Hanaguma

Have you really read my posts though? If so, you would have read; "There was criminal behavior by a minority of those entrusted with caring for the children. Those people need to be named, shamed, and prosecuted. " or "Yes there was abuse at the schools, which is despicable. Unfortunately, we now know that the priesthood as a profession attracts both the best and the worst of men. In those cases, the victims need to be compensated and the criminals punished/shamed. " or "Nobody denies that there were abuses, and that people 100 years ago didn't understand how psychologically damaging it could be to remove children from their communities and put them in schools like this."

Typical Trudeau, can't miss an opportunity to pander and virture signal. This has been going on for 30 years now, getting more and more hysterical as time goes on. It never fails. "There is much more that needs to be done" or "this is only the first step towards..." are the catchphrases of the perpetually victimized. But it was easily predictable. The rent seekers in the indigenous industry are reluctant to let their cash cow get away. There are hundreds of millions of dollars in play for the lawyers and consultants and media people. The Canadian government has already pledged $40 Billion (with a "B")- what more do they want?

Because nothing has been done yet. And the native band in question has been very coy and secretive about the whole situation for more than a year. THere has been nothing stopping them from starting to investigate except their own reluctance. The cynic in me says that they have made the political decision that the legend of 200 plus missing children is far more profitable than taking a chance on learning the truth. What if nothing is found? That is a risk they are very unwilling to take. Imagine the same situation but not involving native people. Someone suspects that a local park is the site of more than 200 possible murder victims. A radar survey suggests that there just might be something there. What would happen next? Certainly not a one year delay.

True, but the report will only be based on the radar survey. Nothing will be actually done in the suspected burieal sites other than that. And the article clearly states that the survey cannot detect organic matter, so (sorry to be graphic) unless a body was buried recently, it is almost impossible to detect. At least without doing some excavation of the site, which the local native community has resisted up to now.

Yes they have, but those are not what is in the news today. Those seem to be almost accidental incidents. In the past year, there have been numerous discoveries. None of them, to my knowledge, have undergone any kind of forensic examination. All rely on radar data plus local anecdotes. Like Pegman, I am from the Great White North. I do watch the media from home and there haven't been any stories about actual evidence being collected.

This is one of the few advantages of being Canadian. Lottery winnings are not taxed. Neither are inheritances. Neither are casino winnings.

It has been more than a year since the 'discovery' and not one shovel full of earth has been moved. Nobody knows if they are graves. Nobody knows who (if anyone) is buried there. Certainly nobody knows that children are buried there. If, God forbid, the story is true, then there needs to be a criminal investigation. No more faffing about with "knowledge keepers" and lurid tales. And certainly no waiting a year. Just imagine if it was suspected that more than 200 people were secretly buried under the football field of a regular high school. Do you think the police would sit on their hands for a year and do nothing?

CNN is wrong. The radar found anomalies in the ground. They could be anything. The radar isnt sensitive enough to do anything other than that. If you read the story they cover their asses by saying "potential graves", then go on to say that many were actually discovered in a known community cemetery. Hardly surprising. You can find cemeteries all over Canada where the markers have deteriorated, fallen, were destroyed by wind and rain, etc. Again, a community cemetery. Not a secret burial site at a school. The story goes on to incorrectly say that they confirmed that the remains of 215 children were found at another site in Kamloops British Columbia. Utter horse hockey. No graves were found, no remains were exhumed, the story is being pushed to further the victimisation narrative of the native people. There has never been any serious investigation done. Here is an article on the subject; https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/kamloops-mass-grave-debunked-biggest-fake-news-in-canada/ The insinuation is that the staff of the schools secretly murdered children, or abused them to death. Then the evil nuns and fathers secretly buried their victims just feet from their schools, in unmarked graves. All pure fantasy. Nobody denies that there were abuses, and that people 100 years ago didn't understand how psychologically damaging it could be to remove children from their communities and put them in schools like this. But all too often the message is one of deliberate harm, when it was actually ignorance and well intentioned negligence.

