newnative

It actually is a hobby of sorts for us. My Thai spouse has a regular job and I am retired. I think our only 'business savvy', if any, was always buying seaview condos, both in Rayong and Pattaya--and, we always did that because we, ourselves, wanted a seaview. We always buy and renovate with ourselves in mind, not a future buyer. Most of the projects were small, because that was all we could afford in our early years here. It was easy to move from place to place because we always sold the condos furnished. We did six View Talay studios, for example, plus at least that many small 1 bedrooms at different projects. We were always fixing up places for us to live in ourselves, which we did--just for not too long. I don't think much in the way of 'details' is missing. Things are simple here, with real estate, compared to the US or the UK. Transactions can, and often do, conclude in a few weeks, or less. In our case, we have never had any of your mentioned marketing or advertising costs. We list with as many realtors as we can, which is free, and we use free marketing, such as Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. You don't necessarily need to use a lawyer to do a real estate transaction here, although I would recommend using one if you are uncertain about the process and what should be, and not be, in a real estate contract. In any case, just a small expense. I'm not following your statement, 'You can sell at a profit but still make a loss overall.' In my book, you either make a profit or you don't. It's always one or the other, and easy to tell which, if you keep accurate expense records. We always pay cash for a property here so there are no mortgages involved, and no costs associated with them. Also, no appraisal costs, no termite inspection costs, no costs to test for radon, no settlement attorney fees, etc., here. But, yes, always closing cost fees and taxes, and usually realtor commissions. It's all pretty cut and dried. You are correct that there are monthly maintenance fees and utilities. We don't bother to figure them in because, frankly, they are so low here, and we see them more as cost-of-living items. For a year, it might be 50,000 baht, more or less, for a condo's maintenance fees. The house we just sold had monthly estate fees of 1,500 baht, or 18,000 baht a year. Utilities don't figure in at all, in my opinion. We also don't figure in rent savings, although we do save on not paying rent.

My spouse, whom I met in the US, is Thai.

Agree. Very common practice.

No, of course you don't make those kinds of profits here. Perhaps, I should qualify that statement to just speak for myself and my spouse and say that we have not made those kinds of profits here. Maybe others have, and I don't want to speak for them, but we have not. However, it is also true that we have never lost money on any condo or house purchase we have made in Thailand. Never. That includes 2 condos in Rayong. 1 condo in Bangkok. 2 houses in Pattaya. And, 18 condos in Pattaya. The larger 2 and 3 bedroom condos and the houses made bigger profits than the smaller studio and 1 bedroom condos, but they were all profitable. Since we have only been in Thailand since 2010, it's easy to see that most of the above properties were not owned for very long--none for your 10 years. 5 of the Pattaya condos were bought as rentals and then sold when we decided we didn't want to be landlords anymore. We have always made a profit because we don't sell until we do make a profit. It's that simple. We have, luckily, not been in a situation where we needed to sell quickly, even at a loss. Deals will come along, even during covid, when we sold a condo and a house. Even during a pandemic, people need a roof over their heads. Sometimes properties sell quickly, sometimes patience is required.

Plenty of reasons 'why'. If you actually lived here, rather than, perhaps, just visited the tourist spots, you'd know why lots of people choose to live here, rather than anywhere else in Thailand. My spouse and I could certainly live anywhere in Thailand--we have a Bangkok condo and spend time in Bangkok now and then--but we choose to live in Pattaya full-time. It just suits us better than anywhere else we have been in Thailand, for a variety of reasons 'why'. As a growing city, apparently many others feel the same way.

Blah blah blah. I didn't see anything concrete being proposed that would actually make a difference--just more of the same old same old.

Not necessarily true that a condo buyer '...is just sitting in the same place for the 10 years.' My spouse and I have been in Thailand since 2010 and we have owned condos and moved around in Pattaya from one owned condo to another eleven times, plus 2 moves, so far, in Bangkok. Not to mention our initial move from a condo we owned in Rayong to Pattaya. Certainly, one can stay in a single place, if that's what floats your boat, but owning has never kept us from moving when we wanted to try a different area. Or, in the case of the Bangkok moves, from a smaller condo to a bigger one closer to the MRT.

