Arkady

On 12/19/2018 at 11:40 PM, cmsally said:

There is normally some Thai culture questions and specifically religious ones. Good idea to at least pretend to be Buddhist!

I was asked if I could read Thai to which I replied yes and then promptly asked to read signs on the tables, so don't fake that one.

I think I put them off asking questions because I talk so much .

It was an odd atmosphere which you can get when its a bunch of fairly important Thais that don't know each other and therefore not sure how they should interact.

I don’t think you need to pretend to be Buddhist. Bear in mind that the vast majority of applicants are Asians, many of whom have firmly held non-Buddhist religious convictions of their own. They also give a choice of Buddhist, Muslim and Christian versions of the oath. Showing understanding and respect for Thai culture and Buddhism is good enough, if it comes up. 

Good advice not to overstate your capabilities with respect to Thai language. One applicant who had just sung the Royal Anthem was asked if understood the lyrics, which, he having answered in the affirmative, was immediately followed by a request to explain the meaning of a couple of the lines. Any foreigner who has ever looked carefully at the rather high flown language of the RA will know this is not an easy task, unless you have dissected it word by word, some of which are not even to be found in the Mary Haas dictionary.

Many the officials at the MOI interviews do know each other, as they attend these sessions regularly and over half work at the MOI. The format at my interview was that the chairman, a senior MOI official lead the early part of questioning. Then the head of Nationality Section, whom I had already met, took the lead for next part. Finally the floor appeared to open at the end for representatives from non-MOI agencies to ask questions. I got one from a lady from Immigration. After the meeting she introduced herself and asked some follow up questions for her own interest. I think she had asked something about the Thai economy.

Remember that, if you are applying on the basis of a Thai spouse, they are not required to give you a pass or fail on knowledge of Thai language and your spouse is allowed to help you out.

On 12/17/2018 at 11:58 AM, LivinLOS said:

and if you are working online that tax liability starts from day 1. 

 

Thailand does not operate a 183 (or 180) day rule for earned income only passive income. 

My understanding is the same, i.e. that you are liable for Thai tax on any earned income arising from work in Thailand, regardless of how long you stay. For example, I believe that some one who comes to Thailand to do a short term job for a Thai company for, say one month, with proper work permit would have tax deducted at source but could claim tax back by filing a tax return form.  Anyone who works for a Thai company from offshore will have 15% withholding tax deducted. 

Correct me if I am wrong.

On 12/15/2018 at 9:52 AM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

As mentioned above, this announcement was only for foreign women having Thai husband, and they have a much easier route in the way no occupation nor income is required by the applicant - which must explain. As for male applicants, everyone has read in this forum advice given to rather register on a tabian baan in Bangkok and drive the application through SB (with perhaps the exception of Phuket and a couple of other cities).

 

Historically the address profile of foreign wives under Section 9 in the announcements was about the same as naturalization announcements, I.e. overwhelmingly in Bangkok with an occasional sprinkling of names from tourist provinces like Phuket and Chonburi. However, there was a case of a foreign wife living in Samui several years ago, who had to move her TB to Bkk because Surat SB flatly refused to process her application.

Somehow things changed in the announcement of of a huge backlog of wives soon after the 2014 coup. That announcement included a significant number of addresses in minor provinces as well as a significant number of Indochinese and Burmese nationalities that had hardly ever appeared on the lists before. 

One can only guess that some minor provincial SBs were accepting applications from wives but they were not getting anywhere before the coup because substantial bribes were being denanded at the provincial level that applicants could not afford.

It must be a bit easier for SB to process wives’ applications because most of the vetting is applied to the Thai husbands and the hurdles are very low. In view of all of this, it certainly seems worthwhile for wives living in the provinces to try to apply where they are before considering a move to a Bkk TB. We should also be mindful that whatever it was that created the huge backlog of wives in the provinces might re-emerge after elections.

21 hours ago, jayboy said:

My White Certificate of Residence book is nearly full. I also have to get my new multiple re-entry shortly. I'm not sure whether issuing the new book can be easily (and quickly!) done at the same time as getting the multiple re-entry. Would it be sensible to make these two separate exercises?

