kcirtapyelrah

Andrew Drummond reporting Luke's sister and friend took pictures of the body which show injuries differing from those claimed by the RTP. This will get interesting once the body is returned to the UK.

yes it will, but don't expect transparency, it hasn't been forthcoming yet..

With the name Miller, coming from the region that he did, especially if he brought the subject up, he didn't stand a chance of surviving, there's bound to be considerable paranoia in the area now amongst certain individuals.

The problem with Koh Tao and the deaths that occure there is that many people do not believe the police, there are too many questions left unanswered. Yes an autopsy was carried out and the police concluded that he drowned, I have no doubt that is possibly true, but a family member has said that Luke had bruising on his arms - that alone indicates to me that the police version of events is doubtful, when an autopsy is done you must consider everything (all injuries) to reach a conclusion, you simply cannot ignore stuff because it wouldn't fit with the story, couple that with the missing cctv footage and the lack of a witness to this supposed bravado act and it leaves more questions than answers, just like the puncture wounds that were clearly seen on David Millar that were ignored without explanation

This family should have insisted that the CIFS examined the body and published a full report leaving nothing out, as it stands it seems that certain injuries (no small detail) have been left unreported/unexplained/ignored by officials and either the police or the Thai coronor (or both) have done this with intent

I await to hear the results from a trusted autopsy that will be carried out in the UK before I am anywhere near conviced that this mans death was an accident

Luke had been "living it large" for a few weeks. If you have ever mixed with people who regularly drink a lot you would know that cuts, scrapes and bruises go with that lifestyle. They normally occur due to difficulty negotiating inanimate objects on the walk home.

You reckon.............

We used to get blokes turn up for work after a weekend looking like they had a good kicking. Never was due to violence. Falling into bushes, storm drains, down steps etc. One bloke had two black eyes and stitches in a nasty gash on his forehead. He tripped and caught his head on the edge of a kerbstone, luckily someone found him and got medical attention. So, can it happen innocently? Definitely.

Could they have negotiated a tower and barbed wire in such a stupefied state?

To protect their interests. And it seemed to have been working for the past 16 months until the Witheridges could just not take it anymore...

You are one of the hang em high brigade aren't you? Starting to have second thoughts now?

Nope. I'm not in favour of the death penalty. I also do not have vested interests on Koh Tao.

I meant the guilt of the Burmese.

No second thoughts on that though.

It's a foregone conclusion never mind what then, what a master you are.

A pretty damning criticism of the RTP (and indeed Thailand) has just been posted by Laura Witheridge on her facebook page. It refers to this incident.

That statement by Laura Witheridge would appear to sum up why the family have not spoken about the verdict. It has come as a great relief to hear her speak and I truly hope these frightening revelations from her will come into the media big time and that the investigation will be reopened. It is now time for the British government and Scotland Yard to intervene in my opinion.

Have you ever tried moving a pig? you've got to push it with a board and hit it with a stick to get it to go in the right direction..

Well...That Facebook status from Laura Witheridge goes along way in explaining the statement that came out form the Millar family after the trial...Its sad that the other topics have been closed but this Facebook post has basically confirmed what many have been fighting to bring to the public and to show that all was far from right in the sentencing of the B2. Will be interesting to see what the defenders of the establishment on Koh Tao have to say about Laura's post . This will I'm positive be picked up my international media and will be interesting to see how far this goes now...The British goverment if the Facebook comments on Laura's page are to be believed..and I for sure believe them 100% have a lot to answer too along with of course the Thai RTP and authorities...Sadly I knew along with many more on here it would only be a matter of time before another incident happened in Koh Tao that didn't ring true ! And it will,happen again in the future till the Major governments around the world address this matter. , And they can very easily ! How many young Brits and other nationalities have to die before they do something..Shame on you British Government and as for the RTP and Thai Authorities I hope you are found out for what you are before we are commenting on another sad death !