Totally agree with your post. And, there's nothing stopping a condo owner from also investing in other financial investments besides the condo he/she has purchased. You're allowed to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I disagree. Some of the nicest condo projects in Pattaya are in Wong Amat, including The Cove, Northpoint, The Palm, Saranchoi, Zire, and others. North Pattaya/Wong Amat has also attracted a lot of the new development the past few years--Terminal 21, Centre Point Space, Arom Wong Amat, Ozo Hotel, etc. New signs up recently for a large highrise project coming near The Cove.

I said it was normal that there was such a thing as condos sold with parking spaces in condo projects in Thailand, and not just in Bangkok--in response to your post, from another poster, that you had never seen any, and the whole idea was, in your words, 'ridiculous'. In regard to using the word 'normal', one example. It's normal for some people to have naturally wavy hair. It dosn't mean everyone has naturally wavy hair. Ditto for condo projects, regarding parking, reserved and otherwise. So, you then changed your story (where Trump comes in, just for some fun) and replied that if there was such a thing, it would only be in super-luxury projects. I again pointed out that this was also not correct, and gave several examples off the top of my head, none of which are super high-end condo projects, which you claimed were the only ones that would have such a thing. I think that sums it up. Take a deep breath--it's no big deal. And, feel free to skip right over anything I post.

So, now you are qualifying your answer, saying yes, my answer was correct, this is only true for 'ultra luxury buildings'. Something is either true or not true. There's no 'alternate truth', much as Trump would have you believe it. In any case, View Talay 7 and View Talay 5C, possibly 5D in Pattaya, whch are not 'ultra luxury'. In Bangkok, my condo, high-end but not 'ultra luxury', has units that came with reserved parking spaces that were purchased with the condos. The rest of the parking, which is ample, is on a first come, first served basis.

Quite normal--and not just in Bangkok.

With regard to the sqm issue, the realtor may have assumed you were aware of how condos are measured here. Thailand does not have an MLS system--multiple listing service. It's perfectly normal for a property to still be advertised for sale and yet actually be sold--by another agent in another agency. There is no way for an agent to go on to a centralized MLS-type system and get up-to-date information on a property's status--still for sale, under contract, or sold. Several years ago we sold a condo in Northshore. We had it listed with a lot of agencies. I think it is still advertised on Hipflat with a few obscure agents, even though I notified most that it had sold. If you see it on Hipflat and ask about looking at it with your agent--or even the agency with the listing on Hipflat, the first thing they will do is check if it is still for sale, or did it sell with another agency. If it is sold, I see nothing wrong with an agent asking if there is anything else they can show you. We still get calls for some of our condos that have sold years ago--that's an agent doing their job and checking first that a property is still for sale before taking you around to see it, only to discover it has been sold. You have a legitimate point with an agent connecting the right properties with the right buyers. Several times we have had buyers view our properties when clearly our property was not suitable--for reasons such as too small or too big, priced way over buyer's budget, etc. These cases were mostly with what I would call non-legitimate agents, and, in some cases, not really very serious ones. We try to work with legitimate agents from established offices--and those are the ones who have mostly sold our properties, but we are gracious and welcoming to any agent who brings a client, even if it sometimes turns out to not be a fit. You never know . . . A good agent, from a legitimate, established office, should do a detailed interview with the buyer before showing properties--no good agent wants to be wasting their time showing you something not suitable. It's also up to the buyer to be as specific as possible as to what they are looking for and give a maximum budget--there should be a good two-way communication going on between the buyer and the agent before the first property is viewed. It can be helpful to view photos of properties before you set out. If you like the 'great room' concept and the house the agent wants to show you has the kitchen hidden away, you might say strike this one and find me something where the kitchen is visible from the lving/dining areas. If you like a big kitchen island, say so. Ditto for a bathtub or two car garage. If you do not want a condo facing west under any circumstances, say so. Ditto if all ground floor units are out. The more information, the better. And, if an agent or agency isn't meeting your needs, for whatever reason, look elsewhere.

I should add that the OP is incorrect about both the age of The Base and its original average price per sqm. As I mentioned, my partner and I were original owners of a top floor seaview 1 bedroom unit, 35 sqm. We paid 3MB for the unit. That works out to about 86,000 baht a sqm., not 150,000 baht. We sold for about 122,000 baht a sqm. and Hipflat has the current average price per sqm at around 120,000 baht a sqm.

