Arkady

The answer to the OP's question is complex.  I have also been mystified as to why many more qualified people I knew didn't apply.  Of course, today the Thai language requirement is a hurdle for some and the fees are no longer cheap.  When I applied in the late 90s there was no language requirement and the total fees were only B52,000 for everyone (2,000 application fee and 50,000 on success). Still many people were derisive about the idea of applying - "why would I want to do that", was a common response, and I gave up trying to encourage them to apply.  Over the years many of those naysayers, who are still here, have complained bitterly about how increasingly badly they are treated by Immigration as temporary residents and some have been beset by crises such as sudden loss of job and immigration status simultaneously. Some applied many years later, after enduring all these hassles for years, and found it was much harder than, if they had applied as soon as they were qualified. I think for most long term residents who are qualified and can afford it could but don't apply,  the real reason is that they can't be bothered.

Fortunately for males married to Thais the Thai government, in its munificence, provided a better alternative in 2008, which may work for some. That is the ability to apply for citizenship without getting PR first with virtually the same requirements, i.e. three years on a work permit, but the salary requirement is only B40,000 a month.  Strangely enough this is a much easier and cheaper option. There is a language requirement but it is waived for those married to Thais who are allowed to have their Thai spouse help them in the panel interview.

18 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Is that a recent thing or is my memory failing me ?

The requirement for knowledge of Thai was introduced in the early 2000s during the first Thaksin government which made things a lot harder in many other ways too.  Prior to that applicants were permitted to use interpreters in interviews which used to be only with individual Immigration officers.  The original Thai language test was a very simple multiple choice where the answers were obvious even to those who had hardly any Thai.  A few years later they upgraded this to a full blown panel interview with senior officers from Immigration and, I think, other agencies on the panel.  Sometimes some quite tricky questions can be asked, depending on the whims of the officers, that might require a good knowledge of intermediate Thai. I know a couple of people who fluffed the interview because they either couldn't understand the questions or understood but didn't know how to answer in Thai.  There has never been any requirement to read or write Thai.

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

True. However we'll agree that in practice having a monthly interview at the Ministry of Interior for a max capacity of approx 30 citizenship applicants each maintains a queuing backlog and eventually acts as a virtual quota of 360 granted per year. 

That may well be more than the number who apply annually.  There are also similar constraints in the PR process, as they have to be interviewed by a panel at Immigration, as well considered by the Immigration Commission which does it in batches.

Personally I don't view the crimes he committed as being any less serious than if they had been committed by someone with no money who would certainly have been given no bail and would get jail time. I don't see why he should be treated any differently, except that his fine in addition to jail time should be commensurate with his income and assets.

1 hour ago, Smokegreynblues said:

Just a heads up, the window period of new applications for PR for the year 2019 is open from July 1- 31 December 2019 this year. Previously it supposed it used to be open for just a month. 

Not bad that they have offered a 5 month window this year.  When I applied I think there was only two or three weeks of the year left and  one year in the recent past they have opened on Christmas Eve (but did extend the deadline into January).

Actually in the dim and distant past it was quite normal to open the window in May or June.  It was only as governments became more mean minded towards foreigners that they started reducing the window to a month or less.  The problem is that the 1979 Immigration Act requires the announcement of a cabinet resolution to fix the quotas by nationality for the year.  This is, in fact, utterly redundant because the Act sets maximum quotas at a 100 per nationality and 50 for stateless persons and the government only has the flexibility to set the quotas at less than 100, which it has never done.  Therefore another piece of useless legislation, the purpose of which is forgotten in the mists of time but is left unamended and adhered to rigidly in spite of the inconvenience to cabinet ministers, immigration officers and applicants.

In contrast, there is no quota for citizenship and Special Branch is open to accept applications every working day of the year. Those who are married to Thais would be well advised to consider skipping PR and applying directly for citizenship which is much easier and less expensive.

57 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Thanks

Real nice of them to hide it on the Bangkok immigration website (division 1) instead of the main immigration website.

See: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence

How early applications are accepted depends upon when the cabinet approves the quotas. I have seen be done so late in December that they extended it into January. Last year it was September until the end of the year.

There is also a new set of required documents that are dated June 2019 that was posted on the main website last month.

