Arkady

I tried to upload the Nationality Act, as requested about but it seems that AN no longer accepts Pdf or Word files for uploading which makes it difficult. I don't have a link on hand but there are plenty online. One thing to be wary of is that you need the 1965 Nationality Act, as amended up to 2008. There was also an amendment act in 2012 but I don't think any of it was relevant to naturalisation, although there was important stuff for those born in the Kingdom after 1992 and displaced Thais from neighboring countries, whose ancestors lost Thai nationality in the after the bits of neighboring countries seized by Thailand under Japanese auspices in WW2 were taken back by the European powers after the war. Re digital WPs. Has anyone used one to apply for citizenship yet. Do you get a print out that you can keep for your records. This would certainly be an issue for anyone changing jobs in the 3 year qualifying period. Previous legislation allowed you to keep the cancelled hard copy version. I did this by quoting the Working of Aliens Act at them and they gave it to me with very bad grace. But that law was superseded by a Royal Decree of Prayut's.

When I was applying SB showed me a Korean guy's naturalisation certificate that was about to be presented and I asked how it took. She had a quick look in the file and said "11 years" with some embarrassment.

If you go to the interview and tell them, or they somehow find out, that you have retired since you applied, that will be the end of your citizenship application. It would also be the end, if they found out you had been unemployed for a bit, since you applied, and were back in work but with a gap in your WP. I know this for a fact because I had the experience of sitting down at the MOI with the head of the nationality section as she thumbed through my old and new WPs to check there was no gap. When she had finished, she said, "I am so glad that was all in order, Khun Arkady, because, if I had found a discrepancy, I would have regretfully had to reject your application." The problem is that the Act requires you to have an occupation and they interpret this as an ongoing requirement until your approval is published in the RG. However, there are unlikely to be checks after the interview, Even at the oath swearing SB has not historically been strict on WPs, although they do ask for copies and maybe the original. In that kind of situation best to say the WP is with your HR dept because the are changing the name of the company (actually happened to me) or something. The reason SB give for the strictness over remaining in employment is because the requirement for an occupation is in the Nationality Act. Yes the length of time you have to wait for an interview these days makes it seem unfair but this is Thailand and it looks like they are getting stricter in enforcing this than in the past.

That's an important point. You need to stop statins, such as Lipitor, while taking it or the side effects can be quite serious and there may be other common meds that clash with it. My brother-in-law was not allowed to take Paxlovid at all due to the cancer medication he was on and couldn't stop. He was given Molnupiravir instead.

Excellent news that they have resumed interviews at long last. The bad news is they are asking for tax returns and WPs at the meeting. That will sink people who have ceased working before the interview. That has always been a significant risk.

I don't think you need a pink card to apply. Some going back a year or so offered copies of his pink card and they refused to take it. As far as a I know it it something that district offices are obliged to issue under the Civil Registration Act but there is no law saying foreigners have to have one.

I went to the ARI clinic at Samitivej Sukhumvit about 10.00 am. I was out about 40 minutes latter. They gave me an ATK test. A PCR test was available but the results take about 4 hours. I might have had that and other tests done, if the ATK was negative but it was positive. The chest X-ray showed signs of incipient pneumonia. So the doctor told me to come back for a follow up X-ray 5 days later by which time my lungs were back to what they were before. I felt completely better by then in all aspects except that I still had mild sore throat. I now realise that my insurance with AXA UK will not cover the entire cost of the drugs, as there is a cap of GBP 500 a year for OPD drugs. I think it was still worth it because I have no way of knowing how sick I would have been without the Paxlovid and it did seem to clear things up in 24 hours. It might have been the same without it but better not take the risk, I think. The other medication I was given was an antihistamine, Pseudoephedrine decongestant (only available in hospitals since 2012), bronchdilating medicine to dissolve in water, codeine for cough suppression (also only available in hospitals) and paracetamol for fever. My experience with Paxlovid was a lot better than when I took it in 2022. It did seem to work then but I got the famous but milder rebound symptoms after about 2 weeks. That time I tested positive for 21 days vs only 5 days this time. Apparently Paxlovid is available in pharmacies like Siam Drug. I don't know their price but it should be cheaper than in hospitals.

