Our Man in the Tropics

On 5/20/2022 at 4:13 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Your research seems to be giving you incorrect information 

from my account here are 2 calls

 May 16 22:53    +441359xxxxxx, United Kingdom Call $0.023     12:21    $0.350
Apr 09 13:28    +442076xxxxxx, United Kingdom Call $0.023    53:43    $1.300

the rate to the USA landlines is also $0.023 (as with many countries) so a call rate of well under $2 per hour seem reasonable 

 

Thank u, sometimewoodworker, for this very helpful information ;

And,- it referring to very recent situation.

 

I have been delayed in  pursuing the overall matter since engaging in this thread discussion ;

But,- this week it crossed my mind to resume this mission over the next few weeks.

Hopefully I will have reason to post personal success soon.

Thank u DrJack54 for improving my forum-use knowledge.

 

Yip, given the authoritative fact supplied by Ubonjoe,- I hereby request that any of the mods close this thread.

 

And so some poster somewhere saying applicant can be successful in submitting "combo. of alien-spouse's monthly-income + Thai wife's monthly-income" as fulfilling the monthly-income requirement for extension of stay on basis of marriage was wrong.

 

I very much like the editing of my original title.

Nonetheless,- perhaps, for sake of www researchers on this thread's topic, & perhaps the Asean Now archives,- the mods might re-incorporate, with phrasing as they determine apt, into the title that this thread is essentially querying if "combo. of spouses'' incomes are permissible ?

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

Many thanks to above posters for answers with conviction that are convincing ;

Ubonjoe's answer with relevant reference especially.

 

I will relay the unfortunate fact to my friend.

 

Here is guessing that this thread will be closed soon against further replies.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

Dear Fellow Asean Now Posters,

 

Does the Department of Immigration accept for R-E-N-E-W-A-L of Extension -- on basis of Marriage to Thai national -- on Non-Immigrant Visa_Type "O" the Monthly Income requirement being satisfied by ;

 

"combined" Income of "Alien + their Thai Spouse" ?

 

 

Alien spouse continues over a number of years to be employee with work-permit ;

I gather that this spouse's monthly income from that job is less than required monthly income of THB 40,000.

 

Thanking yee in advance for your earliest helpful replies.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

 

Dear Fellow AseanNow.com Posters,

 

Is it "permissible"* for Non-Immigrant from any of most high-ranking [ ref. freedom-to-enter most countries ] Europhile countries [ viz. E.U., & certain other European countries ( e.g.s U.K., Norway, Switzerland ) ], & U.S.A. & Canada, & Australia, & New Zealand, inter alia to work [ perhaps prior-approved "Voluntary" Work ] in Thailand if they have only ;

 

Non-Immigrant Visa_Type "O" Entry with Extension of Stay given for Reason of "being-Parent-of-Thai-Child" ?

 

*

"permissible" as in they can get Work-Permit while on above Visa Type Entry [ "O" ] with Extension of Stay given for above Reason

 

 

Thank u in advance for all ur most helpful replies.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

In the case of a Thai being the legal father of a child the only option would be to adopt them with the father's consent.

Legitimization is only needed if the parents were not married.

Thanks again, ubobjoe, for very helpful info.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The legitimization of parenthood is only needed it if not married to the mother of the child. If married after birth of the child that makes them legal parent.

Prior to the age of 7 (less at some Amphoes) the legitimization has to be done by way of a family court.

You should read this pinned topic on the family and children forum. 

 

 

Hi ubonjoe,

 

That which u say is very helpful info. ;

 

The 1st item I did not know ;

However,- I daresay that there is many the marriage where the only child[ren] is[are] of the Thai wife prior to her marriage to the foreign man.

I reckon if the foreign man is good parent & agreeable with such child[ren],- it may be in the interest of all that he be legitimized as a parent [ but subject to other birth parent ( male ) consenting ].

Herein,- I presuming that such legitimization of parenthood is not automatic, & thus must be applied for.

Perhaps,- the court is the only avenue for that scenario ?

 

Of course,- the original poster's circumstance is that he is the father of the child, & he is married to the mother.

