lucaswallachia

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Yeh, so her jandals are just to the right of that rock on the right

The condom issue relies very much on whether these murderers were acting spontaneously or were organised or had done this before.window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());

The leaving behind of evidence and the nature of the attacks surely indicate that this was a frenzied opportunistic assault, not a coolly planned escapade. Isn't it unlikely that rapists would bring a condom in such a scenario. And why bother when your two accomplices haven't bothered with a condom? I also find it unlikely that David's clothes came off in a fight with his attackers. His wounds indicate that he was hit from behind probably while he was on the ground and would have been rendered unconscious from the blows if not dead. Scratches on his body would have been made when he was dragged into the sea, either to finish him off or in an attempt to conceal the body.

Well as you can see in that photo, there is so much blood on the ground that if David was wearing his top it would of been damaged or had blood on it. I do think the attackers were looking to attack someone though, that's why they had the weapons.

It probably is similar to that murder where those 2 fishermen swam to shore and raped and killed that girl, who decided to 'rape someone' after watching porn on their boat and the 2 or 3 suspects just deciding they wanted to rape someone.

one shoe could also have came off when they stripped him.

if she had her clothes on, and they were just pushed up, or down, then, he was fully clothed, too

really, this is where I jump off the speculation wagon,

none of this matters, DNA from two men is available,

the rest takes care of itself during the confession phase, and there is always a confession and then reenactment

I think what will answer that is whether his t-shirt was ripped / damaged or had blood on it

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There was a condom what had been used on Hannah found near by... who used it on it on her?

Most likely it was David's, and they probably got interrupted just when they were 'getting into it' that David left no DNA inside.

Why would they (or David) take it off then?

I'm guessing because it would of fallen off. Again i think it matters where they found the condom, since Hannah's Jandals and im guessing undies as well (sorry it looks like the undies are to the left of the picture) are just out of the photo to the bottom right so she was definitely dragged or maybe starting running in the direction her body was found and caught there.

Ok in this photo the censored bit is where Hannah is lying. If the condom found is near her then that would lean more to it not being David's but if it was found close to the camera where the blood and their clothing and stuff is then it would seem more likely it was David's.

So it remains it is impossible to not have DNA inside the condom and secondly the clothing left behind in this picture - is that a pair of jeans ? Or jean shorts ? Neither party was wearing this type of attire. Loads of DNA right there also !

Ok but is that a given, that it is impossible to not have DNA in it?

Yeh looking at other photos it looks like black pants with a black belt which i guess it where their original theory came from the killer/s taking his pants off and picking up David's shorts when leaving in a hurry.

I say enough about the guitar because it was stated by police that Seans wounds were old and closed

To suggest the Thai police didnt swab the guitar, is just silly

If he lived there 18 months,

he knows everyone there including the local police

if he was in some prior situation, they probably are aware of it,

and the cleaning of the blood from his wounds was also prior to the crime.

not cleaning the blood off the guitar, is something you would have to ask him,

I play the guitar, and I wouldnt leave yesterdays sweat on my guitar, much less blood

I am waiting for police and DNA and for nature to take its course,

speculating further and rehashing what can only be a few different scenarios, after I have already put out my theory, just isnt smart anymore,

last time, simple theory,

David and Hannah walked by the attackers, or were found disrobing, in any case, if accurately reported, David was hit from behind with a rebar. rebar is all over the place as they build with concrete there. in fact, if you dont watch where you wa.lk in BKK, you can wind up with one in your leg.

They say David put up a fight, but he could also have had his knuckles scraped as they dragged him from the rocks to the water to drown him. he died from drowning.

I think, if he died from drowning, he couldnt fight back at that point. You would be amazed at how strong a man can get, when he is being drowned, unless, he is nearly unconscious already from getting hit in the head with an iron bar. I dont care if it is two or three guys killing him, I believe he was close to unconscious

The girl was probably hit, to keep her from screaming. which began the attack on her.

If David's shoe was on, then, he was probably fully clothed when attacked, and lost a shoe doing the struggle.

