Genmai

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

You should feel ashamed!

Why?

28 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Didn't take long, look at post #5.

You're allowed to respond to people's posts directly. Any disagreements with the content of what I wrote?

 

The timing of this follows the exact format of angelic wouldn't-hurt-a-fly taxi driver stories. If you go to click on the article and try searching for "Spotlight Thailand" on the TNN page (the name of the racist rock slinging Thai group) you get no results. It's all about face, sorry.

24 minutes ago, 4evermaat said:

We can criticize the gov't and even some locals for some of the cultural differences.

 

How about a certain FB page with 600,000 followers calling for Phuket locals to gather up slingshots and shoot rocks at whitey's head? Can we criticize that? Or how about the fact that that page isn't on Thai news but this feelgood "All-Thais-Are-Angels" story is?

 

A genuine good-hearted gesture? Sure, if it's real. But you can't deny this stinks of a damage control PR campaign. C'mon, think of the bigger picture here. A 600,000 strong FB Phuket-based page of racists getting some public attention, and then suddenly- boom - like clockwork, a feel-good article about the kindness of Phuket people? No. It's no different to stories of honest taxi drivers turning in bags of diamonds and cash that get published like clockwork after another story of condemnation.

 

Edit: I'll also add that the ThaiVisa article about that FB page in question is no longer available. Make of that what you will!

1 hour ago, Liverpoolfan said:

anyone managing to stay positive despite all the obvious signs of catastrophe on the horizon?

 

Absolutely. Now that I'm stuck indoors my life and mental state has overall gotten much better.

 

The #1 best thing is that I don't have to interact with Thais anymore. That's a massive headache and source of stress gone right there. Now that I no longer have to explain basic concepts, bang my head against the wall and complain about everything that's wrong I'm finally enjoying my life here. Order stuff online, Skype my friends/family, annoy my girlfriend and play with the neighborhood cats in my yard. Amazing. This must be hints of "the good life" that expat retirees talk about. 

 

The second best thing is that I don't have to feel guilty about staying in the house all day doing whatever the hell I want. PC loaded up with games I've been meaning to get through (RPG classics), stacks of books, a bunch of plants sprouting for the garden, plenty of time to cook the meals I want to, Udemy courses online, wow holy **** this quarantine isn't nearly going to be long enough for me to get through all the stuff I want.

 

The worst thing is not being able to sweat it out at the gym so my gains are quickly disappearing. And dreading the upcoming immigration office trip. That's about it. Alcohol is a no-no for me since overdoing it last year and wrecking my stomach, so I'm forced to stick to water/tea/frozen banana smoothies. If I was capable of drinking now I'd be blasted everyday for sure, and that wouldn't be good or sustainable for serotonin levels. CBD/THC oil would be another matter entirely but I haven't figured out how to get a prescription for that here...

 

Another thing to consider is that we're far better off than our friends/family back home. I always had this idea that 3rd world countries are far better places to ride out societal/infrastructural breakdown events simply because people are already used to the idea of living in dysfunctional societies. It's why despite largely disliking everyday living in Thailand I firmly chose to remain here during this crisis. People back in farang-land cannot imagine their international supply lines of frozen cheeseburgers coming to a halt and pharmacies being empty. Too many people who have grown up in a safe & functional environment who cannot conceive of how their world would look if nothing worked. Yes, here it's entirely possible we'll get the occasional farang being slingshotted at by racists. But the far more likely worst-case scenario back home is widespread looting and crime amidst a sea of lost people in disbelief which is typical of developed nations experiencing a period of breakdown. Here we'll still have an overabundance of locally grown food no matter what. Since Thais are so savvy at everything online it's super easy to arrange groceries and supply deliveries through Line and FB. 

 

But ultimately you're right. Nothing matters. Nothing is real.

 

Except pain.

 

Even the most staunch nihilist/existentialist under a high enough level of pain will admit that pain is real, and thus at the very very least some meaning can be derived through moving away from a state of pain and into a more "optimal" state of existence. How you do that and what "optimal" means is entirely up to you and that freedom of being able to decide is one of the highlights of being human.

