rumak

5 hours ago, mania said:

Thanks again for that great quote!

"nature takes care of the disease while the doctor/therapist entertains the patient". ????

Actually,  i am someone ( not that many of us)  who does not run to "go see a doctor, you idiot" .

As you have found out , many times they do NOT offer the cure .   I won't get into a long rant, but will just say I have done well and corrected many issues by research,  and mostly by following "natural remedies"  .   nuff said  

I looked,  and my previous MRI  was 6 years ago !    Only an occasional anti-inflamatory at times since then.   Now, as we know,  age brings another episode .... to the back .  I am going to give it some time to heal.   But....... about an ESI  ?    hmmm  we'll see ,   First an MRI  ,  if no improvement .

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

The nurse held my hand throughout the injection (about a minute), which was a nice touch ...

What did she do when you screamed ??    lol     seriously,  thanks for taking the time to tell me your experience .    In my many years I have been to Ram ,  Ram 2,  Bangkok hospital,  Rajawet (hip surgery) ,  Sripat,  McCormack (mri ) ,  and of course a few clinics.  

No,  i hardly ever get sick !    This is over an almost 30 year period.    I have had good and not so good experiences... nothing horrible .   But the 2 procedures i had were with very good doctors .  Dr. Suthee fixed my frozen shoulder without surgery ( called manipulation) ... something very few surgeons can do .    Broken hip also done very well .  ( no pain like when one breaks their hip in a fall !   still, i kinda dread that big needle used for ESI ... and the area involved )

16 hours ago, Teacher Robert said:

. But I will never forget that the relief I felt from the constant pain was immediate. It slowly returned after the first injection but after the second dose it never came back

good info in your post.   thanks.  (before others comment I KNOW  that different people have different results...etc etc)   .      

I am doing due diligence, and research .  I personally find anecdotal experiences very helpful .  SO thanks again to those contributing theirs .    

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

I didn't read through all the responses, so sorry if I'm repeating anything. I just had a cortisone (steroid) injection yesterday morning in my neck (upper spine) for a pinched nerve that was causing pain in my right arm; arm feels better today, but it will take a few days for the full effect (if it works) to take place. Did it at Chiang Mai Ram, which has been my regular hospital for years.

 

Since the cortisone injection typically lasts about six months and patients go back for injections (no more than twice a year), I also intend to travel to the spinal surgery center at Bumrungrad in Bangkok to see if they have a noninvasive (laser) technique to take care of the problem once and for all. Chiang Mai Ram does have a surgical solution to my specific problem, but it's invasive (they go in through the neck). The laser procedure sounds more appealing, if available.

 

Hope that helps; good luck. I'd consider traveling to Bumrungrad for a longer-term solution, if you're looking for that; steroid injections are easily done at Chiang Mai Ram.

thanks for that info ....... cost ?   and recommendation for doctor if possible  

2 hours ago, mania said:

Yes & I think mostof us  "older" folks can say the same ????

Your comments are well taken .   If i may opine :    the one variable ( and its a biggie ! )  is how each person manages and diagnoses health matters for their bodies , and minds.   Not much different than all things in life .... as i am sure you would not think that all contracters have the same capabilities or work ethics .  

I won't go into my life story ( thank god) ...... but in the matter of health,  i have had ups and downs, and yet have continued to stay active and improve my already good diet .  My recent development may actually be from trying to even further my activities by frequent swimming ,  gently and for fairly short periods of time.  I felt great .  Till,  i didn't .   Those much heralded benefits often recommended for elders probably aggravated something in my spinal condition . ( and yes, i did try to follow the "how to swim"  protocols .     Sometimes,  sh** just happens .   

As stated,  i am FIRST going to give it some time.  I am right now going for an easy stroll around a lake here in Doi Saket .   And , doing one or two exercises .  (soon to start the one you sent me)

Thanks for your help .... i will post from time to time ...... 

Note:  i am not giving up the idea of ESI ....... but that is just one idea i am checking out 

2 hours ago, thaisabai said:

Hello

Sheryl seems to have very good answers to this topic!

My case: I had an epidural injection in the lower back in the Pattaya international hospital (Dr. Danai, Orthopedist) years ago and my backpain was completely gone for about 6 years.

Now backpain is back (some days not so bad, some days painkillers needed)

Also, I can no longer walk more than 50 meters, then need to sit and rest for 2 minutes.

 

went back to see the doctor recently and he did a scan. He then said, "no epidural needed" and gave me some painkillers.