I dont believe he had a condom on, with one shoe.

they may have been just walking,

they may have been kissing,

there is no evidence he used the condom, but, I did speculate that the rapists wouldnt, so, the next theory is, the condon was used on her, but for all we know, it was on the end of the hoe, or, the third rapist was interrupted

it is also possible, the police decided to keep evidence to themselves, unlikely, but possible,

I think Sean knows who did it which is why the mystery of his exit off the island,

I think the two guys he says did it, did it.

I dont know if they will ever get prosecuted, if it is them, and I dont know if this case will ever get solved,

I do know one thing:

this case is an international event, and, with the PM putting his foot in his mouth, and with Andy from Twitter fully interviewing Sean,

this case has both the chance to be solved, and, this case has the ability to reform Thailand's approach to the falange, and while I hope the find the gruesome killers, I am as equally hopeful that real change will occur in Thailand, and with the police, because I like Thailand, and I have friends there, and I want to return, but

I don't like the way it is run, I dont want to be stopped for random piss tests by cops with money on their mind,

and I dont want any problems caused by a corrupt police dept.

I am hopeful this case does more to change Thailand, and that all mafia's are imprisoned, starting with the pimps

What ive read on a news site is he was there for 2 weeks, had meet David a couple of times on social occasions, yet he said "My mate Dave lost his life on koh Tao. We were meant to meet up when we found out we were both there at the same time but I fell asleep."

It does seem probable the scratches on his back were from being dragged over the rocks.

Im just thinking why he still had one shoe on was they were already into it, so didn't care about taking the other shoe off.

Do you have the link to that twitter?

Seans own words...David did not leave with Hannah.

Ok well we have another conflicting story in this case then:

"Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am."

http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/regional/290273-did-thai-murder-victims-argue-with-island-gangster-before-they-were-brutally-killed-locals-claim-no-one-will-speak-out-because-they-are-too-scared.html

"In a police interview Mr Ware told officers that David then told him he was going out to get some cigarettes but another friend revealed he went instead to nightclub AC to meet up with Hannah and her friend Emma Madeline"

The very first report mentioned a condom

Then I shall re check that. Even if this is the case it's impossible to leave no trace of DNA unless it was unused.

How far along the condom was Hannah's DNA found ? At the tip only or all the way along.

Just google koh tao murders condom, should be first post - was posted on 18 / 9

Ok in this photo the censored bit is where Hannah is lying. If the condom found is near her then that would lean more to it not being David's but if it was found close to the camera where the blood and their clothing and stuff is then it would seem more likely it was David's.

whoever is droning on about the blood on the guitar,

just stop already

Your posts lead me to believe that you are indeed following the story. I have been following your posts...Most of which I agree with. However, this is not one of them.

Has it been confirmed and reported that the red substance on the guitar is indeed blood? If so, was a sample taken for DNA testing.

I have also been following the events closely but have been unable or perhaps overlooked the relevant report/reports. If available, please post the link...

Sorry i cant remember where i read it, but im pretty sure that David did admit to being covered in blood so even if the red substance on the guitar is not blood he still had a mishap of some kind.

The very first report mentioned a condom

There was a condom what had been used on Hannah found near by... who used it on it on her?

Most likely it was David's, and they probably got interrupted just when they were 'getting into it' that David left no DNA inside.

no because they werent having sex.. David found Hannah being attacked

Do you have a link that says that?

David went to AC Bar to meet up with Hannah and her friend. Hannah's friend said David and Hannah left together between 3 - 4 am, so why would David find Hannah being attacked if they left together?

And also that would explain why David was naked except for his left shoe.

Im pretty sure someone has posted somewhere that one of these guys had a "70%" match to the DNA found which im guessing means the closest match found so far.

Ok so the guy on the left Montriwat Toovichien, the manager of AC Bar and brother of the guy above in the pink shirt admitted he is the guy caught running on the CCTV and he was among the first at the scene but didnt talk to police.

How did he not talk to police? He was there the next morning with the police? The 2nd guy in the photo with him is a police officer apparently...

for all we know he could of told the police straight away...it was the media who got a hold of the cctv footgae and ran with the story.

He is the manager of AC Bar. So if he saw it before it was found by the cleaners later on, then he either witnessed it or someone told him it about since why would he have gone down to that bit if he was managing the bar.

