newnative

I think we all remember reading similar posts during covid. Buyers will dry up, and expect prices to steeply drop. There are too many condos for sale and there will be bargains galore, take your pick. During covid, my partner and I sold 2 condos and a house, all at a profit. We did not notice a lack of buyers, which did sort of surprise us. All 3 sales were to people living in Thailand; 2 were foreign buyers with Thai wives, the house buyer was Thai. Anyway, with some money in our pockets, we eagerly awaited picking up some covid bargains--maybe at your '40%' off. Lovely to snap up a nice seaview condo, at a quality project, for a song. Well, of course, it never happened. Never saw any terrific 40% off bargains in any projects we would have been interested in buying into. Not to say there weren't some bargains--there are always some bargains to be found in good times and bad--but nothing we would have wanted to own--quality seaview condos in good locations in good projects. We'll see what happens with the proposed tax changes, though I think my partner and I are pretty content with the new home we are just finishing--although we've said that before.

Actually, although the majority of the studios are a pretty similar 48 sqm in VT3 thru 7, with front door at one end and large balcony at the other end, what happens in between those two points can be, and usually is, completely different from condo to condo. That's because all these studios--and the larger units as well, came as empty shells, without even a finished floor. Buyers were free to do whatever they wanted within those walls and they all had a blank canvas to work with. So, they chose their floor tiles, ceiling designs and lighting, what furniture they wanted, and whatever size and style of kitchen they wanted to have built--from basic to well-equipped. Unlike later condo projects, many of which truly were 'cookie cutter', with the exact same kitchens, the exact same furniture, the exact same lighting, and, in some cases, even the exact same wallpaper and art on the walls, you never know what you will find when you open a View Talay door--which makes things interesting. My partner and I did 6 or so of these View Talay shells--often living in the finished project for awhile--and we definitely had our own take on what we thought worked best with the space. We liked working with a blank slate but many buyers want a finished condo that allows them to just move in and everything is done and ready for them--even if it looks exactly like the one next door.

And what floor, what view, what condition, etc.

Agree.

That's my take, too. You're certainly 'mostly inflation covered' for what is usually the biggest monthly expense--keeping a roof over your head. No matter what inflation does, your paid-off condo ownership doesn't change. You don't have to find more money each month for an adjustable-rate mortgage that just adjusted up. Or, find more money for an annual rent increase. Of course, you do have condo maintenance fees, which are very reasonable here, and utilities to pay--which renters also have--no getting around either--but, nice to have a big monthly budget expense about as in control as possible.

I don't know how the Chinese couple will be paying for their house. There is also a single, female Chinese buyer who is also buying in the project. Perhaps their funds are already here--but that doesn't answer how they got them here.

No reason you can't always look presentable, and still be comfortable. When I am out, always a neat, collared, short-sleeve shirt, in a lightweight, wrinkle-free cotton or cotton blend, in a variety of colors and patterns. Walking shorts, solid color (no plaid shorts and striped shirts) coordinating with the shirt colors, with the pant legs of the shorts stopping just above the knee. No baggy, below the knee, multi-pocket cargo shorts, ever. Comfortable, athletic/walking-type sport shoes with white cotton socks. Lightweight, small-scale shoulder bag with all the stuff one needs to carry these days. Good to go.

I'm curious to hear your thinking as to why someone would be, in your words, 'roadkill as inflation goes up', if they, as you say, 'bought property in the last few years'. My spouse and I are in that category. In the last few years, we bought a condo and two houses. Sold the last of the three just this past Monday, as I mentioned in another post. Made a profit on each of the sales and we are now scheduled to go to closing, by the end of the month, to buy a house we have been building most of this year to live in. The house has already increased in value as the year has gone on and we could sell right now and make a profit, should we choose. We don't. So, we will have a nice roof over our heads we own free and clear, plus a chunk of cash already here in Thailand, from our 3 property sales, to draw upon. What, pray tell, makes us 'roadkill' in that scenario? By the way, if the price of a loaf of bread doubles due to inflation, it makes no difference if you're sitting in a rental condo or one you own--you'll be paying the higher price either way if you want that loaf of bread. The baker doesn't care a fig if you own or rent The guy who owns, though, might have some extra cash in his pocket to handle the price increase, since he didn't have to shell out what might be a fairly sizeable amount of his monthly income to pay the rent. And, yes, to be fair, on the flip side, the rental guy might have gotten a nice monthly dividend check, because he invested his money in stocks or other investments, rather than buying a condo. So, he can also have extra money in his pocket and afford the price increase on the bread, if his investment picks have panned out. Neither one 'roadkill', in my book. That might be the guy who did nothing, and just watched his money steadily fritter away.