Does anyone know, apart from your local MP (something of a misnomer after living in Thailand for a decade), what is the best way to register dissatisfaction with the role the FCO/ UK have played in this debacle? Sorry if this is strictly off-topic, but the cases seem to be absolutely linked in the view of comments I have seen, even from the shills.

David Cameron Has a parliamentary email address, is it possible for everyone everywhere to bombard his email address with their discontent, do you think that would work?

Together we stand divided we fall.

sz1a, on 09 Jan 2016 - 20:07, said:

I'll bet they'll call it a suicide unless of course they find cigarette butts on the scene.

The cause of death is pretty much sure and you make this comment, get a life.

It's very difficult to have a faith in anything they say in the light of passed events.

We, from the West, tend to think our ideas of democracy are good for all countries in the world.

So you would prefer a military ruled government who assumed power against the will of the people and refused to give it up? All the while suppressing basic human rights?

Yes, because "we from the West" can always climb on an airoplane and head back to the west if it all becomes too repressive. The Thai people can't.

"We from the West" can burble on about democracy and human rights, at little risk to ourselves.

Tha people daring to raise the subject in public are liable to detention without trial, trial (with no appeal) in camera by the military, or just good old fashioned "disappearing". With the added chance of becoming "suicidal" or developing a severe blood disorder.

Posters like this inadvertently reveal their utter contempt for the Thai people.

Yes, because "we from the West" can always climb on an airoplane and head back to the west if it all becomes too repressive. The Thai people can't.

We from the West were not always sitting so comfortably, we've been through oppression and suffered terrible injustices in the not too distance past, people gave blood, sweat, tears and their lives for what we have today, which is so much better than Thailand has or will have in the future, unless they unite for the common good and sacrifices are made.

May one wonder what may follow after "spontaneous" protests against this government?

Return of the Thaksin government?

Division of the country?

Civil war?

We, from the West, tend to think our ideas of democracy are good for all countries in the world.

Bar the fact our democracies have become quite undemocratic lately, degraded to a voting circus without any power, one should consider the possibilities for Thailand during the time of the latest coup.

And for the weak of heart, the Suharto democracy in Indonesia and the Marcos democracy in the Phillipines might be the future for Thailand.

Very democratic indeed.

Democracy is not good for all counties in the world, but is good for the majority of the people.

Just one other thought. Why does anyone bother replying to the Hang 'em High brigade? Surely if you met scum like this in a pub you wouldn't give 'em the time of day.

These animals are defenders of murderers and rapists.

They don't care about the truth,for the majority they don't even believe themselves what they type. They know as well as we do that the B2 didn't commit these crimes but revel in their death sentences like vultures around carrion.

Turn your backs on 'em. They're not worth the effort it takes to type on the keyboard.

Weeeeeeeeeeell, my thoughts...Folk have interests in KT that pay for nooooo probs there, if you get my drift..........Internet has nutters that just lurk and talk crap to wind folk up.....That's the way it is.....We just have to go along with their crap or say nothing, but if WE say nothing they dribble more and have a 'high'...I am no saint, I am not a Uni guy, but I can smell these folk a mile off.......I will say no more because...

I know what you 're saying. But i don't reply to any of them. I'm all for open discussion from well-informed well-meaning parties but some of these guys are akin to the smelly stuff you scrape off the bottom of your shoe, not capable of human or humane thoughts and feelings or informed debate. Scum like i said. I wouldn't help them get their rocks off. In fact I've got a sizeable group of them in my Blocked list. Helps me keep the bile down.

There's none so blind that will not see, they've had their say for long enough, nothing's going to change, it's just a wind up.

.... leads me to believe that there is AT LEAST one more criminal at large (if, in fact, the convicted parties are guilty as found by the court). If they are not (which I don't think we will ever know), then that means there are at least three murderers out there. (snipped for brevity)

Yes I agree. At least 3 murderers and likely about 30 people who know for sure who did the crime. Likely people who know for sure: NS's g.f., NS's mom and dad, Mon definitely, at least a dozen cops including top brass, some of Mon's buddies who frequent the bars, and others.....