 

But maybe I'm saying this because I'm the kind of farang who gets thrown into a week-long depressive episode after too many logical reasoning sessions with Somchai. And it takes me a period of isolation from everybody to get out of that depressive episode. You might be the complete opposite. In that case you'd benefit from more socialization. Fire up a few accounts on dating/penpal/language learning apps. If you're not in total lockdown walk around and force yourself to chat with others. And stop checking ThaiVisa so often, it's not good for mental health.

 

 

And this (together with previous reports of sleeping on concrete floors in tents with no AC and 1000s of mozzies) is why any Thai will do whatever they can to weasel out and avoid being stuck in these disorganized hellhole "quarantines".

 

What a national disgrace. I remember when this was still starting officials were coming out and saying "rah rah rah, Thailand scores so highly on pandemic prevention list! all ok here, sure." Bunch of hot air that was. There were enough signs coming out of China way back in January that this was going to be a serious problem. This late into the game this kind of bs shouldn't be happening. 

 

Contrast this with online reports of how quarantine looks like for foreign arrivals in Korea. You get bused straight from Incheon to a nearby medical facility. Private room, own bed, shower, toilet, food provided for you. You stay there for 24 hours. After this you get your covid19 test results. If positive they keep you. If negative you download an app on your phone to report your condition daily. They give you a 14 day care package in case you get sick - water, basic supplies, food, etc - and instruct you to go on to the city by taxi. THAT'S how you inspire confidence in a government, keep everything mostly running and maintain new infections at a manageable number at a time when most other countries are ****ing their pants. NOT cold chicken tendies and 3 to a room. Bad enough as a Thai. Wouldn't want to be a farang flying into this den of thieves and liars at this time..

Some of you might remember when nearly 2 months ago in late January I posted this thread where I shared my experience of flying into Suvarnabhumi airport and encountering what I could only describe as total negligence and apathy on behalf of the staff and planners to curtail the virus spread. Around that time the Nation had posted a feel-good article about how busy and diligent officials were at implementing several measures to "prevent spread of Wuhan virus". My experience arriving had shown that, as always, this was just a bunch of face saving lip service <deleted> and in reality not much was being done. If anyone wants to read in detail the thread is still up but basically: 

 

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Nobody cleaned anything. One person had gloves. Masks were useless and uselessly worn. Nobody was encouraged to clean their hands. Sneezy snotty sick people were in the queue with everybody.

 

In short, there's not a chance in hell they are going to contain this thing. I advise everyone to plan accordingly.

 

All I did was provide my account of how NONE of the measures to contain the virus from the article were in effect and how staff were seemingly oblivious to what the actual measures were. 

 

At no point did I comment on the virulence/severity of the virus, on my own level of preparedness or even on the efficacy of the measures proposed.

 

The response was interesting. A small handful of posters agreed and saw the point I was making (aside from calling the officials out on their BS) - that no matter how well WE may prepare (hand gel, etc) there are going to be thousands of others who will NOT, and the job of those who manage public spaces in an effort to contain infectious diseases is to ensure that the potentially destructive actions of those who do NOT prepare are mitigated through proper provision and management of public spaces. Clearly if airport officials had actually bothered to carry out the measures they claimed to be implementing in the Nation article (hourly cleanups, wearing masks and gloves, disinfectant, separating sick people, etc) we would all likely be in a much better position now. 

 

The vast majority of posters wanted me to die in a fire. The bulk of the response to what I said was condemnation. I was called everything under the sun from an arrogant know-it-all whiney farang to a paranoid fear mongering nanny state lover, with a healthy sprinkling of "It's Just The Flu, Bro". Many people wished that I had been blacklisted and turned away. One courteous poster even remarked:

 

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It's unforgivable to think people like the OP exist...

 

Another had this foreboding tidbit to say:

 

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My jokey post about barricading yourself in your hotel room would seem to be the logical approach if he has the level of fear he expressed in his OP and subsequent follow ups. 

 

A jokey post indeed! Hey, guess what - it's March and many of us are being FORCED to barricade ourselves wherever we can, and even worse those who don't barricade themselves are being fined! Well who woulda thunk it eh? 

 

Another suggested some fashionable attire for a raving lunatic such as myself:

 

 

In the end I gave up on trying to talk sense and had this to say:

 

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As far as my own personal health and well-being goes I'm not in the least bit concerned for myself. So no, fear is not the guiding emotion here. The only fear I have is that many of you might have to eat your words at some point in the future.