 

getting worried that I might soon no longer be able to walk.

may be Sheryl has some advice, where to see a doctor (preferably in Pattaya)

 

thaisabai

If i knew my pain was going to be gone for even 3 years i would be in the hospital tomorrow !

btw :  Nobody has said whether the actual shot was VERY painful or not too bad .  

Good luck going forward ..... maybe surgery time .    but gotta see a specialist

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

You had not mentioned weakness/numbness. In that case it may be that the space where the nerve roor exits has further narrowed so a repeat  MRI would be prudent. 

you're right.   just occurred to me to bring it up .   important

thanks Sheryl ...      ( i will still wait a bit to see how the rest and some light walking and stretching do )

31 minutes ago, ericms said:

Hi,

 

As a health care professional, I would highly recommend that you see an orthopedic MD. If neurological disorders are also present, then a neurologist should be consulted as well.

In your case, you should not rely on non-evidence-based approaches because they are very common in Thailand. The same goes for alternative or holistic (pseudoscience) approaches such as acupuncture, chiropractic, dry needling etc... because these have less evidence, and in some cases could make things even worse. Same for the content on YouTube! Stretching, strengthening or mobilisation of structure without knowledge, why and how etc. makes less sense as it can make things also worse!

Also, a physiotherapist would be a good choice, but as far as I know of some friends of mine and some clinics around bkk, they sell packages like a 30 minute diagnosis for some hundreds of baths, or they treat such issues with electro or ultrasound therapy, which can have a short time for a soft pain modulation but does not treat the main issue.

You need to get a proper physical examination and, as a consequence, a diagnostic which can lasts at least 3 to 4 sessions. I think you will hardly get such a physiotherapy quality here, as the education is not the same as outside of Thailand
Surgery should always be the last option, and do also keep in mind that many studies have already shown that spine degeneration is likely to be a part of normal aging and is NOT associated with pain (Disk bulge, protrusion, spondylosisthesis etc.)

You might consider going outside of Thailand to get a proper therapist, who is qualified to provide a professional physical examination, to understand if the conservative is the right way for you or not. A professional therapy takes a long time and is not easy, but showes in many long follow-ups the same and in some cases also the better results than surgery.

 

Ps. "He suggested to live with it", sorry but that shows everything about being professional!

 

Hope that helps you, wish you all the best.

Eric

I agree with much of what you say .... and it has been my belief ( and i have read professional statements as well)  that the number of conditions affecting the back and lower extremities is tremendous.   As are the number of  "do this stretch.... do that stretch..... don't do this stretch  etc etc) .     

Having said that .... i think there are a very few skilled doctors/ surgeons available .  ( remember, even in US or elsewhere the quality of diagnosing and surgery varies greatly) .   I  had a successful "manipulation"  for a frozen shoulder here in Chiangmai by a renowned ( now retired) surgeon .

Impressive .    Also had a broken hip surgery , titanium rod ,  which has turned out well.  I was walking distance in about 6 months....  A recent xray shows that all is excellent , now 3 years later.

BUT.... I did pray a bit  haha  .  And i am not religious.   

This back thing is not simple,  though many have the usual go see a doctor answer.  I believe as you do that just any doctor will not help,  and could in fact make mistakes .   I have past experience with seeing 3 orthopedic doctors with only the last one making a correct diagnosis. (not the back issue)

Even the MRI i had done , which is not cheap,  was not interpreted well by 2 doctors.... but the 3rd one showed his expertise by comparison.

to be continued............ 

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Tight hamstrings will in themselves cause back ache. So will tightness in other muscles and tendons, and your lack of flexibilty suggests this is your problem. 

 

The way you describe your back issues sound much more like a problem due to issues with muscles than spine per se.

 

I suggest you see a good physiotherapust to develop a personalized program of stretches and exercises. 

but......... before, for many years now,  when my back hurt I did not have pain or weakness in my

legs , hips, knees (  varies in location , and symptom)   Also slight numbness in toes at times. 

Seems like sciatica (which i did not have before) .     

I know i say this often ( and you have too) ....... its finding a GOOD one that is the secret.  I am starting some stretching and will give it a week to see what happens .  Dr, Chanagan about 3 years ago looked at my MRI and Xray and did not find anything drastic , just some age related narrowing.

Yes,  a new MRI  might be in order.  Pretty sure it is nerve related from lower back .