There was a condom what had been used on Hannah found near by... who used it on it on her?

Most likely it was David's, and they probably got interrupted just when they were 'getting into it' that David left no DNA inside.

Ok so the guy on the left Montriwat Toovichien, the manager of AC Bar and brother of the guy above in the pink shirt admitted he is the guy caught running on the CCTV and he was among the first at the scene but didnt talk to police.

Well if anyone can guess at how fresh that wound is on Sean's arm is. Also, the AC Bar owners right knuckles look like they could be injured:

Maybe Sean was the witness they are saying saw it and after the killers left he went down to see if they were still alive.

Mr worapahn (the village headman) Gave a public interview, a few might have seen these articles or watched it. He was wearing a purple shirt at the time and he was holding up a RED mobile phone ( i cant find the link) ...This mobile phone had a DUCATI mobile case cover over it? Sean mcanna has a DUCATI tattoo on his chest. i have no idea if this was seans phone or not but im assuming it was?

Why would he have seans phone?14116352471411636274l.jpg

Sean had his phone though. As I understand he was using it to take the pictures and send out the messages for help. Maybe "Ducati" is just an island "thing".

But didnt Sean say he used the phone of the girl working at the 7/11 store to take the photo?

A different angle to this story:

On the night Hannah had had consensual sex with two local Thai men hence the sperm DNA. She later went to drink at the bar with her mate David and walked home together. The couple were assaulted and tragically killed in a fit of jealousy by the same locals after an altercation in the bar, who thought she was going to spend the night with David.

?

You are a sick apologist

Disagree. Nothing seems impossible now.

She was with her friends the whole time until she left with David between 3 & 4 am

The fact that Sean has deleted his facebook account & the condolences he made to David's page is weird

My wife read something yesterday that mentioned the Police had a witness to the murder and didn't come forward earlier because he/she was afraid for their life.

A few days back, I began to think about everything I've read since this tragedy occurred and felt that their were 3 people involved in these murders...I remembered they spoke of 3 people playing guitar on the beach and then I remembered that one Farang who I will not name, but I'm sure all of you know who it is, plays guitar on the island. He lives on the island and knows all the local Thai's around the bar area etc... I'm sure he does drugs and from what I've read, loves to drink. Since this whole matter started, he has given conflicting stories to the press. It all began when he said that he was supposed to have met David that evening, but he was too hung over and slept in to making statements that his friend David was killed because he went to Hannah's defense against some locals who were harrassing her at the bar and David walked her back to the hotel when the attack occurred. Then you have the story that a bar girl the evening of the murders saw this Farang full of blood and his story was that he was involved in an accident or a fight...how could that be when he was hung over and in bed asleep? I thought of all this and kept thinking...I really believe this guy is involved, but the semen found was of two Asians...so how does he tie into it? Then I heard about the condom and that was the last piece to my puzzle. The Farang used the condom and the two Thai's did not. It sounds stupid, but when you are on drugs and alcohol you do stupid things and from this Farang's movements...two Thai's threatened to kill him etc... I put it that he is not just a once in a while drug user of Ya ba, but he is an addict and he was having anxiety attacks due to the use of drugs and doing something bad that was eating at him and how was he going to cover it up...too many things going on in his head to think straight. He's already a convicted perv from readings in the UK news, so who knows what else he has done that nobody knows about and had chosen to live his life in a tiny island at such a young age. His stories don't check out, but I do believe his life was threatened by these two Thai's that he took pictures of, but not because they were out to make him a patsy, but because the Farang was unstable and the two Thai guys were afraid that he would eventually open his mouth about what happened or contradict himself even more to the point where the Police would eventually realize that he is a prime suspect and during interrogations, he would rat out the two Thai guys...who are the two that he took pictures of and wanted to silence him to cover their own back sides. Then there's the sympathy notes from all the friends, including David's Farang friend on Koh Tao who seemed to be the best heartfelt note I read from all the friends...this tells me that he has deep issues and was so sympathetic and heartfelt because he did something so terrible.