 

So here we are 2 months in the future. The world is a very different place now. Not a single person knows what it will look like 2 months from now. In this country panic buying has already set in and full national lockdown seems imminent. At the same time a very helpful engineer-turned-health minister seems hellbent on peddling a dangerous xenophobic narrative that WE are the cause of the problem.

 

And of course the lies and failures to do anything properly keep coming. As a side note, I actually flew from Bangkok into Chiang Mai recently after cases started to erupt in the capital. This news article had just been published where it stated:

 

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Chiang Mai Airport director Nattawut Ta-inta said local and foreign passengers arriving at the airport are being screened and required to fill in certain information on a form as part of the measures to prevent Covid-19 from spreading in the city.

 

I bet you're all curious what those "measures" were. Here you go:

 

 

That's the measures. A leaflet handed out at the exit after you grab your luggage and head to the taxis. No "filling in of certain information on a form" as they claimed, no nothing. A piece of paper that politely asks you to report yourself in to the village community leader. Who in the hell is going to do this? Nobody! They could have done this so much better. They could have easily routed all Bangkok arrivals such as myself through to international where an officer would have collected some paper with a name and address, so people would at least have the impression that somebody COULD check on them. Instead they just let God knows how many possibly infected people fly from BKK to all over the country without any oversight. Am I a responsible citizen who will observe the 14 day quarantine because I flew in from Bangkok? Yes. How many people on that plane are likely to do this? Hardly any. Are there any repercussions if I break quarantine? None whatsoever.

 

 

In regards to my thread, one thing I found particularly telling was that none of the people who were slagging me off could answer a simple question which I put forward (twice) -

 

 

Quote

Let me ask you all just one thing. Do you have a wife/kids/SO/girlfriend here? Because I'd bet that if you do and they happened to catch this virus then you would all change your tune pretty quickly. You might wish that the officials and airport staff had actually done something to prevent the situation from escalating instead of lying to everyone like they always do. You might even wish that there would have been more people making a fuss about how nothing was done to prevent the spread and fewer people who told the "arrogant know-it-all Thai-bashing naysayers" to get a grip and leave if they didn't like it.

 

 

As things start heating up it seems like this is an appropriate time to revisit this question. So again, to all the people who roasted me for bringing up airport officials' hypocrisy - Do you have a wife/children/SO/girlfriend/family here? Would you change your tune if they got sick with this thing, yes or no?   

 

@Letseng @ujayujay @galenjones @madmen @Nanaplaza666 @ThaiBunny @Matzzon @MaxiMaxi @WinnieTheKhwai @buick @thaibeachlovers @faraday @NanLaew @mike787 @bwpage3 @shy coconut @URMySunshine

 

Well?

11 minutes ago, finy said:

I was tested for virus at train station and I’m fine.

Get your head out of your ass and in with the program. No, you were NOT tested for the virus. You had an infrared thermometer of questionable utility pointed at your forehead. Means absolutely **** all. I think you're beyond help but please for the sake of others STAY INDOORS.

"All throughout the investigation, Capt Suporn, who was transferred to Sakoo Police Station near Phuket International Airport on Aug 1 last year, repeatedly gave Marut’s family name as Puangsombat.

On finally confirming Marut’s correct family name, in October last year, Capt Suporn told The Phuket News, “I am sorry. I confused the wrong family name with another case.” (See story here.)

Without being provided correct family name, the Phuket Provincial Court and the Phuket Public Prosecutor’s Office both denied any knowledge of the case."

 

"All throughout the police investigation and the trial Marut was allowed to continue working as a taxi driver, picking up and dropping off tourists at Phuket International Airport."

 

"In total, Marut spent 28 days behind bars."

 

The whole thing reads like a twisted comedy from some inter-dimensional circus.

22 hours ago, shy coconut said:

I reckon you're just upset because the IO stamped you in without any extra questions,

hoping you could report about the awful treatment you received.

 

And I could equally reckon you're a Thai apologist who in his quest to distance himself from the self perceived guilt of a Western heritage takes great pleasure in making unsubstantiated character attacks at any other farang who take the slightest issue with any aspect of this country. You can reckon whatever you like mate, doesn't make a difference to me. It's probably much the same to you. What matters is the truth. Why don't you pop down to Swampy arrivals yourself and let us know your observations?