I also agree that tight muscles are a problem ..... very difficult for me to loosen those hamstrings. and bending over is also very limited.     I'll let y'all know what happens.  First a bit of rest and stretching 

15 hours ago, mania said:

Being a retired Gen Contractor I have had decades of back problems.

Like you as I got older they got worse to a point where a few times I was fully locked.

When that happened it would take 6-8 weeks to get better....slowly

 

But a few years ago I found in my case my work & single type of exercises were actually leaving areas even tighter so have found some great stretches that helped & also more full body exercises to help not being so one dimensional & causing tightness elsewhere

 

In my case I found the Quadratus Lumborum was a culprit

The stretches this lady shows in her Pilates video helps a lot

Quadratus Lumborum Pain and Tightness Program Fix!

 

Another one that really helped the most was the stretch shown on this video at 3:24

Although you should check the whole video & also search lower back pain in all his videos!

 Jeff Cavaliere is very knowledgeable

 

Good Luck!

thank you .   literally hundreds of videos on youtube ( many contradicting what others say) ...

I have looked at the one you sent and will give it a try .   My one concern with the QL demonstrations are they do not take into account the flexibility of individuals.  I will let you know how i do  ????      I have always been fit and fairly strong...... but NOT flexible .   extremely tight hamstrings  .        Also, the problem with videos is again:   there are such an immense amount of variables/degrees/ causes/ and ages involved.   ( yes, that is why an "expert"  is needed ) 

But,,,,,,  there are a lot of problems when someone , like millions do,  gets the wrong diagnosis.

Ultimately < IMO ,  the patient must be capable of making the right "educated"  decisions .

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Have you had an MRI and has a spine specialist recommended this? It is not a simple "one size fits all" treatment for back pain. It will help only with pain from certain causes and the injection has to be targeted to the specific part of the spine responsible.  Which in turn means  an experienced spine specialist has reviewed an MRI and identified the likly source of the problem. 

 

I had it done. Twice actually --  once in lower spine once in cervical spine. The one in the lower spine worked for only a few weeks so I went on to have surgery (successful).  Though I  know people who have gotten relief for 6 months or more and do  this regularly as an alternative to surgery.

 

The one I had in the cervical spine on the other hand gave complete relief, over a year already (knock on wood!). That was not only an epidural but also a facet joint injection. I insisted on both to cover all vases as cause of the pain was a bit  uncertain.

 

I have had an MRI .... but a couple of years ago .  At that time my pain  (lower back) would come and go , and I did see a specialist here in CM .  He suggested to live with it ( being that it was not at a serious stage) ,  with occasional use of anti-inflamatories.  As time passes, and maybe you also know from personal experience,  there can come a time when the pain or discomfort becomes a problem that needs addressing.   Probably soon .

Of course if i were to get the ESI  it would be with a specialist ,  and I am seeking some personal cases such as yours to inform myself first .  The fact that you needed surgery on the lower back, but also injections in the cervical spine is informative .   My pain is mostly lower back,  but i am now getting more pain in upper regions at times ( and my neck ).  Reading about the facet joints also aroused my suspicions that I could be having problems associated with that . 

Surgery is something many people want to avoid (myself included) ..... as a surgery gone wrong is not unheard of .  That is why my first choice would be to try ESI (as you did) .   The second area you did which has worked sounds encouraging,   and thanks for the info about the facet joints . Gives me some good info for when i go to the specialist . 

Out of curiosity ,  which hospital did you use in BKK .   Also,  doesn't that doctor , or you,  have a recommendation for CM ?   Thank you for your posting ...       rumak

Has anyone had one of these injections to ease lower back pain ?

If someone in Chiangmai or Lamphun had one ,  please tell me where.

I will not be going to BKK to do one ...... but still if someone has experience with the  ESI  injection I would be interested to hear.

I have had lower back problem on and off for ten years....not that bad .   and have been to doctors and mri,  etc.

now looking into this option as things are getting a bit worse with age

not worth my time ...........

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

J Peterson is awesome to listen to. If at times perhaps I don't agree with everything he says, it's so interesting to hear his perspective.

 

The naysayers are just jealous of his verbage ability. 

generally, the naysayers have to look up the word "verbage" .     but, cmon,  they're too lazy to do that . 

16 hours ago, VBF said:

Ahhh..... religion - the greatest conspiracy theory of them all.

be careful .   the boogeyman might come get you .  

3 hours ago, ThaiLawOnline said:

Thank you Rumak to make me learn these great lessons of life.

You certainly a not a master of the English language , if that sentence is any indication.  Also, a native speaker would (hopefully)  understand that my short post was a lighthearted tongue-in-cheek post, and certainly NOT a dig at you .