In most countries, it's a criminal offense to lie in court and/or not tell what one knows about a crime. In Thailand, it's a big fat mai pen rai.

More to the point can you create injuries like David had with a hoe?

NO.............

The hoe at the crime scene was very blunt and cement-encrusted, and had a large corner missing. The hoe shown by RTP was clean, newer and no corners missing. Even if RTP explained it was an example of the type of hoe used, it was far from accurate. It's akin to showing a serrated steak knife and saying it's the same as a butter knife. Some young Thais (seeking truth and justice), did an experiment after the crime. They took an old crusty hoe like the supposed murder weapon, and cut and smashed a watermelon with it. The resultant damage was nothing like the clean same-sizedpuncture wounds to David's neck and body. Indeed, I don't think Thai forensics even mentioned the stab wounds to David. Did they simply not see them?!? And the world is still waiting for Brit forensics to step forward with what they found out about David. They're on the public payroll, paid by taxpayer money, and doing thorough autopsy on a Brit citizen murdered overseas is one of their prime duties. They should have their paychecks frozen until they do their jobs. If you hired me to fix your plumbing leak and all I did was show up and leave (for 15 months), you wouldn't want to pay me, would you?

Perhaps everyone, truly, concerned in truth and justice should try bombarding David Cameron's parliamentary email address with their discontent.

The internet is the most powerful and most effective tool ever created, thank you Sir Tim Burners Lee for your gift and all its wonder.

Anonymous have put up a video, it's on YouTube.

Australian scientist Jane Taupin questions Koh Tao death penalty evidence

Myanmar workers Win Zaw Htun, right, and Zaw Lin, left, both 22, escorted by officials after they were convicted in December last year of the murder Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. Photo: APBangkok:

An Australian forensic scientist has questioned key DNA evidence that led to two migrant workers being sentenced to death for the gruesome murders of two British backpackers on an idyllic Thai island.

Melbourne-based Jane Taupin says documents detailing how Thai investigators matched DNA from Myanmar workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun to the victims were not provided to a Thai court, in contravention of international DNA analysis and reporting standards.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-scientist-jane-taupin-questions-koh-tao-death-penalty-evidence-20160106-gm05af.html#ixzz3wQQz8eqQ

The scientific records were not provided for review (for whatever reason) and thus as a scientist I could not perform a scientific review, or determine whether these records accorded with the principles of the standard," she said.

They should have allowed Dr Taupin to take the stand to make the point.

He said the defence lawyers are confused how concerns about the DNA evidence were not raised or noted by the UK government which sent a team

of detectives to review the investigation.

The British sent a forensic expert to cover this aspect didn’t they, what was the point then? They are amongst the very best in the field, they carried out their own autopsy and if there was the slightest trace of semen in Hannah’s womb they will have samples. I believe there’s a lot they can do to clarify things if they jump of the fence and do the right thing, there’s one thing for certain, they will know if he was hit with the hoe or not and they will be able to give an account of what type of weapons they believe were used on David, there was a cut underneath David chin that was clearly done with a blade type weapon and not a hoe.

Your logic depends on the presupposition that Nomsod was guilty, therefore you take any amount of time between the crime and him contacting the police as him being in hiding; then you use that amount of time as evidence that his behaviour was suspicious but since you started with the presumption of guilt it all adds up to circular reasoning. Ergo, flawed logic.

Q.E.Doh

Errr.....no AleG. The debate was a micro-debate about the amount of time it took for Nomsod to come forward, not an overview of the case. You claimed it was two days, but it was ten. The murder happened virtually in his back yard, but not a peep from him.Even his girlfriend couldn't get hold of him for a while

He was very active in the CSI-LA forum, that's why they ended up naming him as the "Running Man" when they became annoyed with him defending his uncle against their speculation and theories; you know, like you guys do here with anyone that doesn't buy your narrative, that recurring theme of "if it's not one of us, it must be one of them".