There are many reasons why the MOI is a sought after prize, both financial and political. The ministry is involved in organizing elections.

Seems like Ung Ing is going to take about 3 weeks to form a cabinet and claims she will start afresh rather than stick with the Srettha choices. I still think Anutin is in a strong position with the second largest party and will bargain hard to keep the Interior which is, after all, regarded as the prize ministry. But we'll have to wait and see what happens. Mobs don't necessarily slow things down. The red shirts were occupying Ratchprasong in front of National Police HQ during my application with SB and the NIA called me for interview at McDonalds Ratchprasong which was being used for R&R by senior red shirt figures, some of whom I recognized. It was only possible to get there on the BTS, as the roads were blocked. It didn't slow things down a bit. The police worked as normal iwith the racket of the loudspeakers in front of their HQ and my application was forwarded to the MOI within three months of starting the process with SB. Delays only happened at the MOI.

I expect we have all been watching the political pantomime over the past couple of days with amazement and wondering what it might mean for citizenship applications. I doubt the minister will sign any approvals while he is in caretaker minister status but that probably won't make any difference, as there is no evidence that he has signed any, since taking over the job. Since the new PM has already been voted in, I don't think there will be much delay in appointing a new cabinet and getting their Royal endorsements, so they can officially start work. Media reports suggests there will not be much change from the Srettha cabinet and, if true, that would suggest things are already pretty much agreed and there will be minimum horse trading and delays. Since Anutin seems to have gained clout over Thaksin and Pheua Thai during the course of the Srettha government, I would expect him to retain the Interior Ministry which is a very powerful portfolio that he obviously liked and would want to retain. If that's the case, then there is likely to be little change in the current snail like speed of processing applications beyond the SB level. If it is someone new, we will have to wait and see what is his approach to citizenship and what sort of priority he places on it. If it's any consolation, there have been several slow periods in the last couple of decades but they never last for ever. Sooner or later the logjam breaks and things start moving again.

You should not feel so bad because you could not have applied for citizenship based on marriage in 2007. The Nationality Act was only amended to allow for that in 2008 and it was not well known that this was possible until 2010. SB admitted to me that the MOI didn't like that amendment and instructed them not to give any information about it, unless people knew and specifically asked. It is a matter of timing. If you had been making the decision a few years later, it would have been a no brainer to apply for citizenship but in 2007, PR was your only option.

I tested positive for COVID in Bangkok yesterday. I had two days of mild symptoms, no fever and negative tests. The second day it got better and I thought it was a common cold. Then I woke up in the night feeling really bad with fever, terrible headache, sinus pain, worsening cough and runny nose and unable to eat anything. I went to Samitivej Sukhumvit and found they had set up a COVID clinic in the car park with a chest X-Ray facility in the car park. There were several other patients there. The doctor prescribed Paxlovid which I accepted and the cost was 24,960 baht which is reasonable at least, if compared to the US and Bamrungrad prices. I have taken three doses of Pax now and feel almost better already 24 hours later. It might not have been the Pax. On the other hand I might have continued to deteriorate without it. Luckily my UK insurance will pay as I called them in the traffic jam on the way to the hospital. For my previous dose of COVID in 2022 I was in the US and was given Pax free as a foreigner at a CVS branch, as that was government policy at that time. That time I took it about 12 hours after symptoms started and never felt really ill at all, although I had a vaccine three weeks earlier. I haven't had a vaccine now since Jan 2023. My feeling is that Paxlovid is worth it for oldies and other high risk people, although it is a tough decision, if you don't have insurance that will cover it. If you get seriously ill and have to hospitalized, it will cost into the hundreds of thousands of baht.

In Vang Vieng in Laos there have been many tourist deaths caused by the mixture of tubing and alcohol. I expect the same is true in Pai but reporting is suppressed.