See: https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1560937657542.pdf

Immigration Division 1 is CW, where the PR dept is located.  To them it is totally intuitive to post it on their own website and they probably don't have access to the main one.  The fact that potential applicants woulnd't know to look there is irrelevant to the bureaucratic mindset, which those who apply will get to understand better as they pursue their goal.

What evidence was being gathered from the pool table?  I hope they do not find that indecent acts were performed on it.

I was in a bar last night where they like to attract customers of the Japanese, Korean variety by giving them ash trays and letting them smoke. Presumably that is included in their monthly payment to the cops. It was a nasty trip down memory lane to the bad old days where bars were always full of smoke.  Naturally I settled the bill as fast as I could when I smelled the cigarette and explained to the staff the reason for my sudden departure. 

The few exceptions to the rule like this make one realise how effectively Thailand, despite its abundant corruption and lack of rule of law, has in fact managed to enforce its no smoking laws.

Of course unenforceable but it might help increase social pressure on smokers not to smoke in front of children or even in doors. My brother was a heavy smoker for years and didn't mind who was in the room but a decade or so ago he suddenly decided that it was obnoxious to smoke in his own home, even if the kids were not there.  He has kept the habit of smoking outside ever since. I think it is the growing awareness that has an effect on him and others and hopefully this law might help.

Sadly this is not the first time that someone has been killed sitting in their broken down car in the emergency lane or standing near to it.  A woman was recently sent flying right over the barrier into Patanakarn Road and killed while waiting by her vehicle. Not surprising of course when Thai drivers regard the emergency land as an overtaking lane.  Drivers should be warned to abandon their broken down vehicles and wait for help at least 150 metres further down the road standing as close to the barrier as they can. 

1 hour ago, Smokegreynblues said:

The older work permit was taken by the labor and was not returned to me, just the receipt. So its just one work permit.

In the 2008 Working of Aliens Act they introduced a new provision that said the foreign worker is permitted to retain the expired/cancelled work permit for his records. I successfully did that, as have others, after the usual small argument with the counter clerk involving pointing out the law that they were supposed to be following.  Since the junta scrapped the 2008 law and replaced it with a Section 44 decree which I have not read in detail, I can't tell you if that provision was carried over but I would guess that it was.

If you did not retain a copy of your cancelled WP and the old one covers part of the three year qualification period required for application for either PR or citizenship, you have to go to the Labour Ministry and get a certified copy of the work permit. 

I note that the list of documents required for PR includes a letter from the Labour Ministry to certify your WP.  I didn't have to get this but did have for citizenship.  In that case they simply certified that my current WP was genuine and didn't refer to any previous WPs.  I assume that is the same for PR now.  I thought the amount of documentation required for PR was massive in the late 90s but it has grown exponentially since then.  Nearly all documents only had to be self-certified by the applicant in those days and there was no need for a home country police clearance or photographs of you and your wife on the marital bed waiting for the starter's signal to get down to action.  I can only assume that it will continue to get more difficult.

16 minutes ago, Smokegreynblues said:

So i got my third continuous extension of stay a few days ago, however the HR department forgot to renew my work-permit and let it expire, so now  i have applied for a new work permit , the difference in the dates between the old WP and the New WP is about 1 week, does that pose issues with the PR process?

Technically yes you could be rejected for a break in WP.  However, I think it is unlikely anyone would notice/object where the break appears in the same WP (with same employer). I believe problems are more like to occur where an applicant has changed jobs and is presenting two separate WPs which is clearly an invitation to a scrutinise for a break. All you can do is apply and see what happens. I would put my money on you being OK.

5 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Walking around BKK with 90,000 USD in a 7-11 bag, don’t want to press charges... dodgy 

I guess they are in violation of Chinese foreign exchange laws, in bring the cash out undeclared, and don't want their names publicised.  It would also be a hassle for them having to go to court hearings at short notice, if they don't live in Thailand.  In the end the driver would either be acquitted or given a derisory fine and would be allowed to carry on working as a cab driver.

Lucky that the locals were able to drive the beast away before Nong Saeng received more serious injuries or was killed.