Correct--and, no matter how many times this fact is posted, it's just ignored as it does not fit what they want to believe. Also true, and also ignored, in 2019 the majority of Chinese tourists were not in tour groups, budget or otherwise. Instead, over 60% were traveling independently that year.

I think you've hit it. Certainly it would seem ridiculous to slap a big tax on large sums of money coming in to buy a condo, a buy which helps so many interconnected businesses and industries that are such important components in the Thai economy. Not just ridiculous but madness, in my opinion. There will always be some Thai buyers for any condo project. But, will there be enough for each project built to buy the 49% of the units that foreigners often buy in a project? In many cases, I think not. There's been such a poor job so far of, as you say, 'clearly defining what it means...', that we have 100+ pages of fear, panic, and uncertainty on the original tax proposal thread trying to puzzle it all out. And, as everyone knows, fear, panic, and uncertainty are not positives when the subject is the state of the economy. I've decided to nickname the new prime minister PM Sansiri. And, I hope he will soon be getting an earful from Mr. Supalai, Mr. Lumpini, Mr. Raimon, Mr. SC Asset, Mr. Noble, and all the other big hitters in the housing industry. Maybe they can knock some sense into him.

My partner and I just sold our current house by Lake Mabprachan on Monday. Korean/Thai couple, buying as an investment to rent out. We are now in an almost finished, newly-built house in a new project, also near the lake. Our build started in February. The first phase of 5 houses are all sold, and about finished. The second phase of 25 more houses have started construction and all but a few have buyers. Yesterday, a young Chinese couple, one of the buyers of a phase 2 house, knocked on our door and asked to see our almost finished house. They seemed very nice and friendly, with good English. We've also had an older, retired Dutch couple also ask to tour our home and they ended up buying one of the remaining phase 2 homes, just beginning to be built so they can have some input on the design, materials, and finishes. All of the buyers we have met, so far, plan to live in their homes, rather than buying as an investment, in this new project. Our last house was sold after the new tax proposals were announced--as were the Chinese and Dutch buys I mentioned. It remains to be seen what the proposed tax changes for 2024 will mean for the housing and the real estate market down the road--if and when they take hold. Housing, of course, is a huge economic segment that contributes greatly to all the large industries that are part of it--everything from big and small appliances, electronics, plumbing and electrical products, lumber, concrete, tile, steel, lighting, furniture, landscaping, and all the other building materials industries, plus all the jobs involved with all of the businesses, including designing, engineering, constructing, marketing, and selling property. Should housing take a steep nosedive in Thailand in the coming months and into the new year, especially with the vital foreign buyer market, I know where I will be pointing my finger.