And the lawyers will get rich. This has been happening for 30 years in Canada. The commissions, discussions, working groups, effectively drain away huge amounts of money. And native communities that actually need support don't get it. There is an entire industry built on servicing this grievance mongering, and it is horrid. The so-called "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" was interested in neither. It was instead a cathartic process that encouraged emotion and drama at the expense of evidence and statistic.

Yes there was abuse at the schools, which is despicable. Unfortunately, we now know that the priesthood as a profession attracts both the best and the worst of men. In those cases, the victims need to be compensated and the criminals punished/shamed. The schools themselves were poorly funded, especially in the beginning, and the federal government contracted the Church to run them as the government didnt have the necessary capacity to do so. Churches already existed across the country (both Catholic and Anglican) so they were the natural choice for the program. As an aside, both my wife and my son attended Catholic schools and the staff were exemplary. We aren't Catholic ourselves but the schools had well earned reputations for quality education. The "unmarked graves" have not yet been proven to exist. A few unmarked cemeteries have been found around some schools, but they were known in the communities for generations. Problem was they fell into disuse and disrepair. They were community cemeteries where all were buried, not secret places where evil school staff hid their victims. Other places have had ground penetrating radar passed through, but no evidence of anything has been found. And curiously the local native communities don't seem to be in any hurry to conduct forensic investigations. Your image of roving bands of priests ripping screaming children from wailing mothers is not accurate. Given the small number of priests and the vastness of the Canadian north, it just isn't realistic. It is a great image for publicity purposes, but that is all. Maybe a few cases but certainly not the norm.

At the original Kamloops site, the answer is no. There are "consultations" with "elders" and "keepers of knowledge" in the community, but no actual forensic action. Unfortunately but as I suspect you know, unsurprisingly, the media ran with the story and embellished it without waiting for evidence.

Don't need to "try again". At the time, that was considered best practice for education. Same thing happened to the thousands of immigrant kids in Canada. They weren't allowed to speak their native tongues in school and were forced to learn Canadian values. Of course, today we know better. Plus, there is no evidence that they were all forced. Many attended voluntarily, many were 'forced' by their parents and families, etc. At this time, school attendence was made compulsory for ALL children in Canada, ot just natives. The image of evil priests ripping crying children from their parents' arms seems to be a fantasy. To the extent that children were forced into school attendance, there were often extenuating circumstances.

The stats are divided between "born outside the US" and "undocumented". https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/immigration-and-agriculture/#:~:text=As recently as 2019%2C almost,(27.3 percent) were undocumented.

I have no trouble punishing the employers. Also punishing the illegals. Only makes sense.

According to this article, about 12% of overall farm costs are due to labour costs. This rises to nearly 40% for tree fruits and nuts (they are the highest). https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/#:~:text=According to data from the 2017 Census of Agriculture%2C wages,fruit and tree nut operations. Now, assuming that illegals make up 40% of all farm labour, such as in California, we can do a bit of math. Let's assume that illegal workers make only half of what legal workers do. If they are replaced with legal workers, cost will rise by: Illegal workers make up 40% of the 40% labor cost. So 16%. Now, if double that to hire people, that would be a 16% increase in total cost. And that is for the most labor intensive crops (apples, nuts, etc). Cost of food rises by 16% for the end consumer. On a regular farm wiere labor is 12% of total cost, it would mean an increase of ... OK, assume 40% of workers areillegal, that means 4.8% of the cost is illegal labor. So again, the cost of farm goods would rise by about 5%. Not much to pay in order for legal residents to work, and to help Americans.

Well, there was a $40 billion settlement by the Canadian government.... is that massive enough?

The peak of the system was the 1920-30s. By the fifties, the schools were being closed down. There was enough infrastructure in place for native kids to go to local/provincially run schools. People also began to realize that assimilation policy for education in general was a bad idea and more modern ideas began to take root. By the fifties, many residential schools were either day schools, or residential but the students could go home on weekends. Before that, the geography of Canada dictated a lot of what happened.