In Thai villages the locals sneak up on dogs that they believe have either bitten their kids or killed their chickens, or just annoyed them by running after their motor bikes barking and feed them poisoned chicken, so they die in agony foaming at the mouth.  My m-i-l has lost a couple of dogs this way and she never had any idea what her dogs were supposed to have done wrong or who killed them, even living in a small community of a couple of hundred people.  

I wouldn't be surprised if these pitbull will end up the same way.  I don't agree with this horrible and illegal method of dealing with savage dogs but there is no effective legal redress against savage dogs or their owners.

The OP is absolutely right in saying that Thailand reacted to fears of mass immigration but it didn't happen recently and it was nothing to do with Western countries. It happened in the 50s when they pulled down the shutters on Chinese immigration out of fear that their open immigration policy would the new communist rulers of China to send a communist fifth column to Thailand. Up until then it was easy to get permanent residence in Thailand soon after arrival simply by demonstrating that you had a trade or profession through which you could earn a living and thousands of Chinese were migrating annually. They put a quota on permanent residence of 100 per nationality per year and increased the fees four fold. 

I don't think they are reacting to migration to Western countries or even take an interest in that.  They don't need to because since the 50s it has become much harder to become a permanent resident.  Even though the numbers of foreigners residing in the Kingdom has increased significantly in recent decades they don't feel threatened by that in the way that indigenous communities in Europe are feeling threatened by immigration because they know that the vast majority of foreign residents are on temporary visas which they can easily cancel or decline to renew, if they don't want them any more.  On the other hand the the Prayut government decided it wanted to keep better checks on foreigners and sort out the good from the bad and have better ways to track down foreign criminals. 

The flip side of this that is rarely mentioned is that they have worked off the backlog of permanent residence and citizenship applications and streamlined the processes to be what they were like about 30 years ago.  Under previous governments PR applicants were made to wait up to seven years and citizenship applicants were made to wait over 10 years and sometimes never heard anything back about their applications.  Now PR can be obtained in less than a year and citizenship in 3 years. 

It's odd that these long term overstayers with expired passports can survive without ever needing to use their passport for anything in Thailand. Obviously they never stay in hotels but might need a passport to go the bank or something and the clerk might notice the passport and visa are expired. Presumably, if they drive cars or motorbikes they do so without valid licences which risks getting caught without a licence at a roadblock and dragged off to the copshop to for ID and visa check.

15 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

I've just become aware of this new requirement, and it will affect my wife's renewal. Painful. Her Thai passport and ID is in her maiden name, but her British passport in married name.

 

Presumably if you don't have a foreign passport at the time of application, then there is no problem. If you had lost your foreign passport and not got another, it would be cancelled, and then you have no un-cancelled passport copies to provide ? 

 

Best solution is for my wife to ask for the British passport to be renewed under the maiden name - I assume they would do that ?

Technically you can revert to a former surname in a British passport by submitting the following:

• your birth certificate
• a statement signed by you saying you’ve gone back to a previous surname (for example your maiden name) ‘for all purposes’ - that is, you will not use your married or civil partnership name at all
• a document that shows you’re using your new name (for example a payslip, or a letter from your local council)
• your decree absolute or final order showing both names
• a marriage or civil partnership certificate showing both names - if you do not have it you can order a copy

Obviously the decree absolute doesn't apply, since you are not getting divorced. She is not supposed to continue using her married name at all after doing that. You would need a certified translation of her Thai birth certificate showing the maiden name.  I would suggest contacting them to find out, if there are any more requirements for naturalised Brits. It might make a difference that she had already changed her surname before she was naturalised.  If this is too difficult, it might be easier for her to change her name back to her maiden name by deed poll.

 "Losing" the Thai passport would not help much because you have disclose the details of a lost or stolen passport in box 3C.

2 hours ago, Jun2x said:

Hi bro, my boss is a Thai guy and is looking for a long range stock for his Remington 700 from overseas vendor. Is stock a regulated item in Thailand? Can he order it overseas without hassle? Lastly, can you recommend a good vendor? Thanks.