The initial investigative team, me, and hundreds of thousands of concerned observers see the striking resemblance of Nomsod and the person shown in the 'Running Man videos.' I know that bothers AleG to no end, and am also sure that Mon is mighty annoyed that he didn't find and trash that video in the first hours after the crime. Mon was able to stifle many things, including CCTV from his bar, but darn, that pesky Running Man video somehow got out of the bag. No worries Mon and AleG, as the investigative team was changing heads, both Nomsod and Mon went from being prime suspects to becoming permanently excused. So don't worry. Nomsod is perpetually free from inquiry. And the statute of limitations for murder in Thailand is 20 years, so those guys are already 7% there.

Thailand's top cop, based in Bangkok, put himself in charge, and Panya was given a promotion, a desk job and told to keep his mouth shut about the case forever. He's a good boy, and did what he was told. The new head investigator already got Mon and Nomsod permanently excused, and (surprise!) found scapegoats who were poor and powerless. Well, actually one of the scapegoats, MM, wasn't as clueless as the other two. He probably asked for a lawyer to be present. Anyhow, he wasn't as pliable as the other two, so he was let go (even tho he shows up on CCTV several times that night). Interesting that even the RTP claim there had to be more that two perps, to overtake a big guy like David. The self-replacement head investigator, after arranging things to please the headman (and headman's people), then miraculously was able to purchase $12 million in stocks at Wattana Capital investment firm. We don't know whether the headman moved large amounts of money, because no Thai can look into that. Off limits, as is Nok Air flight manifest, phone records, CCTV from the bars, boat drivers from KT, and many other items which could shed light on who's responsible for the murders.

How can anyone disagree with that? sick comes to mind!

A guy and his babe 3 seconds in front of a primary suspect in a double murder:

Exactly my point.

_{The case didn't particulary interest me to be honest.}

_{It was just a case of wrong place wrong time, shame it happened but it did.}

_{Nothing about the case will stop any tourists visiting Thailand. Its yesterdays news.}

Wrong, I've crossed Thailand off my holiday list, and have convinced several others to do the same.

Yes, a drop in the ocean, but from small things, big things grow.

Shame about your attitude. Thousand of people will not go to Thailand because of Koh Toe and the bad reputation Thailand has for it's policing and justice system, you underestimating the situation, the adverse publicity over the net must have had a profound effect. Not everyone is as shallow as you are.

Just so there's no confusion, my post referred to manxninja and not sartoric.

Nomsod in the photos that his lawyers claim as proof he was in Bangkok.

With highly dubious time stamps...

As you can see, he's still uncomfortable with his very recent haircut.

_{The case didn't particulary interest me to be honest.}

_{It was just a case of wrong place wrong time, shame it happened but it did.}

_{Nothing about the case will stop any tourists visiting Thailand. Its yesterdays news.}

Wrong, I've crossed Thailand off my holiday list, and have convinced several others to do the same.

Yes, a drop in the ocean, but from small things, big things grow.

Shame about your attitude. Thousand of people will not go to Thailand because of Koh Toe and the bad reputation Thailand has for it's policing and justice system, you underestimating the situation, the adverse publicity over the net must have had a profound effect. Not everyone is as shallow as you are.

Maybe if you look at the CCTV which was released by the students lawyer of him entering his University residence the morning after the murders, you will see a very significant different hairstyle to the one when he appeared a few days later to protest his innocence.

Maybe he is a follower of fashion and wanted to look good on TV or maybe.......

I watched the entire Anonymous video. A few interesting items which haven't been mentioned in the numerous threads on T.Visa: In the CCTV video of Nomsod crossing the lobby at the students' apt (his only alibi for supposedly not being on the island that night), shows him wearing dirty white shorts - which look like the white shorts worn by Running Man.