Yes, you can get both things done at the same time and they expect you to do this, so there is no problem.

An off topic post was deleted.

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

It's only one year marriage required as they have children -and I assume: together-.

 

I was required for my home country criminal record in my application to Thai citizenship last year.

 

Thanks for the corrections. The home country police clearance is relatively new for citizenship.  I didn't need it for PR either and there was no Thai language requirement for PR, which cost B52,000 all in regardless of Thai wife or not, in those days. As time goes on both processes can only get harder and harder. So no point in procrastinating.

2 hours ago, roulax said:

Hi everyone,

 

just sharing my experience on applying for PR as I was in Chaeng Wattana this morning.

 

My application was not accepted as there were some missing stamps/certifications on revenue slips, and my criminal record was more than 3 months old (although the translation and certification by my embassy and MoFA was done last month...)

i still have until the 28th December if I still wish to apply.

 

my personal situation: I am here working in nonB extensions since 2009, working for a thai company. Just married with Thai last August although we’ve been together for 6 years and we have 2 kids.

I speak thai proficiently at work and we talk in thai at home with my wife.

 

It took me a long time to study and make sure of the documents required, thanks to this site and also another friend who applied recently sharing his experience.

 

Most critical document is the criminal record, that has to be translated by an official translator recognized by your embassy , then certified by ur embassy and then by the MoFA. This took me around 3 weeks as I do not live in BKK.

 

Other tax receipts were all provided by my payroll officer in the company.

 

Other documents were not so difficult to get or prepare.

 

arriving at Chaeng Wattana alone and went to the counter to get a queue ticket, Counter D specifically for resident permit application was empty and I got in within 2 minutes .

 

immigration officer saw me alone and started talking in Thai directly. All the discussion was done in thai but I am not sure that this is a requirement or not.

anybow she asked me in which category I wanted to apply , I said i think i fulfill both work or family criteria but she told that my wife should be here if I want to apply on family criteria.

She went through all documents, and all my tax documents needed to be manually certified by revenue officer. 

Actually my tax receipts were digitally signed by the Revenue department and transmitted to my company , but anyhow not accepted.

 

Second surprise: as she checked the wedding registration (ใบทะเบียนสมรส) she said that I can’t normally apply on family criteria since we are married for less than 2 years.

 

Third surprise was the criminal record that i required and received in June, translated and certified in November but still she said that it needed to be less than 3 months.

 

the discussion ended quite quickly, the officer was very strict and not really helpful I would say, but this is probably my feeling after all that work I had done alone to get prepared for it.

 

as of today I am not sure I will complete my application, especially if I have to apply on the work criteria as cost is double.

 

my recommendation is to get really well prepared, come with a thai person to help for the speaking if you are not good enough.

unfortunately in that case, I heard many stories that you had to bribe to compensate your lack of language skills.

 

hope that this was and will be helpful to any of you wishing to apply.

If you are prepared to wait until you qualify for the marital discount, you could also consider waiting until you have been married 3 years and apply for citizenship instead.  No home country criminal record required and the application fee is only B5,000 plus another B1,000 for the naturalisation certificate, when you are approved. Many other requirements are also less burdensome and you can apply any working day of the year.  No need to wait for a special application window to be announced.  However, I accept that some people are just not interested in applying for citizenship.  Others may have issues with their citizenship of origin that preclude applying for another one.

 

I believe and hope, as just started the process, that Prayut will continue as PM. Do you think that Gen Anupong will continue as Interior Minister, I guess he must be about 70?

Yes, Anuphong must in his late 60s because he retired as army chief in 2010. Personally I doubt he will serve another term as IM, even if Prayut gets reappointed as PM.  In such a case, Prayut is likely to be at the head of a coalition of parties that will all want that powerful ministry which would probably make it hard for Prayut to give it to one of his non-partisan trusties. But we will have to wait and see.