So,- that assist which I recommended is not relevant to his particular situation.

 

I will study that pinned topic that u give.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

Irrespective of birth parent's personal relationship with the other birth parent of the child,- it is an extra benefit for either, & indeed both, & also the child, to get "Legitimization of Parenthood" Certificate granted by Amphoe Registry-Office where child is registered as living.

If u cannot get cooperation from other parent to get from respective Amphoe Registry-Office,- u may apply through the local court.

 

I think that Legitimization of Parenthood can only be applied for when child is 7 years or older ;

Perhaps other Asean Now posters will confirm & elaborate or correct on this point.

 

Required :

 

A_

Applying Parent

 

A_1_

Applying Parent to be at Amphoe Registry-Office in-person with the child [ & other parent ]

A_2_

Presentation of original Passport

A_3_

Proof of applying Parent's living place [ I not sure if this needed in this instance ] :

A_3_1_

Rental Agreement & / or House-Book where applying Parent is living

A_3_2_

Bill & / or Envelope from authority [ govt. or private utility company ] addressed to this applicant

Unless if living with the other Parent if that other Parent is Thai ;

In that case,- the House-Book should be sufficient.

 

B_

Other Parent

 

B_1_

Other Parent to be at Amphoe Registry-Office in person with applying parent

B_2_

Presentation of original Passport or official ID Card issued by Thailand Govt.

B_3_

Proof of this Parent's living place [ I not sure if this needed in this instance ] :

B_3_1_

Rental Agreement & / or House-Book where applying Parent is living

B_3_2_

Bill & / or Envelope from authority [ govt. or private utility company ] addressed to this applicant

Unless if living with the other Parent if that other Parent is Thai ;

In that case,- the House-Book should be sufficient.

 

C_

The Child

 

C_1_

Birth Certificate of Child ;

Should have proper name of child ;

Not generic name given while waiting for father to recognise parenthood of child for issue of Birth Certificate having the proper name of child.

C_2_

Presentation of official ID Card of Child issued by Thailand Govt.

C_3_

House-Book of where Child resides

C_4_

Child to be at Amphoe Registry-Office in-person with the applying parent [ & other parent ]

I not sure if this is point is stipulated.

Perhaps other Asean Now posters will confirm & elaborate or correct on this point.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I suspect that I have omitted some necessary documents to be submitted ;

So,- perhaps other Asean Now posters will clarify on this point.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

Hi TimBrit,

 

I read-for-gist the article u gave the link for ;

Very interesting.

And,- being kept open for proper reading.

Of course,- it will be bookmarked too.

Many thanks.

 

Still,- I perceive that all of the situations referred to in that article do not apply to the

 

"off-shore from Thailand company" -- British Virgin Islands [ B.V.I. ] -- purchase at 100 %, & accordingly granting 100 % ownership, of 100 % of the respective land to the owner[s] of that company [ e.g. non-Thai(s) ] situation

 

that was confirmed by our very impressive fellow poster "wjdw".

 

Did u read that thread supplied as link in the very 1st post of this thread ?

And, especially,- did u understand, & note, the stunning information being confirmed, & elaborated upon, by "wjdw" ?

 

Let's remind ourselves that no country is allowed -- by the folks who control the world -- to ultimately totally evade facility for any foreigner to "100 % own" AND "100 % control" AND "personally occupy" [ if so decided ], some "100 %" of any parcel of physical land marketed for sale ;

Otherwise,- these folks will categorise that country into being a so-called "rogue" state.

Eventually,- they get proxy-warrior bad-bush country of the day to smash such a country.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

15 hours ago, BritTim said:

Short answer: unless this is a BOI sponsored company (which means a company that the authorities believes brings unusually big benefits to Thailand) the answer to all your questions is "no". Land ownership is one of the benefits that BOI sponsorship can confer, but the application is complicated, and forget using this as simply a way to overcome normal laws against land ownership by foreigners.

Thanks for ur helpful reply BritTim ;

U do give convincingly useful info. about Bord of Investment [ B.O.I. ] option.