Here is something for you to ponder: "Prior to the 1950s, death rates among children in IRS schools were appallingly high — far higher than for non-aboriginal school children. By today’s standards, many IRS schools were poorly constructed, poorly ventilated, and seriously overcrowded with children who were living on an inadequate diet. But were the churches primarily responsible for these serious shortcomings? Not at all. https://theinterim.com/columnist/rory-leishman/the-truth-about-residential-schools/

Best estimates say up to $20 billion for the wall. In other words, about half of what Biden is pissing away to the Ukraine. There don't need to be guards every 10 feet. Minefields, armed drones and natural barriers will do. Back it up with immediate removal from the country, plus automatic ineligibility to ever enter again, and you have a good plan.

I didn't say that all the deaths were due to disease and illness. But the article failed to mention it, instead attempting to paint the picture of malicious and neglectful staff . Perhaps they consider mortality due to disease to be neglect, but at the time it was very common in Canada. My grandmother lost 2 siblings to Spanish Flu and TB, it happened all the time.

Yes, as I said, in certain circumstances. In others, no.

I believe that Malaysia Airlines offers fully refundable tickets as well if you don't book the bog cheap fare. As long as you cancel before the flight day, you should be able to get your full ticket price refunded. But check with them to be sure. A one way from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur should do the trick.

At the time, yes. Although how many were forcibly taken, how many were taken at the request of the parents, and how many were taken as a result of parental neglect/abuse can be debated. They weren't all kidnapped in the dead of night by evil priests, in spite of what the media wants us to believe. Native communities in Canada were scattered and tiny. There was no practical way to school the kids in their own home towns/villages/encampments. So residential schools were set up as places to gather the kids in one place and educate them. Not a great choice, but the only other option was no schooling whatsoever. Again, this was done as a result of treaty obligations requested by native leaders. It was not a unilateral decision on the part of the Church or government.

Good on the Pope for showing such patience, especially after receiving a delegation of indigenous leaders at the Vatican such a short time ago. Now, the article from CNN contains several mistakes. Yes, tragically thousands of children died in the residential schools. Most from diseases common to the times- tuberculosis, influenza, etc. As did thousands of non-native children. It was sadly common at the time. Conditions in residential schools made such outbreaks worse though. Dormitory living made any sickness spread easily. Also, "hundreds of unmarked graves" were discovered, but the implication that these were secret graves of murdered children is unproven and preposterous. At some sites, they are simply local cemeteries that fell into disrepair and neglect. There is no evidence of any children being killed and secretly buried anywhere. It was an obligation of the Federal Government to educate native children. It was put into treaties with indigenous groups at the insistence of those groups, because they wanted their children to have better futures. The government didnt do this on their own, out of evil or malign intent. There was no genocidal intent. The intent was assimilation. As it was with all the immigrants to Canada who came in the same time period. Today we know better, but at that time it was considered best educational practice. There was criminal behavior by a minority of those entrusted with caring for the children. Those people need to be named, shamed, and prosecuted. The pope already apologized in the Vatican, now he is being magnanimous and doing so again in Canada. I applaud him for that.

Bruce, I think we can agree on that. Both parties use the issue to play to their base- the GOP to the Chamber of Commerce, the Democrats to the Woke Left. So- punishment to those who hire illegals is a great idea. Problem is that the US doesnt have a decent ID system to help them differentiate between legal and illegal residents. Illegals can get SS numbers (often forged or illegally obtained), drivers licences, etc. It is hard to verify, and quite often employers look the other way. Also, close the border. Anyone who does not come across at an official crossing is immediately and permanently ineligible to enter the US. Process visas and asylum claims at consulates and embassies in foreign countries, not in the US. Once things are stabilized and there arent 100,000 plus people crossing every month, work on establishing visa and guest worker programs tailored to specific sectors of the economy. Sound good?