1 hour ago, roulax said:

I confirm that this is the correct process:

 

- Get official document from your country

- Get it translated in thai by recognized/certified translator from your embassy

- Get the thai translation certified by your embassy

- Get it certified by MoFA

Here are MoFA's regulations for legalisation of translations http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/19849-การรับรองเอกสาร-(Legalization-Service).html . Rather unhelpfully they don't feature on the English version of the website which is just a shell with very little useful information .  It seems that official documents from overseas need to be legalised either by a Thai embassy in the country of origin or by that country's embassy in Thailand.  

The snag for Brits and other nationalities whose embassies have effectively ceased to exist, as far as their locally based citizens are concerned, is that, of course, your embassy refuses to provide this service for you. Therefore the Thai embassy in London is your only option, for as long as they are still willing to do it.  MoFA's regulations require that the foreign document should be notarised by a notary public or equivalent before being submitted to the Thai embassy. An acceptable equivalent is the British government's apostile service which provides apostiles (notarisations accepted under the international convention for legalisations of documents) for things like birth certificates.

I don't have the address or phone number for the citizenship department at Lamlukka and when I had dealings with them there were still at the ministry's HQ near the Royal Palace.  However, here are their coordinates within the MoI bureaucracy:

กลุ่มชนกลุ่มน้อยและสัญชาติ

ส่วนประสานราชการ

สำนักกิจการความมั่นคงภายใน

It is a part of the Internal Security Department at DOPA.  If you google that lot you will get into the Internal Security website and will find some phone numbers in the contact section which will lead you to the Section for Minorities and Citizenship.

4 hours ago, sanchobkk said:

Hi,

Just wanna add my 2 cents.

As i have been working for 10 years and eligible for all the matters, i wanted to apply for this citizenship.

Unforntunatly, things are gonna change for me next years, so i likely couldn't fill the requirement anymore.

I had the line ID of one officer at the SB branch.

I asked him on "date", meaning i d like to meet him outside his office to talk business.

He was the one telling me thr first time i went there that it will have a way to speed up the process.

So i wanted to figure that out and get an idea of how much money for how quicker could that be.

Meeting up at Central mega bangna for a cofee and start talking chill chill.

After turning around the pot, he told me a 6 figures digit could make the process faster, but only from his side, as (like you all know) they have to back amd forth with the MOI.

No garanty either of the application would be succesfull..

No many more details was given.

Well i just wanted to know wether it is possible or not.. Bit i didnt have any doubt about bribes still going on. Did you ?

Anyway there is not an awful lot SB can do for you, since they have no decision making power and their job is just to put the applications together and put them in the post to the MoI. SB seems to be processing things at an even rate and anyway they have limited latitude to speed things up or slow them down. Definitely, if you will not remain qualified next year, there would be nothing that could be done for you, probably not even if you were good mates with the current interior minister, who probably only has a few months to go. If your account is correct, you were the one who solicited the meeting knowing what was likely to happen, if you threw temptation in front of a cop, but also knowing you would have no chance to apply anyway which makes the story a bit strange.

On 11/24/2018 at 5:56 PM, Neeranam said:

I expect changing jobs is no problem, as long as there is no long period of not working, even if there is a couple of weeks in order to get a new WP.

 

Many people have changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period or after that but before the interview but no one has ever come up with a definitive answer for what length of gap between work permits might be acceptable.  I had the experience of the head of the nationality section thumbing through my work periods to check there was no gap before my interview.  I had a gap of a couple of days which made my heart skip a beat but either she didn't notice that or thought it was acceptable. 

If you do change jobs it it is worth goading your new company to ensure that the transition is as seamless as possible.  I nearly got mine to do it with no gap but, of course, they managed to screw up something even with me breathing down their necks.

On 11/22/2018 at 10:23 AM, jelu77 said:

I had to translate my criminal record from English to Thai and get it legalized by Ministry of Foreign affairs.

I think that the MoFA will not normally legalise a translation of an official document from a foreign country, unless it has been legalised by a Thai embassy or consulate in that country first.  They do legalise translations of documents produced by foreign embassies and consulates in Thailand though.   They have all the signatures of foreign consular staff who are authorised signatories, so they can verify their signatures.