 

However, were u to view the URL I supplied in my original post above,- u will find confirmation by fellow poster wjdw that an "off-shore from Thailand" company -- owned only by Falang[s] non-citizen[s] of Thailand -- can indeed 100 % own 100 % of respective land in Thailand.

Ref.

Very knowledgeable, & convincing, confirmations -- notably from poster "wjdw" & subsequently conceded with more-food-for-thought as so by poster "chiang mai" --  in thread link below that "off-shore from LOS" co. can legally 100 % own land in Thailand

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/952232-off-shore-from-los-co-can-legally-100-own-land-biz-address-dwelling-in-los/

 

 

Dear fellow Asean Now dot.com Posters,

 

Here is hoping that similarly persuasive replies will feature in this thread to explain :

 

1_

Can the "off-shore" co. [ or other co. ( if necessary ; please elaborate ) ] operate a biz. on :

 

1_1_

some of this land ?

or

1_2_

all of this land ?

 

2_

Can the "off-shore" co. [ or other co. ( if necessary ; please elaborate ) ] construct dwelling for their Falang owner & /or non-owner Falang personnel, on :

 

2_1_

some of this land ?

or

2_2_

all of this land ?

 

3_

What type of biz. can the "off-shore" co. [ or other co. ( if necessary ; please elaborate ) ] perform on this land ?

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

 

Ref.

Fact that officially the jab treatments for Covid are only optional in Thailand

 

How can "non nasal-swabbed" plus "non-jabbed" Falang from country, of the 30 Day Visa Exemption category, "exit" & "re-enter" Thailand :

 

1_

without getting "Nasal" *¹ -Swab Test :

 

1_1_

before exiting Thailand ?

 

1_2_

"entering" & / or "exiting" the other country*² ?

 

*¹1_3_

Surely,- an alternative to "nasal" test is available ?

 

*² I would appreciate list of countries that facilitate the total of these logistics

 

2_

without getting jabbed :

 

2_1_

before leaving Thailand ?

 

2_2_

"entering" & / or "exiting" the other country ?

 

2_3_

entering Thailand ?

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Calling card with free local access?

I recently visited shops in Bangkok I know to be specializing in international calling-cards as recently as some 7 years ago ;

They told me that international calling-cards are no longer available in Thailand.

 

I confess that I do not understand your "... with free local access" part of your sentence.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Some claim some global Skype plan is cost-effective.

I forgot about researching Skype anew ;

Have just done so on your prompting.

There appears to be costly charges in addition to the basic charge-per-minute.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

You are calling fixed lines, or mobiles, in those countries?

fixed-lines [ land-lines ]

&

mobiles

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

termination tariffs in countries

I in the dark as to what are "termination tariffs".

 

From your phrasing "in countries", I presume ;

such tariffs are charged by the phone-call receiving country's network ?

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Many thanks, mtls 2005, for what is a helpful reply anyway.

 

I think I should continue to pursue enquiries on the "wifi only" option.

 

Over the weekend I hope to visit  customer-care centre of each Thailand based network for to get satisfactory understanding on their "wifi only" services, & the costs to me for phoning "land-lines" & "mobiles" located in those 4 countries I list above.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

 

Ref.

"Pre-paid" S.I.M.s of AIS, or DTAC, or True, networks

 

Question ;

Per each of the following destination phone-numbers :

 

USA phone-numbers

UK phone-numbers

Canada phone-numbers

Ireland phone-numbers

 

1_

what is cheapest rate-per-minute ?

 

2_

from which network[s] is the respective cheapest rate-per-minute ?

 

Ref.

"Pre-paid" S.I.M.s of AIS or DTAC or True

 

Ref.

365 Day Pre-paid S.I.M.s which allows 10 mega-bit [ or higher ] / second Bandwidth un-limited throughout the 365 day period

 

Question ;

Will WiFi phone-call service allow user to phone, & converse, to "mobile phone numbers" & "landline phone-numbers", outside of Thailand at no extra cost to user's SIM ?