The big committee meetings are contingent on the little committee meetings and usually take place quite soon afterwards. I expect they would have organized things so that a big committee meeting was held to clear the last little committee approvals under the previous government, as they could guess a new government might stonewall them and they have gone to the trouble of interviewing them. However, that is just my guess work. If that was done, there is no need for big committee meetings at this point. Unfortunately the minister can stonewall applicants already approved by the big committee under the previous government indefinitely. It says in the Nationality Act that it is up to his discretion. I expect the logjam will break eventually. It is unusual for nothing to move forward at all under a particular government but it can be precious little.

There has definitely been no new regulation issued regarding citizenship since the current regulations were issued in 1967. New regulations were drafted in 2022 but have never been issued and they didn't include the provision you mention. Superficially it looks theoretically possible to do because the Nationality Act specifies 5 years' "residence" but not PR. However, the intent behind that wording when the current act was issued in 1965 was clearly PR. This is because it would not have been possible to accumulate 5 years' residence, while working in the Kingdom, without PR at that time. There were no NON-B visas or marriage extensions then. There was only PR and visas of a maximum of 3 months. You could do business on a 3 month visa, as there were no WPs, but you would have had to keep leaving the country and coming back to apply for another 3 month visa which would not have counted as continuous residence. No one would have tried because it was so easy to get PR in those days. I doubt this would be changed within the life of the current Nationality Act and don't see why any bureaucrats or politicians would have an interest in making such a change. When the act was amended in 2008 to allow men with Thai wives to skip PR, it was a big deal and was resisted by the MOI, which successfully diluted the original bill that would have allowed foreign males to get nationality without working in Thailand to have parity with foreign females married to Thais. But in that case there were Thai women's rights advocating for Thai women to get equal rights for their foreign husbands and the bill was sponsored by a lady Democrat party MP. Who would push for those without Thai spouses to get nationality without PR? Getting PR first is a very normal requirement for citizenship in developed countries, including countries with large scale immigration. Thai police would be very unhappy about this, as it would put their PR sections at Immigration virtually out of business, except for those from countries that prohibit dual citizenship. I see you have already answered the question about Germans who are now liberated from the former racist law aimed at preventing Turkish guest workers and their families from obtaining German citizenship. Very sad for Thais living in Germany who were forced to renounced their Thai nationality to obtain German nationality, as there seems to be no easy way to recover it. Under Section 23 of the Nationality Act Thai women who got German nationality through marriage can apply to recover Thai nationality but they need to submit divorce papers. Section 24 seems to say that other former Thais may also apply to recover Thai nationality but it must be done within two years of reaching the age of majority. I am not sure about this section but I guess it refers to children of Chinese immigrants who got Thai nationality through birth in the Kingdom but lost it for some reason, perhaps because they went to study in China for more than 5 years. Anyway I am guessing it is redundant today.

Sadly no wriggle room. Being currently employed is a requirement set in concrete in the Nationality Act.

For information candidates don't meet the big MOI committee. They are interviewed by the little MOI committee. The big committee meets traditionally within a few months to review applications approved by the little committee to confirm they can be forwarded to the minister for signature. It seems to be mainly rubber stamp that is required by the Nationality Act. I assume they may review more than one little committee batch at a sitting. The agencies that sit on the two committees are exactly the same, i.e. 8 out of 15 are MOI departments, but the departments tend delegate less senior staff to the little committee. Of course the head of the nationality section is most likely always there.

I don't think that showing a WP is an official requirement at the oath taking ceremony. SB has to verify that it is the same person who originally applied, which is why they finger print you again, but they don't have to re-check qualifications. Of course they will ask for all your documents and make copies of them. But, if you tell them, you haven't got your WP with you because it is being renewed or something, unless things have changed, they will just say Mai Pen Rai and won't ask you to come back another day with the WP. I seriously doubt that things have changed. By that stage the minister and HMK have already signed and no one wants to go back tell them that they allowed them to sign for someone who wasn't actually qualified because they failed to double check they still had a WP before sending their documents for signature.

Any comment on bail for someone who spent 17 years as a fugitive from justice would be superflous.