 

21 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

I would expect you would NOT count on anyone else for your own protections?

 

20 hours ago, mike787 said:

I am surprised the OP didn't buy hand sanitizer, or jsut simply realize he could go to the nearest washroom and was his hands. 

 

18 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In the meantime, I will carry on doing what has served me well these last 3 score and 3 years on the planet and pay attention and look after myself.

 

18 hours ago, faraday said:

Personal responsibility.

 

18 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to understand why you even flew at all if you feel that way. Soooooo, you sat on in an aluminium tube for several hours surrounded by potentially infected people, breathing in recycled air that contains whatever viruses other people on the plane had, then you complain because there wasn't any hand sanitiser at immigration!

 

14 hours ago, buick said:

i always carry hand gel and face masks when i travel.  a whole lot of other stuff to !

 

13 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Jesus Christ what a knob.  Just stay home then ok?

 

12 hours ago, MaxiMaxi said:

Knowing about the disinfecting needs, why didn't you bring your own disinfecting gel or alcohol or disinfecting tissue and do it step by step yourself when needed....

 

11 hours ago, Matzzon said:

My response to that would be that you are probably very lucky that they did not contain you with your terrible attitude.

 

9 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

How many door handles - the taxi, his hotel room to name but two - will he be touching in the hour after he arrives? Get a grip

 

7 hours ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

IF YOU GO TO AN AIRPORT YOU EXPECT THERE TO BE SOMEBODY TO CHECK YOUR PASSPORT THAT'S IT

 

6 hours ago, madmen said:

Signs of compulsive obsession from OP.. Get help 

 

6 hours ago, galenjones said:

Take care for yourself, don't blame others.

 

2 hours ago, ujayujay said:

Hysteric behaviour????????????

 

59 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Btw, after I touched this "gross" finger printing device  when leaving Bkk I got a disinfectant  tissue out and wiped my hands. Why didn't you carry your own?

 

For all you know I could have walked through with a respirator and gloves covered head to toe in diesel with my own pen etc etc. You're obviously missing the point I'm making here. All of us could take all of the precautions necessary. But it wouldn't make a damn difference if the officials in charge of public spaces do everything they can to further facilitate the spread of the virus instead of putting 2 brain cells together. For every one of us who comes prepared there are thousands of Chinese and other travelers who don't. That's just the simple truth whether you like it or not. Further transmissions could be reduced if airport staff actually did what they claimed in the article.

 

@Letseng @ujayujay @galenjones @madmen @Nanaplaza666 @ThaiBunny @Matzzon @MaxiMaxi @WinnieTheKhwai @buick @thaibeachlovers @faraday @NanLaew @mike787 @bwpage3 @shy coconut

 

Let me ask you all just one thing. Do you have a wife/kids/SO/girlfriend here? Because I'd bet that if you do and they happened to catch this virus then you would all change your tune pretty quickly. You might wish that the officials and airport staff had actually done something to prevent the situation from escalating instead of lying to everyone like they always do. You might even wish that there would have been more people making a fuss about how nothing was done to prevent the spread and fewer people who told the "arrogant know-it-all Thai-bashing naysayers" to get a grip and leave if they didn't like it.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, emptypockets said:

I wonder when he started talking slowly to the IO if he also raised his voice. That seems to be the MO for the uneducated foreigner.

Actually the mark of an uneducated individual is attacking someone's character when one can't or won't address the content of their statement, which is something that seems to be happening quite a lot in this thread.

 

7 hours ago, CLW said:

Moreover, if you as a foreigner make a fuss about anything that you see wrong, they shrug their shoulders and roll eyes.

As we can clearly see it's not just Thais - many foreign expats here seem to be more than willing to adopt the same attitude you've described.

 

 

22 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

You mean.....you mean.... the airport is a hospital?

 

 Finally, yes exactly, someone gets it. The airport is a hospital. Thank you.

7 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

Deary me, if you are so superior and paranoid, perhaps you should learn the Thai word

for disenfectant instead of making yourself look a numpty repeating a word to a guy

whose job is to check that you are allowed to enter the country.