36 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I wasn't asked at the MOI interview. I thought I could pretty much retire now! Better hang on just in case.

I wasn't asked for my docs at the interview but the lady who registered me said the committee sometimes asks to review an applicant's docs.  If that happens and you can't present a WP, you'd better have a good reason, e.g. it is being renewed, or your application will be in the bin.  They might ask you to present your WP later in such a case.  When you are asked for your docs for the oath of allegiance, it may be up to SB to verify every thing.  In that case, they might be willing to overlook a missing WP.  It is best to have one, if possible, rather than leave your application hanging by a thread.

On 11/19/2018 at 8:58 AM, Rugon said:

I've been working in Thailand for over 20 years and believe I qualify for Citizenship. I am a bit undecided as I am 60 years old and would probably be retired by the time I got it.

My question is to those who have gone through the process -  how long did it take you from start to finish?

Also, would it be worth it at my age?

If you already have permanent residence, you may debate whether it is worth getting citizenship as your retirement will be relatively hassle free.  However, for those dependent on retirement or marriage extensions life seems to have taken a turn for the worse, with embassies now refusing to issue pension letters after Immigration put pressure on them to verify pension incomes rather than verify the pensioners' signatures on self declarations. Things can only get worse for foreign retirees in Thailand.  There are now huge numbers of them and Immigration's view seems to be that they of little value to the Thai economy and society, unless they are big spenders locally. 

To apply for citizenship, you are supposed to remain in employment throughout the process.  However, in practice you are unlikely to be asked for your work permit after you have made the oath of allegiance.

3 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

What no inactive post's left shocking news????

They were both police privates. So, if they have really been permanently dismissed from the civil service, it is possible they were still on probation and almost certain they were freelancing without the knowledge of their direct boss. 

Sacking the ubiquitous Police Senior Sergeant Majors would be more difficult.

9 hours ago, ashkap said:

Hi all,

I'm currently a teacher at a government school and I want to get permanent residency (eventually). I earn only 30k baht from my job but I have other incomes outside of Thailand. If I bring that money into Thailand (on a monthly basis, and be taxed for it) would it be counted to meeting the minimum salary of 80k baht? Would the foreign income clash with my work permit? 

 

Unfortunately not. They want to see income from salary from a job in Thailand.  They have no interest in income from overseas.  So there is no point in paying Thai tax on it. 

Should you have a Thai wife, assuming you are male, the bar is lower.  You need a salary of B40k a month.  If you are female and have a Thai husband, the bar is lower still. You don't need any income but hubby needs, I think, B30k a month.

1 hour ago, roulax said:

Hi everyone,

 

Does anybody have the typical tests that have to be performed at the hospital for the PR?

Is there any document that you can give to the hospital registration desk so that they know exactly what has to be done during the health check?

 

Thank you

Take the form linked by Joe to a government hospital and get a certificate to show that you are free of the diseases listed on the form that are commonly found in expat professionals eligible for PR, viz Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Drug Addion, Alcoholism, elephantiasis and Tertiary Syphilis.

The doctor at the government hospital I chose for this service, Lertsin Hospital on Silom Road, was very thorough in checking me for these diseases.  He asked, "You feeling OK today?"  I replied, "Yes", and with that confirmation of good health he ticked the boxes that said I was free of all the diseases except for Tertiary Syphilis.  He told me to pay the fee and go and have blood taken for the Syphilis test which I thought was unfair because it cannot distinguish between Stage 1 and 2 Syphilis, which are permitted, and Stage 3 (Tertiary) which is not.  This was before they introduced the Tertiary Syphilis test for work permits, so you must have been getting tested for this every year anyway.  The whole thing cost about B500 plus B300 for the Syphilis test but may have gone up since then.    

Not mentioned is that he will have to raise the fine and the fair home somehow or serve time in lieu of the fine in the Patum Thani jail at the rate 1 day = B200. So 100 days for the B20,000 max fine. Then he will be incarcerated in the Soi Suan Plu Immigration jail indefinitely, if he cannot raise the airfare.