I guess I'm a rarity as I stayed in my same job, at the same location, my entire career. I was a library assistant at a community college library and I was in charge of the circulation and reserves desk, as well as assisting the students with research and locating material--many of the years were before the internet and Google. Our original circulation system still used punch cards. Also worked one evening a week and every 4th Saturday at the reference desk. It was a new community college branch and I started when it had been open less than a year--so it was an all-new staff. Nice with us all starting out fresh. It was a small staff of 6, with some part-timers, which I also liked. It was a 2 floor library and I was usually the only staff member manning the second floor, so I was pretty much my own boss, with nobody constantly looking over my shoulder--which I loved. I could structure my work flow every day, and mostly do my required tasks when I wanted, as long as the work got done. The library director's philosophy was to hire good people and leave them alone to do their work. Fine with me. I enjoyed working with the students--new ones arriving each year--and I liked the community college concept and just the whole environment. We had a great mix of students--kids right out of high school and also older folks--workers learning a new job or skill, mothers going back to school, now the kids were older, retirees trying a painting, creative writing, or horticulture class, etc . I think at one point the average student age was 29. Made for interesting, rewarding days. I've always enjoyed interior design and that was one of the 2-year programs at our campus branch of the community college. So, we got beautiful interior design books for the library and subscribed to all the related magazines, such as Architectural Digest and Interior Design. I helped process the new books so I could snare anything interesting first. I've loved reading all my life so my job involved something that I enjoyed--which was nice. One thing I liked with the job was writing, in the later years, a monthly book review column highlighting a few of the new popular fiction books the library had received, for the library's website. At one point I was offered a job at a small, department library at a US government agency in Washington, DC. It would have meant more pay but also a commute into the city each day, and the work duties did not look nearly as interesting as what I had--so I stayed. Another factor was the the very nice co-workers at the library. Some, whom I started with at the beginning, we're also still there when I retired; and others had been there 10, 15, or more years--I think a tribute to it being an enjoyable place to work. The salary was lousy--state worker--but the benefits were good and you could retire after 30 years and get a pension--also small but guaranteed for life and with COLAs built-in. I chose to retire in my early 50s--a bit burnt-out--but worked evenings part-time at the same job for another 5 years before moving to Thailand with my partner. During this period, with my days free, I started to put to work everything I had picked up reading all those interior design books and magazines, and I began dong some condo fix-up flips. When my partner and I hit Thailand in 2010, we decided to continue doing condo renovations--20 or so at this point--and now also a few houses, while he also works his legal job. It's been interesting and mostly fun, being sort-of a late bloomer with this semi-second career.

Exactly.

Not liking that sentence at all regarding the suspect 'resisting attempts to make him confess to the murder'. Wonder what those 'attempts' were. Hopefully not plastic bags put over his head. Also scandalous the part about the police now having to go back (WORK, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE) and actually take a look at the evidence. Wow. First we have to WORK attempting to get a confession out of him and when that wasn't successful, more WORK looking at boring evidence--if any was even collected. Where can I sign up for one of those 'inactive posts'? Nobody told me there would be work involved when I signed on. Hopefully we can just go through the motions before trying some more 'attempts' on him.

Do horrendous, law-breaking things as a government official and your punishment is being sent to an 'inactive post'--or selected as a government minister. Drive what looks like a pretty crap government car for personal use and get 50 years in jail. Just nuts.

Ditto for the US. Perhaps some of you have been following the saga of the poor landlord trying to evict an Airbnb tenant in California--not paying rent for months and months. In some cases landlords are forced to provide moving and relocation costs in order to remove a delinquent tenant--I thin the mentioned tenant is demanding that--what nerve after being so many months delinquent in rent! My sister had a terrible time evicting a female military tenant who went AWOL to Canada with a man she met. (Female, military, good steady job, you'd think a model tenant.) Had to hire a lawyer, show paperwork attempts to try to contact the tenant, wait a long time for a court date, finally get the court date, the tenant does not show--of course--so, with the tenant not there, the judge sets another court date. More legal expenses. Rinse and repeat. This went on for almost a year before my sister was finally allowed by the court to remove the tenant's possessions and re-rent the townhouse. Meanwhile, during all this time she was having to pay the mortgage, utilities, insurance, taxes, community HOA fees, etc., with no rental income coming in to offset the expenses. I would never be a landlord in America with things the way they now are.

Seems like he is not listening to anyone, 'experts' or otherwise. Giveaway scheme is awful, new tax proposals even worse. Plenty of ways to raise revenue, starting with all the valuable land masquerading as 'farm land' with a few banana plants on it, avoiding bigger taxes. Property taxes could also be raised moderately and bring in a lot more revenue. I know we paid a pittance last year and I wouldn't have minded paying more if they laid off taxing my imported income as a tradeoff.

So new, improved haircuts on the way, new, improved uniforms on the way, but nothing on the way for new, improved actual police work being done. I'm going to call total bull on the following, which I am shocked and awed that anyone could have uttered with a straight face: The adjustments are seen not just as a mere change in grooming standards but a step forward in enhancing the adaptability and responsiveness of the Thai police force amidst diverse and dynamic challenges.