 

Did you have some kind of drone or CCTV to be able to see into all of the booths

from behind the lines?

 

We were all told by the media and the PM that certain measures were being taken to ensure the control of this virus. What I’m doing is presenting my account of how all of that is false. You want to explain to me how I’m in the wrong for doing that?

 

And no, according to the article I linked the guys job is now not only to check if I can come into the country, it’s also to do his part in containing the infection by certain measures which clearly nobody is doing.

 

As for learning disinfectant in Thai - sure, I’ll do that if you willing teach it to the millions of potentially infected Chinese visitors coming here AND get them to ask for it.

21 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

There's nothing worse than the arrogant, know-it-all, so-called experienced traveler, long-time Thailand visitor or lurker who's totally aware of a possible pandemic and yet gets on an international flight to Thailand which is right next to the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak and is itself chock full of visiting and transient Chinese WITHOUT PACKING AND USING HIS OWN BLOODY HAND SANITIZING GEL.

 

Did the OP bother to buy and wear his own mask? Didn't mention it anywhere. Or is that only required if you're a snotty, grotty Asiatic sort?

Aaah you sure got me there buddy. Yep, I didn’t bring my own hand gel. That’s why I’ve got it all wrong and airport staff are actually doing their utmost best at stopping more potentially infected people from getting through. They’re all taking their job very VERY seriously. I’m a fool and all the precautions are actually being followed through by the airport staff. Oh and the PM really does have it all under control. 

 

Tell me, are you the type of guy who brings his own cutlery to a restaurant? Because let me tell you, there’s nothing worse than the arrogant, know it all, so called experienced eater, long time restaurant visitor or lurker who doesn’t PACK AND USE HIS OWN BLOODY CUTLERY. Or his own airbag/seatbelt when getting in a car. Or his own arrival form. Or the myriad number of things that should be commonplace in certain situations. 

 

No I did not have the forethought to bring my own gel. You know who else didn’t? Literally everybody in the airport at the time. It’s the job of staff in public places to appropriately prepare such items. You know, like in a HOSPITAL?

The following is my account of going through Swampy arrivals and my observations on the complete lack of preparation and careless attitude of airport staff despite the very real possibility of the coronavirus pandemic.

 

So my plane landed around midnight last night. I was able to reach the IO's desk around 1am (less than half of the desks staffed as always). 95% of the arriving passengers were all wearing high grade facemasks. Everybody is on board with how serious this virus situation is.

 

Everybody it seems except the staff at the biggest airport of the country which receives the most amount of Chinese visitors and has had the most cases of infections outside of China, the country whose PM assures us everything is 100% under control. Here are some of the things I saw:

 

Several adult and child passengers in the queue who were sneezing and snotty-nosed being passed through completely normally.

 

The same disgusting pens hanging by strings wrapped with layers of grotty scotch tape as always.

 

Only one IO was wearing gloves (a woman).

 

Open coffee mugs at the IO stations.

 

Staff with cheap 20 baht surgical masks on, gaps on all sides. Some pulled the masks down under their noses so they could potentially breathe in the virus better.

 

Staff checking passports and forms in the queue handling everything without gloves.

 

As I said it took me almost an hour to go through immigration. During this time I did not see a single attempt by any staff to clean any surface anywhere. I also saw several push-type bottles of hand sanitizer standing behind the biometrics machines. Not once did I see any staff urge or even suggest to someone that they should use it. In all I counted just one white guy who requested for the bottle and cleaned his hands after finger scanning. Just one.

 

Eventually I get to my IO and hand him my documents. I notice this particular desk does not have a bottle of hand sanitizer at all. He motions to the biometrics scanner to which I respond -

"Do you have disinfectant?"

*looks up, confused* - "What?"

"Disinfectant. For the machine or my hands." - I say, pointing at the scanner

*starts quickly looking through my passport, seemingly unsure if I'm talking about something document related thing before hurriedly motioning to the scanner again*

"No. Dis-In-Fec-Tant." I repeat again slowly, making a hand cleaning motion.

*obviously getting very frustrated with me now as hes grumbling and keeps pointing to the machine* - "What? Scan!"

"Sanitizer. Hand gel. Spray." - I keep trying my options as he obviously doesn't know what I'm talking about but I'm definitely not about to touch this gross machine that probably hasn't been cleaned since morning.