I don't own a Remington rifle myself but here are some recommendations  https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-remington-700-stocks/

https://www.rem870.com/2016/08/01/best-remington-700-stocks/

https://www.rem870.com/2013/10/25/5-best-remington-700-chassis-modular-driven-technologies-jp-accuracy-international-masterpiece-arms-kinetic-research-group/

The difference between a stock and a chassis is that a chassis is a more military style thing with a pistol grip and handguard, whereas a stock is a more conventional stock. The chassis style is more popular these days and is good for tactical rifle matches but I personally think a conventional stock is better for benchrest as a pistol grip is not needed for that but can still be used OK, if you can avoid exerting any pressure with your thumb on the pistol grip while pulling the trigger which could push the bullet slightly off course. Macmillan is normally regarded as the best for conventional stocks and Accuracy International from England for chassis. Both are quite expensive.  Unless you have the ability to also upgrade the barrel to a match barrel, I would hesitate to spend top dollar on the best stock.  The factory Remington barrels can be OK but it depends on your luck whether you get a good one or a lemon. Theoretically you can import stocks to Thailand, as they are regarded as accessories that do not need an import permit but the US sellers may need an export license for anything classified as ITAR or may just decide it is too complicated to deal with foreign customers.  I think the UK has some similar regulations too.  The catch 22 is that you would need a  Thai import license to get the US export license which is impossible because a Thai import license is not needed. On the other hand the Thai customs have been known to decide that a stock is part of a war weapon and required the recipient to get a letter from an army officer saying it is for him. 

Given the above it may be easiest to just buy what is available locally, if you can't find an overseas vendor willing to ship the stock you want. Since Remington 700 is the most popular center fire rifle in Thailand, you can find a lot of options such as stocks and chassis available for them in the Wang Burapa Gunshops and other specialist shops that sell only accessories not guns.  Without a match barrel I think the easiest option would be to buy one of those and let the shop install it, if he doesn't have gunsmithing skills.  The ATI and Magpul brands are popular in Thailand and there are others.  Most of these may not improve long range accuracy hugely, unlike Macmillan or AI, but at least they will allow you use a magazine, since the standard Remingtons don't come with a magazine well. They may also improve stability on the bench, compared to the standard Remington stocks that are designed for hunters to shoot from a standing position.  Getting a fancy benchrest rest or bipod will improve stability too.

Since Remingtons come with a rather heavy trigger for liability reasons and because it is better for hunting, a simple upgrade that can improve accuracy from the bench is a drop in after market trigger.  These need a US export permit and a Thai import license.  So it is probably best to pay through the nose to buy whatever is available here. You want to get the trigger pull down to at least 2lbs, whereas the factor trigger pull is going to be around 4-5lbs which makes long range accuracy difficult.  Upgrading the trigger is actually the first thing I would do to a new Remington 700. I have a Sako 85 in .308 that has an adjustable trigger that can be set to about 4lbs for hunting or 13oz for benchrest. I find I am a lot more accurate with the 13oz, which is basically a hair trigger, from the bench but the 4lb trigger is more useful for tactical rifle matches where a very light trigger would result in discharges before the shooter was ready, which is of course dangerous.  That is why military rifles usually have a 7-8lb trigger pull.

Another issue that mitigates against paying absolute top dollar for upgrades in Thailand is the lack of ammunition choice. Top class long range shooters around the world load their own ammo and experiment with different components to get the perfect round for their rifle. Unfortunately this is illegal in Thailand where you have to shoot whatever ammunition you can find. 

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

There are still 'manual' Thai channels and yes the Imm. officers prefer that PR holders use the Thai channel.

 

My experience; the first time I left Thailand after getting PR (20+ years back). I was in the foreigner passports line, an Imm. officer was walking along the line asking to see documents and was trying to ensure people had their documents ready.  One guy just in front of me didn't have a departure card, the Imm. Officer pulled one out of his pocket and asked 'do you have a pen?' The he said I'll come back In a minute to check your OK', and he did.

 

I showed my passport and PR book, he responded politely, in perfect English, 'please go to the Thai line and always the Thai line, because the officers on the Thai passports desks generally have more knowledge of how to process your documents', and he took me to the Thai line. I've used the Thai line ever since and never had an Imm. officer query why I was in the Thai line.