Anyhow...these are just my thoughts and if I'm wrong in every way, I really hope to GOD that the Authorities don't move on my thoughts as they are just thoughts and I'm not the professional...just a bystander with deep sympathy for what happened to these two young souls and wants justice to the "REAL" animals who brought this tragedy to all of our lives. I just can't help but think and try and piece it together...maybe just to settle my emotions from this gruesome act.

These are just my thoughts...and not professionally so please no CSI jokes etc...I'm just venting out my own thoughts.

How do you explain that the police only found DNA on the outside of the condom and that this DNA belonged to the victim David Miller?

I thought the DNA belonged to Hannah?

Maybe the 'key' witness may have not seen the crime but overheard the perpetrators talking about committing the crime.

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I think it goes without saying that all of this is very, very tough for the families to take. However, I also hope that they appreciate that there are people in Thailand that also do care as well - and care deeply enough to keep the pressure on the authorities to bring the perps to justice ! It would not be easy for them to keep up any momentum on their own and from the UK - and whilst the speculation is upsetting for them, I think it is the lesser of the 2 x evils in this particular scenario. No doubt some of the evidence has been deliberately with held and other evidence poorly conveyed / translated - and this has caused some confusion - maybe deliberately so ?

I heard in one of the earliest reports that the male victim ( David ) also seemed to have been raped - but now that line has also gone quiet. If he is Gay - maybe the DNA that was found on him was not from the actual crime scene and maybe that is why that particular line has seemingly been dropped.

My own observation is that this was much more of a hate crime that a rape crime. The Photo's would support that. Without being too explicit, I am not aware that the police have said whether they found fresh semen ( DNA ) inside the female victim ? They have repeated asked for people to come forward that might have had a previous sexual liaison with the girl ( meaning in the preceding days ).....not sure if this is because they have some doubt as to how old the DNA is ?

The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death. There are many things that they haven't said that has caused so much speculation. One thing is for sure, the photo's depict a wild and gruesome crime scene that many would find very strange if the motive was only rape. Was the condom used on the handle of the Hoe to violate the girl - there is only DNA on the outside ? Someone was obviously very upset or completely out of their mind on drugs. I have heard that Thai Men can become very upset if anyone wiggles their little finger at them in a sort of " mocking manner " to suggest that they are not as big downstairs as they appear to be upstairs ? Was something said earlier in the night in the bar that could have triggered such a rage ?

The guy in the photos and CCTV IMO is the same guy - maybe the " Tattoo " was just an Henna Tattoo and he simply removed it once he knew he was in the frame ? Why cant this CCTV Video be sent for digital enhancement ? If he was caught on CCTV before 4am, why was the crime not reported until 06.30am ? What happened in between this time ?

If any of the Western guys were involved then they should be implicated by their DNA - but none found - so far.

On the other hand, whilst it does sound like a brutal / mafia style execution - why would the bodies be left on the beach ? They have enough contacts and power to seemingly arrange what ever they want on that Island. If it was the mafia, why did they not arrange a speed boat to collect the bodies and shift them to an area that they would never be found / likely ever be found ? Allowing someone to find these bodies on the beach would surely be the last thing a mafia gang would want, particularly so close to their own business interests.

There are many questions that so far remain unanswered. I hope the British Media demand the opportunity to ask all of these questions at some stage, rather than just reporting what they are told !

"The DNA that was found was proved to be from " 2 x different Asian Men." The Police have said on various occasions that there wasn't any evidence of rape before she was murdered ( was this a poor translation or just incompetence )? They did not say that sex was consensual, nor did they say that rape did not take place after her death"

I have said this in another thread, everyone is assuming that whoever had sex with the girl that night was also responsible for her murder.

Without meaning any disrespect to the girl, this is a very dangerous assumption for investigators to make.

How many people have been cleared of murder because their DNA didn't match that from samples from the semen?

And have the samples from the semen matched any other samples taken at the crime scene?

Because the way her body is positioned at the spot indicates she was dragged to that spot, raped and killed

Almost 2 weeks of so called intensive investigations....and miraculously....out of nowhere....out of the blue.....comes forward a witness that knows the truth.....that a foreigner committed this crime.......let the rest of the world make their judgements on this case............

In many crimes witnesses don't come forward for whatever reason till later on so it could very well be legit.