Congrats. The district office seems very over the top. I think Big Joke's grandstanding about naturalized Thai criminals has had an impact. Let's hope he doesn't make a come back as police chief but that is not at all impossible.

As DrJack54 said earlier please ask your questions on the ongoing citizenship thread https://aseannow.com/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/ No need for a parallel thread on the same topic. This thread will now be closed.

First of all there have been many people who applied for citizenship less than 5 years after getting PR because they were also married to a Thai. That means their application is on the basis of marriage, not PR. If anything happens to their marriage before the MoI interview, they are no longer eligible and have to reapply from scratch on the basis of PR. Secondly there has been divided opinion over the years at the nationality section at the MoI as to whether the 5 years' residency requirement for citizenship can be partly or wholly fulfilled by time spent on regular visas prior to obtaining PR, or whether the residence requirement can only be fulfilled by 5 years' PR. The Nationality Act doesn't specify that it has to be PR but that has been an MoI interpretation. Up until the first Thaksin regime in the early 2000s, Immigration prided itself on approving the prior year's batch of PR applicants before opening the window for the next batch of applications. So waiting 5 years after that wasn't considered such a great hardship. But an element of xenophobia crept into the system under the Thaksin government and his first interior minister, a man who was accepted as a PR by New Zealand, described the applicants for PR and citizenship as worthless people contributing nothing to Thai society and even criminals and rejected entire batches who had to reapply from scratch. That was the start of lengthy waits for PR and citizenship. My understanding is that in the mid 2000s, about the time this thread started, the MoI was taking pity on people who had waited 5 years plus for PR under the new system and started to allow applicants to count time prior to PR towards the 5 year citizenship requirement. I was aware of several cases who got citizenship on that basis and bear in mind that until 2008 there was no marriage route to citizenship for males and that applications on the basis of marriage were not even readily accepted until 2010. However, this window lasted only a few years and by 2010, they started getting lots of applications from males based on marriage and the MoI decided to tighten up another of issues to try to stem the flow, including the points system and stopped accepting applications on the basis of PR without 5 years of PR. At the time I applied in 2010 they were knocking back applications with less than 5 years PR and making them reapply from scratch. Some of them were unfortunate, as SB officers advised them to apply without realizing the change was coming at the MoI. Others came with lawyers who forced SB to accept the applications which they did but they got rejected anyway. My case officer showed me a batch of applications that had just come back from the MoI for this reason. The MoI only reviewed the files when they got to the head of the interview queue. So they waited about 3 years to find out that their residence qualification had been rejected. The 3 or so years wait could not be counted as part of the 5 year requirement. It is quite possible that applications are now being accepted again on the basis of less than 5 years PR. For anyone in this position, it is worth asking SB but take into account that SB often doesn't know what will happen to applications at the MoI.

This is correct. VAT was introduced at 10% soon after the 1997-8 Tom Yam Kung crisis at the suggestion of the IMF. It replaced a complicated sales tax but was more straightforward and was supposed to raise more revenue. After the IMF conditions were met, which was long before Thaksin came to power and claimed he was the one that got Thailand out of the IMF programme, the government decided to give the hard pressed public some respite from the unpopular new tax and temporarily reduced it to 7%. Successive governments have been too terrified of voters to put it back up to 10%. So they have decreed more temporary waivers every 2 years. It is pretty certain that with such poor economic growth and low tax revenue it is only a matter of time before the government just allows the 10% VAT to come back by default. It is such an efficient and hard to avoid tax that, once done, it is unlikely that they will pause at 7% for very long. They see European countries charging 20% plus.

Yes, books are exempt from Thai VAT and import duty but there is an argument I have seen that only the books are exempt, not the cost of freight and insurance.

The French lady allegedly killed herself with a .45 pistol. Where did she get it from? .45 caliber is not very popular with Thais any more. More recoil and needs more practise or training. But army shooters, such as military police still use .45 side arms following the US model up until the 2000s when they switched to 9mm. Of course it could just be that she asked for a gun and someone happened to have a .45 kicking around at home.