After following every twist and turn of this case for over 15 months, here are some stand-outs (it's hard to pick just a few, because there are so many indications of screw-ups by Thai authorities):

>>> losing Hannah's clothes. And not even checking her clothing before the conveniently lost it.

>>> losing the hair, and of course, not diagnosing it before losing it

>>> blatantly lying about the Nomsod's DNA test and it not matching DNA from the crime

>>> dismissing Panya with a promotion (and probably a big clandestine payment) to a BKK desk job and a promise from him to never utter a public word about the case.

>>> Nomsod getting let off permanently with the soggiest of alibis

>>> Mon let off permanently. If he would take a truth serum and tell what he really knows, it would change everything we've heard from RTP.

>>> Head policeman Somyot and wife plopping down a cool $12 million to buy stocks, a few weeks after NS and his uncle were permanently whitewashed as suspects.

>>> No questions for the KT fast boat driver who slept in a cave at Samui, day after crime. Police said he was too drugged to talk to, so cops permanently ignored him.

>>> No checking of NOK flights, no checking of mobile phone activity, no checking of probable suspects: all who are buddies of Mon

>>> Letting Sean go. Not bothering to find or talk to other possible witnesses: MM3, two french girls, MM-DJ

>>> Mysterious deaths of two other farang backpackers, shortly after the initial crime. One was at Mon's g.h.

>>> Police hiding/destroying CCTV along with Mon. Police saying they didn't look at CCTV of a boat leaving island soon after crime because "we didn't think it was important."

......and that's just a partial list. I'm sure other posters here could add dozens of other items proving how the RTP screwed up and/or intentionally skewed evidence and/or purposefully didn't pursue leads. Disgusting. RTP deserves all the bad press it gets from this case.

Any of you guilty followers please give your views on any of boomers points in this post.

All the key points are right here.

Nomsod was playing with is hair when crossing the lobby and in the lift because he just had it cut, that's the most likely reason, lot's people put their fingers through their hair in an attempt to rearrange it after having it cut, it's a natural reaction for lots of people.

If you type, Thai murders, British brothers questioned into your search engine, click on the relevant heading and scroll down the page, you’ll come to a frame of two people walking the same route as the running man took, if you then look at the running man footage and stop it immediately as he is coming back from the opposite direction to which he first went, you will see the ghost image of this couple leaving the frame, this footage has been edited, there is approximately two minute missing, which would have shown people travelling this route at that same time. McAnna and Christopher Ware both had cuts to their right arms, the Ware brothers shared a room with David and McAnna was David’s friend, David ended up with no clothes on and the B2 ended up with missing clothes. We need the friends of David and Hannah to tell what they know, that's the only way we're going to get any were near to knowing truth, that means the BBC or the like investigating.

007 what Mickey Mouse evidence exactly?

They had a fair trial and were found guilty, sorry you don't like the outcome.

Time to move on.

OK, you move on and we'll wave good bye.

If people want to keep this thread going I suggest you join those of us who decided to ignore Lucky11 and the other shills some time ago. It is clear their intention is to close this down as previous shills (or them in previous identities) have managed before. Don't let them bait you. There clearly is no point in responding to them since you are never going to change their position.

I disagree. Let them talk. It's not about them baiting us. I'm not going to explain the logic behind what I've just said but whoever is smart enough will understand it.

This thread has already generated over 200k views.

Most people will agree that it's to have debate that can be analysed and scrutinised, but it's not achieving anything when it's just repetition, it just becomes frustrating and annoying and it's doing nothing enhance the cause.

Dej-Udom said the Law Society had set up a committee to scrutinise the court's verdict, but the association might not be able to file an appeal within 30 days after the sentence was handed down. The lawyers might seek the court's permission to extend the time frame in order to help them understand the verdict, he said.

How much scrutiny do they need, it's been scrutinized for over a year.