 

I particularly interested in contacting :

USA phone-numbers

UK phone-numbers

Canada phone-numbers

Ireland phone-numbers

Dear Fellow Aseannow.com Posters,

 

I have searched extensively on the internet for mention that the famous actor Peter O'Toole appeared on the B.B.C. Radio 4 programme "Desert Island Discs" ;

Alas,- in vain have I found listing of him.

 

For such an accessible entertaining icon of the theatre & cinema & talk-shows,- it surely must rank as one of the most bewildering omissions if he an absentee.

And,- ironic too when we reflect that he was star of the movie Man Friday which was based on the novel Robinson Crusoe.

 

Perhaps,- aficionados of Desert Island Discs will respond with conclusive information regarding this matter.

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

you must transfer at least 40,000 baht every calendar month into Thailand.

 

I had thought that this is a condition.

 

 

But,- I do not see it in :

 

rescinded Police Order 777/2551

 

replacement, & current, Police Order 138/2557

 

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

I have sympathy for you thinking you need to use such words, which many do not understand.

 

My typical [ mode ] average vocabulary-simplicity count, throughout the year

IS LESS THAN

the typical average poster's typical vocabulary-simplicity count throughout the year.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Please realise that my approach is gaining progress on this issue ;

An issue which is a very serious matter for some alien parents & their children.

 

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I tried that but still do not know what you  are on about, sorry.

I think there is an institution for the promotion of simple English.

 

I have sympathy for you encountering my writing style in this forum ;

But,- it is a necessary writing style.

 

I think part of my most recent post should be re-phrased thus ;

 

The Police Order wording does not state what you contend it means ;

If it did,- I suggest that it would use such phrases as ;

 

the Income per month must ALWAYS be per month THB 40k as minimum

 

the monthly Income must ALWAYS be per month THB 40k as minimum

 

But,- the Police Order allows the Income per month to be less than THB 40k, or Zero, per any one, or any other number less than 11, or all 11, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING [ but, of course, were the income not per 28 days, or per calendar month, or per quarter year,- surely the applicant would be applying on basis of THB 400k Savings ? ] during the preceding 12 months, so long as ;

 

the total income

DIVIDED BY

12

iS EQUAL OR GREATER THAN

4Ok.

 

 

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Thank you for the compliment. But I do not understand what you are on about. It is SO SIMPLE. A minimum of 40k per month into Thailand. DONE.

 

Perhaps re-read my 2 most recent posts to you until you do understand ;

Often works for me in overcoming a mind-block ;

 

Humility is an actual vaccine I do believe in.

So also is Self-Confidence [ not to be confused with Arrogance ]

Together,- they greatly help me in my learning.

 

As a reminder also ;

The Police Order wording does not state what you contend it means ;

If it did,- I suggest that it would use such phrases as ;

 

the Income per month must ALWAYS be THB 40k as minimum

 

the monthly Income must ALWAYS be THB 40k as minimum

 

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

13 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I personally do not need any clarification. I know what AVERAGE, TOTAL and DIVIDED mean.

 

I did not mean that disparagingly ;

 

Rather,- I surprised that you, whom I note to be an intelligent poster in Thaivisa.com forum, also seemingly have the mind-block that some other intelligent interlocutors have ;

viz.

wrongly interpreting the conditions as obligating the Applicant to have "minumum" / "at least" THB 40k  A-L-W-A-Y-S  every month [ or every 28 days if you accept this distinction about the incremental periods ].

 

I perceive that the word "minimum" is what has created that mind-block.

And,- so I decided to go-back-to-basics ;

No harm in that when the need beckons.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That immigration order was rescinded in 2014 when immigration order 327/2557 was issued.

You can download it here. Police Order 327/2557 

I quoted clause 2.18 from it in an earlier post.

 

Thank you, Joe, for  that ;

 

I note this excerpt ;

 

2.18 In the case of being a family member
of a Thai national (applicable only to
parents, spouse, children, adopted
children, or spouse’s children):
Each permission shall be granted for no
more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.
(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto: or
(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children,
adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as
part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person
hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or

Translated by Siam Translation for thaivisa.com. The translation of this document is for information purposes only.

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have
deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the
age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of
Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a
case-by-case basis.
(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average
annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht
400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for
one year.

