Genmai

Last month I applied for a business visa extension at CM. The week before that I flew in from overseas and spent 2 nights in BKK with my gf at her family's house before going on to CM. When in BKK I did not submit a TM30 because the landlord is my FIL who is a frail elderly man and I'm not about to drag him across town to CW. Then flew to CM, off to CM immigration, did my TM30 there and then went for visa extension with my papers stack (keeps growing every year despite us trying to keep up with their rules and not breaking any laws). 

The staff looked through the stack and asked lots of stupid questions one of which was this:

"Where your TM30 from Bangkok? Your landing stamp in Bangkok on this day, you apply for TM30 in Chiang Mai 4 days later which means you stayed Bangkok overnight. Where's the old TM30?"

After a lot of back and forth and trying hard to keep my composure they eventually refused to accept my documents. A bunch of extra things needed they said. One of which was a letter explaining why I did not apply for a TM30 in Bangkok, together with copies of my flights from overseas into BKK and domestic flight from BKK into CM. Then they will think about it.

This is after years of trying to run a business and desperately jumping through their hoops. Now I'm sitting and waiting for their answer hoping that after literally thousands of sheets of signed documents the thing that doesn't kill it all is one instance of this insane TM30 crap.

Regardless of whether their response is positive this year I'm making my exit plans. Simply too much bs to deal with.

8 minutes ago, SteveK said:

I'm saying that they are seen as a cancer by governments such as Thailand's, hence all the effort to force them out.

Um, no, literally nobody is suggesting that except for you. I'm a young guy here and the crackdowns affect me too as they spill over to all visa types. But we know that your comment is just about projecting some twisted hateful attitudes.

On 6/9/2019 at 11:20 AM, connda said:

I do not recommend either retiring in Thailand or worse, marrying a Thai national for numerous reasons:

Immigration is now moving the goalposts on short notice with increasing regularity.  We all simply wait for the next shoe to drop.

No consistency in the application of immigration law between immigration offices if not between individual immigration officers, many who seem to have never read the current police orders which are published online.  They make their own rules and there is nothing you can do - you have no recourse other than to comply or leave.  
No sense of any humanitarianism at all as we recently watched a 77 year old Alzheimer's patient forced out of the country because she could no longer meet the newly changed Retirement Visa rules - but worse imho was that she has a serious Medical Condition - Alzheimer's...The Long Goodbye - and was a resident in a Thai Medical Facility for Alzheimer's patients, and yet this heartless government could not extend her a Medical Visa for her Medical Condition and instead insisted on her having a retirement visa instead.  The family could not afford the cost of care and the cost of the new Retirement Visa regulations implemented March 1 - so the elderly invalid with a terminal Medical Condition was shown the door.  It sheer lunacy.  Keep that in mind long-stay expats when you become old and disabled with medical problems as you'll be shown the door too in your hour of need.  

Thailand has the one of the most dangerous road systems in the world and recently was The Most Dangerous Roads in the World #1.  Traffic enforcement of moving violations is non-existance, therefore the roads are simply anarchy.  Drivers are ill trained and a large percentage are extremely aggressive.  This leads to a high number of daily deaths (average about 60/day) and accidents.
Northern Thailand is choked by PM 2.5 particulate that is dangerous to human health as evidenced by the North having exceedingly high lung disease rates.  This choking smoke lasted 4 months this year or 1/3 of a year from February though the month of May.  And at times this year the North had The Most Dangerous Air Quality in the World #1.
We constantly see Thai-on-foreigner violence.  The most recent telling incidents being a taxi driver kidnapping two Korean tourists, robbing and beating them with the excuse that they asked him to turn on his meter.  And the latest in absurdity was the recent plea from Phuket police officials to taxi drivers asking them not the "Cheat" or "Beat" tourists - you have got to be kidding!  "Pretty please - don't Beat The Tourist as it's bad for our image.  Amazing!
Xenophobia in this country is institutionalize. 
For those marrying a Thai and raising a family, if you are a male you'll have no path to permanent residency and given the winds of fate Thai Immigration could break up your family.  If your wife dies you'll need to get a different visa.  If you can not, you get separated from your family unless you are supporting a minor child.  But if your kids have grown, regardless of the sacrifice you placed in providing for and supporting your extended family for years - you'll be shown the door. No compassion; no humanitarianism.  
Live in the beach areas and they are a polluted, plastic stewn mess.
You'll always be an outsider, and outsiders are subject to two-tiered pricing.  
If you moved to Thailand because you are Buddhist, welcome to the new Buddhism where you, my good foreign Buddhist, will be charged money to enter their Thai Buddhist Temples to worship!  No longer do you make an offering, you if you wish to worship you'll be charged at the door for the privilege to worship with Thai Buddhists who pay nothing.  Not all temples, but its becoming a disturbing trends.
Volunteer to help Thailand, such as teaching school children English for free, do so at your own risk - it can land you in jail for being a philanthropist and deported.
As a foreigners you simply are considered a potential criminal.  As such you movements must be monitored literally on a 24 hour basis.  Not constantly reporting your whereabouts is a criminal offense, which will simply prove Immigration's premise that all foreigners are potential criminals.  
And the bottom line: You are considered a walking ATM.  If your money runs below some government threshold, even for a short period of time - you're out, and if you don't get out quick enough than you are a criminal overstayer and its jail then deportation for you.  So therefore there is no security or stability in creating a life in Thailand.  You are here on the whim of a government who neither trusts you nor particularly wants you to stay.  Just leave your money - and get out.