Sorry,  i do not have any more time to explain that..... so try to get it. 

And,  have a great day !

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

My parents teached me to be polite against the older generation.

Thank you  young man .   Often times there are good reasons we are grumpy and bitter . 

But ......... like any age,  some are just &&&&&&&&S  !

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Excellent ????

i had to get my glasses ....... to see which finger that was pointing upwards  ????

On 9/15/2023 at 12:35 PM, spidermike007 said:

This was a wise decision. So far, Pita has shown us nothing but integrity and that is in very short supply here, when it comes to politics. They need to oppose the highly toxic army and the sold out PT, which likely lost alot of it's remaining goodwill by jumping into bed with the reptiles. 

Thailand mourns. For now, it's future has been stolen once again by the army thieves and goons. The army is no doubt the enemy of the people, and so is the new stooge PM. The recent election shows that the people are both sick of being led by highly ignorant dinosaurs, with no interest in progress, and are interested in smart, young folks, who are serious, accomplished, capable of change, and interested in insuring that Thailand has a good future. Pita is exactly what this nation needs, at this point in time. However, he was too progressive, and the goons had to stop him, in the name of regression.

After all, this is a man who interrupted his studies at MIT, during an MBA program at Sloan to rescue his father's rice bran oil business, Agrifood, after this fathers death. He was successful, and is paying down the 100 million baht his father borrowed to start the company. This is a serious man. Very unlike the failures before him. He then went back and finished his MBA, at one of the top business schools on the planet. He is an accomplished man, unlike the army goons, who are only good at bossing young men around. Nothing else. Nada. Zero. Nunca.
 

if we had some nice quiet time.... with some johnny walker..... i would tell you some conspiracy theories ( that maybe you haven't heard) .     one being why anyone in power , around the world,  is NOT  chosen by "the people" .

it is quite a sad story , though,  and of course .... complete nonsense backed only by sources that are fact checked and found spreading misinformation.  Just like .............  oops,  can't say that either.

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

Great minds comes with weakness to, and he for sure have his demons to. 

 

Check out what he have been through for his beliefs and opinions as well well documented statistically researches when it comes to human relations, politics, belief systems and social behaviors and the psychology involved.

 

He also had physically health challenges as well mentally severe depression since he was 13 and also abuse of benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome.

 

He is one of the big thinkers who dare to say what he believe is right, and also have some science backed with his views. 

 

How he see religion, is not that controversial either and more pragmatic in my opinion. 

 

Have to remember Peterson also a person who gets older, with everything that involves. I sure many here have noticed a change emmotionally the older you get.

 

Some is more angry, some more easily emmotionally touched, and some both.

 

What about you? Emmotionally strong as ever?

 

 

 

 

my spelllllling has gotttten betttter .    but i sttttuttter more.

buy the best tape ( instead of save 20 baht) .........  don't overtighten 

if pvc connecting to metal pipe...... use the pvc with copper inside 

8 minutes ago, NextG said:

Was Yinn the Australian to whom transam refers?

not a subject they want brought up here ..... you will have to ask him

ahhhh the good ole days ........

32 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

Absolutely it did.... But I had no choice... I was paying 18k a month for a caregiver.. I had the accident in the countryside of Chiang Mai.. Not where I live now. Soooo... In my next life.. I'll be more careful on wet marble steps in bare feet. 

I broke my hip playing basketball .... at 70 !    Next life :  play with people smaller and older than me

49 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

Thanks for sharing your story. 

 

Yes.. Slow but surely with this. Being a cowboy could take me back to zero... Its happened to people who had plates and screws... 

 

I just ordered 5lbs of protein powder... Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein Gold Standard 5LB - 2.600 baht... 

I just reread yours.... and you are ONLY 6 months post op !    Patience, young man .   If you do not push it i believe you will get back to "normal"  ,  little by little .  It actually took me almost 2 years before i was getting around without ever thinking of my injury .   ( i think being in a wheelchair for 3 months did slow you down a bit .)

Try to stand straight and move slow .   I do eat meat and lots of avocados .... protein is good.  BUT, i also read an opinion that TOO MUCH  protein can not be good ( try to read about that .  I will go back myself to try to find it) .    

Keep going.   Six months is nothing with these major injuries ..... but healthy people get through it. 

edit :  I also eat 2 good sized fresh eggs every morning ....with a bit of beef or homemade bacon .   Plenty of protein  ????