Eventually I side-step the window to lean in close and say to him "You know, for the VIRUS"

Finally he reaches down somewhere and pulls out a bottle of hand sanitizer so i can finally scan my fingers.

 

As I walked past I couldn't help but feel a shudder over how pathetic the entire situation was. I've seen a lot of stupid things here. But seriously, in a place like this, at a critical time like this, not knowing what the hell is a disinfectant/sanitizer/hand gel/spray and getting ****ed off that a visitor would ask for one?

 

Walking further past the baggage belts I had expected there to be some stands with more push bottles, a spray, or at least something for people to occasionally clean their hands. Didn't see a single one. I picked up my bag and walked towards the exit. Surely there would be some alcohol spray just before exiting. Nada. Nothing. I had to walk around inside until I got to a currency exchange place that had one hand gel thing on their counter.

 

Earlier on Monday The Nation published this article: 

Immigration Police join efforts at airports to prevent spread of Wuhan virus (https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1145304-immigration-police-join-efforts-at-airports-to-prevent-spread-of-wuhan-virus/)

 

In it we were told about the following measures that Immigration claimed they would enforce:

 

➤ Enforce an hourly cleanup of passenger screening areas, including the passport checking booths, form filling counters, as well as equipments that have direct contact with passengers, with disinfectant and alcohol spray.

 

➤ All immigration police and airport staff must wear masks and gloves while working or communicating with passengers.

 

➤ Disinfectant dispensers will be provided at passport checking booths and passengers will be encouraged to clean their hands before entering the booths.

 

➤ Passengers’ behaviour will be closely monitored and those who display flu symptoms, such as frequent sneezing and coughing, will be separated from the public. The Department of Disease Control staff will be asked to check their condition.

 

➤ Managers and commanders must monitor their subordinates’ condition and alert medical staff immediately if they display abnormality.

 

Unless the last point (abnormality displayed in subordinates) refers to bouts of retardation and apathy exceeding normal levels, then from my experience every one of these is just a straight up lie. Nobody cleaned anything. One person had gloves. Masks were useless and uselessly worn. Nobody was encouraged to clean their hands. Sneezy snotty sick people were in the queue with everybody.

 

In short, there's not a chance in hell they are going to contain this thing. I advise everyone to plan accordingly.

 

 

And not one single mention of doing the ONE thing that matters most - fining the selfish asses who start the fires. If they took just a fraction of all the money that is being wasted on this stupid AirCMI app/system development and QR codes for visitors (which NOBODY will use) and instead put it towards monitoring real-time fire map data and mobilizing local law enforcement to act against arsonists, that would already make a huge improvement. Instead we have a worse than useless government parading around in fancy suits looking smug. I guess when your party is put in power by sham elections it's against your best interests to further **** off the populace by enforcing laws that prioritize public health over braindead pyromania? Better not rock the boat just in case and let people choke while looking like you're doing something. Pathetic.

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how many are stuck here with no way out

 

The mistake I made 5 years ago was to a) burn my bridges and relocate here 100%, and b) invest all my money into starting a business here all without doing any due diligence, research or anything. I didn't even know ThaiVisa was a thing at the time. 

 

Pretty quickly I found this place was a hole and not particularly pleasant to be in. Nobody else's fault but mine, I should have been more thoughtful. At the time my marriage was going to **** and I just needed a new start and wasn't thinking clearly.

 

Now all my money is tied up in a business here which isn't doing that great. Eventually it will start pulling in profits after some years but not sure I can stick around till then. In a way I don't particularly feel like I'm "stuck" here. Every day I make the decision whether I want to continue towards trying to make a return on my investments or just saying "**** it" and taking off to a place where I actually enjoy living. Every now and then I come on this forum to vent my frustrations with the place, frustrations which some members sympathize with and others are kind enough to tolerate. Eventually I know I will leave, hopefully with a bit more common sense to choose my next country of residence carefully.

 

I'm in my 30s, not married, no kids or commitments and no need for the fancy things of life. I could take off tomorrow, cut my losses short, move to another nearby country and teach English or something. I do truly feel sorry for the guys stuck here with no way out, those who hate it yet have commitments or responsibilities or poor finances. It must be hell.