If you like living that Machiavellian existence - fine!  Some people are masochists.  But there are better places to retire.  I suggest looking elsewhere.  Had I not married 11 years ago, I would not now be here.  And if this Immigration dog-and-pony show get much more stupid - I'm leaving.  

So you have my take - I in no way recommend staying here other than for a short visit, and even at that there are much better places in this world to vacation.
 

A great post with all valid points that mirror my experiences here.

I want to mention something that nobody has yet talked about and that is the insane ordeal of starting a business, obtaining a work visa and employing Thai staff. I've been asked before about the viability of doing this by retirees who cannot meet immigration's new demands - essentially my answer is "don't do it". It might also be useful information for those considering opening up a company in Thailand, but basically the entire process is a very expensive nightmare and is compounded by all of the points mentioned by @connda at every step. Idiotic behavior masked as national character traits come into play heavily here.

Just as an example - from the moment of incorporating my Thai company to the moment I was finally issued a work permit the time spent was almost 12 months. Even for something simple like company registration my lawyer had to compile multiple copies of my documents and bring a change of clothes in his car for a potential multi-day trip. Why? Because he had to drive around different districts until he found an office where the officials didn’t make up rules and regulations as they liked. Just as with immigration every office had their own interpretation of what the rules meant to them.

For the work visa it was equally stupid and inept as for all other visas. The immigration office in CM could only process 5-7 business applicants per day so it took us many tries to even manage a queue card. Sometimes we would be notified that immigration made a spelling mistake on their own form so the form had been reprinted, but now it has a new number and so must be resubmitted. Obviously not our fault. Back again to waiting at 5am to get a queue to submit a new paper at 2pm. Stone age.

Then there are all the useless complications of having to justify to the Thai government why you should be employed by your company which you sponsored and run... Oh, did I say your company? I forgot - you don't really own it. Just the 49% of it. Don't forget your 4 Thai staff! You need 4 for every foreigner employed, and your partner cannot be one of the 4 - has to be other people. Also don't forget your government mandated minimum wage for foreigner! 50,000 baht - almost five times that of what most Thais make! Also - make sure no one catches you doing forbidden labor, like carrying a crate of potatoes in your own restaurant, accepting customers' money in your own cafe, or giving a ride to someone and accepting a few hundred baht!

And oh my Buddha - the Thai staff... I don't want to say we treated them like gold but in the beginning we were extremely flexible with their schedule, provided watercolors and paper for their kids when they brought them to work, didn't scold them for making the same mistake 10 times in a row, made them fruit smoothies on hot days, took them out to lunch a few times a month, etc. Then after we compiled our mountain of papers and were about to lodge my application they all ganged up together and said "You're going to pay us more money or we all leave now and you can't get your visa! You need 4 staff!". We had no choice then. The compromise was that the work quality would improve. When it didn't and the same mistakes kept happening we scolded them. The next day everybody quit - and stole our furniture from the office!

On the topic of Thais quitting - every single worker I've employed here who decided to quit did so at the drop of a hat without honoring the standard employment agreement that states a 30 day notice must be provided so we actually have time to look for a new person since there are ongoing orders, projects, etc. Not a single person followed this protocol. Don't like work after 6 months? Gone without a trace, don't pick up phone, no notice, nothing. Although we're a tiny company we've had no choice but to install a time-card machine because staff continually abused our system by coming late/leaving early/way longer lunch breaks. Also we've had to pay for security camera installation because stock has been going missing and nobody owns up. In contrast - we've never cut a single baht out of their salary, always pay their social security and salary on time every time, don't ask anything unreasonable of them.

Anyway, that's my perspective coming from the angle of running a business here.

But ultimately what frustrates me the most isn't necessarily things like moronic hurdles and hiccups, lazy attitudes, two-faced facetious nature, murderous driving, produce laced with pesticides, increasingly hostile attitudes to foreigners, widespread lack of anything resembling service, poor quality in just about everything, worsening regulations, rising prices on par with Europe, millions of rabid stray dogs which can't be culled because "muh Buddhism", insane air pollution levels, noise, trash everywhere, corrupt police, lack of responsibility, etc etc. No, what REALLY gets to me is the Thais' total absence of any desire to improve the situation. You simply can't talk sense into them and somehow you're always the bad guy for bringing up the problem! To me there is a perversion of Buddhist values at play here that equates "Not doing harm" with "Lets not hurt peoples' feelings by telling them truthful things because we're all 5 years old and life should be sanuk happy happy fun time - you tink too much!".

Whatever this mystical "Land of Smiles" was that people talk about could have existed long before I came here (4 years). But from my viewpoint the Thai brand of compassion and tolerance means you should be compassionate and tolerant towards irresponsible behavior of morons. This is the biggest problem and will continue to stop any attempts at improvement.

So basically my answer to the survey's question is a firm NO for reasons that are more cultural rather than economic. Additionally I believe that all the issues being mentioned affect everybody - not just retirees, but younger digital nomad types and visitors in general also.