There is usually counter right next to the electronic gates for Thais who can't use the e-gates, either because they lack the intellectual capacity to do so, or because the low quality finger print recognition system fails to recognise their prints, which is what has happened to me several times. I am not sure if this counter is always marked for Thais only but it is usually positioned well away from the foreigner lanes to discourage them from trying to use it.  

In the old days before e-gates there used to be a lot of foreigners without PR trying to use the Thai counters, which got annoying, if one was in a hurry but officers often politely let them through.  I remember once being behind a big group of Indians holding Indian passports in their hands.  Since I was running out of time to catch my flight, I asked them if they had PR and warned them that, if not, they might not be accepted by the officer in the Thai queue. They just turned their backs on me and refused to acknowledge my existence.  But just as they were getting close to the end of the queue an Immigration officer answered my silent prayers and came up and booted them all out of the queue.  Halliluyah!

Mrs Arkady kept her maiden name and Miss. I advised her to keep her maiden name, which she was not particularly attached too, since we planned to stay in Thailand and I thought there was no need for her to be marked out as a farang wife wherever she went.  If we were going to live in Farangland, I would have suggested taking my name would have been easier for her than having a long difficult to pronounce foreign name. 

One thing to be aware of for Brits planning to live with Thai missus in the UK is that the common practice of keeping the Thai name for the Thai ID card and passport but taking the English name for British passport on obtaining British citizenship leads to problems.  This is because the UK will no longer issue passports to dual nationals who do not use exactly the same names for both of their nationalities.  A lot of foreigners living in the UK got caught short when they found they could not renew their British passports after this regulation came in a few years ago. In such a case it would be better for the Thai wife to take the British husband's name on marriage and avoid problems down the track when living in the UK.  Contrary to popular myth having a foreign surname makes absolutely no difference to a Thai citizen's right to own land.  I should know, as I have a completely foreign name on my Thai ID card and own a fair bit of land.

I was asked my income when I got married which surprised me, even though I didn't need the embassy certificate of freedom to marry because I was a permanent resident. No verification was asked for.  I guess that Thais are also asked the same question. Maybe it is just so that the spouse is officially informed of your income and can change their mind after hearing that. There is also an option to list all of your assets on the marriage certificate. This has implications under Thai law, if you later get divorced, since you get to keep 100% of all assets owned before marriage and listing them out on the marriage certificate might help safeguard them.  I didn't bother as it seemed too complicated to list everything and it was getting close to closing time.  

In order to apply for a work permit, the company needs to be registered for VAT also, even if it cannot make the B180,000 monthly income threshhold normally needed for VAT registration.  This creates an additional filing cost in addition to the production of audited accounts, and other accounting and administrative requirements.  You have to show the social security payment records of the Thai employees required for the company to qualify for work permit and it is likely that someone will come round and check that they really exist as well as inspect your business premises to see if it looks like a genuine business.  They may refuse your work permit, if they are not convinced. You have to pay Thai staff a minimum of B9,000 a month and B15,000 a month if they have a bachelors degree or higher.

Setting up and running a company in Thailand is a fairly serious undertaking and I would think the first year's administrative and salary costs will eat up all of your B500,000 capital.  So, unless you have a business model you are certain will generate income and profits virtually from day one, you are likely to have a total loss within a few months.  Better to keep your life savings somewhere safe.  

This was obviously a big event for the cops up there. Nawna listed the names and titles of all officers involved in the arrest and showed a photograph of six of them posing behind the little old Japanese guy who has indeed broken the law but in a victimless crime, compared to all the murders, rapes, robbery, drug dealing etc going on in Petchabun. I would have thought one junior plod from Immigration and another from the local cop shop would have sufficed leaving the senior cops free to be out catching real criminals. 

10 hours ago, keith101 said:

They learn from watching parents and older siblings in action especially in homes that have few walls but rape is a very different thing and could only come from older students and peer pressure .

They all have mobile phones and tablets or at least access to them. It is easy to download porn whcich is probably pointed out to them by older boys.  Before smart phones I remember being told that CVDs circulating in villages encouraged young teenagers to try out sex.

It's hard to imagine a woman, scorned or not, wanting to murder the child she gave life to just to hurt someone else. Not to mention that hanging would be a brutal way to murder anyone.