Lots of Pattaya condos are over 100,000 baht a sqm., especially new and high-rise. The Edge, next door to The Base, at one point was priced at around 180,000 baht a sqm. during the pre-construction period. Hipflat still has it at 178,888 baht per sqm. We actually were one of the first owners of a 1 bedroom condo at The Base and rented it out for a year. But, we could see the Airbnb problems arising and sold it after the first year of owning it. I think the OP's experience is not typical for most condos that have avoiding becoming Airbnb hotels. We have owned at a number of different projects and most were being maintained fairly well. I think some of the new projects, that have been really slammed with Airbnb tenants and, really, have been used essentially as hotels, without the much higher maintenance a hotel requires, have started to show some of the effects.

Thanks for the info!

My spouse and I are visiting the Kyoto area and the weather here has been spectacular, as well. We were afraid it would be cold this time of the year but the temperatures have been in the 60s Fahrenheit with sun and blue skies, cooler in the mornings and evenings. The autumn leaves are at their peak--beautiful drive through the mountains today. The Silver Pavilion in Kyoto is a must-visit if anybody gets to Kyoto. Wonder places to visit in this area, including an ancient village. I love Japanese architecture and gardens--it's been a terrific visit so far. And, not a too-long plane ride--Osaka was just around 6 hours from Bangkok.

I think it's a no-win situation with super stars. If they don't do it, they get horrid comments on how awful they look. If they do have plastic surgery, they also get horrid comments on how awful they look. Take your pick. Jane Fonda is a good example of someone who I think did it right--and, apparently had a terrific plastic surgeon. But, she has also kept herself extremely fit, so the plastic surgery went hand in hand--and she just ended up continuing to look terrific as she aged, and still does. I remember watching one episode of the tv show she did with Lily Tomlin and, in one scene, Fonda casually lifts her leg with no effort and rests it up on the kitchen counter--probably late 70s at the time. I thought to myself, I doubt I could do that--and if I tried I'd probably land on my ass.

And, if you actually did get bored in Thailand, which I find unlikely, why are you still spending time on a Thai chat forum?

My spouse and I had a lovely dinner cruise a year or so ago. Can't remember the name of the cruise company but it departed from Asiatique.

I have no idea what the calculated size of the condo you were considering has to do with your topic 'thai realtors never fail to amaze me'. My partner and I, over the years, bought 5 or 6 View Talay project studio condos in Pattaya. All were 48 sqm, which included the very sizable balconies. The size had nothing to do with any of the realtors in Pattaya, none was responsible for coming up with the size of the condos. A couple weeks ago we sold our 23rd property in Thailand since our arrival in 2010, a house on the Darkside in Pattaya. I should amend that to say a realtor sold our 23rd property in Thailand. Some of the 23 we sold ourselves but most were sold by a realtor working hard finding and bringing a buyer to see our property for sale--and, of course, there was other work before and after that. It never fails to amaze me how hard all the legitimate realtors we deal with work. I have stated many times, and will here again, that I am far too lazy to ever be a realtor--but very grateful for the service they provide.

Well, he was just named on Time Magazine's 2023 '100 List' in the 'Leaders' category. Nice honor.

Don't forget that a large number of them will be inheriting a big chunk of change from their parents, who also inherited, or will inherit, a big chunk of change from their parents. Famiies used to be large--my 5 siblings and I split our family trust 6 ways. Now, there's usually just a couple of kids to split the inheritance. A lot of wealth was created by the 'greatest generation', which tended to be thrifty, at least my parents were even when they no longer needed to be, and the baby boomers have been no slouches, either. I know all my nieces and nephews--I'm not sure what generation category they fall under--will be inheriting nice sums at some point from their baby boomer parents, none of whom was lazy. Their kids, I guess, would be Gen Z, and all that wealth will eventually go to them. So some, I guess, can afford to be a little lazy and maybe not take work quite as seriously as previous generations did.

Should be scrapped altogether or massively scaled down to just the neediest.

I've lost count on the number of times this has been proposed, studied, debated, committees formed, etc., etc. Now, yet another committee, this one with an unwieldy 60 members. Likely all yakking into the next century.