 

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

If you interpret it as 40k from all sources added together, it is the SUM, the total of those payments and not the average. Well it was in O Level maths!

All these references to 'average' should read 'minimum', then there is no question or doubt about what is required.

 

The word "minimum" is not an obstacle ;

It only specifies that the average must be "equal or greater than" THB 40k

 

And,- for your clarification ;

Average =

"Total Income for all the preceding 12 Months [ 365 Days ] as a total period"

DIVIDED BY

12 [ divisor is 12 because of modifier "monthly" or "per month" modifying the "Income ... throughout the year / preceding 12 Months / 365 Days" ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Were the "Conditions & Criteria" for Consideration of an Alien's Stay ..." use the phrase "must always be Baht 40,000 minimum each Month",- then the mind-block from the refusing Thailand Immigration Official[s], & the refuters here,  would be justified.

And,- then there would be no purpose to use the word "average" either.

 

But,- the Police Orders :

 

use no such phrasing for the detriment of any of mine [ my child inter alia ], & Thailand society, inter alia

 

but rather clearly intend to achieve the civilizing result, in this specific case*, for the benefit of "the individuals pertinent to the circumstance [ especially the Thai child ]", & "Thailand societies locally, & Thailand society as a whole", & I guess, foreign jurisdictions for they to accordingly replicate [ Thailand, & Thai, love children, & set good example for other countries to emulate ], of ;

alien parent who is 50 years, or more old, & who has Non-Immigrant Visa Type "O" given for reason of visiting Thai child, having monthly average income of THB 40k throughout the preceding 12 months, staying in Thailand in parental relationship with the child.

 

*Other specific case apply also

Please read the Excerpt from ubonjoe's link which I quote in my next post.

 

I found the following from ;

 

http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/downloads/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

Note ;

Translated by Tilleke &Gibbins

Revised by Legal Div. Royal Thai Police Headquarters

©2009 Tilleke &Gibbins International Ltd. All rights reserved

2.18

In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto;

or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age;

or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

 

Remarks ;

 

1_

The phrase

"... average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month ..." :

is [ strictly speaking ]

an oxymoron

viz.

annual income IS HERE WRONGLY BEING DEFINED AS income per month

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_

The statement given to me by Thailand Immigration Bureau in official communication uses the likes of this phrase ;

 

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year"

 

2_1_

It would be better written as ;

 

2_1_1_

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

or

 

2_1_2_

"average income per month of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_

The word "average" is "critically positive for the applicant" / "damning for the refuter"

 

Note ;

I think it is reasonable, & universally accepted, to understand the word "average" here as specifically meaning "mean average".

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_1_

Ref.

2_1_1_

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

The word "average" here is an adjective

Moreover,- the adjective "average" modifies the phrasal noun ;

"income ... throughout the preceding 12 months".

 

And,- the adverb "monthly" simply explains "what type of average it is",

viz.

an average whereby the total is divided by the number of applicable months [ here it is 12 months ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_2_

Ref.

2_1_2_

"average income per month of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

The word "average" here is an adjective

Moreover,- the adjective "average" modifies the phrasal noun ;

"income per month ... throughout the preceding 12 months".

 

And,- the noun-phrase "per month" simply explains "what type of average it is",

viz.

an average whereby the total is divided by the number of applicable months [ here it is 12 months ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Notes ;

 

A_

Emboldening of words, & phrases, are done by me

 

B_

Arguably ;

"monthly" / "per month" implies ;

the yearly income arrives to the applicant on "monthly / per month" basis.

 

In reality ;

Most people who get paid a pension "monthly / per month" get paid every 28 days.

 

Thus,- an applicant is very likely to have some instances of :

 

2 pensions arriving in same month

 

zero pension arriving in a particular month

 

And, so,- one can understand, & accept, yet another reason why the wise good-hearted government original creators of the wording "deliberately AND knowingly" use the word "average",

viz.

allow the Thai child to benefit from having their alien parent to be present in Thailand supporting them even if the parent gets zero income in a particular calender month but as "monthly average / average per month" receives THB 40k minimum per month over the 12 months preceding the application.