Yes, your Thai tax man should only be interested in what comes into Thailand. And, again, his first question should be to anyone, not just you, how much of that money coming into Thailand is shielded DTA and how much is not.

It seems like if it is a 'great' tax office their first question to you should have been how much, if any, is this 480,000 baht shielded DTA income, not subject to Thai taxes.

Thank you for your kind comments, although I think not always as polite as I should be--I will try to work harder on that. I always look forward to Peterw42's take, and others, on real estate as well, and other topics. I find there are many posters, Sheryl comes to mind, and the late Ubonjoe, who take the time out of their lives to explain and provide information that I'm sometimes in need of, living in Thailand as a foreigner. I, for one, am quite thankful to have this Forum to call upon. An added, enjoyable bonus is the often lively, far and wide, sometimes wildly off-topic discussions on just about anything and everything. Fun.

But, my understanding, only liable on money sent to Thailand, where it now becomes assessable for taxes. Not sent to Thailand, not assessable, no tax owed in Thailand. Hope this interpretation is correct.

It's my understanding that I can, indeed, generate off-shore tax-free money while being a tax resident of Thailand--staying over 180 days--for tax purposes. For example, I earn $10,000 a year in stock dividends that are earned in the USA, and sent to my USA bank. I am under the impression that this money only becomes 'assessable' for tax if it is remitted to Thailand. Otherwise, Thailand can't touch it and collect taxes on it. Is this incorrect?

Thanks!

It is my understanding--so far--that only taxable income brought into Thailand is considered 'accessible' income, meaning income that can be got at by Thailand and subject to possible Thai taxes. Taxable, accessible income would be income sent to Thailand and not shielded by dual taxation agreements. So, if I brought in USA social security money, or Virginia state government pension money, both shielded by the USA dual tax agreement, the money is not considered 'accessible' income and not subject to Thai tax. There seems to be some uncertainty regarding pensions but I think state, not 'private', 'government' pensions are covered. Could be wrong, but that's my thinking at this point. One option I might consider is directly depositing my SS in a Thai bank, which now goes into my American bank. This would establish a verifiable paper trail of specific, shielded money. Other income that I might bring in, such as dividend income, is 'accessible' for tax and I could be liable to pay that tax. There seems to be several ways around that. I could transfer the money in and designate it as a 'gift' to my Thai partner. Apparently 10MB a year is allowed for that. Could be one option I would consider if that is actually the case and allowed--and the paperwork is not too onerous. There seems to be a number of deductions to use, should I decide to declare the taxable income brought in. It looks like I can deduct 190,000 baht right off the top since I am over 65. With the remaining amount, there seems to be another 150,000 baht deduction to lop off and that leaves you with a sum to be taxed on a sliding scale. Possibly some other deductions, as well, that I have not looked into. Once everything is figured in, the tax might be too much, depending on how much is brought in. But, I'm still liking the 'gift' thing. Each year I earn approximately $11,000 in dividend income on stock I own, plus some interest income. It is my understanding that this money can be subject to tax. But, it is my further understanding that this money only becomes eligible for tax if it is remitted to Thailand, where it now becomes 'accessible'. Left in the US, it is my current understanding that I would never be responsible to pay any Thai tax on it. It remains inaccessible for Thai tax purposes. If this is, indeed the case, i will not be sending any of this money to Thailand. I am one of the fortunate ones with a large chunk of cash already here in Thailand. I could theoretically probably live off this money for the rest of my life--or a good part of it--without bringing in any money from abroad. Left unanswered is whether the revenue department would come knocking on my door demanding an explanation on how I am supporting myself with no money coming in from broad--possibly with a deep dive into my finances; questioning when and where the money originally came from--and what type of money it was--interest, pension, social security, savings, etc. A lot of concerns like this are still up in the air. Anyway, that's where I am at this point with my thinking, some 94 pages in on this thread. I welcome any corrections or misconceptions on my part that I have made--I am definitely still learning. I am still in the dark on what paperwork that might start to be required--whatever methods, schemes one chooses for their types of income and remittances. I imagine to be determined at a later point.