we got the vaccines.

 

He is also quoting the first jab half-life of sinovac vaccine with regards to anti-bodies, the vaccine requires two jabs so taking one jab results as proof of anything is problematic.  There are concerns (and data - i.e. 600 nurses getting sick on the front line from COVID) to indicate sinovac is not as good as other vaccines though...  My (mostly lay/vague recollection of school in deteriorating memory cells ????) is that antibodies naturally decrease over time after as they elevate while actively fighting an infection (don't know the timeline), but your immune system is more than just those antibodies - you are left with a memory of the virus that allows your immune system kick into high gear early on after a new infection, and will create new antibodies to fight the new infection quicker...  (I think we still have a long way to go to fully understanding the immune system, 2nd in difficulty to the how the brain works).  Take the above though with a big grain of salt since I have vague recollections, trying to supplement with online resources (was always way way more interested in physics). 

3 hours ago, Scrotobike said:

Some Pfizer will come to ISSAN - 

 

Although Pfizer was working on smaller packs, I think for the doses to remain viable they have to ship a pack (where the dry ice has to be replaced regularly - at least every 30 days), and that is 195 vials and each vial is 10 doses... so for one location I think (not an expert, but logically thinking) -- you will need at least a distribution of 1950 doses.   If the program is just for expats, then I suspect it is not logistically easily doable to have multiple vaccine distributions dependent on who it is -- in many parts of Issan... at least that is my fear.  I am waiting patently though hoping to be 'guesxperting' wrong ????

On 8/9/2021 at 1:18 AM, sammieuk1 said:

Every country I know of governments procure the vaccine and jab it for free the only reason its not here is money 

absolutely discusting where is the AZ not for profit? ????

 

I was reading that the per jab price for sinovac was 4 times that of AZ....  I am guessing some other companies don't have a large enough 'marketing' budget.